Well I guess I'm glad I didn't spend my money and get the 4 ships I wanted to buy.
To the person who was upset about the 24 hour notice and the other that "corrected" him, they DID only give 24 hour notice. The are shutting down the c-store at 12am pst. That means you're screwed unless you do something today and even then, you prolly won't get to keep it. I have been a MAC user for 6 years and it astounds me the bigotry against macs for games. This is the ONLY MMO I have ever played and love playing. Now I have to decide to either Wine it, go blow hundreds of dollars on a good enough pc, or live without STO.
Well played PWE, CRYPTIC, AND STO....... WELL FREAKING PLAYED!!!!!!
it astounds me the bigotry against macs for games.
It costs as much or more to hire a Mac developer as a Windows developer. For 1 / 15th the users. It's economics not bigotry.
Would you be happy to pay an extra (say) $15 a month surcharge to keep the Mac client updated? Most Mac users will say no, they still want a F2P game with the same C-Store prices that Windows users pay.
Mac users are apparently not paying anywhere near enough to cover the costs. PWE decided it was cheaper to refund every ship purchase and subscription than to keep paying for Mac developers. It was logic, not anti-Mac bias.
Keep in mind the desktop OS market share is currently around 6% OS X vs. 92% Windows. That means 15 Windows players for each Mac player. Each developer they pay to work on the Mac version instead of the Windows version returns 1 / 15th the value.
Market share isn't terribly representative of desktop share, though. Last I knew, Windows users replaced their machines about 2.5x more frequently than Mac users, which increases the market share considerably, but not the number of users. (Of course, this also means that supporting Macs means supporting older hardware.) And of course traditionally, Mac users tend to be more willing to spend money, which matters quite a bit for the F2P model.
Which is not to say that Mac users aren't a small percentage of the user base. Still, Blizzard was able to build and maintain a true native Mac client for every game until Overwatch, and presumably would not have done so if it wasn't profitable.
Yeah, Mac has been getting worse over the years, not better. It looks like the newer versions of Mac just aren't useful for computer games.
Yeah, Mac has been getting worse over the years, not better. It looks like the newer versions of Mac just aren't useful for computer games.
I'd disagree strongly with the first part. In many ways, they've been getting better year after year. They are still by far my preferred machine for both work and home use. They've just been getting worse for gaming specifically over the past few years.
If I switch to a Boot Camp setup, and boot natively into Windows... will I be affected? Or will I need to change anything in my account?
A Mac running Boot Camp ias as much a Windows machine as a Dell.
I know that.
I just don't want my account deactivated, or whatever. @pwlaughingtrendy, do I have anything to worry about? (Yes, I already emailed Support.)
I would hope that anyone who logs into the game with the Windows client wouldn't have their account refunded and closed automatically. Hopefully this will be clarified.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system and lack of funds my end to change OS
Yeah, Mac has been getting worse over the years, not better. It looks like the newer versions of Mac just aren't useful for computer games.
I'd disagree strongly with the first part. In many ways, they've been getting better year after year. They are still by far my preferred machine for both work and home use. They've just been getting worse for gaming specifically over the past few years.
The big issue with Mac is they prefer form over function to an extent. Most Macs have issues with Thermal Throttling, which is basically they downclock the CPU to prevent it from getting too hot, which might damage it. Some models are also deficient in the GPU department. Both of these are likely not major issues for productivity apps, but can be problematic for Games. You can help the thermal throttling issue by coming up with some external cooling solution for the unit.
I've played STO on my Mac(s) for over two years just fine.
Long ago I found the link(s) referred to by psycoticvulcan (page 2 in this thread) and have never looked back.
I keep the Wine engine and Wine wrapper updated as needed on my Mac(s) and the experience in STO is always great.
I have even configured/run STO through the arc launcher via Wine.
Check it out. It can be done. Yes it takes some effort, or buy parallels, or use boot camp. Lots of choices.
I offer another link: http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system.
Sad sad day
If it's a legal copy of Windows you could do the free upgrade to Windows 10.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system.
Sad sad day
If it's a legal copy of Windows you could do the free upgrade to Windows 10.
This mac only support windows 7 or lower according to bootcamp.
Also did i read right any zen will be refunded to the Arc acc. Is this the acc to use on other games which i don't play or actual refund to my bank ?
