Changing over to a dilithium based exchange would raise even more cries of Pay to Win, and probably destroy the Dilithium Exchange as we know it. Don't have enough dil for that trait you want that's listed? Go but some Zen and trade it on the Exchange. Pay to Win. Oh, and multiply that by X players, and you'll devalue Zen, which is Cryptic's bread and butter.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
I can speak only for myself, but I think what all of these kinds of topics really boil down to is want and a feeling that something is out of reach. It doesn't FEEL good to believe - rightly or wrongly - that you just can't have something you want, even if it's a low-level want.
As someone with over 2 billion EC & 2.5 million refined dilithium, I know how to make currency in-game, yet if I wanted to get each of my characters a good gamble ship (Annorax, Sheshar, Wells, etc.) I'm nowhere near affording getting each of them even one without getting almost impossibly lucky. Whether I need those ships or not doesn't really matter. It's the idea that it feels too far off - possibly years - in the current game state for me to have a real shot at getting them.
That doesn't FEEL good, especially when I think of how much effort went into just getting to where I am. Thinking of what happened with the JHAS T6 replacement fiasco, potentially years of work just doesn't feel like it's worth the pay-off, either.
Feelings aren't rational, they're not logical, and they might change tomorrow as new information comes to light, but this is where I'm at and I'd imagine at least a few others are right now. Maybe there are tricks and secrets I'm not aware of that would get me everything I want. No, I absolutely don't NEED to have everything in the game and really don't want to. But at the end of the day it also doesn't feel good to know that 2 billion EC would only buy at most 3 characters an Annorax, or that 15,500 zen (fake currency valued at about $155 worth of real life currency) will only buy me 9 ships - on sale - out of the dozens available.
That's an incredible amount of money to think about spending on just a video game when you realize that a brand new, AAA, full game costs $60. True, I didn't pay real money for it, but it took a lot of time and I'm sure the company would prefer that I had spent real cash. I'm not opposed to spending money, but I have to feel like the money is worth what I'm getting.
I'm not saying everyone should have everything, just that it should at least feel attainable. Right now, for me and at least a few other players I know, it doesn't. Others disagree, I get that and don't blame them. Some people look at the challenge of earning enough over years for that final pay-off, or save up to just buy the one or two things they dearly want and forget everything else, but I know plenty of others who are just turned off by this.
I believe that - to stay healthy and growing - the game needs both types of players (big spenders and small spenders), and right now it FEELS like it's really only catering to one. You can compare it to a thousand other games I've never played and never will play, you can say that something I've never heard of is infinitely worse, but that doesn't change the fact that $155 is still a lot of money to drop on a game for only a fraction of the content.
All the content is FREE, the ships aren't. The ships don't limit the content you can play. I am more upset that we dont get that much additional content every season. If there was enough content coming through, some people wouldnt be focusing on not having a lockbox ship.
If all people spent on the game was $155, thats not much revenue for the game, is it. BTW, when the game started, if you paid a years sub in advance, it was $10/month ($120.00), and got no C/Z store ships at all, just admission to th content.
Instead of complaining about people who actually gambled and got the prized items, and sell it to others who wish to gamble (albeit it for a lot of ec), complain about the whole lockbox process. Better yet, dont participate in the lockbox process buy either buy/use keys or buying prize items items on he exchange. The less people who partake in the silliness make it less profitable for the exchange marketeers AND Cryptic.
Changing over to a dilithium based exchange would raise even more cries of Pay to Win, and probably destroy the Dilithium Exchange as we know it. Don't have enough dil for that trait you want that's listed? Go but some Zen and trade it on the Exchange. Pay to Win. Oh, and multiply that by X players, and you'll devalue Zen, which is Cryptic's bread and butter.
Assuming a switch to a dilithium based auction house would cause a run on the dilithium exchange (and it probably would, yes), what that means is that a whole lot of Zen was paid to other players in exchange for their dil. It would also take a lot of dil off the market and drive the price of Zen down if anything. That means that yes, a person with a lot of cash could pay to win, but they can do that right now by buying keys or ship modules. I could max out my EC cap right now if I tossed enough money in. At least in my scenario, a F2P player with a lot of time to grind dil also benefits greatly because the buying power of their dil goes up, allowing them access to more cash shop items. Dilithium represents time, Zen represents real world cash. Some players have more of one or the other, and the ability to trade them maintains the balance.
