Testing the new Terran Torp

e30ernest · November 2015

Been running around with the new Terran Rep torp on my Phantom. It really packs a wallop once you get the mob health low. I do have a few questions:

On low hull targets, normal shots from this torp can crit really hard. I've seen crits over 250k from single torp shots.
On HY3, these max hits drop to 160k
On TS3, these max hits drop to 60-80k or so.

Those numbers seem to suggest that the damage scaling on NPC health is not applying on HY and TS. Is that correct? If so, is that intended or a bug?

These tests were done running Protonic Arsenal 3-pc, Counter-Command Ordnance 3pc and 2/2 Locators and Exploiters +Torp.

gerwalk0769 · November 2015

Those are quite the max hits.

I have not seen anything like that. But I'm running it aft, part of the Terran two piece, and with HY 2 near exclusively (except for a all Withering Torpedo build on the DSD). Wonder if it is WAI.

darkknightucf · November 2015

I'm going to get the number cruncher'ss on this. @jarvisandalfred is this another manifestation of the "Salvo Discussion" we've been having?

jarvisandalfred · November 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

I'm going to get the number cruncher'ss on this. @jarvisandalfred is this another manifestation of the "Salvo Discussion" we've been having?

I would bet it's a combination of this and the Enhanced Bio-mol discussion - THY1 hit harder than THY3 due to exploits being present on the THY1's for me; I'd suspect something similar for this.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, Oden's dead on. THY decreases the per-shot damage in exchange for increasing the number of shots fired at a time for all salvo THY's. TS does similar, but also adds targets per rank. That's exactly what we're seeing here, I'd bet. So the THY's doing more damage, it's just split up across multiple hits.

darkknightucf · November 2015

jarvisandalfred wrote: »

darkknightucf wrote: »

I'm going to get the number cruncher'ss on this. @jarvisandalfred is this another manifestation of the "Salvo Discussion" we've been having?

I would bet it's a combination of this and the Enhanced Bio-mol discussion - THY1 hit harder than THY3 due to exploits being present on the THY1's for me; I'd suspect something similar for this.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, Oden's dead on. THY decreases the per-shot damage in exchange for increasing the number of shots fired at a time for all salvo THY's. TS does similar, but also adds targets per rank. That's exactly what we're seeing here, I'd bet. So the THY's doing more damage, it's just split up across multiple hits.

It's what I thought as well; when looking at each shot individually, they would be lower than the single shot. Collectively, they SHOULD do more damage than the single shot, as well as in higher ranks, but then we go back to the same discussion/analysis over the numbers. Adding this special ability only exaggerates the disparity even more.

mustrumridcully0 · November 2015

(I think I am just repeating what the previous posters are mentioning.)
I think this is in fact a very old phenomen, and was particular important in PvP, where spike damage was often critical.

Basically, the crit damage is based on the damage of the individual torpedo's damage. (Critical hits are basically just another damage modifier).

High Yield Torpedo is a damage buff for torpedoes, and it does that (for some torpedoes at least) by adding extra torpedoes to a shot. But it tends to add a lot of extra torpedoes, and it would be imbalanced (at least in Cryptic's estimation) if each torpedo actually dealt maximum damage. (The number of torpedoes grows pretty fast), so each individual torp might actually deal less damage then a torpedo fired without HYT or with a lower rank high yield torpedo.
Your overall average damage is still considerably buffed, so the higher ranks are worth it for DPS, but your critical damage will not be as impressive, so if you needed spike damage potential*, a lower ranked high yield torped might be better.

Torpedo Spread seems to work the same, just that the damage is not directed at one target, but multiple targets.

High Yields that create heavy torpedoes or a single torpedo like the Biomolecular Torpedo from the Counter-Command reputation might boost your spike damage and your DPS. (Unless Cryptic tweaked there).

It also "helps" NPCs - high level NPCs don't fire more guns, they just fire bigger guns, so to speak, so their crits can be extra devestating, too.

*) of course, relying on criticals is generally not so great, but in PvP this used to be an important concern against teams with strong healers.

sovair · November 2015

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

(I think I am just repeating what the previous posters are mentioning.)
I think this is in fact a very old phenomen, and was particular important in PvP, where spike damage was often critical.

