For the Skills, but there were comments in Thread about Specs. There was also discussion about Traits and how that was free. Traits though are one-dimensional and what you pick in one of the Groupings does not affect what you can pick next in that Grouping or in the other Groupings.
The Spec Trees, however, are similar in many ways to this proposed Skill revamp. What you pick DOES affect what you can pick next.
Does that clarify?
Except that you can max out ALL Spec trees, there are no choices to be made.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Maybe not free respecs, but maybe they could make the skills part of the loadout system, or create a similar system for skills?
Maybe just allow dual-skilling for Gold/Lifetime subscribers and as a per character-purchase. Basically, you can have two different builds and must switch between them, and can use respecs to alter those builds.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And with the choices to be made, the Loadouts do flow.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Completely free respecs aren't going to work. Who needs multiple characters if you can respec one single character every time you want to try something new?
The current system (and the new one too) rewards specialisation and that's a good thing imo. A tactical officer shouldn't be able to do Sci stuff as good as a true science officer. The skill system and the fact that respecs are not free are one of the last reasons why career matters. @agnostic4 's suggestion of offering multiple respecs for the same price is a much better idea imo. The current price of 500 zen for a single respec may be too high. Or perhaps offer free respecs every month for free to lifers. This might increase subscription sales too.
Making it entirely free for everyone, though, would mean that there is even less need to have specialised science and engineering characters. Why would anyone create other characters beside tactical officers if you could just completely change your build for each mission you play?
What are you even talking about???
The Skill system and respecs has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your career selection.
You create multiple characters to experience the different flavor that the captain abilities and character traits bring to the table, regardless of the ship you fly, that isn't changing.
What I'm talking about? A need to respec rewards having different characters. If you want to play with sci powers (say gravity wells, destabilising resonance beam etc.), it pays to have a character who's trained in the necessary skills. For a beam FAW cruiser, you use different skills, and thus it's useful to have a different character. Species related traits are not that important, the captain skills are few compared to boff powers etc. so I doubt that's the reason people create new characters.
It is true that career and skills are -unfortunately - not very related to each other. But I'm assuming here that those who want to fly a sci ship and specialise in it, choose to do so on a sci character. What reason would those people have to create a sci character in the future if they can respec their tac with no costs involved?
That's what I'm talking about. Free respecs would serve no other purpose than allowing tacs to be able to do everything since they'd be able to specialise in all different builds at no costs. It would effectively eliminate the need to have engineering or sci characters, cause those 3 or 4 space skills aren't making much of a difference.
Making respecs free should only be considered if they're at least going to restrict certain skills to certain careers, like we have on the ground.
I don't see how it would make alting more valuable. Tacs (and sci and eng for that matter) can just find a generalized build that supports all ship types just as they can do right now. They don't have to worry about alts or respecs at all. This is how I've operated on the live server for many years now. I haven't touched my main character's skills since the last revamp. Gave him a general skill build and then never looked at his skill sheet again. He can fly every ship type reasonably well.
Alts should be an optional choice that people have and not an answer to a pay locked skill system.
Completely free respecs aren't going to work. Who needs multiple characters if you can respec one single character every time you want to try something new?
The current system (and the new one too) rewards specialisation and that's a good thing imo. A tactical officer shouldn't be able to do Sci stuff as good as a true science officer. The skill system and the fact that respecs are not free are one of the last reasons why career matters. @agnostic4 's suggestion of offering multiple respecs for the same price is a much better idea imo. The current price of 500 zen for a single respec may be too high. Or perhaps offer free respecs every month for free to lifers. This might increase subscription sales too.
Making it entirely free for everyone, though, would mean that there is even less need to have specialised science and engineering characters. Why would anyone create other characters beside tactical officers if you could just completely change your build for each mission you play?
What are you even talking about???
The Skill system and respecs has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your career selection.
You create multiple characters to experience the different flavor that the captain abilities and character traits bring to the table, regardless of the ship you fly, that isn't changing.
What I'm talking about? A need to respec rewards having different characters. If you want to play with sci powers (say gravity wells, destabilising resonance beam etc.), it pays to have a character who's trained in the necessary skills. For a beam FAW cruiser, you use different skills, and thus it's useful to have a different character. Species related traits are not that important, the captain skills are few compared to boff powers etc. so I doubt that's the reason people create new characters.