Now, I've heard that NW had a huge problem of inflation on their auction house, but as I understand that was due to insufficient sinks for their dil equivalent. STO doesn't have that problem, if anything people complain we have too many dil sinks.
Changing over to a dilithium based exchange would raise even more cries of Pay to Win, and probably destroy the Dilithium Exchange as we know it. Don't have enough dil for that trait you want that's listed? Go but some Zen and trade it on the Exchange. Pay to Win. Oh, and multiply that by X players, and you'll devalue Zen, which is Cryptic's bread and butter.
Assuming a switch to a dilithium based auction house would cause a run on the dilithium exchange (and it probably would, yes), what that means is that a whole lot of Zen was paid to other players in exchange for their dil. It would also take a lot of dil off the market and drive the price of Zen down if anything. That means that yes, a person with a lot of cash could pay to win, but they can do that right now by buying keys or ship modules. I could max out my EC cap right now if I tossed enough money in. At least in my scenario, a F2P player with a lot of time to grind dil also benefits greatly because the buying power of their dil goes up, allowing them access to more cash shop items. Dilithium represents time, Zen represents real world cash. Some players have more of one or the other, and the ability to trade them maintains the balance.
Now, I've heard that NW had a huge problem of inflation on their auction house, but as I understand that was due to insufficient sinks for their dil equivalent. STO doesn't have that problem, if anything people complain we have too many dil sinks.
I recall an exploit where you could put in a negative amount of AD in the auction house and get paid in AD instead of being charged AD which was not rolled back before the game went live "for real". I just ignored the exchange and then eventually the game.
The leadership farmers, with an easily scripted web interface none-the-less, meant the average non-exploiting player wasn't going to be able to make any F2P headway in AD->Zen.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If you want to see how bad making dil the exchange currency is, look at neverwinter.
You're saying there's something wrong when the AD was(still is?) constantly pegged at the max per Zen exchange rate and if you're not exploiting you've got no chance of affording anything of value with normal gameplay? /sarcasm
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Aren't the KDF still just contraband farming alts for rich Feddy mains?
MY God, the dishonor...
Living life as a Klingon, only to farm contraband for the Federation...
There will be no Sto'Vo'Kor for these sad, lame, warriors.
Never knowing the glory of battle, never knowing the weighted feel of a bat'leth in hand.
Fading away, rather then burning out in glorious battle.
All the content is FREE, the ships aren't. The ships don't limit the content you can play. I am more upset that we dont get that much additional content every season. If there was enough content coming through, some people wouldnt be focusing on not having a lockbox ship.
I'll agree with you there on content. I'd love to see more stories, independent episodes (Star Trek was largely serialized, after all), even duty officer chains and now admiralty campaigns to flesh out the game instead of more ships. Maybe some kind of personal scavenger hunt akin to the TNG episode "The Chase" sending you to different systems around the map.
But the idea of having ships seen on TV - at least for me - goes beyond not just having other things to focus on. There's a novelty factor to having a Galor class ship. I'd like to have it, but it's not a serious want that's worth the current costs so just gets written off.
For personal entertainment - which is all a video game is - shouldn't it be the opposite that you look forward to all of those gleeful moments of getting something you wanted rather than just resigning yourself to never actually getting it? I can just go buy the Eaglemoss real-life model instead for $15-20, and that's something I get for sure and can keep forever.
Instead of complaining about people who actually gambled and got the prized items, and sell it to others who wish to gamble (albeit it for a lot of ec), complain about the whole lockbox process. Better yet, dont participate in the lockbox process buy either buy/use keys or buying prize items items on he exchange. The less people who partake in the silliness make it less profitable for the exchange marketeers AND Cryptic.
