This is so unfair!!!!! I like playing on my mac, it has a bigger screen I like. I can see all around better in the game. Mac always has a hard time in finding great games to come over to it side.
"We will be reimbursing any Zen that was purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance."
What makes you think I'll want to risk playing any of your other titles after being treated like this? Refunds should be complete! Hell, I've sunk more money into this game since the November screwup than I ever had before, simply because you guys went the extra mile to get it working again, and said at the time that there were no plans to kill it off. Besides, none of your other titles support Mac, so how am I supposed to spend the credit?!
ETA: I've just manually cancelled my subscription because it had not been automatically cancelled as claimed in the OP, and was scheduled to renew in 4 days.
"We will be canceling (sic) and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions."
I am not getting that part:
We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions.
What makes you think I'll want to risk playing any of your other titles after being treated like this? Refunds should be complete! Hell, I've sunk more money into this game since the November screwup than I ever had before, simply because you guys went the extra mile to get it working again, and said at the time that there were no plans to kill it off. Besides, none of your other titles support Mac, so how am I supposed to spend the credit?!
I would like to have an official answer to that, too.
And also for this question:
In case you refund the Zen I've spent to Arc Account balance and not refund it back to my credit card:
a) will I still be able to use my account if I find a PC or Wine solution over the next months? Or will you shut the account down when reimbursed?
b) if I find a working PC or wine solution later on, will I be able to turn the Arc Account value back to ZEN for STO?
I already wrote a mail to support, but no answer yet. Would be great if someone can let us know here in this thread in case he/she already received an answer.
Best solution for me would be: Refund the spent ZEN to my credit card and I buy a gaming laptop with this money. But I don't think they will do it like this. I wonder how much money is involved in all these refunds. Could be a very dangerous step if a few users decide to insist on a full refund. But I'm not a lawyer and expect this to be very difficult.
In the end (just my personal and maybe a bit emotional perspective) I'm trying hard to find a way to still play this game, because I really like it. I fought the last months a lot with it and was optimistic that you will find a solution for Mac users. Okay, sometimes I've been really angry because of a LOT of crashes, but in the end I really appreciated what you do. It's not a game which is in the market since one or two years. It's a BIG thing, because of so many reasons. It's a great community and I play in an AWESOME fleet (STO Academy). The people are great, the content is great, the stories are great, the efforts from everybody behind this institution of Star Trek in general is great. The users and especially the Mac users are the living proof that a strong community will be loyal, even if there are problems.
I connected to the developers regarding the mac client the original quote "Lieutenant, you are looking at the only man to beat the no-win scenario." But I was wrong. Mac Client discontinued. Over and out.
I would like to have an answer to above mentioned questions please. Thank you. And I close with another quote:
There was so much that cryptic could have done with this game.
. . . if there were more paying OS X client users. PWE likes money. PWE giving back money and not letting you give them money with the OS X client should tell you that the OS X client users were losing them money.
To be clear, we are still unclear as to the nature of these "refunds." If they are simply refunding Zen to an Arc account, but there are no Mac games to play (let alone, an Arc client)... the refunds are worthless, in that case. This may not be as awesome as you portray.
It's not all that unclear.
Subscription Money: Refunded to Credit Card or Paypal if used, otherwise it's in your Arc Account balance.
Zen Purchases: Refund to your Arc Account Balance.
And if you're unhappy with that, you will need to contact customer support and see if there is some way to accomondate you better. (And if those results are still unsatisfying, you might need to resort to legal options, with unknown outcomes.)
We wanted to come back to follow up on where we currently are with the Mac version of Star Trek Online. As some of you are aware, we had issues in the recent past that affected our players from launching the client and playing Star Trek Online. We were able to work with our partners to bring the game back up and deliver all the previously available promotions that were unattainable by those players.
Following these issues, we looked at our Mac support overall and determined that we cannot promise to deliver an experience on Mac that meets our expectations of quality. After heavy consideration, we have decided to end support for the Mac version of Star Trek Online on February 5th. No other version of Star Trek Online is impacted.
Here are some important notes as we shut down Mac support:
The Mac client will be unavailable for download starting on February 5th.
Anyone with an existing Mac client will be able to play, but the game will become permanently unavailable via our mac client by Spring of this year.
We will be shutting off C-Store for all Mac users to prevent players from continuing to make purchases before it permanently shuts down.
We will be processing reimbursements and refunds over the next few weeks.
