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Kemocite Stealth Nerf or Simply Bugged?

Pre-Patch:
351uvqp.png

Post-Patch:
2e2kpba.png

Same character, same build, same instance, discuss.


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Comments

  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    How far back is 'pre-patch'? KLW was fixed a while ago, so that's quite important information.

    Also, instances differ so one parse doesn't say much.
  • aequitasveritas#0670 aequitasveritas Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Pre-Patch was 10 days ago (didnt have a newer parse due to time issues), Post Patch was today.

    And while fluctuations clearly can happen it wont happen to this degree, even less so considering both runs were made in controlled DPS Channel Runs.

    If i remember correctly then the Kemocite Fix was about the Unintentional Multi-Proc Behaviour with multiple Copys of KLW.
    However i dont remember a fix where KLW does not Crit, Proc less (with 1 copy) and does not benefit from Flanking.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Interesting... especially given that you did hit much more and overall damage as well for certain abilities is much higher...

    It is strange.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2016
    I love the post patch numbers. Now I can finally go back to PvP.
    Post edited by lucho80 on
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,253 Arc User
    Virtually useless?
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    I kinda hope this is intentional (And before someone says it...I have kemocite, kemo I even, the most expensive one) and I'm kinda sick of this ability being insanely powerful.
  • aequitasveritas#0670 aequitasveritas Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Thats cool and all, personally i only got a few copies right at the start when they where like 25 to 30m Ec.

    Would never buy them for more then that, then again even if so i wouldnt laugh about anybody even if they did.

    Thats besides the point tho, my intention was to inform people and see if we could get some clarification.

    Not to start a flame thread.
    Or god forbid, offend people cause of an ingame item.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    I just want to see it take a huge dip in price, I wouldn't mind getting Kemo for a few torpedo boats...the price isn't worth saving up for just torp boats.
  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    If your info is accurate (witch it sure looks to be), Kemocite isn't worth more than 4-5mil Ecs at most. Based on other abilitys being more valuable, for LT and LT Comm. ability spots. I still believe Kemocite has a place on ship builds. Ships that have 2 or maybe even 3 ensign tactical spots, considering there just isn't that many good ensign abilitys. This actually effects my build. Ty for the info.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    I have kemocite I, which I paid a lot of ec for, and I'm hopeful that this info is accurate and it's been hit by the nerf bat.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    Looking at your parse, the numbers are looking very similar to what others of us are seeing. I don't know when your klw cycle is relative to your faw cycle, but I am assuming they are pretty much the same cycle. It looks like kemo was proccing twice as much as it was supposed to. Now the numbers line up with what the tooltip says, 10% chance to proc. This should cut kemo damage in half, but matches the tooltip. The other thing that seems to be happening is the chance to critical hit has been changed. It seems like nothing is increasing the critical hit at this time, which it was before. Kemocite is more than just more dps, it adds a damage resistance debuff, which indirectly increases your dps. This is lining beams up to what torpedos were suffering from right after the klw fix.
  • rjd66rjd66 Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    I just bought kemo 1 last night, Craptic you better not have f**ked me on this one it was costly.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I just want to see it take a huge dip in price, I wouldn't mind getting Kemo for a few torpedo boats...the price isn't worth saving up for just torp boats.

    Torp boats have seen this since the changes to TS, Neutronic, and Quantum Phase on the last major patch before/at the Winter Event. Been reported to Bug Bashers, but you know... torps.

    FYI, Weapon Systems Synergy still doesn't work for heavy torps.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
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    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • thenoname711thenoname711 Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    I believe the value of kemo still holds as second dmg res. debuff as it doesn't share CD with APB. Or was it changed lately? Haven't really played the game for the past 2 months or so.
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  • aequitasveritas#0670 aequitasveritas Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Looking at your parse, the numbers are looking very similar to what others of us are seeing. I don't know when your klw cycle is relative to your faw cycle, but I am assuming they are pretty much the same cycle. It looks like kemo was proccing twice as much as it was supposed to. Now the numbers line up with what the tooltip says, 10% chance to proc. This should cut kemo damage in half, but matches the tooltip. The other thing that seems to be happening is the chance to critical hit has been changed. It seems like nothing is increasing the critical hit at this time, which it was before. Kemocite is more than just more dps, it adds a damage resistance debuff, which indirectly increases your dps. This is lining beams up to what torpedos were suffering from right after the klw fix.

