I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
They probably downloaded the sensor data from the Kelvin.
Possibly... It's not impossible, that they would do so, rather than simply getting out of the area, but for such a major plot point, it should certainly have been explained properly onscreen, a bit like all the convoluted Countdown and other comics required to make the plot (almost) run straight...
I say 'almost', because if Nero and his crew where captured by the Klingons, they should have all just killed themselves to attain the Final Honor (or lived to return to the Empire to warn them of the upcoming disaster) not just go on a loony quest for revenge, but hey, it's JJTrek, it doesn't have to make sense as long as there's the PewPew and Uhura and an Orion girl in their underoos
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
Emergency beacon dump right before he set ramming course... pretty typical in Trek, and they're treated like black boxes. So itd have all the data
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
I guess, I just don't like having to rely on supposition for such a major plot point to actually make sense, when other stuff is so directly referenced...
Wait... someone paid $20 for a ticket? ONE TICKET? WTF! Was it in frickin IMAX 3D or something? Costs a little less than HALF that to go see a movie on a normal screen at the theater I go to. Especially at Matinee screenings.
Out-of-universe you also have to consider that Abrams never watched Star Trek, but always wanted to do Star Wars (which he did great, btw, Episode VII was a truly good movie IMO). What I see in "JJ-Trek", everywhere, from costumes to ships to interiors, is "Star Wars" everywhere. The hallways of the ships look exactly like the interior of Captain Antilles' correlian corvette in Episode IV and almost everything looked like it used Star Wars as an inspiration rather than the Star Trek that existed before.
The now doomed Axanar, as much of an debacle as it turned out to be, used JJ-Trek designs and refitted them to "TOS visuals" in their "prelude to Axanar" short. You should watch this, it actually looks plausible and I could see those designs being actual pre-TOS era Starfleet ships (they essentially gave the ships TOS nacelles and "smoothed" some of the lumps).
The difference in general visuals prior to the Narada incident can only be explained out-of-universe. It's simple costume differences, like TOS and TMP Klingons - remember, Rodenberry said Klingons always looked like in TMP but they simply hadn't had the budget. That's all explanation you need - forget about "augment virus" nonsense that doesn't make sense and insult ones intelligence as a "explanation" for different costumes in different eras, because you cannot actually say you prefer a kick to the head like that over simply accept the shows and movies as pieces of fiction that naturally undergoes some changes visually. JJ-Trek Klingons also look vastly different and that cannot be an effect of the NArada going back if everything was the same up to this point.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Wait... someone paid $20 for a ticket? ONE TICKET? WTF! Was it in frickin IMAX 3D or something? Costs a little less than HALF that to go see a movie on a normal screen at the theater I go to. Especially at Matinee screenings.
I actually haven't been to a cinema in years... Not even for Alice Eve in her smalls
Out-of-universe you also have to consider that Abrams never watched Star Trek, but always wanted to do Star Wars (which he did great, btw, Episode VII was a truly good movie IMO). What I see in "JJ-Trek", everywhere, from costumes to ships to interiors, is "Star Wars" everywhere. The hallways of the ships look exactly like the interior of Captain Antilles' correlian corvette in Episode IV and almost everything looked like it used Star Wars as an inspiration rather than the Star Trek that existed before.
The now doomed Axanar, as much of an debacle as it turned out to be, used JJ-Trek designs and refitted them to "TOS visuals" in their "prelude to Axanar" short. You should watch this, it actually looks plausible and I could see those designs being actual pre-TOS era Starfleet ships (they essentially gave the ships TOS nacelles and "smoothed" some of the lumps).
The difference in general visuals prior to the Narada incident can only be explained out-of-universe. It's simple costume differences, like TOS and TMP Klingons - remember, Rodenberry said Klingons always looked like in TMP but they simply hadn't had the budget. That's all explanation you need - forget about "augment virus" nonsense that doesn't make sense and insult ones intelligence as a "explanation" for different costumes in different eras, because you cannot actually say you prefer a kick to the head like that over simply accept the shows and movies as pieces of fiction that naturally undergoes some changes visually. JJ-Trek Klingons also look vastly different and that cannot be an effect of the NArada going back if everything was the same up to this point.
