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Skill Revamp: Free Respecs + Loadout slots
alexraptorr
Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
All right let me begin by highlighting this from the new blog about the Skill System.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9797693-star-trek-online:-skill-system-revamp
Lets ponder this for a moment shall we? Its not just that the skill tree is very complicated at present, but also that respecs are prohibitively expensive that makes most people completely unwilling to leave their comfort zone once they have found something that works, because experimenting and switching around between different builds is just too costly.
A grand solution which would be a win-win for everyone would be to take a page from the Trait System Revamp, and get rid of respec tokens entirely, allowing captains to reset and and re-assign their points completely at will.
This would allow players to fully explore what their characters are capable of and make them more willing to try out different builds and ships with their characters.
And when you no longer have that Damocles Sword of respec costs hanging over your head, trying new and different kinds of ships on a character immediately becomes more interesting, rather than perhaps sticking to only "buying" and flying science ships and completely ignoring the offering of escorts and cruisers, etc.
Now as great as it sounds, rebuilding your characters skill selection every time you switch between a ship type would be kind of a drag and not very fun, right? I mean what an incredible waste of your time and perhaps even your friends who are waiting for you to be finished?
Thats why we take a page out of the Loadout playbook and give all players one or two free Skill Spec slots, with the option to buy more from the cash shop, giving players the option to save down their builds and switch between entirely different builds in an instant.
I defnitely urge you to consider this suggestion, as it is something that would only further enhance the gameplay experience for everyone involved.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9797693-star-trek-online:-skill-system-revamp
With these new options spread across all Engineering, Science and Tactical sections of the Space Skill Tree, we anticipate players feeling many compelling reasons to step outside of their usual comfort zone and perhaps even exploring new ways of progressing their captain and starship.
Lets ponder this for a moment shall we? Its not just that the skill tree is very complicated at present, but also that respecs are prohibitively expensive that makes most people completely unwilling to leave their comfort zone once they have found something that works, because experimenting and switching around between different builds is just too costly.
A grand solution which would be a win-win for everyone would be to take a page from the Trait System Revamp, and get rid of respec tokens entirely, allowing captains to reset and and re-assign their points completely at will.
This would allow players to fully explore what their characters are capable of and make them more willing to try out different builds and ships with their characters.
And when you no longer have that Damocles Sword of respec costs hanging over your head, trying new and different kinds of ships on a character immediately becomes more interesting, rather than perhaps sticking to only "buying" and flying science ships and completely ignoring the offering of escorts and cruisers, etc.
Now as great as it sounds, rebuilding your characters skill selection every time you switch between a ship type would be kind of a drag and not very fun, right? I mean what an incredible waste of your time and perhaps even your friends who are waiting for you to be finished?
Thats why we take a page out of the Loadout playbook and give all players one or two free Skill Spec slots, with the option to buy more from the cash shop, giving players the option to save down their builds and switch between entirely different builds in an instant.
I defnitely urge you to consider this suggestion, as it is something that would only further enhance the gameplay experience for everyone involved.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
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U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Currently, gold players (whether or not they're lifers) receive 1 respec token per rank. This means by the time they reach 60, they have 7 respec tokens. Lifers and those subscribing to the game for a long period of time gain 5 additional tokens for a total of 12 tokens. Do you really want to take away this benefit from them?
Besides, value could easily be sorted by giving silver players One free spec slot while giving gold members two or three free slots.
And I really think you ought to read through a post properly befor replying, as I already covered the matter of "revenue"
Having a loadout feature to swap skill builds would be great as well. Other games I've played such as Rift have that function and it really works. I can set up my tac skills and then swap to it when I jump into my tac ships. Set up my sci skills and then swap when I jump in my sci ships. Personally I feel that multiple skill loadouts is a must have feature. I feel that any skill revamp is incomplete without it.
Mine Trap Supporter
Agreed.
If they wish to allow players to experience the diversity of the new skill trees then they need to allow players to diversify without the need for a 5 dollar pay wall per time. This method they currently have on Tribble SCREAMS "Pay Me or Reroll a new Character."
Either allow a token in the C-Store that allows a player to change their spec every 24 hours via a 1 time purchase of say 2k Zen(Free for lifetime or Current Subscribers) or allow multiple specs via a single C-Store purchase.
