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  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »

    Considering what the exchange is sitting at...I don't think another sink is needed. We have quite a few sinks for dil already. What we need is an EC sink. The prices on the exchange is going bloody nuts.

    Seconded.... EC prices are out of this world lately.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    lamyrs wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    MMORPG magazine even listed STO as the best F2P game on the market. It is literally listed as the most generous free to play game in existence and even that isn't enough for you whining morons!

    Seriously?
    You should read something else, coz the best F2P is Path of exile. And you should also read this.

    This. Any many more out there. There are many, many more worse out there also. I say STO is the upper middle.
    Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    Since delta rising, this game has had 3 event fleet t6 equivalent ships, all of them very good too. Also, you don't need mkxiv epic componentsbtp play the game. Mkxii is more than adequate for normal and some adv stfs. There are also enough sets as quest rewards that you could build a nice ship for nothing. Sri isn't perfect but it's model is better than swotor
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Actual taxes go to pay for something.

    While this is true it doesn't mean that real life the only reason to create or raise taxes is trying to get money. Taxes also have been introduced to artificially heighten the price of a good or a service to make it less desirable because unlimited consumption of these have adverse effects. E. g. taxes on alcoholic drinks, cigarettes, gasoline, also (which would be similar to the OP's proposal) the proposed Tobin Tax on exchange trading.

    That being said though, I don't the the value in this suggested dil/zen tax. It would discourage said trade and as such would discourage the F2P part of the game model. This in turn might mean some people would pay actual money instead of dil, more people would stop playing or settle with what they have, both would mean decreasing revenues for those players trying to get dil via zen so they would stop investing.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    Actual taxes go to pay for something.

    While this is true it doesn't mean that real life the only reason to create or raise taxes is trying to get money. Taxes also have been introduced to artificially heighten the price of a good or a service to make it less desirable because unlimited consumption of these have adverse effects. E. g. taxes on alcoholic drinks, cigarettes, gasoline, also (which would be similar to the OP's proposal) the proposed Tobin Tax on exchange trading.
    And even then, the taxes paid will be spend on something. They are not just deleted.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    So what I am getting from this is "I can't haz the stuffes, so punish those who can hazzes the stuffes, or givez me minez."

    I've been in the game since day one, never wanted or needed a lock box ship to be competitive. One doesn't need every ship in the game to be effective in the game either, I know plenty of people getting great dps in T5 ships without epic or mkXIV gear.

    The best players arent the best players because they have the "in" lockbox ship, its because they know the game inside and out and probably have a realy quick computer with a fast internet connection, the top 10% of players will still mop the floor with the average player with a run of the mill, freebie T5.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    xyquarze wrote: »
    Actual taxes go to pay for something.

    While this is true it doesn't mean that real life the only reason to create or raise taxes is trying to get money. Taxes also have been introduced to artificially heighten the price of a good or a service to make it less desirable because unlimited consumption of these have adverse effects. E. g. taxes on alcoholic drinks, cigarettes, gasoline, also (which would be similar to the OP's proposal) the proposed Tobin Tax on exchange trading.

    that's not quite accurate, the tax on these things are higher also so the tax on essential items can be lower, some people might be highly delighted if the tax on these items were lowered but there would be a lot more people upset that the tax on a loaf of bread, eggs, milk and other similar food items were increased to compensate for the loss in revenue.

    but it is true the tax on alcoholic drinks and cigarettes in countries that have social health care like the NHS in the uk in particular are there to cover the excess costs of health problems caused by the use of these items and in an attempt to dissuade people from using them in the first place.
    if the higher tax on these items were lowered a lot more people would smoke and drink to excess which would create even higher NHS costs for treatments of related ailments due to their use and the extra costs would have to come from somewhere.

    so its not just there to dissuade their use we are also receiving a lot in return not only in health care but also in lower tax on essentials.

    but think on this people - would cryptic be happy if a tax on the dil/zen exchange dissuaded players from using the feature, just think of all the money that is spent by players buying up other players dil that might not come to the game as a result of such a tax.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • rickdankorickdanko Member Posts: 470 Arc User
    So what I am getting from this is "I can't haz the stuffes, so punish those who can hazzes the stuffes, or givez me minez."

