Mirror Ships with Point Defense ignore shields?

mcscarypants · February 2016

Maybe I'm just now notcing this because I've been playing the Terran PvE queues with my more fragile B'rel of late, but just today I saw that I took 15K hull damage from Terok Nor Point Defense System, and yet my shields were still up and taking no damage.

Is Point Defense System supposed to ignore shields? Or is this a problem that has been noted before?

seriousdave · February 2016

You sure your shields were actually up? Maybe you're also a victim of that bug.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1211845/shields-displaying-wrongly

mcscarypants · February 2016

seriousdave wrote: »

You sure your shields were actually up? Maybe you're also a victim of that bug.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1211845/shields-displaying-wrongly

Well bork me sideways. I was unaware of this issue, and yet somehow, am in no way surprised by it.

Thanks for the heads up.

ajalen · February 2016

or u just be vaporized from terran NPC , nothing unusual .....at normal can hit with torp spread or point defense torps for 100k + , even my Vo'Qov with 70 k hull and 18k shield dont survive .....

warmaker001b · February 2016

The Point Defense Consoles had always been nasty. Even in PVP, you used that on someone that was closeby and they got shredded. The consoles had just been forgotten about, never gained traction in PVE. Happy to see it being used against players in PVE.

questerius · February 2016

warmaker001b wrote: »

The Point Defense Consoles had always been nasty. Even in PVP, you used that on someone that was closeby and they got shredded. The consoles had just been forgotten about, never gained traction in PVE. Happy to see it being used against players in PVE.

It continues to baffle me that the Point Defense Console is often underestimated. especially with the newer phaser focussed sets it is well worth a slot.

samt1996 · February 2016

Hehe you should see the Defiant console...

But yes playing against advanced/elite terrans is a nightmare, might as well just remove your shields.

questerius · February 2016

samt1996 wrote: »

Hehe you should see the Defiant console...

But yes playing against advanced/elite terrans is a nightmare, might as well just remove your shields.

People should try scramble sensors on those groups of Terran ships once in a while.:p
Cannot say if it works on elite, but it is mighty effective on advanced.

But aside from quick skirmishes in the beginning and in the end, fighting the terran forces in counterpoint is the wrong tactic.
It's all about picking up and depositing boarding parties.

samt1996 · February 2016

Well to be fair the last time I flew the mission was in a Baltim which ain't exactly a tank... but even in the badlands those escorts are rediculous. May have to break out an ancient tank build I haven't used in years, the new mechanic may make it more effective at aggroing.

warmaker001b · February 2016

questerius wrote: »

samt1996 wrote: »

Hehe you should see the Defiant console...

But yes playing against advanced/elite terrans is a nightmare, might as well just remove your shields.

People should try scramble sensors on those groups of Terran ships once in a while.:p
Cannot say if it works on elite, but it is mighty effective on advanced.

But aside from quick skirmishes in the beginning and in the end, fighting the terran forces in counterpoint is the wrong tactic.
It's all about picking up and depositing boarding parties.

Yeah. I've had some Pilot Ships configured for speed attack runs. Not necessarily built specifically for CPA but any fast flying ship can run very quick shuttle runs between DS9 and Terok Nor for a lot of boarding party beam overs. I've done these with Atelehs, Breen Dreads, and various Escorts and Cruisers. The best I've ever done with a PUG that didn't lift a finger to help was 32 and that was on a Pilot Ship.

And Iconian Shields help tremendously on that part of the instance.

jade1280 · February 2016

Recently brought the ship just for the point defense console best choice ever.

ajalen · February 2016

objectives ? in Counterpoint ? ( normal / advanced - i m too weak for elite )
99% is about circle aroud DS9 and BFAW things , i resign for closing portals /transfering board parties looong time ago too .....

but yestarday i got pug group which in their brilliant mind decide close some portals ......result : instead one failed objective ( close some portals ) we have two failed objective .... portals and we dont keep DS9 over 75 % .....

but thanks for advice , i try Scramble Sensors ....... no problem for me now , i now fly ( sometimes , depends on mood ) in new Krenim magic wand , i love occasional fun trips with space magic ......

