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So where's my Fleet Odyssey?
momaw
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Anybody else think there ought to be Fleet versions of the C-store Odysseys? These things are supposed to be the flagship of the Federation, the epitome of heavy cruiser design. And yet if you look in threads about the newly refitted Fleet Excelsior, they're pointing out that a ship more than a hundred years old makes the Odyssey line look fat and slow. The thing is all over promotional artwork, heck, it's the newest Enterprise! It's cutting edge technology! And yet it's kind of being left in the dust.
So yeah. Fleet Odyssey in each of the flavors. +10% shields and hull. First player ship to have more than 12 bridge officer slots? Upgrade that universal ensign to a universal lieutenant?
And yes I know there is an Odyssey at tier 5 shipyard. That's the "free" Odyssey for anybody that didn't get one when they were handing them out. I'm talking about an upgraded fleet version of a ship that costs 25$. Excelsior got one, Armitage got one.
So yeah. Fleet Odyssey in each of the flavors. +10% shields and hull. First player ship to have more than 12 bridge officer slots? Upgrade that universal ensign to a universal lieutenant?
And yes I know there is an Odyssey at tier 5 shipyard. That's the "free" Odyssey for anybody that didn't get one when they were handing them out. I'm talking about an upgraded fleet version of a ship that costs 25$. Excelsior got one, Armitage got one.
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I posted a thread a while ago detailing a design for a Fleet Odyssey and Bortasqu. The link is here. And I personally would get one if it followed the form I put up. Even with the insane cost.
I really want to slap you now. You got your uber Excelsior. Now leave the rest of us cruiser pilots alone, and don't insult the Odyssey by saying something like that. And your fleet excelsior, as powerful as it is, can still be held by an Odyssey. Or at least be brought to a stalemate.
Look, I don't want Odyssey to become some munchkinned engine of doom but I do think it needs to serve a useful role and be competitive with other ships. With the addition of the FExcelsior, it really doesn't. Even more simply: If I were looking to buy a ship, I would not buy the Odyssey anymore. Providing a fleet upgrade of the C-Odyssey might make it worthwhile.
very versatile, and enough tac boffs and console slots possible for good firepower (one of the highest among cruisers that cannot equip DC, possibly the highest. i can only see the fleet regent top it, the fleet excelsior has too little tac BOFFs in my opinion)
anything that would be added to this ships without taking something away in return would simply make it OP.
anyway in future there may be a fleet version, since there will be coming more powerfull ships in future probably, but right now there is no need for one.
BUT, it would have been nice if the free oddy in the t5 shipyard could have 10 consoles instead of 9. something like 4/4/2 for the cost of 5 fleet ship modules.
Ridiculous statement. The Odyssey is still the best support cruiser you can get thanks to its universal stations. She can do massive healing and is nearly unkillable while still providing usefull support damage. Also in case you want a sci heavy cruiser. Go Odyssey. It is indeed a flagship by being the teams anchor and being able to do enough of everything.
The Excelsior is not an engineers ship, its a tactical cruiser. It is the best tactical cruiser Feddies have at the moment and not even the Regent can compete. Of course it is better at dealing damage than the Odyssey, it is specialized. Having the choise between the Odyssey and the Excelsior, no one with half a brain would take the Excel as healer and support.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
I keep telling you it's not uber... to be uber it would need the ensign engineer to become science... then I'd have the perfect ship
Out of curiosity, what do you expect an Odyssey to survive that the Fexcelsior won't? Odyssey has 5% more shields, Fexcelsior has 5% more hull, and they can both carry the same amount of armor. The Odyssey has an extra LTC-level engineering slot if you put an engineer into that universal bridge station, which you will basically be forced to use for Auxiliary To Dampener unless you like spending a minute turning around and being a static firing position from 8km away. Meanwhile the smaller and more agile cruiser will be actively maneuvering (and gaining a defense bonus from maneuvering) at shorter range and doing significantly more damage due to proximity alone.