    Not sure about the spelling....or the grammar ;) but yeah, that's pretty much the sentiment....of far too many people about too many things :(

    They're not really gone, as long as we remember them
    candle_burning.gif
    Plasma Nugget
    Rayzee
    excellentawesome#4589
    torgaddon101
    raeat

    I'm allowed to disagree.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    A tiny population of whales is keeping the servers up - financially.

    Though, ever since Delta Rising, the queues have been very much dead and anyone can go in game and check for themselves.

    Yea but that’s become a problem not easily solvable.

    I don't think that's true at all, for the simple fact they haven't done anything to solve it at all. They done nothing for a year, they tried no solutions.

    Much more hilarious is that there was no problem with the queues before they created it, "it's a reporting error" remember that, at first refusing to even recognize their mistake with all the Delta Rising nerfs.

    Foolish pride seems like to me, rather than just taking care of your job.

    Well I know what you mean. Playing queues or the respective maps is basically the only thing worth doing for me in STO. That’s why I watched the queue lists with a bit of concern the past year. I know we have other options (DPS chans, fleets, friends) and I make use of those as I see fit. Still I remain depend and on queue participants most of the time.

    Seeing them still empty is puzzling for me. I mean what has cryptic done to them with Delta Rising?

    1) Fail criteria introduced
    2) Critter hit point values easily doubled in advanced, perhaps even more.
    3) Rewards nerfed from I think some 950 Dil to 750 Dil per advanced run and similar reduction on normal.

    What did they do since then to compensate?

    1) Fail criteria have been abandoned in advanced.
    2) 4 Spec Trees, Mk 14 gear, ship traits, additional trait slots... Now this stuff takes some time for players to get but if they do it very well compensates for any higher critter values. My DPS on all toons has literary tripled since DR and me and my teams burn through the contend faster than ever.
    3) We got an elite mode with 1,4k Dil rewards. Now some of the elite maps are not that hard and fairly doable. Playing the more easy and fast ones should also compensate for any reward nerfs in advanced easily (I for my part get MUCH more Dil out of queued contend than I got 1 year ago).

    So technically the obstacles should have been beaten by now by the community. Yet the queues remain empty after one year.
    That’s why I think cryptic can’t do much more and it’s rather on the player’s part now to play if they want to. Problem rather seems they simply don’t want to. :/
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    Lol, I am one of those players that comes seldom to the exchange. If it was closed, no matter how long, my game play wouldn't change an inch. I did use it to sell stuff, but it it turned out I am too lazy to deal with another game interface, so I recycle the stuff I don't need.

    BTW. D&D Online has a vendor where you can sell things, but also buy things. It is like an exchange but with a fixed price. I would also buy a game feature that auto-recycles my loot, so I don't have to swap with things in my inventory.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    xyquarze wrote: »
    Actual taxes go to pay for something.

    While this is true it doesn't mean that real life the only reason to create or raise taxes is trying to get money. Taxes also have been introduced to artificially heighten the price of a good or a service to make it less desirable because unlimited consumption of these have adverse effects. E. g. taxes on alcoholic drinks, cigarettes, gasoline, also (which would be similar to the OP's proposal) the proposed Tobin Tax on exchange trading.
    And even then, the taxes paid will be spend on something. They are not just deleted.

    Correct!

    Nope, that's the stock markets job, to create nothing from something, and take something and turn it into nothing!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    fovrel wrote: »
    Lol, I am one of those players that comes seldom to the exchange. If it was closed, no matter how long, my game play wouldn't change an inch. I did use it to sell stuff, but it it turned out I am too lazy to deal with another game interface, so I recycle the stuff I don't need.

    BTW. D&D Online has a vendor where you can sell things, but also buy things. It is like an exchange but with a fixed price. I would also buy a game feature that auto-recycles my loot, so I don't have to swap with things in my inventory.