duncanidaho11 · February 2016

Well, the short answer to this is that the DPS from the point defense console on TE escorts appears to be set too high from just about every other NPC ability (if you don't think this is a problem, ask yourself how, even according to the game's own rules, you can justify a single small turret having more firepower than the sum total of all other [analogous] weapons that ship has, including DHC's/DC's). Maybe cryptic will eventually take a look at it but at this point it's perhaps more likely that we'll have to learn to live with it (if we haven't already.)

warmaker001b · February 2016

ajalen wrote: »

objectives ? in Counterpoint ? ( normal / advanced - i m too weak for elite )
99% is about circle aroud DS9 and BFAW things , i resign for closing portals /transfering board parties looong time ago too .....

but yestarday i got pug group which in their brilliant mind decide close some portals ......result : instead one failed objective ( close some portals ) we have two failed objective .... portals and we dont keep DS9 over 75 % .....

but thanks for advice , i try Scramble Sensors ....... no problem for me now , i now fly ( sometimes , depends on mood ) in new Krenim magic wand , i love occasional fun trips with space magic ......

Most of the PUGs in CPA are 100% horrible. Many times I have been the only one to do this routine for the group:

1. Close 8-12 portals
2. Transport on the average 16-22 boarding parties. Personal best is 32.
3. Contribute to the destruction of Terran Empire ships at both ends of the shuttle runs as well as wearing down Terok Nor.

And when I chase these objectives alone, all too many times the rest of my team is sitting over at DS9 getting absolutely owned by the Terran Empire and their combined efforts still net in DS9's hull dropping. I can do many things to help carry the team but I can't personally do EVERYTHING. Many people log into Advanced queues that have no business being there.

If at least one other person helped on the objectives, we'd get a much higher marks reward, but again, the chances of someone else in a PUG knowing what to do with objectives is slim.

I do NOT want to complete an Advanced instance netting barely 100 marks. Camping DS9 alone is a good way to do that.

trejgon · February 2016

well, me and my friend also have noticed that from time to time some of Terran ships (sometimes terok nor sometimes different things) pulls off atack that takes you down from full shields full hull in one attack to dead - we always is surprised how it could happen as he has quite a tanky build with some good resistance ratings.

Ironically enought I've noticed that It ceased to occur to me since I'm flying a krenim science vessel and overally does not move if I don't have to - so basically by most fights I stay in place tapping skills, grav welling stuff, and firing some torpedo spreads and stuff - and since I use that tactics if I die I see shields dropping first

and the only "nuke' I got since then was when a terran escort fired its point defense on in in literal point blanc - but then the amounts of hits I got from that was justyfiable for the dps received.

can it be that Terok Nor/mirror escorts point defences and all mirror ships torpedoes have something that scale of your own throttle levels?

hanover2 · February 2016

questerius wrote: »

warmaker001b wrote: »

The Point Defense Consoles had always been nasty. Even in PVP, you used that on someone that was closeby and they got shredded. The consoles had just been forgotten about, never gained traction in PVE. Happy to see it being used against players in PVE.

It continues to baffle me that the Point Defense Console is often underestimated. especially with the newer phaser focussed sets it is well worth a slot.

It's standard equipment on all of my shuttle builds, my favorite of which is a Peregrine with the 8472 counter command ordinance 3-piece. Heavy turret + baked-in CRF, leaving one TAC skill for the bio torp. I don't even care if it's effective. It amuses me.

warmaker001b · February 2016

trejgon wrote: »

well, me and my friend also have noticed that from time to time some of Terran ships (sometimes terok nor sometimes different things) pulls off atack that takes you down from full shields full hull in one attack to dead - we always is surprised how it could happen as he has quite a tanky build with some good resistance ratings.

Ironically enought I've noticed that It ceased to occur to me since I'm flying a krenim science vessel and overally does not move if I don't have to - so basically by most fights I stay in place tapping skills, grav welling stuff, and firing some torpedo spreads and stuff - and since I use that tactics if I die I see shields dropping first

and the only "nuke' I got since then was when a terran escort fired its point defense on in in literal point blanc - but then the amounts of hits I got from that was justyfiable for the dps received.

can it be that Terok Nor/mirror escorts point defences and all mirror ships torpedoes have something that scale of your own throttle levels?

No. The Terran Empire NPCs were revamped not too long ago. These NPCs alongside the Herald ones are the only ones in the game that do the minimal variety of attacks.