As it is on Holodeck, players Google the current best specs, set in at max level and leave it alone and only play the current ships/loadouts that are within that comfort zone.
Personally, I subscribe while playing a new character and when I hit max level, I respec once, maybe twice so the character is set up the way I like it, then forget that I have respec tokens. The usually unsubscribe shortly after for a while.
I refuse to pay 5 dollars each time I want to try out something new and will stay within my 'Generalistic builds' restraints.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I'd make it like this:
-8k dil per respec
-No limit on how many respecs one can do per day
-1 or 2 free loadout slots for F2P, 3-4 for subs
-More loadout slots for sale in C-store
Numbers are just for example and can be changed by Cryptic to whatever they think is fair, but I feel like that would be a good compromise between totally free and having to pay for every respec.
Mine Trap Supporter
I would suggest you take your time reading and carefully select your skills you will be alright.
However I skill loadout is not a bad idea, as many people like to do many different things. But this would need to be capped out at having 2 not more
I don't think you get it, sorry. It doesn't matter how clear and concise it is. It all depends on how Cryptic is intending for you to specialize and are enticing people to try new things outside of their comfort zone. (They even said so) When you decide that you would like to specialize in Exotic Damage, and then later decide that instead a laser Tank would be best, you have the option of doing that.
With the way the system is now and how the new system is, once you make the Exotic Damage build, you are stuck with that, forever, unless you pay 5 dollars. It doesn't matter how well you understand the abilities. I don't know about you, but I've quit games over this kind of stuff.
With this line of thinking, the new skill revamp will be exactly like the old one, just with different methods of achieving the same goals and then staying within your comfort zone. Make one character, spec it the way you like, then keep it that way forever. Don't try new things on that character and don't make a mistake outside of the googled skill planner or you just wasted that character.
Charging a large fee (and 5 dollars IS a large fee for something as small as a single respec) for character respecs is driving cookie cutter builds just as much as the meta. I'm not sure about you, but to me, Meta and Cookie Cutter = Stale game play.
Can people please actually properly read the original post before replying?
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with learning the system or understanding it. This has to do with being able to "purchase" an effectively fly multiple ships and use multiple builds on a single character, To dare to try new things and change things up and experiment in ways that has not been possible since the game went F2P.
It's not about understanding what the skills do. That will only be a small issue that will work itself out when the system first goes live and the playerbase at large gets their hands on it. What we're talking about here is build diversity and giving player the ability to "step outside of their usual comfort zone and perhaps even exploring new ways of progressing their captain and starship" as stated in Cryptic's own words. As it is right now, having to shell out every single time we want to change our skill builds severely hampers that goal.
The new system actually makes this worse in some ways. For example, after spending most of last night checking out the system I noticed that some of the new skills involve buffing carrier pets. This is really cool and I like that. I have many ships, such as the Command Cruisers, that have hangars that could definitely benefit from those. But what happens if I then want to fly one of my ships that doesn't have a hangar for a while? Those skills are now completely useless. I have a choice between leaving them where they are and getting no benefit or shelling out for a respec. Terrible choice on both sides there. Being able to fly multiple ships on a single character is a major feature of the game and the skill system doesn't support that.
Furthermore, many of the ships in this game are very flexible and can support a myriad of different builds on them. For example, the Paradox that I got not too long ago. It can be a drain tank, an exotic damage monster, or even a BFAW boat if I want. Each one of those requires different skills to get the most out of those builds. Having to pay for a respec every time I want to change the playstyle on a single ship is ridiculous.
This also goes against the whole premise of the equipment loadout system. They give us an entire system that revolves around having multiple equipment builds for a single ship but then want us to pay when we want to change our skills to suit those equipment builds? It doesn't work.
As it stands right now, all I'm going to do is find the closest spec to the one I have on live and leave it there. I'll set my skills to a more general build to support all ship types and then promptly forget the system is there. That's no different from how I have it right now on Holodeck. "Set it and forget it" is my current approach to both the old and new system.