We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions. If a payment was made other than a credit card or Paypal, the value of the subscription will be reimbursed to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing any Zen that was purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing the value of any Packs purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
For those looking ton continue to play our game after we shut down the Mac client, we would recommend using any of the popular programs to simulate a windows environment on your Mac, including the free software Wine.
We appreciate all the Mac Captains who have flown through the galaxy with us since 2014.
Perfect World Entertainment
If you have any questions regarding your accounts or subscriptions, please contact our support team through https://support.arcgames.com/
Cancelling your subscription, by the way, does not mean cancelling the account. Your characters will be left untouched. (Might be interesting to see how this works for C-Store ships you purchased since October 1st. The will likely stay in your possession, but normally you can reclaim these ships - will that still work?)
What's unclear to me is how they determine whether you're a Mac user who is eglible for a refund?
Uh, the whole refunding Zen to your Arc balance part. Notice THAT does not say "refund to your credit card or Paypal..." Like the note about subscriptions. If you get Zen refunded to your Arc balance only, but can't play any Arc games.... tell me, what use is it to refund at all?
The whole confusion around the zen refunds, account cancellations, Subscription and LTS refunds is so Cryptic lol. But yes we need an answer, I mailed support saying do not cancel me to much time invested in the game i'll find a solution. Wait with baited breath see what response i get
The whole confusion around the zen refunds, account cancellations, Subscription and LTS refunds is so Cryptic lol. But yes we need an answer, I mailed support saying do not cancel me to much time invested in the game i'll find a solution. Wait with baited breath see what response i get
I think it's not. One just has to stop making any assumptions and read exactly what is written. Don't assume anything else.
Subscriptions get refunded (If since October 1st). If none done with a credit card or paypal, it will go to your account balance. (Which will be useless, of course, if you really have no access to a Windows machine or emulator/virtualization, because there are currently no Arc games with Mac Clients.)
Zen purchases (and packs acquired via Arc) go towards the account balance.
Cancelling a subscription does not mean cancelling the account, or deleting characters, or anything like that. (You don't need a subscription to cancel).
They are also saying they are processing this over the next few weeks, so that most likely means that some people will get their refunds sooner, others will get it later. So it's not a sign of anything if an account still is listed as subscribed to STO, or if refunds have not been giving yet - the processing takes time. But if you're in doubt about your account, you will have to ask customer support.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't think people are confused about what they're saying, I think the confusion is about why they're saying it. Why would they offer a useless "refund" to an account balance that we can't use, and that they know we can't use, due to the reason they're offering it? If the user can make use of the account balance, then she doesn't actually need it, because she's still got access to STO.
I think people are perfectly justified in looking at this, perfectly comprehending what is happening, and responding with a loud "what the?" anyway.
We wanted to come back to follow up on where we currently are with the Mac version of Star Trek Online. As some of you are aware, we had issues in the recent past that affected our players from launching the client and playing Star Trek Online. We were able to work with our partners to bring the game back up and deliver all the previously available promotions that were unattainable by those players.
Following these issues, we looked at our Mac support overall and determined that we cannot promise to deliver an experience on Mac that meets our expectations of quality. After heavy consideration, we have decided to end support for the Mac version of Star Trek Online on February 5th. No other version of Star Trek Online is impacted.
Here are some important notes as we shut down Mac support:
The Mac client will be unavailable for download starting on February 5th.
Anyone with an existing Mac client will be able to play, but the game will become permanently unavailable via our mac client by Spring of this year.
We will be shutting off C-Store for all Mac users to prevent players from continuing to make purchases before it permanently shuts down.
We will be processing reimbursements and refunds over the next few weeks.
We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions. If a payment was made other than a credit card or Paypal, the value of the subscription will be reimbursed to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing any Zen that was purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing the value of any Packs purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
For those looking ton continue to play our game after we shut down the Mac client, we would recommend using any of the popular programs to simulate a windows environment on your Mac, including the free software Wine.
We appreciate all the Mac Captains who have flown through the galaxy with us since 2014.
Perfect World Entertainment
If you have any questions regarding your accounts or subscriptions, please contact our support team through https://support.arcgames.com/
So I am not going to spam or wail but I do have one major red flag with this refunding challenge - I made Zen purchases to play STO and no other game. I don't care for PWE's or Cryptic's other games. Nor do I care to support Arc because the only reason I use Arc is to play STO. So instead of refunding my money to an account I will be cancelling never use after support ends, instead will PWE/Cryptic make direct refunds - because to be fair, I won't be purchasing a PoC to play STO and as I said I sure as hell won't be supporting Arc past this - there is no cost-benefit to such stupidity.