It is true that career and skills are -unfortunately - not very related to each other. But I'm assuming here that those who want to fly a sci ship and specialise in it, choose to do so on a sci character. What reason would those people have to create a sci character in the future if they can respec their tac with no costs involved?
That's what I'm talking about. Free respecs would serve no other purpose than allowing tacs to be able to do everything since they'd be able to specialise in all different builds at no costs. It would effectively eliminate the need to have engineering or sci characters, cause those 3 or 4 space skills aren't making much of a difference.
Making respecs free should only be considered if they're at least going to restrict certain skills to certain careers, like we have on the ground.
Nope, sorry. Can't agree with that at all.
First off, I would "never" create multiple characters of the same profession to each specialize in a single ship type. The only time I create more than "one" of any career is when factions is involved, I.E having an Eng, Sci and Tac for both KDF, Fed and Rom.
You also seriously underestimate the impact career choice has on playstyle.
I've invested everything in flying a science ship on my engineer, NOT my science captain, why? Because it makes my ship extremely durable and gives me A LOT of power to play around with that neither tactical or science captains have.
No I just don't believe for a single second that free respecs would have any impact whatsoever on the creation and need for multiple characters, at least not for the majority of the playerbase.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
If the goal is to get players to "step outside of their usual comfort zone," then the current system is too prohibitive.
One game I played allowed you to purchase respecs very, VERY cheaply, using what is basically their version of EC. The caveat is, once you respec, a timer starts. IIRC, if you want to respec again within 1 hour, the cost doubles. Then the timer starts again. If you want to respec AGAIN (this time within 2 hours), the cost is doubled again from that (meaning a 4x cost). After the 3rd respec, you're locked out for 24 hours.
I could see this being something done with dilithium, just like a reputation project. First: 1000. Second: (after 1 hour cooldown) 2000. Third: (After 2hour cooldown) 5000. Meaning that you're able to spend your entire daily dilithium refinement on respecs, but nothing more.
Completely free respecs aren't going to work. Who needs multiple characters if you can respec one single character every time you want to try something new?
The current system (and the new one too) rewards specialisation and that's a good thing imo. A tactical officer shouldn't be able to do Sci stuff as good as a true science officer. The skill system and the fact that respecs are not free are one of the last reasons why career matters. @agnostic4 's suggestion of offering multiple respecs for the same price is a much better idea imo. The current price of 500 zen for a single respec may be too high. Or perhaps offer free respecs every month for free to lifers. This might increase subscription sales too.
Making it entirely free for everyone, though, would mean that there is even less need to have specialised science and engineering characters. Why would anyone create other characters beside tactical officers if you could just completely change your build for each mission you play?
What are you even talking about???
The Skill system and respecs has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your career selection.
You create multiple characters to experience the different flavor that the captain abilities and character traits bring to the table, regardless of the ship you fly, that isn't changing.
What I'm talking about? A need to respec rewards having different characters. If you want to play with sci powers (say gravity wells, destabilising resonance beam etc.), it pays to have a character who's trained in the necessary skills. For a beam FAW cruiser, you use different skills, and thus it's useful to have a different character. Species related traits are not that important, the captain skills are few compared to boff powers etc. so I doubt that's the reason people create new characters.
It is true that career and skills are -unfortunately - not very related to each other. But I'm assuming here that those who want to fly a sci ship and specialise in it, choose to do so on a sci character. What reason would those people have to create a sci character in the future if they can respec their tac with no costs involved?
That's what I'm talking about. Free respecs would serve no other purpose than allowing tacs to be able to do everything since they'd be able to specialise in all different builds at no costs. It would effectively eliminate the need to have engineering or sci characters, cause those 3 or 4 space skills aren't making much of a difference.
Making respecs free should only be considered if they're at least going to restrict certain skills to certain careers, like we have on the ground.
Nope, sorry. Can't agree with that at all.
First off, I would "never" create multiple characters of the same profession to each specialize in a single ship type. The only time I create more than "one" of any career is when factions is involved, I.E having an Eng, Sci and Tac for both KDF, Fed and Rom.