I could accept that if Star Trek 09 was a Kickstarter films, where it truly was one man's creative vision, but there were folks other than JJ working on it, and they had to know what the look of Star Trek was, even if he didn't. The duty uniforms, for example, were near-identical to the originals, certainly closer than the styling of the ships... I'm not sure if I can believe the above anecdote about JJ threatening the designers with being fired, because I don't know how despotic JJ is (I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying I'd need to know more about his attitudes and behaviour as a director before fully believing it) The story I was told about the designs being because a full license of the Ip was not granted, while no more plausible, would at least make sense as to why there the basic form of the ship is there, but enough differences to be considered unique designs... As for the Klingons, I don't actually see too much difference... All that was seen, was one unmasked Klingon, whose ridges while certainly less pronounced than some Klingon's, still as notable as Worf's (as in the Worf who defended Kirk and McCoy) and who had very blue eyes (maybe only half-Klingon...) The piercings, I considered an incongruously fetishistic style choice, rather than 'tribal', because they were being sported by a military officer, and most militaries prohibit body piercings as a health and safety concern. I know, alien culture, alien codes. Had it been a civilian Klingon, a Klingon 'Punk on a bus' ( ) then fine. On serving personnel, no... That the Romulans in 09 had smooth foreheads, well, so did the Romulans of the TOS era... If the smooth heads had become a less desirable caste in the Empire, in would make sense for the miners (which considering that was work only fit for Remans and Human boys ) to be in that under-class, and thinking about it, would make sense why Nero then wanted to exact personal revenge, rather than warning an empire which had kept 'his people down' as an under-class...
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
What if! the Klingons got a hold of that data when they captured Nero and crew, and Section 31 later infiltrated the Klingon Empire and got it back.
Wait... someone paid $20 for a ticket? ONE TICKET? WTF! Was it in frickin IMAX 3D or something? Costs a little less than HALF that to go see a movie on a normal screen at the theater I go to. Especially at Matinee screenings.
no, imax 3D is another 20 on top of that. Matinee, sure thats like $12 iirc for an adult
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
When I was in the Navy my "Abandon ship" job was to smash all the GPS's and collect all the logs and put them in a life boat. I imagine that the minute a Federation vessel declares abandon ship a duplicate log is sent to all the escape pods.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
What if! the Klingons got a hold of that data when they captured Nero and crew, and Section 31 later infiltrated the Klingon Empire and got it back.
What "data" are you suggesting the Klingons "got a hold" of? They had the actual ship(Narada) for years. They didn't need scans from the Kelvin.
Wait... someone paid $20 for a ticket? ONE TICKET? WTF! Was it in frickin IMAX 3D or something? Costs a little less than HALF that to go see a movie on a normal screen at the theater I go to. Especially at Matinee screenings.
It might have been the combined cost for both the first two alt-U movies. He mentioned things from both films.
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
When I was in the Navy my "Abandon ship" job was to smash all the GPS's and collect all the logs and put them in a life boat. I imagine that the minute a Federation vessel declares abandon ship a duplicate log is sent to all the escape pods.
Interesting... Certainly makes the idea of transfering the logs as probable
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
Yes, the idea that the Kelvin crew brought scans is pretty much the inVerse explanation. I find it questionable if the shuttles which had the priority of evacuating the area would have been able to take such detailed scans, but that's another issue entirely
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
What if! the Klingons got a hold of that data when they captured Nero and crew, and Section 31 later infiltrated the Klingon Empire and got it back.
What "data" are you suggesting the Klingons "got a hold" of? They had the actual ship(Narada) for years. They didn't need scans from the Kelvin.
I... don't know. I think I was processing without coffee this morning. Just pretend there was data. Sweet, sweet data.
It isn't totally improbable that one of the things that Kirk Sr. did while directing the Kelvin into the Narada, was have all the remaining available sensor readings, sent to the shuttles data banks.
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
When I was in the Navy my "Abandon ship" job was to smash all the GPS's and collect all the logs and put them in a life boat. I imagine that the minute a Federation vessel declares abandon ship a duplicate log is sent to all the escape pods.
Interesting... Certainly makes the idea of transfering the logs as probable
But they don't. There's nothing about that one helmetless individual that would look out of place in TNG beyond the ridge piercings.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
However, in the prime-verse it could very well have been the Enterprise's presence with Cochrane that ended up with nacelle shapes being different for the Kelvin vs. TOS in prime...
I'm gonna have to point out that the Kelvin was like 20 something years BEFORE TOS. So already there's a hole in that. And since technically the Kelvin existed before the Narada altered the timeline, the design of the Kelvin also exists in the Prime Universe. Its possible that maybe in the Prime Universe the Kelvin type was upgraded to TOS specs, but the fact remains that she was preexisting and older than the Connie. The fact we never saw any Kelvin types in TOS is because of budget in the show. Back then the only other Federation ships we saw were other Connies. It wasn't until Wrath of Khan that we "officially" saw a new class of Fed ship.
*sighs*
There's no hole.