    DDO has many things, one of which is 2 auction houses, both of which is taxed, and use 2 completely different currencies!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    A tiny population of whales is keeping the servers up - financially.

    Though, ever since Delta Rising, the queues have been very much dead and anyone can go in game and check for themselves.

    Yea but that’s become a problem not easily solvable.

    I don't think that's true at all, for the simple fact they haven't done anything to solve it at all. They done nothing for a year, they tried no solutions.

    Much more hilarious is that there was no problem with the queues before they created it, "it's a reporting error" remember that, at first refusing to even recognize their mistake with all the Delta Rising nerfs.

    Foolish pride seems like to me, rather than just taking care of your job.

    Well I know what you mean. Playing queues or the respective maps is basically the only thing worth doing for me in STO. That’s why I watched the queue lists with a bit of concern the past year. I know we have other options (DPS chans, fleets, friends) and I make use of those as I see fit. Still I remain depend and on queue participants most of the time.

    Seeing them still empty is puzzling for me. I mean what has cryptic done to them with Delta Rising?

    1) Fail criteria introduced
    2) Critter hit point values easily doubled in advanced, perhaps even more.
    3) Rewards nerfed from I think some 950 Dil to 750 Dil per advanced run and similar reduction on normal.

    What did they do since then to compensate?

    1) Fail criteria have been abandoned in advanced.
    2) 4 Spec Trees, Mk 14 gear, ship traits, additional trait slots... Now this stuff takes some time for players to get but if they do it very well compensates for any higher critter values. My DPS on all toons has literary tripled since DR and me and my teams burn through the contend faster than ever.
    3) We got an elite mode with 1,4k Dil rewards. Now some of the elite maps are not that hard and fairly doable. Playing the more easy and fast ones should also compensate for any reward nerfs in advanced easily (I for my part get MUCH more Dil out of queued contend than I got 1 year ago).

    So technically the obstacles should have been beaten by now by the community. Yet the queues remain empty after one year.
    That’s why I think cryptic can’t do much more and it’s rather on the player’s part now to play if they want to. Problem rather seems they simply don’t want to. :/

    Qs are empty becouse game is based around gear not skill.

    Dps community worked very hard to kill public Qs.Dont blame them but some elite content is not puggable,again all depend on mkXIV gear not skill.

    For many players when you put gear in front of the skill this is big deal breaker..they play tru story mission and then leave.
    Elite content shouldn't be puggable anyway. It's why it's called "Elite".

    And no one needs to run Elite Queues anyway - the elite marks can be had with Advanced.

    I think the main reason people avoid content is because it takes longer than they like for the rewards they get.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    juanvenkat wrote: »
    A tiny population of whales is keeping the servers up - financially.

    Though, ever since Delta Rising, the queues have been very much dead and anyone can go in game and check for themselves.

    Yea but that’s become a problem not easily solvable.

    I don't think that's true at all, for the simple fact they haven't done anything to solve it at all. They done nothing for a year, they tried no solutions.

    Much more hilarious is that there was no problem with the queues before they created it, "it's a reporting error" remember that, at first refusing to even recognize their mistake with all the Delta Rising nerfs.

    Foolish pride seems like to me, rather than just taking care of your job.

    Well I know what you mean. Playing queues or the respective maps is basically the only thing worth doing for me in STO. That’s why I watched the queue lists with a bit of concern the past year. I know we have other options (DPS chans, fleets, friends) and I make use of those as I see fit. Still I remain depend and on queue participants most of the time.

    Seeing them still empty is puzzling for me. I mean what has cryptic done to them with Delta Rising?

    1) Fail criteria introduced
    2) Critter hit point values easily doubled in advanced, perhaps even more.
    3) Rewards nerfed from I think some 950 Dil to 750 Dil per advanced run and similar reduction on normal.

    What did they do since then to compensate?