You also seriously underestimate the impact career choice has on playstyle.
I've invested everything in flying a science ship on my engineer, NOT my science captain, why? Because it makes my ship extremely durable and gives me A LOT of power to play around with that neither tactical or science captains have.
No I just don't believe for a single second that free respecs would have any impact whatsoever on the creation and need for multiple characters, at least not for the majority of the playerbase.
Truth is, both of us can only say with full certainty what we would do: create or don't create another toon to use different builds etc. So these claims about 'the majority of the playerbase' are unsubstantiated.
Neither of us knows the reasons of 'the playerbase' to create different characters. But we do know that most characters in the game are tactical officers. I don't think it's a good thing that all those tactical officers can be as effective in a sci ship as a true science officer. Yet this is something that would be facilitated if those tactical officers could respec their skills for free, cause career does not determine how powerful your particle generators are.
I assume that most of those tactical characters are trained in attack patterns, energy weapon specialisation etc. when they build their FAW cruiser : all tactical skills. That same FAW captain could, given that he has the right gear to make the change, be a very effective PartiGen killer the next instance if he could just completely change all his skills for free. That's why I think it would remove the need to have seperate characters of different careers, because there would be little need to have multiple builds on different characters.
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
Correct!
Tac Captains dominate because their powers enhance damage and crit stats of ALL damage sources, including particle generators, as well as having access to Tactical Initiative which reduces the cooldown of all Tactical Boff powers.(its worth noting that neither Science or Engineers have no equilvant to TI).
IMO from a career standpoint what needs to happen is for all tac captain powers to be changed to affect "weapons damage" only, and for Science and Engineering equivalents of Tactical Initiative to be introduced.
But thats a discussion for an entirely different thread.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
Yeah I have a sci main in a sci ship so it definitely isn't just you. I do love my space magic.
The question I have is, why do you need an incentive to make another alt? Why not just make one because you feel like? Why make a system that forces people into another character that they may not want? Not everyone out there enjoys alting so I see no need to force it. Even if respecs are totally free and everyone can change their skills whenever they want, the ability to make a new alt isn't going away. Why not just make a new one because you enjoy it?
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
Yeah I have a sci main in a sci ship so it definitely isn't just you. I do love my space magic.
The question I have is, why do you need an incentive to make another alt? Why not just make one because you feel like? Why make a system that forces people into another character that they may not want? Not everyone out there enjoys alting so I see no need to force it. Even if respecs are totally free and everyone can change their skills whenever they want, the ability to make a new alt isn't going away. Why not just make a new one because you enjoy it?
I guess it's because I don't like to see one career dominating the game. It's one of the reasons why I love the ground part of the game so much, cause there's distinctive roles for different careers to play. They're all effective in their own way and you actually need an engineer if you want to build turrets, a sci if you want to be the healer or exotic damage dealer etc. It's what makes every career useful, beyond the standard tactical officer that dominate the space part way too much imo.
I know, that's just my preference... others might prefer it if one career could do all the things as good (or almost as good) as the career that is supposed to be the specialist for certain things. But I've always considered it a good thing if one career is not able to dominate cause of its own abilities (such as Attack pattern Alpha) AND still be able to do the other stuff too.
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
Yeah I have a sci main in a sci ship so it definitely isn't just you. I do love my space magic.
The question I have is, why do you need an incentive to make another alt? Why not just make one because you feel like? Why make a system that forces people into another character that they may not want? Not everyone out there enjoys alting so I see no need to force it. Even if respecs are totally free and everyone can change their skills whenever they want, the ability to make a new alt isn't going away. Why not just make a new one because you enjoy it?
I guess it's because I don't like to see one career dominating the game. It's one of the reasons why I love the ground part of the game so much, cause there's distinctive roles for different careers to play. They're all effective in their own way and you actually need an engineer if you want to build turrets, a sci if you want to be the healer or exotic damage dealer etc. It's what makes every career useful, beyond the standard tactical officer that dominate the space part way too much imo.
I know, that's just my preference... others might prefer it if one career could do all the things as good (or almost as good) as the career that is supposed to be the specialist for certain things. But I've always considered it a good thing if one career is not able to dominate cause of its own abilities (such as Attack pattern Alpha) AND still be able to do the other stuff too.