The whole confusion around the zen refunds, account cancellations, Subscription and LTS refunds is so Cryptic lol. But yes we need an answer, I mailed support saying do not cancel me to much time invested in the game i'll find a solution. Wait with baited breath see what response i get
I think it's not. One just has to stop making any assumptions and read exactly what is written. Don't assume anything else.
Subscriptions get refunded (If since October 1st). If none done with a credit card or paypal, it will go to your account balance. (Which will be useless, of course, if you really have no access to a Windows machine or emulator/virtualization, because there are currently no Arc games with Mac Clients.)
Zen purchases (and packs acquired via Arc) go towards the account balance.
Cancelling a subscription does not mean cancelling the account, or deleting characters, or anything like that. (You don't need a subscription to cancel).
They are also saying they are processing this over the next few weeks, so that most likely means that some people will get their refunds sooner, others will get it later. So it's not a sign of anything if an account still is listed as subscribed to STO, or if refunds have not been giving yet - the processing takes time. But if you're in doubt about your account, you will have to ask customer support.
Thanks for explaining it. Guess the shock, emotion, anger at this news has knocked my sense of rationalisation offline. I shall refrain from saying exactly how i feel about it as i don't want a ban.
We wanted to come back to follow up on where we currently are with the Mac version of Star Trek Online. As some of you are aware, we had issues in the recent past that affected our players from launching the client and playing Star Trek Online. We were able to work with our partners to bring the game back up and deliver all the previously available promotions that were unattainable by those players.
Following these issues, we looked at our Mac support overall and determined that we cannot promise to deliver an experience on Mac that meets our expectations of quality. After heavy consideration, we have decided to end support for the Mac version of Star Trek Online on February 5th. No other version of Star Trek Online is impacted.
Here are some important notes as we shut down Mac support:
The Mac client will be unavailable for download starting on February 5th.
Anyone with an existing Mac client will be able to play, but the game will become permanently unavailable via our mac client by Spring of this year.
We will be shutting off C-Store for all Mac users to prevent players from continuing to make purchases before it permanently shuts down.
We will be processing reimbursements and refunds over the next few weeks.
We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions. If a payment was made other than a credit card or Paypal, the value of the subscription will be reimbursed to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing any Zen that was purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
We will be reimbursing the value of any Packs purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
For those looking ton continue to play our game after we shut down the Mac client, we would recommend using any of the popular programs to simulate a windows environment on your Mac, including the free software Wine.
We appreciate all the Mac Captains who have flown through the galaxy with us since 2014.
Perfect World Entertainment
If you have any questions regarding your accounts or subscriptions, please contact our support team through https://support.arcgames.com/
I want a refund of all my transactions and my lifetime subscription.
What makes you think I'll want to risk playing any of your other titles after being treated like this? Refunds should be complete! Hell, I've sunk more money into this game since the November screwup than I ever had before, simply because you guys went the extra mile to get it working again, and said at the time that there were no plans to kill it off. Besides, none of your other titles support Mac, so how am I supposed to spend the credit?!
I would like to have an official answer to that, too.
And also for this question:
In case you refund the Zen I've spent to Arc Account balance and not refund it back to my credit card:
a) will I still be able to use my account if I find a PC or Wine solution over the next months? Or will you shut the account down when reimbursed?
b) if I find a working PC or wine solution later on, will I be able to turn the Arc Account value back to ZEN for STO?
I already wrote a mail to support, but no answer yet. Would be great if someone can let us know here in this thread in case he/she already received an answer.
Best solution for me would be: Refund the spent ZEN to my credit card and I buy a gaming laptop with this money. But I don't think they will do it like this. I wonder how much money is involved in all these refunds. Could be a very dangerous step if a few users decide to insist on a full refund. But I'm not a lawyer and expect this to be very difficult.
In the end (just my personal and maybe a bit emotional perspective) I'm trying hard to find a way to still play this game, because I really like it. I fought the last months a lot with it and was optimistic that you will find a solution for Mac users. Okay, sometimes I've been really angry because of a LOT of crashes, but in the end I really appreciated what you do. It's not a game which is in the market since one or two years. It's a BIG thing, because of so many reasons. It's a great community and I play in an AWESOME fleet (STO Academy). The people are great, the content is great, the stories are great, the efforts from everybody behind this institution of Star Trek in general is great. The users and especially the Mac users are the living proof that a strong community will be loyal, even if there are problems.