Cochrane's Phoenix is the branching point for the warp engines, not the Narada.
Without the TNG prime-universe pollution, we get the bulkier JJ-verse nacelles.
I heard that the design of the Enterprise (in universe) was influenced by the Kelvin crew bringing back scan data of the Narada, and they used that to reverse engineer some more advanced tech, hence why we had a ship with that PCAPS system similar to 24th Century LCARS.
It's not about the Enterprise, but the Kelvin, who at introduction was radically different than the NX-01 to TOS transition ships we're familiar with in the regular prime-verse
I believe the episode ended on the revelation that they were already on course for Earth. This can be explained in-verse by either i) picking up the signal sent from Enterprise, or, information gained from the assimilation of the Hansens, or a combination of the two, given that the Hansens were studying the Borg, without really knowing who/what they were, presumably based on half-seen sensor readings/stories from outer-rim colonies... That the writers were able to tie it up all into a neat predestination paradox, doesn't change the fact that from their first appearance, the Borg were introduced as 'already on their way'...
As the Narada's re-entry into the timeline occurred significantly after the events of First Contact, that in itself negates the theory that Picard and co influenced the timeline of the JJVerse, as Geordi specifically noted that they had the specs of the Phoenix in the Enterprise computer. Any work he and his team did in repairing the ship, would have been 'period accurate restoration work', not in any way improved upon, because they would have known that what they were doing, would wind up in the Smithsonian and receive mass scrutiny. The JJPrise had those crazy nacelles proportions (according to the supplementary material) because after the destruction of the Kelvin, Starfleet started to build 'bigger and better' so they could present a more robust face to the galaxy. Everything seen in First Contact and Enterprise, was still in the past of the JJVerse and the PrimeVerse. The point of divergence, is solely the presence of the Nerada... I have heard (purely hearsay) that JJ wasn't given a full licence for the ships, only the names, hence why the designs, including the Kelvin were all different to existing designs, but because that's only something I was told, I can't prove it, or insist that it be considered as hard fact...
Once again -- it's not the Enterprise I'm talking about, but the Kelvin.
Let me spell this out -- I didn't say that Geordi did *non cochrane spec* work -- re-read what I typed.
What I typed was that Geordi, Picard, et al. polluted the timeline *WITH COCHRANE* they didn't remove his memories, his experiences, etc. when they left.
What do you think would happen if you went back in time and "helped" the Wright Brothers, or Da Vinci get to their standard specs...what kind of pollution do you think you could do to the timeline *SIMPLY BY ILLUSTRATING WHAT CAN BE DONE*
It's the very definition of Prime Directive interference, not handing over advanced technology, but *exposing* to advanced technology, explaining what *can be done*
You do that with a man like Cochrane on the level of Orville and Wilbur caliber inventiveness, they are going to figure stuff out differently going forward than if they were sitting around thinking it up cold...they wouldn't give up on a difficult avenue of advancement in their goals. Are they going to invent jet engines? No. But are they going to look harder at employing elevators in their designs early on? If you flew past Kitty Hawk in a turn, low and slow, in a Spitfire...what would they glean from that?
I don't think you can dismiss the polluting influence the TNG crew had on Cochrane the man...it has nothing to do with their work on the Phoenix, or any other hard future tech they didn't leave behind...they opened up his mind to not just warp engines of the future, but a future he hadn't fully contemplated his own impact on.
Speaking of tech-pollutions. Remember Kelvin have 800 in crew.... If timeline split AFTER Kelvin incident, how in the world should Connie, launched in 2240s have like 430? When a smaller ship merely 20-30 years ago have 800...
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
I believe the episode ended on the revelation that they were already on course for Earth. This can be explained in-verse by either i) picking up the signal sent from Enterprise, or, information gained from the assimilation of the Hansens, or a combination of the two, given that the Hansens were studying the Borg, without really knowing who/what they were, presumably based on half-seen sensor readings/stories from outer-rim colonies... That the writers were able to tie it up all into a neat predestination paradox, doesn't change the fact that from their first appearance, the Borg were introduced as 'already on their way'...
As the Narada's re-entry into the timeline occurred significantly after the events of First Contact, that in itself negates the theory that Picard and co influenced the timeline of the JJVerse, as Geordi specifically noted that they had the specs of the Phoenix in the Enterprise computer. Any work he and his team did in repairing the ship, would have been 'period accurate restoration work', not in any way improved upon, because they would have known that what they were doing, would wind up in the Smithsonian and receive mass scrutiny. The JJPrise had those crazy nacelles proportions (according to the supplementary material) because after the destruction of the Kelvin, Starfleet started to build 'bigger and better' so they could present a more robust face to the galaxy. Everything seen in First Contact and Enterprise, was still in the past of the JJVerse and the PrimeVerse. The point of divergence, is solely the presence of the Nerada... I have heard (purely hearsay) that JJ wasn't given a full licence for the ships, only the names, hence why the designs, including the Kelvin were all different to existing designs, but because that's only something I was told, I can't prove it, or insist that it be considered as hard fact...