I don't like seeing one career dominate either. I still don't feel that trying to fix that with the skill system is the way to do it. That feels more like a band-aid rather than re-examining captain powers which is the main cause of tac dominance. I do respect your preference, but I'm afraid I can't agree with it.
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
Yeah I have a sci main in a sci ship so it definitely isn't just you. I do love my space magic.
The question I have is, why do you need an incentive to make another alt? Why not just make one because you feel like? Why make a system that forces people into another character that they may not want? Not everyone out there enjoys alting so I see no need to force it. Even if respecs are totally free and everyone can change their skills whenever they want, the ability to make a new alt isn't going away. Why not just make a new one because you enjoy it?
I guess it's because I don't like to see one career dominating the game. It's one of the reasons why I love the ground part of the game so much, cause there's distinctive roles for different careers to play. They're all effective in their own way and you actually need an engineer if you want to build turrets, a sci if you want to be the healer or exotic damage dealer etc. It's what makes every career useful, beyond the standard tactical officer that dominate the space part way too much imo.
I know, that's just my preference... others might prefer it if one career could do all the things as good (or almost as good) as the career that is supposed to be the specialist for certain things. But I've always considered it a good thing if one career is not able to dominate cause of its own abilities (such as Attack pattern Alpha) AND still be able to do the other stuff too.
I don't like seeing one career dominate either. I still don't feel that trying to fix that with the skill system is the way to do it. That feels more like a band-aid rather than re-examining captain powers which is the main cause of tac dominance. I do respect your preference, but I'm afraid I can't agree with it.
Yep and the global damage buffs and crit enhancements are at the very root of the problem.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
While as much as I like the sound of a free respec, I have to remind you that doing this would lower the amount of money that Cryptic rakes in from selling the ship respec tokens, as well as eliminate a subscriber benefit from the game.
Do you really think that this is that much of a money maker for Cryptic? Not ships, and the variety of other services? Just look at the number of keys on the exchange at any given day. Compared to that, I doubt respecs seriously dent their bottom line in comparison.
And for the greater health of the game, you can't live with this changing?
A decent compromise would be a set number of load outs you can switch two without cost, say 2 to start, and being able to buy more load out slots. While still having respec tokens.
Although for the start I think a couple free respecs would be in order when it goes live.
While as much as I like the sound of a free respec, I have to remind you that doing this would lower the amount of money that Cryptic rakes in from selling the ship respec tokens, as well as eliminate a subscriber benefit from the game.
Do you really think that this is that much of a money maker for Cryptic? Not ships, and the variety of other services? Just look at the number of keys on the exchange at any given day. Compared to that, I doubt respecs seriously dent their bottom line in comparison.
And for the greater health of the game, you can't live with this changing?
A decent compromise would be a set number of load outs you can switch two without cost, say 2 to start, and being able to buy more load out slots. While still having respec tokens.
Although for the start I think a couple free respecs would be in order when it goes live.
Would also like to see monthly tokens for gold/LTS users. Especially since aren't any new veteran rewards.
While as much as I like the sound of a free respec, I have to remind you that doing this would lower the amount of money that Cryptic rakes in from selling the ship respec tokens, as well as eliminate a subscriber benefit from the game.
Then Lifers/Subscribers can get free at-will respecs while non-subscribers still have to pay (like TOR does). It incentivises subscribing to the game (giving PWE money from that), while still enabling the revenue from respec tokens.
"Back on topic. Destinii is correct."
(Formerly Destinii until the 'Great PWE Forum Shakeup of 2012')
The reason that tacs are better at science than sci is because of their captain powers and not because of the skill system. You won't see people rolling sci alts for a sci build, they will just roll another tac alt. Tacs will just become more prevalent than they already are. If you want to address the differences in the career population, then you need to address the main source of captain powers. Trying to do it through the skill system isn't going to work.
Correct!
Tac Captains dominate because their powers enhance damage and crit stats of ALL damage sources, including particle generators, as well as having access to Tactical Initiative which reduces the cooldown of all Tactical Boff powers.(its worth noting that neither Science or Engineers have no equilvant to TI).