    1) Fail criteria have been abandoned in advanced.
    2) 4 Spec Trees, Mk 14 gear, ship traits, additional trait slots... Now this stuff takes some time for players to get but if they do it very well compensates for any higher critter values. My DPS on all toons has literary tripled since DR and me and my teams burn through the contend faster than ever.
    3) We got an elite mode with 1,4k Dil rewards. Now some of the elite maps are not that hard and fairly doable. Playing the more easy and fast ones should also compensate for any reward nerfs in advanced easily (I for my part get MUCH more Dil out of queued contend than I got 1 year ago).

    So technically the obstacles should have been beaten by now by the community. Yet the queues remain empty after one year.
    That’s why I think cryptic can’t do much more and it’s rather on the player’s part now to play if they want to. Problem rather seems they simply don’t want to. :/

    Qs are empty becouse game is based around gear not skill.

    Dps community worked very hard to kill public Qs.Dont blame them but some elite content is not puggable,again all depend on mkXIV gear not skill.

    For many players when you put gear in front of the skill this is big deal breaker..they play tru story mission and then leave.
    Elite content shouldn't be puggable anyway. It's why it's called "Elite".

    And no one needs to run Elite Queues anyway - the elite marks can be had with Advanced.

    I think the main reason people avoid content is because it takes longer than they like for the rewards they get.

    I agree, you only need to look at that awful mirror mission and how active it is to realise that its only this active because of the prize it brings.

    the simple fact is when they initially killed the queues with Delta Rising although some players left a lot of others simply realised that the reward for time ratios were much better elsewhere in the game.

    a lot of players just don't want the hassle of chasing DPS and will avoid doing elite at all costs, so until they significantly increase the rewards for advanced and maybe not so significantly for normal there is little to draw players back to the queues.

    most of the players don't need the marks for reputation and converting marks to dil is too much of a faff and equally unrewarding since they nurfed the dilithium weekend bonus on the feature so although things are better then they were it just not enough.

    having said that since all the queues are so dead it kind of makes you wonder why some players made such a fuss over the removal of some of the missions like "mine trap".

    I often wish cryptic would stop bending to the will of some forum posters, they begged and pleaded for harder pve queue missions and this was cryptics answer, they begged and pleaded for single character account unlock on event ships and look where that led us.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • fk21fk21 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Well I didn't expect so may responses, but they amounted to exactly what I expected from the community.
    I crafted these after speaking with a few "whales", and listening to comments from a few of my friends who I could not into get to join the game for anything more than a few days. While trying to figure out what key areas would prevent price hiking, and hopefully bring costs down to a manageable level for the rest of us.

    A few other comments: Most of the "whales" don't put any cash into the game. It's just a setup of having old accounts that exploited bugs when they could be exploited, and price fixing. They have all the money they will ever need, and are set in their ways. My suggestions are not to bring these down, but to shift things such that the rest of us have a glimmer of hope of being able to keep up with them. If zen store prices were lowered then a dil tax would be necessary, otherwise dil price per zen would skyrocket and everything would end up back where it is now. And zen store prices need to drop, as it is now I cant find anyone i know, fleet or otherwise that is willing to put any money into this game. The returns are just not worth it.

    My comment to exclude the super rich was not to exclude anyone who disagrees, but to exclude those who are taking advantage of the broken market. The fact is, that that no newbie can ever hope to purchase any of the lock-box ships, or any of the best skills, traits, or otherwise. I get it that the ultra rich in this game like to show off, but all your showing off is making me want to do is quit the game. I get showing off one or two cool things, but when your entire load-out is impossible for anyone who isn't willing to blow thousands on the game that is a bit overboard. I have been playing this game for nearly 2 years and i'm constantly considering quitting. But i have friends who want to try to keep it up, they are almost always complaining but are holding out for when cryptic finally fixes things. If you don't like my suggestions what would you suggest? If you don't think I don't know what I am talking about then I would suggest that it may be the other way around, or most likely somewhere in the middle.