Being a brick in space isn't a useful combat role. If you can give up 10% of your hypothetical ability to survive damage in order to double your damage output and end the fight sooner, it's a no-brainer. Help your team mates by killing what's hurting them. The only brick-in-space that really earns its keep is a Recluse, which is somewhat tougher than both of these cruisers and has hangar bays to offset its lethargy.
There isn't that much wrong with the Anniversary Odyssey, as long as you are going to run it in the default configuration anyway and don't like the consoles you get with the C-Store version (which seems to be the case with many players who keep claiming the consoles are useless). You still get the durability of the Odyssey, and can function very well as a support/heal ship (which is the role of a Cruiser in teams).
The only problem is that, aside from grinding like a madperson for many years, you have to put out as much real money to obtain it as the C-Store version due to the Ship Modules.
Two problems with your post.
1) There is no Fleet Odyssey Cruiser. There is an Odyssey Star Cruiser. And Odyssey Tactical/Operations/Science Cruisers. But no Fleet Odyssey Cruiser. The Odyssey Star Cruiser just happens to require a Star Base and a fleet. But it really fails when compared to the C-store ships.
2) The Odyssey Star Cruiser doesn't cost any fleet ship modules. Just 200k Fleet Creds.
And on the side, the unique consoles aren't useless. The Chevron Separation Console made any of the C-store Oddys beasts. At a huge cost of course, but it was usually worth it. The other two are not as spectacular, but far from useless.
yeah, but the oddy can be an offensive cruiser anyway if you slot ltdcmdr tac...
and the recluse has 2 weapon slots less, not sure how much better 2 hangar slots are compared to 2 weapon slots, but you should definately take it into consideration. (hangars are definately more versatile, but the actual dmg they add would be interesting compared to a ship mounted weapon)
the saucer sep on the oddy makes it an ideal offensive cruiser for feds in my opinion, sure you lose stats and a console slot, but you gain one gun too + much more time on target with DBB for instance.
and to be honest i much more prefer the 5 tac stations on the oddy, 3 is enough, but the 2 additional tac stations really add some serious firepower (not even counting the 2 TT for surviveability). And i can add a third science station to have PH, HE, TSS, formidable cruiser in my opinion...so many possibilitys, so many variations. Thats where the oddy shines. Somebody was looking for a "jack of all trades cruiser" and was going for the excelsior...wrong choice in my opinion.
The excelsior is kind of "only" an offensive cruiser, while the oddy has all possibilities open for cruisers tank/heal/support/offensive and still is among the best ships doing it. Sure some are better at each particular role, but the whole package is only included in the oddy pack.
PS: fleet version of the oddy starcruiser? yeah sure...10 consoles instead of 9 (an additional engi maybe) and same boff layout and base stats...price: 5 fleet ship modules and a t5 shipyard
I expect an Odyssey to survive whatever the enemy team is shooting its way and while doing so still be able to support its team. The Excelsior will be able to keep itself alive by devoting most if its engineering capabilities to this task, but never will be able to throw heals while doing so. As long as the enemy isn't completly stupid and has at least EPtS and Tac Teams your Eng/Excelsior flying around as DPS cruiser will have an insignificant impact on team DPS over an Eng/Odyssey, but will put you short on heals.
Aux2Damp, really? You can mount whatever you like to win your STF and play gunboat but for everything more serious you'd better start playing to your ships strengths instead of trying tor force it into roles it is not meant to fulfill. And I'm sorry, but if we are really talking only PvE here, I can't see why ship type matters at all. You can fly everything and load it up with basically everything. Also you don't really need fleet ships to beat anything.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
I'll just move past the incredibly patronizing tone here and say that the majority of STO content is not aimed at PVP. A majority of STO players don't care about PVP. It might be worth reevaluating this concept of "playing to strengths" based on the fact that PVP is a minority population in a game that isn't really set up to properly support it.
And what exactly is your problem then? If all you want is to slaughter NPCs why not just re-read baudls post and do the obvious? Use a tactical BOFF as universal Lt. Commander and there is basically no difference between your Odyssey and an Excelsior.