IMO from a career standpoint what needs to happen is for all tac captain powers to be changed to affect "weapons damage" only, and for Science and Engineering equivalents of Tactical Initiative to be introduced.
But thats a discussion for an entirely different thread.
Indeed though I'd rather engineers and science captain abilities be brought up rather then tactical brought down.
They need to make re-spec tokens either cost a non-zen in game currency or make them trade-able and low zen cost. Unlike other systems they can't complete eliminate the possibility that someone spends their points very very badly. Even in the new system there are skills that could hamper wanted performance.
Unfortunately it looks like they are going to use this opportunity as cash cow. They already stated you would only get 1 respec in one of the Tribble patch notes despite the fact that it is a new system with changes that means you will not have much of an idea how powerful or useful these skills categories will be to you. It is common sense that with the introduction of the skill revamp a lot of people will make mistakes, but they will have to change with coin knowing Cryptic. This is pretty low, but not unexpected. Best bet is find the configuration you want on Tribble and then use that in live.
Unfortunately it looks like they are going to use this opportunity as cash cow. They already stated you would only get 1 respec in one of the Tribble patch notes despite the fact that it is a new system with changes that means you will not have much of an idea how powerful or useful these skills categories will be to you. It is common sense that with the introduction of the skill revamp a lot of people will make mistakes, but they will have to change with coin knowing Cryptic. This is pretty low, but not unexpected. Best bet is find the configuration you want on Tribble and then use that in live.
Which kind of keeps things status quo and makes Cryptic's own statement completely empty.
With these new options spread across all Engineering, Science and Tactical sections of the Space Skill Tree, we anticipate players feeling many compelling reasons to step outside of their usual comfort zone and perhaps even exploring new ways of progressing their captain and starship.
Nobody is going to step outside of their usual comfort zone as long as respecs are as expensive as they are.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Much of what is discussed here about toons' skills vs the variety of ships that a toon might use demonstrates why I have always thought it ridiculous that the game lets players own ships like, as I described in another thread, a trivial collection of toy cars. It also demonstrates why this game completely pisses on the philosophy that less is more, with pretty much every aspect of it. Because of the fact this is an MMO with demanding players, the tradition is to throw more - more more more, of this and that at the game - and everytime "more" of something is tossed into the pot, the less special or valuable any of it becomes, and it trivializes the whole experience of having a ship, aside from creating this issue where players demand to instantly and freely be "experts" in any ship they choose to purchase and hop into at any given time. To hell if I have any clue how that is supposed to make sense or be even remotely realistic even in Sci-Fi terms! lol
Much of what is discussed here about toons' skills vs the variety of ships that a toon might use demonstrates why I have always thought it ridiculous that the game lets players own ships like, as I described in another thread, a trivial collection of toy cars. It also demonstrates why this game completely pisses on the philosophy that less is more, with pretty much every aspect of it. Because of the fact this is an MMO with demanding players, the tradition is to throw more - more more more, of this and that at the game - and everytime "more" of something is tossed into the pot, the less special or valuable any of it becomes, and it trivializes the whole experience of having a ship, aside from creating this issue where players demand to instantly and freely be "experts" in any ship they choose to purchase and hop into at any given time. To hell if I have any clue how that is supposed to make sense or be even remotely realistic even in Sci-Fi terms! lol
Because this is a Video Game in 2016 where MMO's can be played on Phones while on the Subway. Instant gratification won the Millennial Generation.
I am all for being able to specialize in the most in depths methods that you are hinting at here, but that's not this game, pretending it is is kind of silly.
To be honest I enjoyed this game far more before it went FTP, but that day has come and gone and the shiniest new ship packs drive revenue. Everything else drives the sales of the shiniest new ship packs and changes to the game have to be made so the oldest ship pack still holds value.
Looks like they're going to keep paid respecs. From the newly posted FAQ on the news page:
Q: Will the existing pricing of Skill Respec Tokens remain unchanged?
A: To help celebrate the launch of Season 11.5 and the Skill Revamp, we will be holding a promotional sale at that time to reduce the price of Skill Respec Tokens. The exact pricing will be announced at a later date.