    [Edit] Final note. if you think a quarter per key is too little. Look at the math. The chance of getting a lockbox ship is about 1/250. At the current price $10 can get you 8 keys. this means that the average person attempting to get one of these ships (using cash) will spend a little over $300. If the price were to drop to $0.25. then we could get about 40 keys for $10, this would bring the cost of lockbox ships down to an average of $62.50. Which is still more than twice any zen store ship.
  • kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    there is no bigger slaker than Sto players , they stay hours in ESD , talking about politics and rasism , and they come to forum and complain about the game being hard and expensive. I think sto players are used with the old, very easy ,content ; and everything that is new sucks.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    fk21 wrote: »
    My comment to exclude the super rich was not to exclude anyone who disagrees, but to exclude those who are taking advantage of the broken market. The fact is, that that no newbie can ever hope to purchase any of the lock-box ships, or any of the best skills, traits, or otherwise. I get it that the ultra rich in this game like to show off, but all your showing off is making me want to do is quit the game. I get showing off one or two cool things, but when your entire load-out is impossible for anyone who isn't willing to blow thousands on the game that is a bit overboard. I have been playing this game for nearly 2 years and i'm constantly considering quitting. But i have friends who want to try to keep it up, they are almost always complaining but are holding out for when cryptic finally fixes things. If you don't like my suggestions what would you suggest? If you don't think I don't know what I am talking about then I would suggest that it may be the other way around, or most likely somewhere in the middle.

    you would like to know what I suggest, take a good read of my last comment, "I often wish cryptic would stop bending to the will of some forum posters, they begged and pleaded for harder pve queue missions and this was cryptics answer, they begged and pleaded for single character account unlock on event ships and look where that led us. " if you cant understand the meaning of this comment I have nothing further to add.
    fk21 wrote: »
    [Edit] Final note. if you think a quarter per key is too little. Look at the math. The chance of getting a lockbox ship is about 1/250. At the current price $10 can get you 8 keys. this means that the average person attempting to get one of these ships (using cash) will spend a little over $300. If the price were to drop to $0.25. then we could get about 40 keys for $10, this would bring the cost of lockbox ships down to an average of $62.50. Which is still more than twice any zen store ship.

    you assume that cryptic would keep the ratio of 1/250 in your $0.25 key proposal, why are you so sure cryptic wont just alter the odds so average person attempting to get one of these ships (using cash) will still spend a little over $300.
    I am pretty sure that even if keys were only 1zen each cryptic would still insure they ended up with the same profit margin by altering the ratio to reflect the lower cost of keys.
    so altering the price form $1.25 to $0.25 you would probably end up with 1/1250 chance of winning a ship.

    perhaps you should highlight the gist of that comment again - "I often wish cryptic would stop bending to the will of some forum posters. "

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    If you are willing to invest your time and money into the game to get a highly prized item, you do not deserve it. Those who have them got them by playing the game and spending money.

    Calling for a change to the economy to lower to bar for F2Pers to get P2W stuff is the lazy way to do it.

    Lastly, claiming the only reason are rich in game is due to exploits is just another way for you to project your anger.

    You get to play off the thousands who bought an LTS and zen. How about you be thankful for us for supporting the game and grind some contraband for us to buy.
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    null
  • yukonsamyukonsam Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    Bottom line is that lockbox ships are rare by design, sometimes beautiful, exotic... and utterly and completely unnecessary to play the game at any level. Would I like to own the entire collection? Yes, yes I would. Am I willing to invest the time and/or money to get even a single T6 lockbox ship? Not so much.

  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    I was a whale and may still be but I only buy Zen when it's on sale and keys when they are on sale. Then I sell them because it is easier to get what you want or need. I'll only open boxes when I need lobi for something in the store. I could spend the hours to grind the dil for the Zen but my wife would shoot me and rightfully so. This game is easy I only upgraded to the arbiter when it was available and still use at5u on my eng 92nd run advanced no issue.

    There is no issue with the economy just players who want the shinies that we either bought or ground dil for without putting the time in.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • rickdankorickdanko Member Posts: 470 Arc User
    fk21 wrote: »
    I have been playing this game for nearly 2 years and i'm constantly considering quitting. But i have friends who want to try to keep it up, they are almost always complaining but are holding out for when cryptic finally fixes things. If you don't like my suggestions what would you suggest?