To be clear, I'm not actually complaining about anything myself, just voicing my feelings and the sentiment that a few other people have shared with me. I do believe - and I'm thinking we're in agreement here - that the entire lockbox/promo randomness needs to be revisited - something like every item being purchasable with Lobi so that, even if I don't get the prize I want, I make progress towards getting it. Someone had previously suggested this with a delay that maybe only items 6 or 12+ months old get added, which I'd be fine with.
That might make some people spend less on the gamble items (because they can get it without spending hundreds of dollars), but done right it may encourage a lot more people to participate. I don't right now because, honestly, the values just aren't there for me.
I don't object to spending money, but I need to feel like I'm getting something out of it. In the current system, I don't.
If all people spent on the game was $155, thats not much revenue for the game, is it.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I say that $155 for a video game is a HELL of a lot of money, for a house an incredible steal. Valuation is really subjective, and varies on so many factors. I have no problem spending money, but I need to feel like there's a value behind it. Right now, it just doesn't feel like there is to me, and that's not a good feeling.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I say that $155 for a video game is a HELL of a lot of money, for a house an incredible steal. Valuation is really subjective, and varies on so many factors. I have no problem spending money, but I need to feel like there's a value behind it. Right now, it just doesn't feel like there is to me, and that's not a good feeling.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Even NON MMOs will top three digits these days with their DLC and what not. $155 for a MMO is a freaking drop in the bucket. Think about the old sub system. You pay 15 bucks a month for what, 6 years now. That is over a grand. Hell, I have been at this game for under 2 years and I would have spent more then that on sub if they used that model.
I agree with this.
also though $155 might seem a lot to you when compared to a stand alone pc game but don't forget there are not many stand alone games that offer the same longevity as an MMO, you might get a few months of play from a stand alone game but online games can be and are played for years with continual updates with new content and special events going on all of the time.
if you compare the time spent playing to what you spend overall an MMO is better value by far and sto even more so as you can go the whole time without spending a dime without any crippling limitations that other so called free to play games impose on non paying players.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
As someone with over 2 billion EC & 2.5 million refined dilithium, I know how to make currency in-game, yet if I wanted to get each of my characters a good gamble ship (Annorax, Sheshar, Wells, etc.) I'm nowhere near affording getting each of them even one without getting almost impossibly lucky. Whether I need those ships or not doesn't really matter. It's the idea that it feels too far off - possibly years - in the current game state for me to have a real shot at getting them.
That doesn't FEEL good, especially when I think of how much effort went into just getting to where I am. Thinking of what happened with the JHAS T6 replacement fiasco, potentially years of work just doesn't feel like it's worth the pay-off, either.
Feelings aren't rational, they're not logical, and they might change tomorrow as new information comes to light, but this is where I'm at and I'd imagine at least a few others are right now. Maybe there are tricks and secrets I'm not aware of that would get me everything I want. No, I absolutely don't NEED to have everything in the game and really don't want to. But at the end of the day it also doesn't feel good to know that 2 billion EC would only buy at most 3 characters an Annorax, or that 15,500 zen (fake currency valued at about $155 worth of real life currency) will only buy me 9 ships - on sale - out of the dozens available.
That's an incredible amount of money to think about spending on just a video game when you realize that a brand new, AAA, full game costs $60. True, I didn't pay real money for it, but it took a lot of time and I'm sure the company would prefer that I had spent real cash. I'm not opposed to spending money, but I have to feel like the money is worth what I'm getting.
I'm not saying everyone should have everything, just that it should at least feel attainable. Right now, for me and at least a few other players I know, it doesn't. Others disagree, I get that and don't blame them. Some people look at the challenge of earning enough over years for that final pay-off, or save up to just buy the one or two things they dearly want and forget everything else, but I know plenty of others who are just turned off by this.
I believe that - to stay healthy and growing - the game needs both types of players (big spenders and small spenders), and right now it FEELS like it's really only catering to one. You can compare it to a thousand other games I've never played and never will play, you can say that something I've never heard of is infinitely worse, but that doesn't change the fact that $155 is still a lot of money to drop on a game for only a fraction of the content.
While I understand where you are coming from:
All the content is FREE, the ships aren't. The ships don't limit the content you can play. I am more upset that we dont get that much additional content every season. If there was enough content coming through, some people wouldnt be focusing on not having a lockbox ship.