Do you really need an upgrade to a ship that already is at fleet level to win a game mode where "playing to strengths" is not necessary at all? Probably 95% of STOs PvE is dumb mode, so an Odyssey is as good as an Excelsior or a T3 ship there. I'm not patronizing anything and really, nobody is mad at your for sticking with PvE, but I don't have to reevaluate anything just because you are not interested in it.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
Isn't a remote chance at all that a fleet excel can survive what my Tac Ody can. I run sci in ltc slot. With ts3,ts2,he2,he1 along with my engineer boffs is something no fleet excel can obtain.
As to damage. 7 accx2 plasma beams + 3 fleet emb + plasma damage shield emitter consoles + 2 fire at will with eptw1 nets me 5.5k dps in places like infected elite. I'm tanking it all, I'm healing it all, and i'm doing solid damage.
I'll concede there is no Fleet Odyssey Cruiser, however the Odyssey Star Cruiser fills the slot that would be occupied by a Retrofit version, and so is the default Fleet store base Odyssey. Perhaps it should be said there is no Fleet Odyssey Retrofit, and that would be correct. Also, your comment about the Odyssey failing compared to the C-store ships is really just opinion, as I've used mine quite successfully and in equal efficiency compared to my C-Store version set up in the same manner. The real problem I see is that there -is- a C-Store version (several in fact), and I don't know what they could change without introducing another level of power to the game that the Odyssey was to have been the peak of. Of course, if the devs decide to do so, they can.
As to not costing Fleet ship modules, I believe this is true of all standard Fleet store base versions. Only the Retrofit Fleet ships require modules.
Lastly, I agree the consoles are not useless, as I would say not a single console that gives an advantage in the game is useless. I was simply stating what others have claimed, and if you decide not to use these consoles, the Star Cruiser performs very similarly or as good as the C-Store ships. The one advantage being that people don't need to spend real money to obtain it.
Most of the good cruiser updates are already exclusive to high-tier fleets. Leaving something for people who aren't going to be able to grind for all eternity to get a Fleet AC-R is a wise idea.
The Odyssey can do it all. She's a great ship, and still the most versatile cruiser out there. I will never argue this point, since to do so would make me a hypocrite and a liar, and I have real life for that.
But I will say that when it comes to tanking, she's been out-classed. When it comes to damage dealing, she's still top dog, but she pays an arm and a leg for it. As healing cruisers go though, she's still far and away the best.
The cruiser that used to be the best at everything, and could do everything you needed a cruiser to do... can't anymore. And since she still costs so much, I think that's what annoys me the most.
And as PvP goes? Um... yeah... that's an entirely different arena. Literally and figuratively. So I am not going to even touch that.
Don't worry. If/when they come up with a real Fleet Odyssey, you can pay ANOTHER $50 to bring it to spec!
Are you quite finished mocking me, or do you actually have something constructive to say? Since I have as of yet to spend any money on this game. All the zen I used was from grinding. Please refrain from making assumptions. Since you know what they say, to assume makes an TRIBBLE out of u and me.
Just out of curiosity, by which cruiser has the Odyssey been outclassed when it comes to tanking? And before you think I'm trolling or somewhat, that's an honest question, cause personally I can't see it.
As for damage, the Odyssey never ever was the king of DPS cruisers. When she got introduced a tac or sci Odyssey with Sauper Sep maybe had the damage potential of an Excelsior, but she had to sacrifice a lot for that. Since the changes to Aux2Bat all this is completely irrelevant, the (Fleet) Excelsior simply has the perfect BOFF layout here.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
i really can't see where and how a tac oddy has to sacrifice alot to be a dps cruiser and i highly doubt the boff layout of the excelsior can be considered "perfect" for a dps cruiser, no matter the changes to aux2batt.