    I suggest you just get on with it and quit already. That's what I suggest. You're obviously not happy with the game. Why are you sticking with something that makes you miserable? There's bound to be an MMO out there with an economy that's more faaaaaaaiiiiiiiirrr. Why not play that one?

    You'll also find yourself much happier if you focus on your build and skills. The kind of gear someone has, and how they got it is nobody's damned business but theirs.

    They're not really gone, as long as we remember them
    candle_burning.gif
    Plasma Nugget
    Rayzee
    excellentawesome#4589
    torgaddon101
    raeat

    I'm allowed to disagree.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    fk21 wrote: »
    Well I didn't expect so may responses, but they amounted to exactly what I expected from the community.
    I crafted these after speaking with a few "whales", and listening to comments from a few of my friends who I could not into get to join the game for anything more than a few days. While trying to figure out what key areas would prevent price hiking, and hopefully bring costs down to a manageable level for the rest of us.

    A few other comments: Most of the "whales" don't put any cash into the game. It's just a setup of having old accounts that exploited bugs when they could be exploited, and price fixing. They have all the money they will ever need, and are set in their ways. My suggestions are not to bring these down, but to shift things such that the rest of us have a glimmer of hope of being able to keep up with them. If zen store prices were lowered then a dil tax would be necessary, otherwise dil price per zen would skyrocket and everything would end up back where it is now. And zen store prices need to drop, as it is now I cant find anyone i know, fleet or otherwise that is willing to put any money into this game. The returns are just not worth it.

    My comment to exclude the super rich was not to exclude anyone who disagrees, but to exclude those who are taking advantage of the broken market. The fact is, that that no newbie can ever hope to purchase any of the lock-box ships, or any of the best skills, traits, or otherwise. I get it that the ultra rich in this game like to show off, but all your showing off is making me want to do is quit the game. I get showing off one or two cool things, but when your entire load-out is impossible for anyone who isn't willing to blow thousands on the game that is a bit overboard. I have been playing this game for nearly 2 years and i'm constantly considering quitting. But i have friends who want to try to keep it up, they are almost always complaining but are holding out for when cryptic finally fixes things. If you don't like my suggestions what would you suggest? If you don't think I don't know what I am talking about then I would suggest that it may be the other way around, or most likely somewhere in the middle.

    [Edit] Final note. if you think a quarter per key is too little. Look at the math. The chance of getting a lockbox ship is about 1/250. At the current price $10 can get you 8 keys. this means that the average person attempting to get one of these ships (using cash) will spend a little over $300. If the price were to drop to $0.25. then we could get about 40 keys for $10, this would bring the cost of lockbox ships down to an average of $62.50. Which is still more than twice any zen store ship.

    This is the kind of thing that's easy to solve with education, an ignorance problem.

    The cost of one lockbox ship isnt the same as the cost of 250 keys. The answer should be obvious - the side loot from the boxes.

    for 250 keys, on average, one ship and a lot of lobi and other side-loot are produced. The ship only makes up a small portion of this value. Consider a ship worth 150m ec. 250 keys is 1.15b ec. but the ship doesnt cost 1.15b ec on the exchange does it?

    Contrary to another viewpoint that can be corrected with education, the opinion that "prices are high because of price fixing," sto prices are actually very rational and the market is efficient. A 150m lockbox ships costs something on the order of 13% of the value of 250 keys because much of the value obtained from using the keys comes from the side-loot and lobi.

    If the ship cost significantly more, you would be able to get significantly more than 4.6m worth, on average, from each key you used, and people would drive key prices up or ship prices down by doing that as much as they could, until it reached equilibrium again.

    Education about the sto economy is so important to people who don't know much about it, and ignorance is the source of a lot of frustration.

    The fact of the matter is, prices of almost all items in sto are heavily dependent on the cost to produce them, whether through crafting or opening lockboxes or promo packs.