Once again -- it's not the Enterprise I'm talking about, but the Kelvin.
Let me spell this out -- I didn't say that Geordi did *non cochrane spec* work -- re-read what I typed.
What I typed was that Geordi, Picard, et al. polluted the timeline *WITH COCHRANE* they didn't remove his memories, his experiences, etc. when they left.
What do you think would happen if you went back in time and "helped" the Wright Brothers, or Da Vinci get to their standard specs...what kind of pollution do you think you could do to the timeline *SIMPLY BY ILLUSTRATING WHAT CAN BE DONE*
It's the very definition of Prime Directive interference, not handing over advanced technology, but *exposing* to advanced technology, explaining what *can be done*
You do that with a man like Cochrane on the level of Orville and Wilbur caliber inventiveness, they are going to figure stuff out differently going forward than if they were sitting around thinking it up cold...they wouldn't give up on a difficult avenue of advancement in their goals. Are they going to invent jet engines? No. But are they going to look harder at employing elevators in their designs early on? If you flew past Kitty Hawk in a turn, low and slow, in a Spitfire...what would they glean from that?
I don't think you can dismiss the polluting influence the TNG crew had on Cochrane the man...it has nothing to do with their work on the Phoenix, or any other hard future tech they didn't leave behind...they opened up his mind to not just warp engines of the future, but a future he hadn't fully contemplated his own impact on.
Ahh, I see the point you're making, thank you for clarifying The answer to that, with regards timeline polution, comes from something Archer said in Regeneration about an address Cochrane made... Groundbreaking discovery asside, Cochrane was viewed as an eccentric drunk, and most of what he said outside of engineering specifics, was never taken seriously. I'm more inclined to believe that time either flowed around and resettled after any poluting incidents, or it was a predestination paradox, because the time Picard and co returned to, was no different than the time they departed.
Speaking of tech-pollutions. Remember Kelvin have 800 in crew.... If timeline split AFTER Kelvin incident, how in the world should Connie, launched in 2240s have like 430? When a smaller ship merely 20-30 years ago have 800...
Pike says that Kirk's father saved 800 lives. If you factor in that George Kirk had his pregnant wife with him...it could be extrapolated that some of that 800 were family. Family wouldnt have been present on the Enterprise in the Star Trek and probably not in STID...since thy were going off on a primarily military mission.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Speaking of tech-pollutions. Remember Kelvin have 800 in crew.... If timeline split AFTER Kelvin incident, how in the world should Connie, launched in 2240s have like 430? When a smaller ship merely 20-30 years ago have 800...
Pike says that Kirk's father saved 800 lives. If you factor in that George Kirk had his pregnant wife with him...it could be extrapolated that some of that 800 were family. Family wouldnt have been present on the Enterprise in the Star Trek and probably not in STID...since thy were going off on a primarily military mission.
No, I mean the prime Connie have 430... Havent made that clear.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Speaking of tech-pollutions. Remember Kelvin have 800 in crew.... If timeline split AFTER Kelvin incident, how in the world should Connie, launched in 2240s have like 430? When a smaller ship merely 20-30 years ago have 800...
Pike says that Kirk's father saved 800 lives. If you factor in that George Kirk had his pregnant wife with him...it could be extrapolated that some of that 800 were family. Family wouldnt have been present on the Enterprise in the Star Trek and probably not in STID...since thy were going off on a primarily military mission.
No, I mean the prime Connie have 430... Havent made that clear.
A Constitution-class heavy cruiser (2250s version, as in TOS) had a crew complement of 205. The later 2260s version (movies) had 430 crew. Either ship could carry more, as seen in the TOS episode "Journey To Babel"; that was just the standard complement of crew to run the thing.
What's the actual crew complement of a ship like the Kelvin? (Note that, while the Kelvin has a single nacelle like a Saladin-class scout, it also has a large secondary hull like a Connie.) Did they have civilians aboard, like the Galaxy-class ships of the 2350s? Could that account for the "800 lives" statement?