I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner, the mac client was problematic from the outset and i give cryptic props for trying to keep it working , well get it to work as intended.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system.
Sad sad day
If it's a legal copy of Windows you could do the free upgrade to Windows 10.
This mac only support windows 7 or lower according to bootcamp.
Also did i read right any zen will be refunded to the Arc acc. Is this the acc to use on other games which i don't play or actual refund to my bank ?
We've got a pretty big community here, and it would be a sad day to lose a player. I'm sure any number of folks here can help you work it out on WINE. I don't know WINE or Mac especially, but I'm happy to help you with Windows issues if I can. Let me know.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system and lack of funds my end to change OS
Sad sad day
I am sorry, but i am currently using Windows 7 PC with mouse and keyboard trough USB 3.0. If what you say is true, i should not be able to post. Please blame the ridiculous, overpriced Apple product that you are using, and not the windows software.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system and lack of funds my end to change OS
Sad sad day
I am sorry, but i am currently using Windows 7 PC with mouse and keyboard trough USB 3.0. If what you say is true, i should not be able to post. Please blame the ridiculous, overpriced Apple product that you are using, and not the windows software.
i'm not blaming windows. i said window 7 only supports 2.0 on install and i can't for the life of me get the drivers for 3.0 to install to make my keyboard/mouse work to get past the welcome to windows start up screen.
Maybe a trip to trip to Apple with the machine will help. As asking them for off the cuff advice is like getting blood from a stone
Fact of the matter is that when Perfect World bought Cryptic, they've been running it by bean counter logic ever since. The decline of the Mac client pretty much dates from the merger.
The Mac client wasn't even introduced until 3 years after PWE purchased Cryptic.
Here's some food-for-thought: Mac would be a great operating system overall if it wasn't for Steve Job's paranoia and forcing the platform on hardware that is proprietary and subpar. It's a shame that this has to be done, but with everything being so severely closed-source I can understand the move behind it.
Nope, Windows is Subpar due to easily hackers, worms, virus, and other bad stuff to ruin your day. This was the reason why I went to Mac. I don't need any protection, hadn't ran any since the early 2000s.
Don't forget that famous OS Windows came out with. So bad that the customers was "upgrading" to older software cause it was more reliable.
Clearly you've bought into the usual lies that arrogant Mac-Users believe. Only reason why Windows is targeted is because of how wide-spread it is from the get-go. Not until a couple years ago have hackers begun targeting OS-X and the iOS platforms, and their security track-record has been horrendous. How's that Apple-Koolaid tasting?
Next time do your homework before spouting-off nonsense.
I see your still drinking Windows-Kooliad.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I don't want my account refunded/cancelled ect. i want to play STO however despite having a copy of windows 7 i cannot install the drivers to make a keyboard or mouse work as this mac uses usb 3.0 and windows 7 only supports 2.0. I spent over a week during the season 11 downtime trying to get it working.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system.
Sad sad day
If it's a legal copy of Windows you could do the free upgrade to Windows 10.
This mac only support windows 7 or lower according to bootcamp.
Also did i read right any zen will be refunded to the Arc acc. Is this the acc to use on other games which i don't play or actual refund to my bank ?
We've got a pretty big community here, and it would be a sad day to lose a player. I'm sure any number of folks here can help you work it out on WINE. I don't know WINE or Mac especially, but I'm happy to help you with Windows issues if I can. Let me know.
I had wine installed but accidentally deleted it. Would prefer not to use it but if it works it's a solution Thanks
If I switch to a Boot Camp setup, and boot natively into Windows... will I be affected? Or will I need to change anything in my account?
No it shouldn't effect it as you will still play as you will be using Windows on your Mac. This is how I been playing it all this time anyways. As I knew the Mac version was still being tested. Plus my IMac is outdated to where I wouldn't be able to use it on the Mac platform to start with. With the age of my IMac, most will be surprised I can still play.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Check it out. It can be done. Yes it takes some effort, or buy parallels, or use boot camp. Lots of choices.
I offer another link: http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/[/quote]
I am downloading from the link you provided above. What do I need to do now?
Well I guess I'm glad I didn't spend my money and get the 4 ships I wanted to buy.