    As to the author of the post above, i'm sorry if you wasted your time 'consulting with whales' or whatever. You talked to the wrong people and you've been lead down the wrong path.

    i was going to bring up the other lockbox content but I didn't want to muddy the waters and just end up confusing the OP who seems to be confused enough by logic already.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    fk21 wrote: »
    Well I didn't expect so may responses, but they amounted to exactly what I expected from the community.
    I crafted these after speaking with a few "whales", and listening to comments from a few of my friends who I could not into get to join the game for anything more than a few days. While trying to figure out what key areas would prevent price hiking, and hopefully bring costs down to a manageable level for the rest of us.

    A few other comments: Most of the "whales" don't put any cash into the game. It's just a setup of having old accounts that exploited bugs when they could be exploited, and price fixing. They have all the money they will ever need, and are set in their ways. My suggestions are not to bring these down, but to shift things such that the rest of us have a glimmer of hope of being able to keep up with them. If zen store prices were lowered then a dil tax would be necessary, otherwise dil price per zen would skyrocket and everything would end up back where it is now. And zen store prices need to drop, as it is now I cant find anyone i know, fleet or otherwise that is willing to put any money into this game. The returns are just not worth it.

    My comment to exclude the super rich was not to exclude anyone who disagrees, but to exclude those who are taking advantage of the broken market. The fact is, that that no newbie can ever hope to purchase any of the lock-box ships, or any of the best skills, traits, or otherwise. I get it that the ultra rich in this game like to show off, but all your showing off is making me want to do is quit the game. I get showing off one or two cool things, but when your entire load-out is impossible for anyone who isn't willing to blow thousands on the game that is a bit overboard. I have been playing this game for nearly 2 years and i'm constantly considering quitting. But i have friends who want to try to keep it up, they are almost always complaining but are holding out for when cryptic finally fixes things. If you don't like my suggestions what would you suggest? If you don't think I don't know what I am talking about then I would suggest that it may be the other way around, or most likely somewhere in the middle.

    [Edit] Final note. if you think a quarter per key is too little. Look at the math. The chance of getting a lockbox ship is about 1/250. At the current price $10 can get you 8 keys. this means that the average person attempting to get one of these ships (using cash) will spend a little over $300. If the price were to drop to $0.25. then we could get about 40 keys for $10, this would bring the cost of lockbox ships down to an average of $62.50. Which is still more than twice any zen store ship.

    This is the kind of thing that's easy to solve with education, an ignorance problem.

    The cost of one lockbox ship isnt the same as the cost of 250 keys. The answer should be obvious - the side loot from the boxes.

    for 250 keys, on average, one ship and a lot of lobi and other side-loot are produced. The ship only makes up a small portion of this value. Consider a ship worth 150m ec. 250 keys is 1.15b ec. but the ship doesnt cost 1.15b ec on the exchange does it?

    Contrary to another viewpoint that can be corrected with education, the opinion that "prices are high because of price fixing," sto prices are actually very rational and the market is efficient. A 150m lockbox ships costs something on the order of 13% of the value of 250 keys because much of the value obtained from using the keys comes from the side-loot and lobi.

    If the ship cost significantly more, you would be able to get significantly more than 4.6m worth, on average, from each key you used, and people would drive key prices up or ship prices down by doing that as much as they could, until it reached equilibrium again.

    Education about the sto economy is so important to people who don't know much about it, and ignorance is the source of a lot of frustration.

    The fact of the matter is, prices of almost all items in sto are heavily dependent on the cost to produce them, whether through crafting or opening lockboxes or promo packs.

    As to the author of the post above, i'm sorry if you wasted your time 'consulting with whales' or whatever. You talked to the wrong people and you've been lead down the wrong path.

    Well, considering the Iconian ships seem to be selling in the neighborhood of 800+mill, than all of the left over goodies from those 250 keys, IMO more than makes up the difference of the 250 keys value alone!

    Granted, the ship(s) are not easily obtained, but 1 alone is equal to 165 keys easy by itself.
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    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

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