I connected to the developers regarding the mac client the original quote "Lieutenant, you are looking at the only man to beat the no-win scenario." But I was wrong. Mac Client discontinued. Over and out.
I would like to have an answer to above mentioned questions please. Thank you. And I close with another quote:
“Course heading, Captain?”
*looking at my Mac Star Trek Online App*
"Second Star to the right...and straight on 'til morning."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There was so much that cryptic could have done with this game.
. . . if there were more paying OS X client users. PWE likes money. PWE giving back money and not letting you give them money with the OS X client should tell you that the OS X client users were losing them money.
It tells me that they are taking the easy way out by quitting.
Your claiming that its because Mac users aren't buying enough is daft, they're losing more money by cutting out a chunk of their player base.
Its like having a flock of 100x gold egg laying geese, you kill and eat say 10 of them, then the rest either stop laying altogether or lay so rarely (and the eggs are so tiny they make quail eggs look like a house). Then you start complaining about not having as much gold.
Also they are not refunding money, they're refunding Zen.
Nope. You're ignoring the development costs for the Mac client.
- There are 92 geese, and it costs $1,000 a month to feed them.
- There are 6 other geese, and it costs $1,000 a month to feed just those 6 iGeese.
Each one provides $100 worth of eggs each month. The farmer makes $8,200 profit on the 92, but loses $400 a month on the iGeese.
So killing and eating the iGeese lets the farmer keep $400 extra per month.
I gets the golden goose was a little too clumsy of me.
Point I was trying to make is when you stop doing stuff it becomes a slippery slope.
Example?
How about the fact that the only faction specific content anymore is ships.
How long do you think it'll be before they turn round and say 'it costs too much to make RR and KDF ships so we're stopping'. Soon followed by removing the ability to make KDF characters and removing the KDF option for RR characters, then they lock the Zen-store for all KDF and KDF aligned RR characters too.
Do you know what happens with a locked Zen-store?
No ships, not even ones you've already got and unlocked for your account, same applies to all other account unlocks and promotions too..
So the only things you can get is the stuff that isn't character or account bound which is = Keys, Ship Upgrades, Fleet Ship Modules, Duty Officer packs, R&D packs, Bridge Officers etc.
They already took care of faction story costs by making all new high level episodes shared content.
They already took care of faction ship costs by only creating faction ships that they expect to be profitable. So no science
The difference with the Mac client is that they must keep spending money on it month after month to keep it in sync with the Windows client and the servers. They can't let it sit there cost-free like they can with the KDF faction.
I don't think people are confused about what they're saying, I think the confusion is about why they're saying it. Why would they offer a useless "refund" to an account balance that we can't use, and that they know we can't use, due to the reason they're offering it? If the user can make use of the account balance, then she doesn't actually need it, because she's still got access to STO.
I think people are perfectly justified in looking at this, perfectly comprehending what is happening, and responding with a loud "what the?" anyway.
Then it would help to ask directly, instead of speculating?
Why do Mac users get Zen refunded back to an account balance, if they don't actually have any games to play anymore on ARc, and consequently no use for that Zen? How can Mac users get refunds in actual currency, rather than virtual currency sitting in their Arc account balance?
I imagine it might be part technical reasons (Zen purchases could be done in a variety of ways, and it might not be possible to track the current balance back to the original credit card or paypal account back), it could be that they just like to keep money they have already gotten. But we can only speculate here.
I think sending an inquiry to customer support would not hurt. I am not affected, so I can't do it, unfortunately.
The Mac Closure Notice for Star Trek Online states that Zen purchased via Arc gets refunded to the Arc Account balance.
This is not satisfactory to me. There are no Mac games on Arc anymore with Star Trek Online's closure, so I would never be able to use that Zen.
How can I get an actual money refund for this money? Would I need to handle it via my credit card company or PayPal? Do I need to provide receipts or credit card statements?
And expect that it will take time for them to get back to you, because I suspect they might be swamped with such questions. (Unless there really aren't that many Mac users...)
Also be prepared for answers you don't like to hear. For example, I doubt that you would get refunds for all purchases you ever made. The October cut-off point for subscriptions might be something they'd also use for any other type of refund. After all - even if you can't play anymore, you did play for some time, so you got something out of the money you spend. (Hopefuly.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Thanks for explaining it. Guess the shock, emotion, anger at this news has knocked my sense of rationalisation offline. I shall refrain from saying exactly how i feel about it as i don't want a ban.
