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Would you buy pvp ships from zen store only for pvp???

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  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    If you want to know what the state of PvP is inside Cryptic, listen to what Borticus has to say starting around 0:50:40 in this interview.

    http://priorityonepodcast.com/po247/
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    If they really worked on PvP. To me they should done similar like WoW. Have a regular set, and a PVP set. To go with their battlegrounds.

    Since they really hadn't done pvp stuff in a long time. pvp is dead for the most part on this game.
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  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    I played PvP a few times, Like those I played against I don't like to lose, I didn't :smiley: but they took it hard. Why I don't PvP. I don't like to lose..so I wouldn't play more then a 100 zen for such a ship with such gear. But when paying 3000 zen for a ship you would think the gear would be very rare at least, not junk.
    Positive thoughts.
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  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    It is clear they have to do something with PvP. The balancing is just awful at the moment.
    OP abilities are running rampant, Immunities and anti death traits, have totally destroyed what I once loved.


    And while I like the concept of "Stock Car" PvP, I wouldn't be willing to pay for it, much like @rahmkota19 has explained. The f2p aspect in the game, must be upheld.

    However, I would 100% participate if there was a viable way to implement "Stock Car" PvP.
    Basically it would take time to create an environment where these stock ships could participate, like their own Ker'rat type area, and separated queues, and all that will take dev time to implement, and as we know, if there is no profit return from production, they rarely go down those roads. At least in the case of PvP anyway.
    It's probably their lowest priority item at the moment (PvP).
    Sadly.

    I would completely support the Stock Car PvP... would I pay for it.... no.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    All they need to do for PvP is figure out how to make PvP zones again, then make some zones where you fight -over- stuff.

    Where each side tries to deny the other side some valuable resource.

    That's good pvp in a nutshell. Arena pvp is insipid, 'pvp gear' is a cancer on mmos.

    You arent meant to fight just for the sake of fighting, you're meant to fight -over- something. Whether its your own gear in games with loot, or some resource in games without loot.

    Ker'rat used to be like that, people used to come to kerrat to farm dil and drops. This meant there was a reason to come to kerrat, a reward for going there.

    mHmmm..... objective based PvP.... I seem to recall they floated the idea of the Dyson Battlezone (Ground) as a test bed for new PvP battlezone... Objective being to hold territory/complete objectives... I wouldn't use the existing capture and hold mechanism already in game... something more along the lines of timed encounter... 30 minutes blocks, awarded points/dil/marks whatever based on how much your team holds...

    I also don't like the idea of grinding a new set of gear to use in PvP (Swtor does this, and I hate it)... but do support the "stock car" concept.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • tomoyosakagami1tomoyosakagami1 Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I don't like PvP to begin with, so no.

    Ships are expensive enough as it is.
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  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    PvP only ships? Nope. If I'm going to be instafried like a chicken in a volcano, I'll do it in my own ship thank you very much! =)
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    I've already paid money for my ships and spent a lot of time grinding my gear to make a ship PvP worthy. Why should I have to pay more?
    Why don't they change the current gear so that it has different values in PvP to PvE (we know they can do it they already have on selected items)?

    Why not flick that little switch on the dyson zone and turn one of the instances it into a PvP battlezone? They have nothing to loose at this point.

    They won't do it though, the interview made it clear. It's a shame, they don't know the goldmine they are sitting in.
    This game has one of the best combat systems I've ever experienced in an MMO. Before DR, everything had a counter, there was always a way to turn the tide. High level gear mattered but wasn't absolutely necessary. Timing and the right abilities got you kills and you could punish people in C&H or Ker'rat for trying to rely on their build too much or their current meta.
    PvP was already making money then. PvP build's have always been more expensive and the grind took longer. The developers or PWE has made it clear that they don't want PvP stained money.