Herald NPCs are very fond of Subnucleonic Carrier Wave, Viral Matrix, Transphasic Torp Spreads, Ramming attacks, etc. Like the Terran Empire, the Cruiser and larger ships can be fond of BFAW.

Terran Empire NPCs have Phaser Point Defense (Escorts), Photon Torpedo Point Defense (Akira-derivatives). The Vestas use the console abilities of the player ship. Command Cruisers use TBR (shield bypass), as well as other things. The Cruisers are quite fond of BFAW.

Also, a build that does CC with something like Grav Well with AOE attacks is a big aggro magnet. If your build constitutes you being a stationary turret, that means you have Zero or Negative Bonus Defense. That means practically every shot is going to hit you compared to you constantly moving. Combine negative or zero Bonus Defense with getting the aggro of everything, you're likely not going to last long on Advanced+.

mcscarypants · February 2016

Another problem I'm having with Terran forces is just how many of them have the PDS. It's not just the escorts, the generic cruisers have it as well. As does Terok Nor itself. And considering that the range of the stations PDS is the same as the range to beam down boarding parties, you're going to get hit by it. And on advanced, that thing was doing 1200 ~ 1400 dmg to shields per shot (minimum), with a heavy bleedthrough.
When Terok Nor has a escort or cruiser (or worse both) nearby as well, it's a nigh impossible gauntlet of PDS to run.

questerius · February 2016

Just wondering, has anyone tested kinetic magnet as a power in that mission? Since the terrans love their torpedoes..

questerius · February 2016

Nobody?

warmaker001b · February 2016

questerius wrote: »

Nobody?

Ha, I gave up on kinetic magnet long ago because the damage threshold for it to deactivate was so low.

samt1996 · February 2016

Much like jam sensors it's kind of pointless.

trejgon · February 2016

warmaker001b wrote: »

trejgon wrote: »

well, me and my friend also have noticed that from time to time some of Terran ships (sometimes terok nor sometimes different things) pulls off atack that takes you down from full shields full hull in one attack to dead - we always is surprised how it could happen as he has quite a tanky build with some good resistance ratings.

Ironically enought I've noticed that It ceased to occur to me since I'm flying a krenim science vessel and overally does not move if I don't have to - so basically by most fights I stay in place tapping skills, grav welling stuff, and firing some torpedo spreads and stuff - and since I use that tactics if I die I see shields dropping first

and the only "nuke' I got since then was when a terran escort fired its point defense on in in literal point blanc - but then the amounts of hits I got from that was justyfiable for the dps received.

can it be that Terok Nor/mirror escorts point defences and all mirror ships torpedoes have something that scale of your own throttle levels?

No. The Terran Empire NPCs were revamped not too long ago. These NPCs alongside the Herald ones are the only ones in the game that do the minimal variety of attacks.

Herald NPCs are very fond of Subnucleonic Carrier Wave, Viral Matrix, Transphasic Torp Spreads, Ramming attacks, etc. Like the Terran Empire, the Cruiser and larger ships can be fond of BFAW.

Terran Empire NPCs have Phaser Point Defense (Escorts), Photon Torpedo Point Defense (Akira-derivatives). The Vestas use the console abilities of the player ship. Command Cruisers use TBR (shield bypass), as well as other things. The Cruisers are quite fond of BFAW.

Also, a build that does CC with something like Grav Well with AOE attacks is a big aggro magnet. If your build constitutes you being a stationary turret, that means you have Zero or Negative Bonus Defense. That means practically every shot is going to hit you compared to you constantly moving. Combine negative or zero Bonus Defense with getting the aggro of everything, you're likely not going to last long on Advanced+.

except I have 30% def when stationary ,adn except the practive have proven it working on advanced
the only cases I died with that playstyle was Akira torpedo point defence in point blanc.

Thats where that question originates - from my own perspective ironically enought I die alot more often at full throttle than when stationary.....

[when at full throtle I get ohko'ed by some wild torpedo spreads and when stationary I shrug them off like they were not there....]

PS. and I know that theorycrafting goes straightly against such a playstyle even working but actuall practice shows otherwise, and thats where I've got idea that maybe some weird mechanics added to those attacks could be involved

Mirror Ships with Point Defense ignore shields?

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