I totally get that. This is quite sudden and unexpected. Considering how much I have already spend on the game. I suppose i wouldn't be really angry, because that's not how I work usually, but it would be extremely frustrating.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
As a follow up to my post from earlier, I just had a lovely chat with a member of the support team. No sarcasm here at all. Definitely a pleasant chat. She was nothing but polite and friendly and apologetic. I have distinct feeling that PWE/Cryptic/Arc are getting deluged by Mac player tickets and support requests for full refunds (I sent one) and are a bit underwater when it comes to this situation. I'm not saying this is not a situation of their own making, because certainly they made this bed. But at the end of the day I get that this was a financial decision. It's obvious that the PWE/Cryptic/Arc team wanted to capitalize on a burgeoning Mac gaming community and that's great. But the evidence of the gaming mechanics clearly shows they were grossly unprepared. I'm not criticizing, just acknowledging the facts in front of me.
But the tone-deaf response from PWE/Cryptic/Arc in this situation is the one we should all be worried about. Am I upset that the Mac client is being shut down? Yep. Am I going to buy a PoC just to play this game? Nope. Because here's the cold reality of this situation: the game developers made a financial decision and based on their response so I too will be making a financial decision. See, at this point, whether or not I want to support this company is based on my hardware. No PoC, then no PWE/Cryptic/Arc because whether you refund my money into some ridiculous Arc account is irrelevant - I can't spend the money because you don't support my hardware. So, when I say tone-deaf response, on its face it looks more like stupid tree response. But going back to the financial decisions, I'm not personally hurt by this. To the other Mac players out there, I'd encourage you to adopt this mindset. My life isn't over, nor is yours by not being able to play STO. Yes it sucks but now I'll save some money, PWE/Cryptic/Arc will not get that money and the circle of financial life will continue to turn. And guess what, you'll save your money, PWE/Cryptic/Arc won't get that money and the circle of financial life will continue to turn. Is the Mac developer at PWE/Cryptic/Arc out of a job? Don't know, and frankly, don't care because that has no impact on my gaming life anymore. Is PWE/Cryptic/Arc in financial trouble? See the previous response. This isn't snark, just a cause-effect reaction. If I get my full refund, great. I still can't play the games so this is an amicable split. If I don't get a refund, yes I'm out some money (and that sucks at the moment) but my life isn't over and as far as supporting PWE/Cryptic/Arc on a going forward basis, it just won't happen ever again. And if someone asks me about the game, I can categorically tell them not to play based on this experience. Again, not snark, just a cause-effect reaction.
So in that respect, bon voyage and good luck to the rest of the Captains out there. I've truly enjoyed playing wha I was able to play in the last year and I got to do something I thought I'd never get to do. So thanks PWE/Cryptic/Arc for a nice round of gaming in the last year, and good luck in keeping it together going forward.
Oh and from a public relations note developers, don't be so damned insulting and classless by removing my game platform and then on the same day you send me an email telling me to get excited over a new game that I can't play because I don't have the right platform. It's those kinds of shenanigans that makes you guys look worse than amateurs.
Recent issues?
Ending support?
It NEVER worked, it never received updates, it was plagued by bugs, unstable as hell, it had extremely bad audio quality, constant crashing in large open world maps, the worst port that has ever been seen in the whole gaming industry.
So don't tell me you're "ending support". You never did support it: it wasn't even playable on a high range MacBook Pro with a Nvidia 650M at minimum settings, you never listened to all of the performance issues that plagued it since the very beginning, and two years later since its release it had become too much of a struggle to "support it".
I really had a laugh when I read it.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
All reasonable views to take. Cryptic stops supporting Macs, you only want to play native OS X games, you no longer want to support Cryptic in any way. You hopefully get your money back, Cryptic stops bleeding money to support native OS X, maybe they can put some of that money into maintaining the Windows client.
Oh and from a public relations note developers, don't be so damned insulting and classless by removing my game platform and then on the same day you send me an email telling me to get excited over a new game that I can't play because I don't have the right platform. It's those kinds of shenanigans that makes you guys look worse than amateurs.
Not all Mac owners are OS X purists. Many would prefer an OS X client but will switch to Boot Camp, Parallels or WINE when necessary. They do not have a way to separate the purists from the pragmatic.
I have both PC and Mac in my household. I have played STO on both with very little issue. The fact that Mac is closing is just limiting what I do on the Mac these days. It's really going to impact my daughter more than me since she almost purely played it from the Mac. She will just have to get used to using a PC from now on when playing STO.