This is something I see from many others in the various threads about the skill revamp. One of the more popular questions from people is "will my current build be safe?" People are more worried about whether or not they can keep the same old thing they've had rather than branching out and trying to "step outside of their usual comfort zone and perhaps even exploring new ways of progressing their captain and starship" as Cryptic is trying to encourage.
But if they were to dump the real money cost involved I bet we would see build diversity flourish along side more use of the equipment loadout system. Being able to change not only our gear but also our skills on the fly and try out new things with no monetary cost will let us all Boldy Go where no build has gone before.
Mine Trap Supporter
Right now whenver a new ship is released I am forced to ask myself "will I be able to fly this ship properly with my current skill spec?".
Very often the answer is "No" and so I pass on buying said new ship, which not only means less enjoyment for me but missed revenue for Cryptic/PWE.
the new system is just like this current system. You can put a little in everything to fit many different builds in the new system as you would do now
I often do the same. The one I find myself running into more is when a new ship releases and it supports the current build I have, I pass on it because all I'm doing then is just transplanting the same build from ship to ship. The end result is that ships become just cosmetic options rather than a chance to explore a new playstyle.
"The new system is just like this current system"
Uh...don't you think that completely goes against the entire concept of revamping the skill system in the first place? Why bother revamping anything if it's just going to be the same lol.
Mine Trap Supporter
As for infinitely free Re-Specs...I'm on the fence here. If Cryptic went that way, I'd like something in the Lifetime/Subscriber Bonuses to make up for the lost value of, what did someone say, 12 free Re-Specs as it is? At the same time, as you've said Alex, having to use what effectively amounts to a finite resource (your free Re-Specs) *or* cash/Dilithium to re-roll your character is a bit of a daunting option for any kind of changes, whether minor or a complete overhaul.
Ironically, I think the Loadouts would solve the Re-Specs. Why? Because if I buy 2 Loadouts, I can set one as my primary and experiment with the other. I can better compare one setup, parse it through various runs, load the experimental setup, parse it through the same types of runs, and do a better side-by-side analysis.
Because of that, here's my suggestion:
1) Get rid of C-Store Re-Specs.
AND
2) Allow the Skill Tree system to have a Loadout-type system. Allow me to save different Skill Tree setups and switch to them back and forth.
THEN DO:
3) Since Re-Specs are gone, replace them with Skill Tree Loadout Slots for Gold Subscribers/Lifetimers. It doesn't have to be on a 1-to-1 replacement. I don't' need 12 Skill Tree Loadout Slots personally. ha ha! But maybe half of that? 6 per character? Even just 4?
4) Sell Skill Tree Loadout Slots like you now do extra Ship Loadout Slots.
These are quick impressions and not final thoughts. What do you think, Alex? Do you think Loadouts would essentially make Re-Specs obsolete? Or do you feel we'd still need both Skill Tree Loadouts and Free Re-Specs?
Also, I'm skimming and typing fairly quickly, so if someone else has said all this, then just add mine as a 2nd voice to that opinion.
I think you missed the point as to why there is a revamp. They wanted to make the system better in terms of understanding and simply, while adding better balance.
Let me explain what I said. In the current system most people put 6 clicks to get 84 points in a skill, while only maxing a hand full of certain skills.
In the new system you can do the same thing. Instead of clicking on 3 points on the same track to get 100 skill point is a certain field you can just click two. That in most skills will set you at 85 in that field. While at the same time you can max out a few must have skills.
Take Drain and control Exp. The 1st button gives plus 60, and 2nd gives plus 40. Only two clicks needed to get to 100. while the weapons work as they do now. 50, 35, 15 with three clicks
If people took the time to read and understand then they will say yes you can still have the same setup as you do now, UNLESS you chose the ultimate ability, then yes you may sacrifice a bit else where. Gave and take is alot better system for MMO balancing
One last point. there many new skills which are not part of your builds as of now. So if you want to keep you build the same as it is now, then dont chose those new Armor Pen, or Shield Pen skills, or The pet skills etc
And you are missing the entire point of OP. As he and other ppl have already said before, it's *not* about understanding that OP is talking about. It's making build experimentation more reachable for players. Most people don't want to spend 500 ZEN every time they want to try something new, so they just think what's the most future-proof for them or worse, copy a cookie-cutter loadout and forget totally about other choices in skilltree.
