Star Trek time travel is especially dumb. While something like Terminator establishes some rules, like only this device can time travel and you need this and that to do it, Star Trek time travel is so easily available as to fly a rustbucket of a B'Rel around a star or use one of the other dozen ways to do it established in canon which of course never comes up to solve problems because it would be boring. But time travel plots when time travel is a voluntary and controled thing you can do never make sense.
Well, I have to rewatch that film someday because I was constantly thinking about Daenerys Targaryen as Sarah Connor.... my god, what's this world become... roflmao...
In a branching timeline structure, you can't really change a timeline with time travel, although you might create new branches which are more (or less) pleasant to live in than the line you came from. The time stream has infinite capacity for permutations -- you can't break it.
In a time model with predestination paradox, just relax. You're going to go back and do that thing you've already done, regardless of how much or little effort you put into it, so you might as well pop down to the pub and have a pint while you wait.
In either case, time cops are a bit silly, but hey, maybe they know something we don't. So humor the nice officer and maybe buy her a drink after her shift. You may be your own grandpa.
What i hate is the way that my captain says unpolitelly, "we build the device, it's our fault".. it was the Tholians.. too much sincerity! makes no sence.. in diplomacy you are not that direct... that will get you in trouble
Simpson's Sixth Season's Treehouse of Horror V - Time and Punishment story has all the answers for this.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What i hate is the way that my captain says unpolitelly, "we build the device, it's our fault".. it was the Tholians.. too much sincerity! makes no sence.. in diplomacy you are not that direct... that will get you in trouble
It's another one of those annoying cases of our captains looking really, really REALLY stupid, like, worse than first day in the academy level of stupid. I was like what?! You told them THAT?! In situations like that, you always tell as little as possible, only needed to say was there to stop Tholians and that's it. Our captains are responsible for the temporal cold war now, cause could not keep that gator mouth shut. The blame could have been pinned all on the Tholians properly otherwise. I don't care if the cold war supposedly had to happen, but not because of our captains being so incredibly stupid... That was just some very bad writing there.
Do they really hate everything else? I seem to recall someone, maybe Capt Sisko in a ds9 episode, maybe someone else in another series, say something about a gift from the Tholian ambassador.
The Tholians also had an ambassador stationed at DS9. At one point, this Tholian owed the station commander, Captain Benjamin Sisko, a favor. The Tholian ambassador obtained silk and gave it to Ben Sisko to return the favor. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior")
When it comes to the Thollians I always thought that they all lived in the many universes/realities, but that after etiher a break/weak-spot in the fabric of time-space or they gained inter-dimensional traveling technology they began to merge the many other Thollian races into a single assembly of their collective race. The fact of how they are so aggressive could be like the Founders/changelings that non-Thollians attacked them, or merely that the race is split between two polarized factions from different dimensions.
Now for the Crystalline entity for me atleast i saw it more as a being that might act as a form of both god, and birthing place for the race across the many universes, with it being that it only is one in each universe or it can cross dimensional borders/boundaries. Also it would make sense for why they guard it as it would be how they reproduce being a huge Thollian farm, with the Thollians being crystalline might make it that they are grown by the Entity an then break away once enough energy is gathered from worlds to make them fully grown.
I dig that the Assembly is actually ALL the Tholians from across several alternate dimensions.
You have to remember though, the Tholians are the only truly alien minds that the Feds, Klinks and others deal with on a regular basis. They aren't even remotely humanoid and don't have humanoid foibles, unlike literally EVERYONE else in the galaxy. That goes, in part, a long way toward explaining their xenophobia, they are literally surrounded on all sides by violent, expansive, unpredictable aliens that they can barely comprehend, much less understand. The only safe play is xenophobia. However, in the CE they see a kindred, even if they can't communicate with it in a meaningful way, it is their cousin, so they defend it in the same way that we might protect a monkey from a tiger or a chimp from a lion. It's not Us exactly, but it's close enough to deserve protection.