All reasonable views to take. Cryptic stops supporting Macs, you only want to play native OS X games, you no longer want to support Cryptic in any way. You hopefully get your money back, Cryptic stops bleeding money to support native OS X, maybe they can put some of that money into maintaining the Windows client.
Oh and from a public relations note developers, don't be so damned insulting and classless by removing my game platform and then on the same day you send me an email telling me to get excited over a new game that I can't play because I don't have the right platform. It's those kinds of shenanigans that makes you guys look worse than amateurs.
Not all Mac owners are OS X purists. Many would prefer an OS X client but will switch to Boot Camp, Parallels or WINE when necessary. They do not have a way to separate the purists from the pragmatic.
On point, I don't see any purpose in going on a rant outside of it maybe making me feel good about myself for sticking it to the man in text format. And I've seen plenty of rants already in this thread so I'll let others are for me. It's just that for me, ranting doesn't hit the core of the argument and probably takes away from it which is why I try to make such reasonable points.
Oh and I'm not an OS X purist, it's just that I made a choice to use this hardware fully recognizing the limitations of the machine in the gaming world. Though to be fair, that's not why I bought my Mac in the first place and putting on things like boot camp, parallels or WINE aren't in the cards because the room they take up can be used for more important applications from my non-gaming life.
I am just looking for some clarification on their statements about the timing of the refunds. I am going to try to use Wine or Crossover. As to the refund I don't want to jump the gun.
I am just looking for some clarification on their statements about the timing of the refunds. I am going to try to use Wine or Crossover. As to the refund I don't want to jump the gun.
Seriously - use Wine. Don't pay for Crossover. I've used Wine to play STO on my Mac(s) for over 2 years, no real problems at all.
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread, I found that info and started there long ago and never looked back. I've even used the wrapper described in that link for other windows programs. Also maybe http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ can help.
I am just looking for some clarification on their statements about the timing of the refunds. I am going to try to use Wine or Crossover. As to the refund I don't want to jump the gun.
Seriously - use Wine. Don't pay for Crossover. I've used Wine to play STO on my Mac(s) for over 2 years, no real problems at all.
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread, I found that info and started there long ago and never looked back. I've even used the wrapper described in that link for other windows programs. Also maybe http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ can help.
Cool I will look into it... other option id to BootCamp it not sure I want to travel that path
I am just looking for some clarification on their statements about the timing of the refunds. I am going to try to use Wine or Crossover. As to the refund I don't want to jump the gun.
Seriously - use Wine. Don't pay for Crossover. I've used Wine to play STO on my Mac(s) for over 2 years, no real problems at all.
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread, I found that info and started there long ago and never looked back. I've even used the wrapper described in that link for other windows programs. Also maybe http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ can help.
I tried using wine and nearly broke my machine.
Bootcamp isn't an option for me... aside from mainly using my Mac Pro for work, and sometimes needing to tab out of STO to do things, my machine has an optical drive and therefore won't boot from a USB iso or even if I burn an iso onto a CD or DVD. It has to be an official Windows disc... which I'm not prepared to pay for.
What would be useful is if someone who's got STO working in wine was able to do some sort of 'unofficial download' for everyone.
When I looked at WineHQ, there was a lot of negative reviews towards Arc working properly. I will have to take some time and look at this Winebottler a bit.
When I looked at WineHQ, there was a lot of negative reviews towards Arc working properly. I will have to take some time and look at this Winebottler a bit.
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread FIRST.
Comments
What makes you think I'll want to risk playing any of your other titles after being treated like this? Refunds should be complete! Hell, I've sunk more money into this game since the November screwup than I ever had before, simply because you guys went the extra mile to get it working again, and said at the time that there were no plans to kill it off. Besides, none of your other titles support Mac, so how am I supposed to spend the credit?!
ETA: I've just manually cancelled my subscription because it had not been automatically cancelled as claimed in the OP, and was scheduled to renew in 4 days.
"We will be canceling (sic) and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions."
I am not getting that part:
We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions.
Will they cancel my lifetime now? I hope not!
I would like to have an official answer to that, too.
And also for this question:
In case you refund the Zen I've spent to Arc Account balance and not refund it back to my credit card:
a) will I still be able to use my account if I find a PC or Wine solution over the next months? Or will you shut the account down when reimbursed?
b) if I find a working PC or wine solution later on, will I be able to turn the Arc Account value back to ZEN for STO?
I already wrote a mail to support, but no answer yet. Would be great if someone can let us know here in this thread in case he/she already received an answer.