    The Cycle is indeed pretty much the same, however when i take a look at the Proc-Rate Post Patch i cant say i see the mentioned 10% proc rate at all there.

    I might be wrong, afterall im not the total genius in terms of STO maths and gameplay systems, but if my Embassy Console with 2,5% chance procs 40-50 times (pretty consistent number over different runs too) over one run, while KLW barely scratches 90 Hits per run now with a chance of 10%, it doesn´t seem quite correct to me.

    (Then again, Embassy is always on, while KLW has a downtime, albeit short, so as i said i might be wrong)

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I just want to see it take a huge dip in price, I wouldn't mind getting Kemo for a few torpedo boats...the price isn't worth saving up for just torp boats.

    Torp boats have seen this since the changes to TS, Neutronic, and Quantum Phase on the last major patch before/at the Winter Event. Been reported to Bug Bashers, but you know... torps.

    FYI, Weapon Systems Synergy still doesn't work for heavy torps.

    I could complain about torps...but they sorta gave me something what I wanted torp wise recently, really wanted to see a special Chroniton torp, since we're dealing a lot with time and stuff, and the Krenim...and we got one. :D
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    Looking at your parse, the numbers are looking very similar to what others of us are seeing. I don't know when your klw cycle is relative to your faw cycle, but I am assuming they are pretty much the same cycle. It looks like kemo was proccing twice as much as it was supposed to. Now the numbers line up with what the tooltip says, 10% chance to proc. This should cut kemo damage in half, but matches the tooltip. The other thing that seems to be happening is the chance to critical hit has been changed. It seems like nothing is increasing the critical hit at this time, which it was before. Kemocite is more than just more dps, it adds a damage resistance debuff, which indirectly increases your dps. This is lining beams up to what torpedos were suffering from right after the klw fix.

    The Cycle is indeed pretty much the same, however when i take a look at the Proc-Rate Post Patch i cant say i see the mentioned 10% proc rate at all there.

    I might be wrong, afterall im not the total genius in terms of STO maths and gameplay systems, but if my Embassy Console with 2,5% chance procs 40-50 times (pretty consistent number over different runs too) over one run, while KLW barely scratches 90 Hits per run now with a chance of 10%, it doesn´t seem quite correct to me.

    (Then again, Embassy is always on, while KLW has a downtime, albeit short, so as i said i might be wrong)

    The reason why I asked about the timing of your klw and faw cycles being matched up is to get a rough idea of how many attacks are outgoing while klw is active. I just looked at how many attacks you had under faw and the number of procs from klw. This number is very close to 10%. This part is very easy to check, people were getting around 20% proc rate prior to the patch. The hard part is figuring out what is going on with the critical hits as it will take much more testing due to the very low probability. The current thought is the same as feedback pulse, where it doesn't determine whether you have a critical hit after the proc, but before it is even determined if you proc klw. This should lead to a higher variance in klw damage, ie. you will see lesser damage more often, but high spikes on rare occasion.
  • nandospcnandospc Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Ok, kemo's not critting and flanking at this moment, confirmed via parses analysis.
  • aequitasveritas#0670 aequitasveritas Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    The reason why I asked about the timing of your klw and faw cycles being matched up is to get a rough idea of how many attacks are outgoing while klw is active. I just looked at how many attacks you had under faw and the number of procs from klw. This number is very close to 10%. This part is very easy to check, people were getting around 20% proc rate prior to the patch. The hard part is figuring out what is going on with the critical hits as it will take much more testing due to the very low probability. The current thought is the same as feedback pulse, where it doesn't determine whether you have a critical hit after the proc, but before it is even determined if you proc klw. This should lead to a higher variance in klw damage, ie. you will see lesser damage more often, but high spikes on rare occasion.
    So i am wondering if you think this still holds true.