3 tac boffs is in my opinion enough for a dps cruiser but the more the better, therefore hardly perfect.
perfect dps cruisers in my opnion: fleet vor'cha, the breen cruiser
I actually was thinking the Fleet Excel here, for reasons stated either above or in another thread... I would post them but I am too tired atm, for which I apologize. But the run-down is as such: equal if not slightly weaker shields, more self-heals available, more power changes available, faster, more hull, better turn, no cost to get said better turn.
If you disagree/still have questions, put em up, and I'll respond tomorrow when I am more awake.
I was referring to Fed cruisers in this. But I agree, for DPS purposes, KDF battlecruisers and the Breen cruiser will be much better than any fed cruiser could hope to be.
Well, let's just say I disagree. No need to go this route further.
Yeah I know, but you also thought (still think?) the Fleet Nova is TRIBBLE, so please forgive me if all I can say here is: too bad.
And if we weren't talking exclusively Feddie cruisers here you would be right with the Fleet Vor'cha and also the Fleet K'tinga. There is no Breen cruiser, the Breen ships fits the new destroyer category.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
the reason why i thought the fleet nova was total TRIBBLE, was simply the 1.11 shield modifier and the lower hull (not really important anyway). As it turned out, and i only have your word for it which is enough for me, the shield modifier is far better than 1.11 actually. my first judgement about the fleet nova was based on wrong information, which are still not fixed.
Anyway, i still think that the wells is the better choice over the fleet nova, and the fleet nova is an ok sci vessel, but hardly an optimum ship. Sure everybody has his own preferencys and opinions, but based on the stats presented, the wells is superior to the fleet nova. And thats what i basically said that night, since i asumed you would go for the best ship available. And in my opinion the fleet nova is a cheaper compromise, because it too has the ltdcmdr tac boff and a high enough turnrate.
i also brought up the fleet vor'cha because of it's BOFF layout, which can be copied by the oddy.
Only 2 things make it less effective than the vorcha, no dual cannons and one less tac console. Since dual cannons are no option for any fed cruiser remains only the the tac console as the disadvantage. And wasting a console slot for the saucer sep is in my opinion only half a waste, since "you" actually gain 2 beams, a tractor beam, ET, EPtS.
So if we can agree that the fleet vorcha is more or less the optimal attack cruiser, and the oddy only lacks the DC/DHC and one tac console, it is in my opinion fair to asume that the Tac oddy (with chevron sep) is one of the best (or even the best) attack cruisers the FEDs can get right now, appart from D'kora or the cardassian cruiser. (probably until the galaxy X gets it's saucer seperation)
i also want to count the breen ship as a cruiser simply because it has fore and aft 4 weapon slots...the recently introduced destroyer (all are categorised as escorts anyway) ships do not. Also because the game does so.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
Why do you disagree? I am curious.
Eh... -.-
I think you sacrifice too much with the chevron sep to make it the best attack cruiser. The loss of hull, shields, and Aux and Shield power levels are a little too much for me to agree. Granted you do gain a very nice turn rate boost and weapon power, but considering your extra gun and BOff powers can be actually quite easily destroyed... not entirely sure it makes up for it.
well yeah, "the best" probably not...thats just my opinion, and like children, your own are allways the best^^
But for people that are looking for an attack cruiser, the tac oddy with the seperation console should definately be a consideration, and not be seen as only "the" support cruiser.
My point is, if you buy the whole package, you have the possibility to play all types of cruisers tank/support/heal/dmg without too many compromises if you compare it to the top cruisers at this specific roles.
Yeah, I too am a Tac Oddy with Chevron sep convert. And it still has the highest damage potential out of all the fed cruisers, even the Imperial and new Fleet Excelsior. But again, what it gives up to do this... Well it's a rather painful trade-off. But as you and meimetoo are always saying, you can't have it all, so stop trying, and I agree.
When I am in an STF with other cruisers, I easily out-damage all of them, but they are usually better at staying alive. I can even sometimes draw aggro off of some escorts. I shortly thereafter pay for it by getting a ton of damage sent in my direction, and since my hull and shields are weakened, it's usually not the most pleasant experience in the world. But if my damage stays above 700 by the end of my 7 beam broadside, I am happy with it.