Comments
I say 'almost', because if Nero and his crew where captured by the Klingons, they should have all just killed themselves to attain the Final Honor
Yes, that is the official explanation. But what makes that explanation so silly is that if simply scanning an enemy ship gave you enough data to reverse engineer their technology, then every empire would have every other empire's tech.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
He was the First Officer and it seems to me that in his mind, sending any data along to Star Fleet about what happened if he could, would be expected of him, even as he knew he was going to die.
I'm also thinking that Nero probably wasn't all that worried about hiding the Narada's capabilities from anybody since he was hell-bent on Destroying Everybody!
Thus the Kelvin's scans probably were rather thorough.
Especially the closer it got inside before being destroyed completely.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Emergency beacon dump right before he set ramming course... pretty typical in Trek, and they're treated like black boxes. So itd have all the data
The now doomed Axanar, as much of an debacle as it turned out to be, used JJ-Trek designs and refitted them to "TOS visuals" in their "prelude to Axanar" short. You should watch this, it actually looks plausible and I could see those designs being actual pre-TOS era Starfleet ships (they essentially gave the ships TOS nacelles and "smoothed" some of the lumps).
The difference in general visuals prior to the Narada incident can only be explained out-of-universe. It's simple costume differences, like TOS and TMP Klingons - remember, Rodenberry said Klingons always looked like in TMP but they simply hadn't had the budget. That's all explanation you need - forget about "augment virus" nonsense that doesn't make sense and insult ones intelligence as a "explanation" for different costumes in different eras, because you cannot actually say you prefer a kick to the head like that over simply accept the shows and movies as pieces of fiction that naturally undergoes some changes visually. JJ-Trek Klingons also look vastly different and that cannot be an effect of the NArada going back if everything was the same up to this point.
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What if! the Klingons got a hold of that data when they captured Nero and crew, and Section 31 later infiltrated the Klingon Empire and got it back.
When I was in the Navy my "Abandon ship" job was to smash all the GPS's and collect all the logs and put them in a life boat. I imagine that the minute a Federation vessel declares abandon ship a duplicate log is sent to all the escape pods.
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What "data" are you suggesting the Klingons "got a hold" of? They had the actual ship(Narada) for years. They didn't need scans from the Kelvin.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
I... don't know. I think I was processing without coffee this morning. Just pretend there was data. Sweet, sweet data.
But they don't. There's nothing about that one helmetless individual that would look out of place in TNG beyond the ridge piercings.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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*sighs*
There's no hole.
Cochrane's Phoenix is the branching point for the warp engines, not the Narada.
Without the TNG prime-universe pollution, we get the bulkier JJ-verse nacelles.
It's not about the Enterprise, but the Kelvin, who at introduction was radically different than the NX-01 to TOS transition ships we're familiar with in the regular prime-verse
Once again -- it's not the Enterprise I'm talking about, but the Kelvin.
Let me spell this out -- I didn't say that Geordi did *non cochrane spec* work -- re-read what I typed.
What I typed was that Geordi, Picard, et al. polluted the timeline *WITH COCHRANE* they didn't remove his memories, his experiences, etc. when they left.
What do you think would happen if you went back in time and "helped" the Wright Brothers, or Da Vinci get to their standard specs...what kind of pollution do you think you could do to the timeline *SIMPLY BY ILLUSTRATING WHAT CAN BE DONE*
It's the very definition of Prime Directive interference, not handing over advanced technology, but *exposing* to advanced technology, explaining what *can be done*
You do that with a man like Cochrane on the level of Orville and Wilbur caliber inventiveness, they are going to figure stuff out differently going forward than if they were sitting around thinking it up cold...they wouldn't give up on a difficult avenue of advancement in their goals. Are they going to invent jet engines? No. But are they going to look harder at employing elevators in their designs early on? If you flew past Kitty Hawk in a turn, low and slow, in a Spitfire...what would they glean from that?
I don't think you can dismiss the polluting influence the TNG crew had on Cochrane the man...it has nothing to do with their work on the Phoenix, or any other hard future tech they didn't leave behind...they opened up his mind to not just warp engines of the future, but a future he hadn't fully contemplated his own impact on.
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Pike says that Kirk's father saved 800 lives. If you factor in that George Kirk had his pregnant wife with him...it could be extrapolated that some of that 800 were family. Family wouldnt have been present on the Enterprise in the Star Trek and probably not in STID...since thy were going off on a primarily military mission.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
No, I mean the prime Connie have 430... Havent made that clear.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
What's the actual crew complement of a ship like the Kelvin? (Note that, while the Kelvin has a single nacelle like a Saladin-class scout, it also has a large secondary hull like a Connie.) Did they have civilians aboard, like the Galaxy-class ships of the 2350s? Could that account for the "800 lives" statement?