    I actually should have showed the whole screenshot of the damage readout instead of just the bottom table, that was my bad.
    Anyways i have now done quite a few runs and parsed them and always get an overall number of attacks that come from KLW that are more close to 4 - 5% instead of 10% proc rate.

    Like this for example:
    1zlx1ld.jpg

    So i might be wrong anyways, like i said before, no genius here, but isnt 141 KLW attacks of 3186 Attacks overall about 4,42%?

    Obviously this is just an example parse, any parse i did so far comes out at about 5% though.





  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    At 4.42% that seems suspicious but that 10% proc rate is only in a perfect world (no.pun intended) to truly find out parse 10 runs add them all up and average them out that will yield a more accurate %
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    It was mentioned in the other recent kemo topic:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9681823-star-trek-online:-release-notes:-december-3rd,-2015

    With other words, the changes are intentional.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    We had the same thing with Torp Spread before Christmas so I know how people using this will feel, it's a real downer when you've put time and money into getting a build right and it gets hit with the nerf bat.
    But we all knew this was coming, KLW has been doing ridiculous things to the DPS possible in the game for some time now. Hopefully this will reign in at least some of the rampant powercreep taking over the game.
    SulMatuul.png
  • questerius wrote: »
    It was mentioned in the other recent kemo topic:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9681823-star-trek-online:-release-notes:-december-3rd,-2015

    With other words, the changes are intentional.

    That sadly doesnt cover what i said earlier.

    Point is:
    KLW does not crit anymore.
    It also is not affected by flanking anymore.
    And the proc chance seems lower then what the tooltip says it should be.

    The only thing those patch notes mention is a fix to proc chance.

    I agree the proc chance part is up for debate, doesnt rule out the other 2 points tho.

    And aslong as there isnt a official post or note that says its intentional, its bugged.
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    Kemocite is not going to be active for every single shot in your parse. I have klw activated while I am using faw. I only count the number of attacks using faw to approximate my klw proc rate. Your parse has 1161 Plasma Beam Array attacks and 190 Romulan Plasma Beam Array attacks while faw is active. That is 1351 attacks for 141 procs. For a small sample the approximation is close to 10%.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    The reason why I asked about the timing of your klw and faw cycles being matched up is to get a rough idea of how many attacks are outgoing while klw is active. I just looked at how many attacks you had under faw and the number of procs from klw. This number is very close to 10%. This part is very easy to check, people were getting around 20% proc rate prior to the patch. The hard part is figuring out what is going on with the critical hits as it will take much more testing due to the very low probability. The current thought is the same as feedback pulse, where it doesn't determine whether you have a critical hit after the proc, but before it is even determined if you proc klw. This should lead to a higher variance in klw damage, ie. you will see lesser damage more often, but high spikes on rare occasion.
    So i am wondering if you think this still holds true.

    I actually should have showed the whole screenshot of the damage readout instead of just the bottom table, that was my bad.
    Anyways i have now done quite a few runs and parsed them and always get an overall number of attacks that come from KLW that are more close to 4 - 5% instead of 10% proc rate.

    Like this for example:
    1zlx1ld.jpg

    So i might be wrong anyways, like i said before, no genius here, but isnt 141 KLW attacks of 3186 Attacks overall about 4,42%?

    Obviously this is just an example parse, any parse i did so far comes out at about 5% though

    But do all 3186 attacks coincide with a period of kemo or have a chance to apply it? Adding up the number of faw and non-faw beam hits as well as kcb yields more like 6.6%, which is lower than 10 but more likely to be within the variation of rng.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    That 10% is still only a chance for it to proc though. You could in theory go through an entire run and it never proc once, or you could have it go off on every shot if you were really lucky.
    It doesn't mean every 1 in 10 shot will be a guaranteed proc, it's just a chance.

    You'd have to do 100's of runs and measure the proc rate in each one with the same conditions before you could be certain there's any sort of bug or change to the mechanics.
    SulMatuul.png
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