To the person who was upset about the 24 hour notice and the other that "corrected" him, they DID only give 24 hour notice. The are shutting down the c-store at 12am pst. That means you're screwed unless you do something today and even then, you prolly won't get to keep it. I have been a MAC user for 6 years and it astounds me the bigotry against macs for games. This is the ONLY MMO I have ever played and love playing. Now I have to decide to either Wine it, go blow hundreds of dollars on a good enough pc, or live without STO.
Well played PWE, CRYPTIC, AND STO.......
WELL FREAKING PLAYED!!!!!!
Go to Bootcamp, Wine is an App. Where Bootcamp was created by Apple to use Windows. So therefor its better set up for your Mac to run more efficiently.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Keep in mind the desktop OS market share is currently around 6% OS X vs. 92% Windows. That means 15 Windows players for each Mac player. Each developer they pay to work on the Mac version instead of the Windows version returns 1 / 15th the value.
This maybe the case, however, the statistics do not also show the relationship between office/work and domestic usage.
either way, the battle is not who is better, or who has more user. The issue is that many STO players are being shunted and the feeling is of an overwhelming waste of time and effort.
Yes there are options, but some people won't want to bootcamp, because they won't want to buy windows, and don't believe they should, and others won't know how to use wine etc, but most of all, why should be when yes the mac client is unreliable, but back my original point, STO players are in it for visual quality or fast paced action. if that was what we were after we'd play CoD or ESO etc. We play because we love STO, the community and immersion in trek.
I am personally very saddened, not because of the money, that was a choice i made because of my love for STO, what makes me very sad is that lost time playing it, and how far I had come to achieving builds I have been working, and all the general effort, like 12 hours farming particles, and now it is (...or rather, it feels) completely pointless to continue.
Yes I may bootcamp at some point, but I have no idea when I will be able too. So do hang on in the void of no STO until then, but, although no official communication seems to have been issued, my assumption is that if I seek a refund, then my account will be closed, and I will loose everything I have worked soon hard for. If I then decide to rejoin, I will have to start from scratch all over again, and means non of the freebie specials, and none of my c-store stuff, which is awful being a subscription user too.
This is sad because at some point I may be able to boot camp, or I might not, literally left in balance with no idea what is best. And the saddest thing of all is- PWE / Cryptic don't care.
What PWE could do, which may actually be cheaper, is offer to provide Windows for mac user to boot camp with, compared to the cost of refunds, this maybe cheaper, and then players will get to keep their c-store stuff. They are going to pay out anyway, my subscription and zen purchases since the 1st of Oct will be quite bit more than £200, probably nearer 300.
PWE, offer to provide downloads for windows, you can probably buy in bulk for a discount too!
I downloaded CrossOver 15.0.1 from Codeweavers (this is a for-pay supported version of Wine with a 15-day trial). It turned out to have direct support for installing Arc, and it successfully installed the Arc client, installed the STO sub-launcher, and downloaded a fresh copy of the STO client (I didn't try to fool it by copying files, though this would probably be possible).
There is a *long* delay at the initial game loading screen (about 15-20 minutes), which I believe afflicts all the Wine variants running STO. The game did eventually launch and run fairly well after I turned the graphics settings down to the same levels I used on the Mac STO client. This long delay does *not* happen on subsequent launches.
The only significant issue I saw was some transient graphics glitching at times, mostly when I first entered a zone, but the game was otherwise about as playable as the regular Mac client has been.
The main drawback to CrossOver is the cost ($60 for the first year, $30 per year after), which pays for updates as they come out. You can also buy it cheaper without future update support, or you can use one of the various free versions of Wine. The drawback to the free versions, at least when I tried a couple of them, is that they either didn't simply work out of the box, or seemed to need a lot of finicky tweaking which I didn't feel like doing. So it's a time/money tradeoff.
Hopefully someone can post a walkthrough of installing Arc/STO in the free Wine versions here for the people who want to go that route.
What PWE could do, which may actually be cheaper, is offer to provide Windows for mac user to boot camp with
Unfortunately some of us don't have room for a whole Bootcamp Windows install (I'm on a Macbook with an SSD which is mostly full already).
In my case, I also don't want to have to deal with managing an active Windows machine in the house. The Wine installations are less trouble, since you don't need to deal with most of the security management, though you still do need to update them.