Best solution for me would be: Refund the spent ZEN to my credit card and I buy a gaming laptop with this money. But I don't think they will do it like this. I wonder how much money is involved in all these refunds. Could be a very dangerous step if a few users decide to insist on a full refund. But I'm not a lawyer and expect this to be very difficult.
In the end (just my personal and maybe a bit emotional perspective) I'm trying hard to find a way to still play this game, because I really like it. I fought the last months a lot with it and was optimistic that you will find a solution for Mac users. Okay, sometimes I've been really angry because of a LOT of crashes, but in the end I really appreciated what you do. It's not a game which is in the market since one or two years. It's a BIG thing, because of so many reasons. It's a great community and I play in an AWESOME fleet (STO Academy). The people are great, the content is great, the stories are great, the efforts from everybody behind this institution of Star Trek in general is great. The users and especially the Mac users are the living proof that a strong community will be loyal, even if there are problems.
I connected to the developers regarding the mac client the original quote "Lieutenant, you are looking at the only man to beat the no-win scenario." But I was wrong. Mac Client discontinued. Over and out.
I would like to have an answer to above mentioned questions please. Thank you. And I close with another quote:
“Course heading, Captain?”
Uh, the whole refunding Zen to your Arc balance part. Notice THAT does not say "refund to your credit card or Paypal..." Like the note about subscriptions. If you get Zen refunded to your Arc balance only, but can't play any Arc games.... tell me, what use is it to refund at all?
Subscriptions get refunded (If since October 1st). If none done with a credit card or paypal, it will go to your account balance. (Which will be useless, of course, if you really have no access to a Windows machine or emulator/virtualization, because there are currently no Arc games with Mac Clients.)
Zen purchases (and packs acquired via Arc) go towards the account balance.
Cancelling a subscription does not mean cancelling the account, or deleting characters, or anything like that. (You don't need a subscription to cancel).
They are also saying they are processing this over the next few weeks, so that most likely means that some people will get their refunds sooner, others will get it later. So it's not a sign of anything if an account still is listed as subscribed to STO, or if refunds have not been giving yet - the processing takes time. But if you're in doubt about your account, you will have to ask customer support.
I think people are perfectly justified in looking at this, perfectly comprehending what is happening, and responding with a loud "what the?" anyway.
So I am not going to spam or wail but I do have one major red flag with this refunding challenge - I made Zen purchases to play STO and no other game. I don't care for PWE's or Cryptic's other games. Nor do I care to support Arc because the only reason I use Arc is to play STO. So instead of refunding my money to an account I will be cancelling never use after support ends, instead will PWE/Cryptic make direct refunds - because to be fair, I won't be purchasing a PoC to play STO and as I said I sure as hell won't be supporting Arc past this - there is no cost-benefit to such stupidity.
Please confirm
Thanks for explaining it. Guess the shock, emotion, anger at this news has knocked my sense of rationalisation offline. I shall refrain from saying exactly how i feel about it as i don't want a ban.
I want a refund of all my transactions and my lifetime subscription.
*looking at my Mac Star Trek Online App*
"Second Star to the right...and straight on 'til morning."
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
They already took care of faction story costs by making all new high level episodes shared content.
They already took care of faction ship costs by only creating faction ships that they expect to be profitable. So no science
The difference with the Mac client is that they must keep spending money on it month after month to keep it in sync with the Windows client and the servers. They can't let it sit there cost-free like they can with the KDF faction.
PWE / Cryptic is a business, not a charity. They are not obligated to throw away money literally for your amusement.
Why do Mac users get Zen refunded back to an account balance, if they don't actually have any games to play anymore on ARc, and consequently no use for that Zen?
How can Mac users get refunds in actual currency, rather than virtual currency sitting in their Arc account balance?
I imagine it might be part technical reasons (Zen purchases could be done in a variety of ways, and it might not be possible to track the current balance back to the original credit card or paypal account back), it could be that they just like to keep money they have already gotten. But we can only speculate here.
I think sending an inquiry to customer support would not hurt. I am not affected, so I can't do it, unfortunately.
And expect that it will take time for them to get back to you, because I suspect they might be swamped with such questions. (Unless there really aren't that many Mac users...)
Also be prepared for answers you don't like to hear. For example, I doubt that you would get refunds for all purchases you ever made. The October cut-off point for subscriptions might be something they'd also use for any other type of refund. After all - even if you can't play anymore, you did play for some time, so you got something out of the money you spend. (Hopefuly.)