Basically, the crit damage is based on the damage of the individual torpedo's damage. (Critical hits are basically just another damage modifier).

High Yield Torpedo is a damage buff for torpedoes, and it does that (for some torpedoes at least) by adding extra torpedoes to a shot. But it tends to add a lot of extra torpedoes, and it would be imbalanced (at least in Cryptic's estimation) if each torpedo actually dealt maximum damage. (The number of torpedoes grows pretty fast), so each individual torp might actually deal less damage then a torpedo fired without HYT or with a lower rank high yield torpedo.
Your overall average damage is still considerably buffed, so the higher ranks are worth it for DPS, but your critical damage will not be as impressive, so if you needed spike damage potential*, a lower ranked high yield torped might be better.

Torpedo Spread seems to work the same, just that the damage is not directed at one target, but multiple targets.

High Yields that create heavy torpedoes or a single torpedo like the Biomolecular Torpedo from the Counter-Command reputation might boost your spike damage and your DPS. (Unless Cryptic tweaked there).

It also "helps" NPCs - high level NPCs don't fire more guns, they just fire bigger guns, so to speak, so their crits can be extra devestating, too.

*) of course, relying on criticals is generally not so great, but in PvP this used to be an important concern against teams with strong healers.

I have to agree with this 100%, this is very old and nothing new to the game and very well known to the PvP community. When I first started reading the the posts on this thread I started to scratch my head and say to myself "this is known and has been around forever." But alas since Ive returned to the game I have noticed a huge shift where PvP is not a real focus among players anymore it is PvE with DPS builds and channels. But to the point, mustrumridcully0 is fully correct. Seeing as how the PvE community is getting into actual dps builds like the PvP community has been for ages, I can see why this was new.

e30ernest · November 2015

Yeah I am aware of how HY and TS scale down for balance purposes. I was wondering if it was meant to be this high, because my other torps (such as Neutronic, PEP, Grav and Enh-Bio), the difference between normal crits and HY/TS crits were not as wide as the Terran torp. But yeah, perhaps the total of the HY or TS salvo might total bigger compared to those single crits.

lucho80 · November 2015

sovair wrote: »

I have to agree with this 100%, this is very old and nothing new to the game and very well known to the PvP community. When I first started reading the the posts on this thread I started to scratch my head and say to myself "this is known and has been around forever." But alas since Ive returned to the game I have noticed a huge shift where PvP is not a real focus among players anymore it is PvE with DPS builds and channels. But to the point, mustrumridcully0 is fully correct. Seeing as how the PvE community is getting into actual dps builds like the PvP community has been for ages, I can see why this was new.

Maybe you were gone for way too long. There was a nice period before the new R&D hit where science builds did fine, and frankly, DPS builds back then didn't fare too well against science drain builds.

darkknightucf · November 2015

There wasn't as much critD back then as there is now, which will exaggerate the performance delta of a single shot vs a lower rank HY vs a higher rank HY for certain conditions (limiting critH, if 1 or 2 torps crit on the salvo, etc).

welcome2earf · November 2015

Does the convoluted CrypticMath apply to the HY III version of the thunderd!ck BioTorp? It' still just a single projectile....

darkknightucf · November 2015

welcome2earf wrote: »

Does the convoluted CrypticMath apply to the HY III version of the thunderd!ck BioTorp? It' still just a single projectile....

Different math, but you did give me an idea as to how to deal w/ torpedo debuffs being applied on impact, and each successive torp receiving the benefit of the debuff.

Activate CF3
Single Shot Torp
Single Shot Torp
Fire CF-HY1
Activate HY3
Fire HY3

Even bigger HY3 booms.

e30ernest · November 2015

This is really a good finisher:

SCM - Infected [LR] (S) - Max One-Hit: 281,924 (Terran Task Force Photon Torpedo) - Eli@e30ernest

That's a normal shot from my Intrepid, no +torp tac consoles.

This'll probably deal massive damage on my Phantom with its Exploiters.

Testing the new Terran Torp

Comments