If all people spent on the game was $155, thats not much revenue for the game, is it. BTW, when the game started, if you paid a years sub in advance, it was $10/month ($120.00), and got no C/Z store ships at all, just admission to th content.
Instead of complaining about people who actually gambled and got the prized items, and sell it to others who wish to gamble (albeit it for a lot of ec), complain about the whole lockbox process. Better yet, dont participate in the lockbox process buy either buy/use keys or buying prize items items on he exchange. The less people who partake in the silliness make it less profitable for the exchange marketeers AND Cryptic.
Assuming a switch to a dilithium based auction house would cause a run on the dilithium exchange (and it probably would, yes), what that means is that a whole lot of Zen was paid to other players in exchange for their dil. It would also take a lot of dil off the market and drive the price of Zen down if anything. That means that yes, a person with a lot of cash could pay to win, but they can do that right now by buying keys or ship modules. I could max out my EC cap right now if I tossed enough money in. At least in my scenario, a F2P player with a lot of time to grind dil also benefits greatly because the buying power of their dil goes up, allowing them access to more cash shop items. Dilithium represents time, Zen represents real world cash. Some players have more of one or the other, and the ability to trade them maintains the balance.
Now, I've heard that NW had a huge problem of inflation on their auction house, but as I understand that was due to insufficient sinks for their dil equivalent. STO doesn't have that problem, if anything people complain we have too many dil sinks.
I recall an exploit where you could put in a negative amount of AD in the auction house and get paid in AD instead of being charged AD which was not rolled back before the game went live "for real". I just ignored the exchange and then eventually the game.
The leadership farmers, with an easily scripted web interface none-the-less, meant the average non-exploiting player wasn't going to be able to make any F2P headway in AD->Zen.
You're saying there's something wrong when the AD was(still is?) constantly pegged at the max per Zen exchange rate and if you're not exploiting you've got no chance of affording anything of value with normal gameplay? /sarcasm
*single manly tear*
I'll agree with you there on content. I'd love to see more stories, independent episodes (Star Trek was largely serialized, after all), even duty officer chains and now admiralty campaigns to flesh out the game instead of more ships. Maybe some kind of personal scavenger hunt akin to the TNG episode "The Chase" sending you to different systems around the map.
But the idea of having ships seen on TV - at least for me - goes beyond not just having other things to focus on. There's a novelty factor to having a Galor class ship. I'd like to have it, but it's not a serious want that's worth the current costs so just gets written off.
For personal entertainment - which is all a video game is - shouldn't it be the opposite that you look forward to all of those gleeful moments of getting something you wanted rather than just resigning yourself to never actually getting it? I can just go buy the Eaglemoss real-life model instead for $15-20, and that's something I get for sure and can keep forever.
To be clear, I'm not actually complaining about anything myself, just voicing my feelings and the sentiment that a few other people have shared with me. I do believe - and I'm thinking we're in agreement here - that the entire lockbox/promo randomness needs to be revisited - something like every item being purchasable with Lobi so that, even if I don't get the prize I want, I make progress towards getting it. Someone had previously suggested this with a delay that maybe only items 6 or 12+ months old get added, which I'd be fine with.
That might make some people spend less on the gamble items (because they can get it without spending hundreds of dollars), but done right it may encourage a lot more people to participate. I don't right now because, honestly, the values just aren't there for me.
I don't object to spending money, but I need to feel like I'm getting something out of it. In the current system, I don't.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I say that $155 for a video game is a HELL of a lot of money, for a house an incredible steal. Valuation is really subjective, and varies on so many factors. I have no problem spending money, but I need to feel like there's a value behind it. Right now, it just doesn't feel like there is to me, and that's not a good feeling.
I agree with this.
also though $155 might seem a lot to you when compared to a stand alone pc game but don't forget there are not many stand alone games that offer the same longevity as an MMO, you might get a few months of play from a stand alone game but online games can be and are played for years with continual updates with new content and special events going on all of the time.
if you compare the time spent playing to what you spend overall an MMO is better value by far and sto even more so as you can go the whole time without spending a dime without any crippling limitations that other so called free to play games impose on non paying players.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.