Extremely disappointing. No stepping outside of comfort zones for me. Time to figure out the best generalized build and then never look at the skill system again.
Alas it seems that way.
Would be nice if they could at least have the decency to refund all respec tokens that Subscribers get from leveling up.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
As a side note, I find it hilarious that they're going to hold a sale on launch day. They basically expect that people are going to mess up their skills and are looking to profit off it. It's so scummy I can only laugh at it. That's some EA level stuff. The forums are going to be a BLAST when people realize they have to open their wallets to fix their skill mistakes on day 1. I think I need to go invest in popcorn stocks immediately.
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Except that you can max out ALL Spec trees, there are no choices to be made.
Maybe just allow dual-skilling for Gold/Lifetime subscribers and as a per character-purchase. Basically, you can have two different builds and must switch between them, and can use respecs to alter those builds.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What I'm talking about? A need to respec rewards having different characters. If you want to play with sci powers (say gravity wells, destabilising resonance beam etc.), it pays to have a character who's trained in the necessary skills. For a beam FAW cruiser, you use different skills, and thus it's useful to have a different character. Species related traits are not that important, the captain skills are few compared to boff powers etc. so I doubt that's the reason people create new characters.
It is true that career and skills are -unfortunately - not very related to each other. But I'm assuming here that those who want to fly a sci ship and specialise in it, choose to do so on a sci character. What reason would those people have to create a sci character in the future if they can respec their tac with no costs involved?
That's what I'm talking about. Free respecs would serve no other purpose than allowing tacs to be able to do everything since they'd be able to specialise in all different builds at no costs. It would effectively eliminate the need to have engineering or sci characters, cause those 3 or 4 space skills aren't making much of a difference.
Making respecs free should only be considered if they're at least going to restrict certain skills to certain careers, like we have on the ground.
Alts should be an optional choice that people have and not an answer to a pay locked skill system.
Mine Trap Supporter
Nope, sorry. Can't agree with that at all.
First off, I would "never" create multiple characters of the same profession to each specialize in a single ship type. The only time I create more than "one" of any career is when factions is involved, I.E having an Eng, Sci and Tac for both KDF, Fed and Rom.
You also seriously underestimate the impact career choice has on playstyle.
I've invested everything in flying a science ship on my engineer, NOT my science captain, why? Because it makes my ship extremely durable and gives me A LOT of power to play around with that neither tactical or science captains have.
No I just don't believe for a single second that free respecs would have any impact whatsoever on the creation and need for multiple characters, at least not for the majority of the playerbase.
One game I played allowed you to purchase respecs very, VERY cheaply, using what is basically their version of EC. The caveat is, once you respec, a timer starts. IIRC, if you want to respec again within 1 hour, the cost doubles. Then the timer starts again. If you want to respec AGAIN (this time within 2 hours), the cost is doubled again from that (meaning a 4x cost). After the 3rd respec, you're locked out for 24 hours.
I could see this being something done with dilithium, just like a reputation project. First: 1000. Second: (after 1 hour cooldown) 2000. Third: (After 2hour cooldown) 5000. Meaning that you're able to spend your entire daily dilithium refinement on respecs, but nothing more.
Truth is, both of us can only say with full certainty what we would do: create or don't create another toon to use different builds etc. So these claims about 'the majority of the playerbase' are unsubstantiated.
Neither of us knows the reasons of 'the playerbase' to create different characters. But we do know that most characters in the game are tactical officers. I don't think it's a good thing that all those tactical officers can be as effective in a sci ship as a true science officer. Yet this is something that would be facilitated if those tactical officers could respec their skills for free, cause career does not determine how powerful your particle generators are.
I assume that most of those tactical characters are trained in attack patterns, energy weapon specialisation etc. when they build their FAW cruiser : all tactical skills. That same FAW captain could, given that he has the right gear to make the change, be a very effective PartiGen killer the next instance if he could just completely change all his skills for free. That's why I think it would remove the need to have seperate characters of different careers, because there would be little need to have multiple builds on different characters.
Mine Trap Supporter
Correct!