    Not sure why I still hold out hope TBH or play for that matter. It was PvP that kept things fun and interesting.
  • hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    No. PvP needs a serious overhaul to restore balance. It will never happen so PvP is dead and buried.
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    beameddown wrote: »
    no

    im sorry, I want to say yes, but I cant-

    ITS A GOOD IDEA, one that has been brought up before many years ago, throughout the years, (this is not ment in any way snarky or with sarcasm, just honest.. nodding head with agreement) IT was a good idea back then, its STILL a good idea today: TRUTH

    but, I don't think there is enough pvpers left.. not to mention there is so much angst

    FIRST, I feel it would be a waste, it would be just like cryptics motto for everything else in this game (if its broke.. and people pay for it, don't fix it!) SO I expect a poorly worked out pvp ship c-store system with maps ONLY to have debilitating glitches included that drag on for over half a year... and by then, most all the pvpers would have left leaving just the trolls LOL

    SECOND, its not just the gear that has pvp screwed... its not the dumb traits... personally? its always been the over-the-top healing we have in the game and the captain abilities (alpha, subnuke, miracle worker, etc, etc) that creates most of the problems in pvp

    think about this for a sec-

    the BULK and I do mean the bulk of the "fun" people had in the past for sto pvp was basically noob smashing OR being lucky to spawn into a match where your ship and build just happens to be the foil to your opponents build (you have a feedback boat, other guy comes in with a faw boat, etc, etc)

    THE REAL FIGHTS, the high end fights, the equally matched team fights... they sucked

    they dragged on for hour and a half+ NOT because of skill.. NOT because of gear load out really, hell.. in those high end matches even the rock, paper, scissor broke down for powers really.. it was nukes that decided matches

    that's sad really,
    when you step back from your time that you played,
    your past love of the game,
    the friends that you made, etc, etc
    JUST step back and think about how.. most all matches were decided? and during long.. long stretches in the past for pvp.... MULTIPLE timed subnukes were required to get even 1 kill

    against the top teams? you needed 3

    NOW most all the old pvper buddies I know bash pve for how mindless it is, how FAW is the dumb answer to everything pve related and guess what? they are right, faw is the one stop shop answer

    but now (post 6+ months since last I pvped) thinking back on the years in matches? it just seems equally as dumb

    one healer on a team could stalemate the assault of 4 tac captains on a single target either stacking their alphas or staggering them, it didn't matter

    a pair of off healers could stalemate the assault of 4 tac captains on a single target either stacking their alphas or staggering them, it didn't matter

    all that was left (and it was a flip of a coin really looking back on it all) was fast swapping targets with feint spikes THAT took time to set up (often times, after a failed push on a target by a organized team..... 2 minute cooldown: BUT NOW plans to spread the damage a bit, then fast swapping to the primary target IN THE WEAK HOPES that the opposing team would be spread so thin..... SO THIN with heals that they would be unable to save the primary target)

    because the healing was so broken from the get go, making matches SO easily stalemated with virtually no effort (most those matches decided by lag or a simple mistake after HOURS of perfect piloting) subnukes quickly became the only way to force a kill against a solid team

    that degenerated quickly into more off healers and then MORE nukes needed to get the kill

    mix that with the bulk of the sto population unable to fly with a dedicated healer (hell, most not even able to find 4 other equally skilled players to roll with LET ALONE the fortune of 3 on the team being sci captains) led to most of the domination by the pvp fleets that understood these facts in pvp: nukes>healers>everything else

    after the roms.... we got vapes in the fed cues and that's when most of the old guard ran out the door crying, cause vapers could still get kills surrounded by a team of idiots.. and didn't follow the old rule of: nukes>healers>everything else

    night after night, folks piled into the queues hoping to have A FUN FIGHT AND WOULD GET IT when they didn't have to face a premade team, face a team with a couple folks working together (timed heals, timed nukes), OR the perfect foil to their build

    many matches allowed these instances to happen AND THAT equates to the bulk of the pvp populations enjoyment of the past

    but that still doesn't change the fact that captain abilities (alpha, nuke, etc, etc) and insane healing made pvp dumb in this game


    pile on the top OF THAT a population of pvp players that squabbled over every little dumb thing in the game and you have a HORRIBLE pvp system that consisted of a handful of glitchy maps provided by a company that tried to pick your pocket every month by offering poorly thought out gear and abilities that most didn't work properly for months after released