As a Windows user my hope is that dropping Mac support will allow them to fix the crashing issues on the Windows side since there will now only be one version of the client instead of trying to support two.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Keep in mind the desktop OS market share is currently around 6% OS X vs. 92% Windows. That means 15 Windows players for each Mac player. Each developer they pay to work on the Mac version instead of the Windows version returns 1 / 15th the value.
This maybe the case, however, the statistics do not also show the relationship between office/work and domestic usage.
either way, the battle is not who is better, or who has more user. The issue is that many STO players are being shunted and the feeling is of an overwhelming waste of time and effort.
... And the saddest thing of all is- PWE / Cryptic don't care.
It's not that they don't care, even if you paint them as heartless Ferengi then it will hurt them to give you back your money.
Apparently they are losing enough money on Mac players because of the development costs that giving refunds, losing players and taking the PR hit is less painful to them than continuing.
They tried the Mac client, it didn't pay for itself, they are stopping the Mac client. It's not about Windows being better, it's about Windows players paying for themselves while Mac users as a group do not pay in enough.
Comments
I know that.
I just don't want my account deactivated, or whatever. @pwlaughingtrendy, do I have anything to worry about? (Yes, I already emailed Support.)
To the person who was upset about the 24 hour notice and the other that "corrected" him, they DID only give 24 hour notice. The are shutting down the c-store at 12am pst. That means you're screwed unless you do something today and even then, you prolly won't get to keep it. I have been a MAC user for 6 years and it astounds me the bigotry against macs for games. This is the ONLY MMO I have ever played and love playing. Now I have to decide to either Wine it, go blow hundreds of dollars on a good enough pc, or live without STO.
Well played PWE, CRYPTIC, AND STO.......
WELL FREAKING PLAYED!!!!!!
It costs as much or more to hire a Mac developer as a Windows developer. For 1 / 15th the users. It's economics not bigotry.
Would you be happy to pay an extra (say) $15 a month surcharge to keep the Mac client updated? Most Mac users will say no, they still want a F2P game with the same C-Store prices that Windows users pay.
Mac users are apparently not paying anywhere near enough to cover the costs. PWE decided it was cheaper to refund every ship purchase and subscription than to keep paying for Mac developers. It was logic, not anti-Mac bias.
My character Tsin'xing
I'd disagree strongly with the first part. In many ways, they've been getting better year after year. They are still by far my preferred machine for both work and home use. They've just been getting worse for gaming specifically over the past few years.
I would hope that anyone who logs into the game with the Windows client wouldn't have their account refunded and closed automatically. Hopefully this will be clarified.
A sad sad day as this is my favourite pastime and i've been playing over 5 years with a LTS. looks like you're going to lose a customer due to no longer supporting my operating system and lack of funds my end to change OS
Sad sad day
The big issue with Mac is they prefer form over function to an extent. Most Macs have issues with Thermal Throttling, which is basically they downclock the CPU to prevent it from getting too hot, which might damage it. Some models are also deficient in the GPU department. Both of these are likely not major issues for productivity apps, but can be problematic for Games. You can help the thermal throttling issue by coming up with some external cooling solution for the unit.
Long ago I found the link(s) referred to by psycoticvulcan (page 2 in this thread) and have never looked back.
I keep the Wine engine and Wine wrapper updated as needed on my Mac(s) and the experience in STO is always great.
I have even configured/run STO through the arc launcher via Wine.
Check it out. It can be done. Yes it takes some effort, or buy parallels, or use boot camp. Lots of choices.
I offer another link:
http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If it's a legal copy of Windows you could do the free upgrade to Windows 10.
This mac only support windows 7 or lower according to bootcamp.
Also did i read right any zen will be refunded to the Arc acc. Is this the acc to use on other games which i don't play or actual refund to my bank ?
We've got a pretty big community here, and it would be a sad day to lose a player. I'm sure any number of folks here can help you work it out on WINE. I don't know WINE or Mac especially, but I'm happy to help you with Windows issues if I can. Let me know.
I am sorry, but i am currently using Windows 7 PC with mouse and keyboard trough USB 3.0. If what you say is true, i should not be able to post. Please blame the ridiculous, overpriced Apple product that you are using, and not the windows software.
i'm not blaming windows. i said window 7 only supports 2.0 on install and i can't for the life of me get the drivers for 3.0 to install to make my keyboard/mouse work to get past the welcome to windows start up screen.