Tac Captains dominate because their powers enhance damage and crit stats of ALL damage sources, including particle generators, as well as having access to Tactical Initiative which reduces the cooldown of all Tactical Boff powers.(its worth noting that neither Science or Engineers have no equilvant to TI).
IMO from a career standpoint what needs to happen is for all tac captain powers to be changed to affect "weapons damage" only, and for Science and Engineering equivalents of Tactical Initiative to be introduced.
But thats a discussion for an entirely different thread.
(emphasis mine)
Actually I did that...
And it could work if they made certain skills exclusive to specific careers. Sure, it would require a different revamp than what's being worked on now, but I do know that offering free respecs to everyone or removing the need to pay for them will remove the incentive for people like me to create different characters.
I actually created most of my sci characters to have sci-specific builds. I may or may not be alone in this though, but again, we can't really tell.
Yeah I have a sci main in a sci ship so it definitely isn't just you. I do love my space magic.
The question I have is, why do you need an incentive to make another alt? Why not just make one because you feel like? Why make a system that forces people into another character that they may not want? Not everyone out there enjoys alting so I see no need to force it. Even if respecs are totally free and everyone can change their skills whenever they want, the ability to make a new alt isn't going away. Why not just make a new one because you enjoy it?
Mine Trap Supporter
I guess it's because I don't like to see one career dominating the game. It's one of the reasons why I love the ground part of the game so much, cause there's distinctive roles for different careers to play. They're all effective in their own way and you actually need an engineer if you want to build turrets, a sci if you want to be the healer or exotic damage dealer etc. It's what makes every career useful, beyond the standard tactical officer that dominate the space part way too much imo.
I know, that's just my preference... others might prefer it if one career could do all the things as good (or almost as good) as the career that is supposed to be the specialist for certain things. But I've always considered it a good thing if one career is not able to dominate cause of its own abilities (such as Attack pattern Alpha) AND still be able to do the other stuff too.
I don't like seeing one career dominate either. I still don't feel that trying to fix that with the skill system is the way to do it. That feels more like a band-aid rather than re-examining captain powers which is the main cause of tac dominance. I do respect your preference, but I'm afraid I can't agree with it.
Mine Trap Supporter
Yep and the global damage buffs and crit enhancements are at the very root of the problem.
Do you really think that this is that much of a money maker for Cryptic? Not ships, and the variety of other services? Just look at the number of keys on the exchange at any given day. Compared to that, I doubt respecs seriously dent their bottom line in comparison.
And for the greater health of the game, you can't live with this changing?
A decent compromise would be a set number of load outs you can switch two without cost, say 2 to start, and being able to buy more load out slots. While still having respec tokens.
Although for the start I think a couple free respecs would be in order when it goes live.
Would also like to see monthly tokens for gold/LTS users. Especially since aren't any new veteran rewards.
Then Lifers/Subscribers can get free at-will respecs while non-subscribers still have to pay (like TOR does). It incentivises subscribing to the game (giving PWE money from that), while still enabling the revenue from respec tokens.
"Back on topic. Destinii is correct."
(Formerly Destinii until the 'Great PWE Forum Shakeup of 2012')
They need to make re-spec tokens either cost a non-zen in game currency or make them trade-able and low zen cost. Unlike other systems they can't complete eliminate the possibility that someone spends their points very very badly. Even in the new system there are skills that could hamper wanted performance.
Which kind of keeps things status quo and makes Cryptic's own statement completely empty.
Nobody is going to step outside of their usual comfort zone as long as respecs are as expensive as they are.
Because this is a Video Game in 2016 where MMO's can be played on Phones while on the Subway. Instant gratification won the Millennial Generation.
I am all for being able to specialize in the most in depths methods that you are hinting at here, but that's not this game, pretending it is is kind of silly.
To be honest I enjoyed this game far more before it went FTP, but that day has come and gone and the shiniest new ship packs drive revenue. Everything else drives the sales of the shiniest new ship packs and changes to the game have to be made so the oldest ship pack still holds value.
Extremely disappointing. No stepping outside of comfort zones for me. Time to figure out the best generalized build and then never look at the skill system again.
Mine Trap Supporter
Would be nice if they could at least have the decency to refund all respec tokens that Subscribers get from leveling up.
Mine Trap Supporter