    I say keep the pvp c-store ships...
    just outlaw universal consoles, remove all forms of auto clears and immunities, delete the captain abilities, and finally slash healing in half...

    you would have pvp matches where team work matters BUT CAN NOT stalemate a match for hours, you would have faster matches (so no more 2 hour+ grind matches), and it would be approachable for all classes and players (not to mention all ships)


    BUT, that's my very, very biased opinion- I don't care to defend it (im retired from pvp in this game) and I already know each and everyone of the players that did pvp in this game has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed, what needs to be changed, or what could "save" pvp in this game

    I cheer on the next generation of pvpers that want to go forward and I hope cryptic does give you guys and gals some solid love here soon

    its a shame the current state of pvp,
    FUNNY THING from my point of view: I SPENT MONEY IN THIS GAME TO PVP

    cause I had so many pvp toons, I wanted to try out so many pvp builds, so I had no time or desire to grind for anything.. I would just swipe the card to get what I wanted

    was happy to do it to:)

    today? now? being a full time PVEr with one primary toon? build done?
    been 6 months since the last time I swiped a credit card in this game... and for me taking in 80k dil a day... cash piling up... dil to c-points piling up...

    honestly? I cant see a situation anytime in the near future or long that I would have to use my credit card again in this game- and that's not a threat, that's just a fact

    pvpers hated to grind pve.. ask anyone of them- we rather spend our free time pvping LOL
    many of us the obivious choice was to use the credit card to get what we needed, BUT now for me not having multiple builds to work on? no challenge of pvp to rise up to?

    ya, life is pretty cake in sto:)
    think about that the next time you go to the exchange and you see insane prices for everything, think about that a massive chunk of the players that "had to have it all and the best of it all" LEFT this game or downshifted to pve like I did.. and the vacuum of those players that use to crack boxes like mad... grab JUST the items they needed.. then quickly DUMP the rest on the exchange for the lowest bid.....

    LOL anyways, have fun with the next lock box ship folks, im sure the gold farmers will want 1.5 billion for the stupid ship:)

    me? im happy as a clam flying my fleet arbiter,
    I think she makes a good retirement ship to fly off into the sunset in:P

    Hello,all your point are valid ,matches-2 long,on one side pugs on other side pvpers craving for blood..etc.etc.

    If pvp can exist again in Sto we need different system.

    Let me summarise what i got from post:

    1. Ship must be free,so ship can be event ship,purpose pvp only.

    2.Ship has epic stutus in A. system.

    3 Ship is by default like stock car system,nobody can say i dont have chance or other player has better build.

    3.1 No boffs ,doofs,traits,even your skills are gone.sugestion this event pvp ship is pilot ship.we all know why.

    4.i like BZ idea,for ground pvp.map is allready created,but i will add hirogen to spice up things(predator theme).

    5.Please add more comments .thx to all :)

    Maybe ,maybe we can turn things around.


    Its a good list
    I like the Event Reward PvP ship idea. That would be one way to do it, but this ship would always have to be offered at every event (so others who might have missed an event can still get one.)
    I really like the ground map PvP idea (like Dyson, but you have different factions fighting for control of territory) - Wouldn't mind seeing this theme in Space PvP as well. Some new type of PvP match would be welcome. For example;
    - FREE FOR ALL - Everyone versus Everyone
    - 4 team PvP - Like traditional Arena, but with 4 teams instead of 2
    - Round Robin Free For All - Like free for all, but 3 stages, where at the end of each stage the lowest scorers are eliminated. Until it ends in a 1 on 1 final.
    - *This is a pure pipe dream - but we can dream right ?* Mirror Match, Fight yourself. An exact copy of your ship and loadout, versus... "You" (controlled by AI of course, but not the weak AI that currently exists, one like in Forza where you can train a "driver drone" to learn your driving tendencies, and it keeps on refining its performance the more you do PvP queues. The more you play, the more data it has to draw upon to mimic your behaviors in battle.)
    Or even going further on this Mirror Match, to be able to setup any ship you own to battle against.
    For example, you want to test out the effectiveness of FBP III ? Set up a beam scort to battle against. This would be more of a learning tool, but could provide a great challenge depending on how you set up the match... Think Miranda versus a T5U or even T6, a Shuttle versus a crusier, etc, etc... the combos are almost unlimited.