With OP's suggestion, more people will be open to try new things in game, instead going to "one skilltree to rule them all" kind of thing.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
"Respec'ing you skills now costs dilithium equal to your Level × 100 (max of 6,000)."
That's a nice human-readable number that puts the upper cap at less that a single day's worth of dilithium ore refining but NOT completely free.
The current system (and the new one too) rewards specialisation and that's a good thing imo. A tactical officer shouldn't be able to do Sci stuff as good as a true science officer. The skill system and the fact that respecs are not free are one of the last reasons why career matters.
@agnostic4 's suggestion of offering multiple respecs for the same price is a much better idea imo. The current price of 500 zen for a single respec may be too high. Or perhaps offer free respecs every month for free to lifers. This might increase subscription sales too.
Making it entirely free for everyone, though, would mean that there is even less need to have specialised science and engineering characters. Why would anyone create other characters beside tactical officers if you could just completely change your build for each mission you play?
No, you're the one missing one of the major reasons for the revamp. Yes, clarifying skills was one of the objectives but they also want to offer us compelling reasons to step outside of our comfort zones and not just picking the same old general builds like you suggest. They've said this themselves. Bort has said that the entire reason for the ultimate skills is to entice people to specialize down the tree even if not everyone goes that path.
This thread isn't about replicating the same builds with better balance, it's about encouraging build diversity and giving players the choice to spec themselves in whatever builds they want to play and change them when they see fit without locking it behind a monetary barrier. A point you have continually missed this entire time.
Mine Trap Supporter
Sure. I'm totally fine with dil respecs. If/when they come out with a loadout system then they can charge for those slots in the C-store just as they do with equipment loadouts. I'm all for that if completely free can't work.
Mine Trap Supporter
Now a suggestion would be to implement a system similar to that found in Lotro. There each character class has three Loadouts available that could be used to specialize in one of the three different stance types for that character class or to provide different combos. The first two 'Loadouts' were free but the third could only be unlocked through that game's equivalent of Zen.
Now while we don't have the same concept here we do have various trees and branches.
So how this would work here is the Loadout slot itself would be the pricey item (500 - 1000 Zen) . The respecing within one of your available Loadouts would be cheaper, say 200 Zen or so. The Loadout would allow for spending Space Points, etc. freely and resetting until you press the Commit or Whatever Button. When you fiddle with an existing 'Loadout' you can clear and start anew or modify your saved setting then Commit spending a Respec Token.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm afraid I don't follow you here. What do the spec trees have to do with skill revamp? Is the system you propose for the specs or for skills?
Mine Trap Supporter
I completely agree. The goals (supposedly) behind this skill revamp are 1) Make the skill system less intimidating for newer players. 2) Encourage current players to experiment with different builds. No matter how much they streamline things or add incentives to try some of the newer skill choices, both goals fail right out of the gate if one still has to pay actual money for a respec. Newer players will still feel punished for making "wrong" decisions earlier on, and most current players will still want to stick to tried-and-true "cookie cutter" builds, rather than gamble money on an experimental build.
Additionally, selling skill loadouts would help make up for the loss of revenue from skill respecs no longer costing Zen, and they could also make it so that skill respecs still at least cost a decent amount of dilithium, both to prevent people from swapping skills around willy-nilly, and to further encourage people who do want to experiment with different sets of builds to buy skill loadouts instead.
What are you even talking about???
The Skill system and respecs has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your career selection.
You create multiple characters to experience the different flavor that the captain abilities and character traits bring to the table, regardless of the ship you fly, that isn't changing.
I also do not ascribe to the ridiculous notion that people should be restricted or limited to ships based on their career choices either. Each combination is a unique experience, and I take immense pleasure flying an Exotic Damage Pathfinder as an Engineer captain. Much more so than flying an Escort as a Tactical captain.
Yeah that's probably the best option by far, win for us as players, win for the company looking to profit.
The Spec Trees, however, are similar in many ways to this proposed Skill revamp. What you pick DOES affect what you can pick next.
Does that clarify?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Even as someone who usually prefers to go "one and done" with things, especially STO, I'd still probably want to buy at least one skill loadout slot, just to have it.