In this line of thinking it think it explains why they wanted the Tox Uthat. Imagine that you are surrounded by softlife that is incredibly prolific and exists in temperatures so cold that you would shatter and die from the difference between your inside and outside temperature. Whose minds are round or square instead of triangular. Whom are almost totally incapable of comprehending. You would want a weapon powerful enough to protect you and yours, your ships while easily a match for theirs are few while they have fleets of thousands of ships. You need something will instill fear while being eminently controllable. Trilithium torpedoes can be shot down. But this crystal from the future is interesting, it's like you. Easy to understand. If you have that, the softlife will stay away because you can destroy them.
What i think of the Tholians is that they should be discovered to be the only faction in the Temporal cold war that doesn't need to use proxy's to work for them, because they can cross time and space by themselves like the Q can, or because they are already in all times and spaces, meaning the Tholians we kept the Tox Uthat from were the ones who approached Capt. Archer.
Which makes me wonder if any Tholian we fought with ever really died?
Do they really hate everything else? I seem to recall someone, maybe Capt Sisko in a ds9 episode, maybe someone else in another series, say something about a gift from the Tholian ambassador.
yea sisko got some tholian silk from the tholian ambassador iirc.
it seems my suspicions about that first mission and it's ties to to enterprise and next gen were right, we seem to be flying head long into the temporal cold war.
I plan to name whatever ship I get from the story line "Timey Wimey"
Comments
Well, I have to rewatch that film someday because I was constantly thinking about Daenerys Targaryen as Sarah Connor.... my god, what's this world become... roflmao...
In a time model with predestination paradox, just relax. You're going to go back and do that thing you've already done, regardless of how much or little effort you put into it, so you might as well pop down to the pub and have a pint while you wait.
In either case, time cops are a bit silly, but hey, maybe they know something we don't. So humor the nice officer and maybe buy her a drink after her shift. You may be your own grandpa.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's another one of those annoying cases of our captains looking really, really REALLY stupid, like, worse than first day in the academy level of stupid. I was like what?! You told them THAT?! In situations like that, you always tell as little as possible, only needed to say was there to stop Tholians and that's it. Our captains are responsible for the temporal cold war now, cause could not keep that gator mouth shut. The blame could have been pinned all on the Tholians properly otherwise. I don't care if the cold war supposedly had to happen, but not because of our captains being so incredibly stupid... That was just some very bad writing there.
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Tholian
The Tholians also had an ambassador stationed at DS9. At one point, this Tholian owed the station commander, Captain Benjamin Sisko, a favor. The Tholian ambassador obtained silk and gave it to Ben Sisko to return the favor. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior")
Now for the Crystalline entity for me atleast i saw it more as a being that might act as a form of both god, and birthing place for the race across the many universes, with it being that it only is one in each universe or it can cross dimensional borders/boundaries. Also it would make sense for why they guard it as it would be how they reproduce being a huge Thollian farm, with the Thollians being crystalline might make it that they are grown by the Entity an then break away once enough energy is gathered from worlds to make them fully grown.
You have to remember though, the Tholians are the only truly alien minds that the Feds, Klinks and others deal with on a regular basis. They aren't even remotely humanoid and don't have humanoid foibles, unlike literally EVERYONE else in the galaxy. That goes, in part, a long way toward explaining their xenophobia, they are literally surrounded on all sides by violent, expansive, unpredictable aliens that they can barely comprehend, much less understand. The only safe play is xenophobia. However, in the CE they see a kindred, even if they can't communicate with it in a meaningful way, it is their cousin, so they defend it in the same way that we might protect a monkey from a tiger or a chimp from a lion. It's not Us exactly, but it's close enough to deserve protection.
In this line of thinking it think it explains why they wanted the Tox Uthat. Imagine that you are surrounded by softlife that is incredibly prolific and exists in temperatures so cold that you would shatter and die from the difference between your inside and outside temperature. Whose minds are round or square instead of triangular. Whom are almost totally incapable of comprehending. You would want a weapon powerful enough to protect you and yours, your ships while easily a match for theirs are few while they have fleets of thousands of ships. You need something will instill fear while being eminently controllable. Trilithium torpedoes can be shot down. But this crystal from the future is interesting, it's like you. Easy to understand. If you have that, the softlife will stay away because you can destroy them.
Which makes me wonder if any Tholian we fought with ever really died?
yea sisko got some tholian silk from the tholian ambassador iirc.
I plan to name whatever ship I get from the story line "Timey Wimey"