    - Hardcore Mode Lose a shield facing and get torpedo'd ? You're dead, and out of the match until 1 lone ship emerges victorious. Like Free For All, but with no respawns.

    Further, improve the PvP queues by adding some different maps; How about battling it out in an asteroid field ? Where large asteroids could be used effectively to cut off your attackers line of sight and attack.
    Also, on this duck and hide map, you wouldn't have gamertags displayed unless under direct attack, You would only be able to see your enemy with eyesight and keen senses alone (except as stated, unless under direct attack).
    This is where teams could effectively setup ambushes. (Hard to ambush someone when Gamertags are displayed for miles out.) Bring in an element of surprise. And a real purpose for cloaks.

    Just a few ideas I had kicking around.






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  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    @coldnapalm allow me to clarify, I said "gear" but I meant build: traits, boff abilities, ship equipment and so on.

    The devs have already dialled back the effectiveness of particular items and traits when used in PvP. Can't remember off the top of my head but there is a trait that is half as effective in PvP than PvE.

    They could easily halve the values of certain abilities and equipment when in PvP to achieve balance. However, there have been so many ideas to improve PvP over the years and a lot of them very good and very easy to implement. The devs have made it clear however that PvP is not an interest for them. They won't tell us the real reason because they know the backlash they'll get (it's probably not a very good one). Either way it's their loss. They lost many customers that we're happy to throw money at them but their attitude seems to be "No! We'd rather please the zombie PvEers and have short term gain than long term."
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    @coldnapalm allow me to clarify, I said "gear" but I meant build: traits, boff abilities, ship equipment and so on.

    The devs have already dialled back the effectiveness of particular items and traits when used in PvP. Can't remember off the top of my head but there is a trait that is half as effective in PvP than PvE.

    They could easily halve the values of certain abilities and equipment when in PvP to achieve balance. However, there have been so many ideas to improve PvP over the years and a lot of them very good and very easy to implement. The devs have made it clear however that PvP is not an interest for them. They won't tell us the real reason because they know the backlash they'll get (it's probably not a very good one). Either way it's their loss. They lost many customers that we're happy to throw money at them but their attitude seems to be "No! We'd rather please the zombie PvEers and have short term gain than long term."

    And I told you why that won't work. Yes a FEW things have different values for PvP vs PvE...but for this to work, we would need to do this for EVERYTHING. Basically, telling the devs to build a second game...and balance it. That is not even remotely reasonable at this point. You want PvP? the simple solution is to monetize it with PvP only ships that only have very limited powers so it can be properly balanced. That is something they can actually do.

    It is a simple solution, but it won't solve anything. Forcing people to buy PvP ships adds a barrier to entry to PvP, and devalues purchases (or grinds) of "normal" ships. It will not get people that don't PvP to start PvP, and it will likely even get rid of some people that PvPed in the past, because they don't want to pay for an underdeveloped system. The end result is that Cryptic spend money on developing PvP only ships that people don't buy for a system people don't play anymore.

    Such a change would be worse for most PvPers probably than making no change at all.

    You cannot monetize the access to PvP itself. It will crush the system.

    I am all for narrowing down the build system and ditching gear benefits and restricting powers in PvP if that is neccessary to get balance, but you can't monetize the access to PvP.

    Maybe you could do something like Champions Online did with F2P - You only get access to a bunch of free archetypes and you can buy additional ones. (And maybe there is a "Free-Form" PvP type, too, where you can play regular ships.) But I don't think this will be the primary way to monetize PvP, and you really need to make sure the basics are covered and available for free.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    But no one will go for it. The majority of the PvP crowd is already gone and i don't think that would bring them back.