Maybe a trip to trip to Apple with the machine will help. As asking them for off the cuff advice is like getting blood from a stone
The Mac client wasn't even introduced until 3 years after PWE purchased Cryptic.
I see your still drinking Windows-Kooliad.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I had wine installed but accidentally deleted it. Would prefer not to use it but if it works it's a solution Thanks
No it shouldn't effect it as you will still play as you will be using Windows on your Mac. This is how I been playing it all this time anyways. As I knew the Mac version was still being tested. Plus my IMac is outdated to where I wouldn't be able to use it on the Mac platform to start with. With the age of my IMac, most will be surprised I can still play.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Check it out. It can be done. Yes it takes some effort, or buy parallels, or use boot camp. Lots of choices.
I offer another link:
http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/[/quote]
I am downloading from the link you provided above. What do I need to do now?
Go to Bootcamp, Wine is an App. Where Bootcamp was created by Apple to use Windows. So therefor its better set up for your Mac to run more efficiently.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This maybe the case, however, the statistics do not also show the relationship between office/work and domestic usage.
either way, the battle is not who is better, or who has more user. The issue is that many STO players are being shunted and the feeling is of an overwhelming waste of time and effort.
Yes there are options, but some people won't want to bootcamp, because they won't want to buy windows, and don't believe they should, and others won't know how to use wine etc, but most of all, why should be when yes the mac client is unreliable, but back my original point, STO players are in it for visual quality or fast paced action. if that was what we were after we'd play CoD or ESO etc. We play because we love STO, the community and immersion in trek.
I am personally very saddened, not because of the money, that was a choice i made because of my love for STO, what makes me very sad is that lost time playing it, and how far I had come to achieving builds I have been working, and all the general effort, like 12 hours farming particles, and now it is (...or rather, it feels) completely pointless to continue.
Yes I may bootcamp at some point, but I have no idea when I will be able too. So do hang on in the void of no STO until then, but, although no official communication seems to have been issued, my assumption is that if I seek a refund, then my account will be closed, and I will loose everything I have worked soon hard for. If I then decide to rejoin, I will have to start from scratch all over again, and means non of the freebie specials, and none of my c-store stuff, which is awful being a subscription user too.
This is sad because at some point I may be able to boot camp, or I might not, literally left in balance with no idea what is best. And the saddest thing of all is- PWE / Cryptic don't care.
PWE, offer to provide downloads for windows, you can probably buy in bulk for a discount too!
There is a *long* delay at the initial game loading screen (about 15-20 minutes), which I believe afflicts all the Wine variants running STO. The game did eventually launch and run fairly well after I turned the graphics settings down to the same levels I used on the Mac STO client. This long delay does *not* happen on subsequent launches.
The only significant issue I saw was some transient graphics glitching at times, mostly when I first entered a zone, but the game was otherwise about as playable as the regular Mac client has been.
The main drawback to CrossOver is the cost ($60 for the first year, $30 per year after), which pays for updates as they come out. You can also buy it cheaper without future update support, or you can use one of the various free versions of Wine. The drawback to the free versions, at least when I tried a couple of them, is that they either didn't simply work out of the box, or seemed to need a lot of finicky tweaking which I didn't feel like doing. So it's a time/money tradeoff.
Hopefully someone can post a walkthrough of installing Arc/STO in the free Wine versions here for the people who want to go that route.
Unfortunately some of us don't have room for a whole Bootcamp Windows install (I'm on a Macbook with an SSD which is mostly full already).
In my case, I also don't want to have to deal with managing an active Windows machine in the house. The Wine installations are less trouble, since you don't need to deal with most of the security management, though you still do need to update them.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
It's not that they don't care, even if you paint them as heartless Ferengi then it will hurt them to give you back your money.
Apparently they are losing enough money on Mac players because of the development costs that giving refunds, losing players and taking the PR hit is less painful to them than continuing.
They tried the Mac client, it didn't pay for itself, they are stopping the Mac client. It's not about Windows being better, it's about Windows players paying for themselves while Mac users as a group do not pay in enough.