But the tone-deaf response from PWE/Cryptic/Arc in this situation is the one we should all be worried about. Am I upset that the Mac client is being shut down? Yep. Am I going to buy a PoC just to play this game? Nope. Because here's the cold reality of this situation: the game developers made a financial decision and based on their response so I too will be making a financial decision. See, at this point, whether or not I want to support this company is based on my hardware. No PoC, then no PWE/Cryptic/Arc because whether you refund my money into some ridiculous Arc account is irrelevant - I can't spend the money because you don't support my hardware. So, when I say tone-deaf response, on its face it looks more like stupid tree response. But going back to the financial decisions, I'm not personally hurt by this. To the other Mac players out there, I'd encourage you to adopt this mindset. My life isn't over, nor is yours by not being able to play STO. Yes it sucks but now I'll save some money, PWE/Cryptic/Arc will not get that money and the circle of financial life will continue to turn. And guess what, you'll save your money, PWE/Cryptic/Arc won't get that money and the circle of financial life will continue to turn. Is the Mac developer at PWE/Cryptic/Arc out of a job? Don't know, and frankly, don't care because that has no impact on my gaming life anymore. Is PWE/Cryptic/Arc in financial trouble? See the previous response. This isn't snark, just a cause-effect reaction. If I get my full refund, great. I still can't play the games so this is an amicable split. If I don't get a refund, yes I'm out some money (and that sucks at the moment) but my life isn't over and as far as supporting PWE/Cryptic/Arc on a going forward basis, it just won't happen ever again. And if someone asks me about the game, I can categorically tell them not to play based on this experience. Again, not snark, just a cause-effect reaction.
So in that respect, bon voyage and good luck to the rest of the Captains out there. I've truly enjoyed playing wha I was able to play in the last year and I got to do something I thought I'd never get to do. So thanks PWE/Cryptic/Arc for a nice round of gaming in the last year, and good luck in keeping it together going forward.
Oh and from a public relations note developers, don't be so damned insulting and classless by removing my game platform and then on the same day you send me an email telling me to get excited over a new game that I can't play because I don't have the right platform. It's those kinds of shenanigans that makes you guys look worse than amateurs.
Ending support?
It NEVER worked, it never received updates, it was plagued by bugs, unstable as hell, it had extremely bad audio quality, constant crashing in large open world maps, the worst port that has ever been seen in the whole gaming industry.
So don't tell me you're "ending support". You never did support it: it wasn't even playable on a high range MacBook Pro with a Nvidia 650M at minimum settings, you never listened to all of the performance issues that plagued it since the very beginning, and two years later since its release it had become too much of a struggle to "support it".
I really had a laugh when I read it.
You'll still be able to play STO in your account via another means... Pc or Wine.
It is nice that cryptic is doing the refunds. To me even tho j donot use mac that is better than no refunds.
Not all Mac owners are OS X purists. Many would prefer an OS X client but will switch to Boot Camp, Parallels or WINE when necessary. They do not have a way to separate the purists from the pragmatic.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
On point, I don't see any purpose in going on a rant outside of it maybe making me feel good about myself for sticking it to the man in text format. And I've seen plenty of rants already in this thread so I'll let others are for me. It's just that for me, ranting doesn't hit the core of the argument and probably takes away from it which is why I try to make such reasonable points.
Oh and I'm not an OS X purist, it's just that I made a choice to use this hardware fully recognizing the limitations of the machine in the gaming world. Though to be fair, that's not why I bought my Mac in the first place and putting on things like boot camp, parallels or WINE aren't in the cards because the room they take up can be used for more important applications from my non-gaming life.
Seriously - use Wine. Don't pay for Crossover. I've used Wine to play STO on my Mac(s) for over 2 years, no real problems at all.
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread, I found that info and started there long ago and never looked back. I've even used the wrapper described in that link for other windows programs. Also maybe http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ can help.
Cool I will look into it... other option id to BootCamp it not sure I want to travel that path
I tried using wine and nearly broke my machine.
Bootcamp isn't an option for me... aside from mainly using my Mac Pro for work, and sometimes needing to tab out of STO to do things, my machine has an optical drive and therefore won't boot from a USB iso or even if I burn an iso onto a CD or DVD. It has to be an official Windows disc... which I'm not prepared to pay for.
What would be useful is if someone who's got STO working in wine was able to do some sort of 'unofficial download' for everyone.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Check out the link in psycoticvulcan's post on page 2 of this thread FIRST.