    @mustrumridcully0 PvP was bringing in money before the golden age of season 8.5, the money came from the people who paid their way to get the gear without the grind or the latest ship to have an advantage over others. Difference is that there was some sort of balance balance back then, not much balance but you could counter most things if you were clever and had a decent build. Things are a lot different now, it's all about the build and the build does all the work. All you have to do is press the space bar.
    Balance needs to return, then some of the PvP crowd will return. After that PvP will have to be overhauled if they want the big spending PvPers back.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    But no one will go for it. The majority of the PvP crowd is already gone and i don't think that would bring them back.

    @mustrumridcully0 PvP was bringing in money before the golden age of season 8.5, the money came from the people who paid their way to get the gear without the grind or the latest ship to have an advantage over others. Difference is that there was some sort of balance balance back then, not much balance but you could counter most things if you were clever and had a decent build. Things are a lot different now, it's all about the build and the build does all the work. All you have to do is press the space bar.
    Balance needs to return, then some of the PvP crowd will return. After that PvP will have to be overhauled if they want the big spending PvPers back.
    If PvP was really bringing noteworthy amounts of money, cryptic wouldn't have abandonded development for so long. PvPers might be big spenders (or at least some of them are), but there were just never sufficient numbers for Crpytic to prioritize PvP development over other stuff.

    And better balance would actually kill the PvP spending aspect here. Because a new ship, its console or its traits would no longer have any advantages over the old ones.

    So it's a self-defeating system as the things are now. PvPers buy ships because they are more powerful (or at least they believe they are more powerful), but people leave PvP because it's too imbalanced and you must chase the newest flavor of the month uber abilities.

    To break this, one would need to invent something that PvPers will want to spend money on, and that fixes the balance issues. That's a tall order. And all that without making PvP inaccessible or impractical for people that don't want to pay to play.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    tempus64 wrote: »
    If you want to know what the state of PvP is inside Cryptic, listen to what Borticus has to say starting around 0:50:40 in this interview.

    http://priorityonepodcast.com/po247/

    I agree about the episodes : This is , obviously from the name, a game for Trekkies and Trekkies love new episodes.
    However, they should have realized right now that the effort spent to design a new queue is half wasted in the long term because people, after getting the marks they need and be done with that rep, they'll get back to their favourite queues, either in terms of fun or in terms of efficient grinding ... same goes for the new players and that's another reason why most queues "look" dead and then some get deleted like Storming the Spire, The Romulan one with the salt zombies and, I don't remember which else : effort has been wasted there.


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  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    @mustrumridcully0, the fact that PvP cost very little especially compared to PvE content and still made made money should be reason enough to maintain it.

    The ships being released weren't always more powerful they just offered a slightly different play style. That's the way it should be. Not real easing abilities with little testing so the idiots who don't like and don't know how to fight for more than 30 seconds can run rampant and claiming they're gods of PvP.
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  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    1.All ships are MK XIV have epic gear, nothing to upgrade.pvp is about skill not gear.

    2. All players have same ods against other players,no uber gear or traits.

    3. No critical hits.when shields are down you use torpedo for final kill.

    4. Players can buy from zen store for your pvp ship only cosmetic items ,price no more then 50-100 zen.

    5.Cost of the pvp ship 2500-3000 zen.

    6.With purchase of any pvp ship you pay for more maps not TRIBBLE ships.

    7.cloack for all or no cloack.

    8.No pvp skill trees.

    9.All ships are canon ships.

    10.You want more people in the game ,cant monetize pvp there is you way to do it.

    11.Same can be applied to exploaration ships.but then you pay with purchase for more planets,you buy labs for you ship etc..


    Sorry for english,not mi native language,please add comments.thx.

    May the blessings of the PvP be with you guys who long for a Trek PvP. I do not think it will ever happen in this iteration of STO, because there just is no 'critical mass' of players who want it to happen.

    We go through spurts of PvP uprisings but the lack of that special "IT-ness" is just not present. There is a definite plateau of core pvp'ers in STO but that mesa is surrounded by a massive desert in all directions.​​
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    The devs listened to the wrong crowd when they were deciding how to use their time.
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