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T6 Defiant solutions please
postinggum
Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
Lots of moaning and people moaning about moaning and moaning about the meta moaning.... Anywho, can interested players actually come to some suggestions that the devs could take seriously?
I think limitations would include: possible applicability to T6 bop and T'Varo; not messing with other cstore, lobi or lockbox items so sales are not reduced, eg. no built-in cloak or free fleet upgrade etc; not realigning the weapons, escorts are escorts, not pilot ships; no visual redesign necessary; nothing obviously OP.
I think limitations would include: possible applicability to T6 bop and T'Varo; not messing with other cstore, lobi or lockbox items so sales are not reduced, eg. no built-in cloak or free fleet upgrade etc; not realigning the weapons, escorts are escorts, not pilot ships; no visual redesign necessary; nothing obviously OP.
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The Phantom has the Valiant beat in every way. The specialization abilities aside, the Phantom has;
A Lt. Com Eng slot vs. an Lt. Universal slot. I might add that the Valiant has several thousand more Hp, but otherwise they're identical.
The way I see it, the Valiant not only needs to have something to make it distinct from the Phantom, but a buff period. Ergo, give it a 5/2 layout.
And the logical extension point for the set bonuses would be using the Quad Cannons. I think there isn't really a basis to use anything else. All the Tier 6 Retrofits have similar stat changes - one bridge officer seat is upgraded a level, one Lt.Cmdr or Lt. seat becomes a hybrid seat ,and maybe something turns universal.
Canonical material for special abilities.
- Cloak is already in, but it was really a feature of the original defiant, not the prototype itself. It was not build with one in mind, it was just installed after-market. Making the cloak a battle cloak as a 3-piece bonus might be okay, but maybe not.
- Ablative Armour. The ablative armour made the ship tougher. I wouldn't want to give it an Ablative Armour console effects, since that effect is weak, but maybe something like an increasing resistance bonus the more damage the Defiant has suffered? Or temporary hit points when it loses a shield facing?
- Cannons. The Defiant was the first Starfleet vessel (at least in the TNG era) to use pulse cannons. Maybe give it a damage buff to cannons. Or something related to using cannons, at least. Say, add a bit of shield penetration or cause a damage resistance debuff (Disruptor Proc?).
- Agility. Maybe give it an increasing defense and turn rate bonus each time it gets hit.
- Dual Quantum Torpedo Launcher. This sounds more like a special item than a 3rd set ability, but maybe something can be done with it. Perhaps, whenever you fire quantum torpedoes unbuffed, you fire two? (But that would colllide with the new Terran reputation trait or set ability?)
- Sisko's ship. It was the ship of the Emissary. Give it the ability to stop time. Okay, that's silly. Just checking if you're still reading.
- Used in wormhole experiment. Maybe give it the ability to create an unstable wormhole. Ships near the wormhole get teleported around and are confused. Also a bit too silly, perhaps.
- Used in analysising a Subspace Compression Field: Allow it to become super-small and allow people to turn in their ship on ground. Wow, the silly ideas won't stop coming.
- Anti-Borg Weapon. Make it blow up Borg Cubes in 5 seconds. No, wait, you don't need a console for that.
Oh, another idea, stolen and extrapolated from another poster:
War Hero
Variant 1: Single Handedly Won The Dominion War (in the mind and hearts of its fans at least): 2 minute Recharge. For 20 seconds, you and your allies within 10 km gain a +25 % bonus damage.
Variant 2: Others Took The Hit For You (In the mind and hearts of Miranda fans): When a shield facing is defeated, restore 500 shield to that facing and summon a Miranda at 25 % hull and no shields. The Miranda gains all threat you have, and you lose all threat. This effect can not happen more than twice in 2 minutes.
Variant 3: Klingons Save the Day (For the KDF fans): When at 50 % or less hull, you can summon a Vor'Cha and 2 Bird of Preys to your aid. cannot be used more than once in 5 minutes.
Variant 1 and 3 also work for the BOP.
Actual defiant Has no stand alone feature. Neither the Set Nor the ship.
I suggest 2PC Set. Quad and war module. Bonus:
V1: dual Quantum Torpedo launcher.
V2: improved rapid fire Quads or armor Pen bonus
To bring some flavour into the ship
V1. 3pc Set with stupid cloak console. Weak battlecloak with a longer Cool down Timer than Rom and kdf. But cloak in combat. Everything else is useless.
V2. Fix installed Quads as 5th front weapon. Take away 3rd aft ( maybe with rapidfire 1 like the tempests tailgun )
V3. Raider bonus 15%
Alternatively I could see a battlecloak for the Defiant being added as the 2pc set bonus, the T6 console is powerful enough to stand on it's own but a battlecloak 2pc would give people a reason to buy the T5 and use the cloak console over something else.
They more likely might replace the 2pc set bonus from the useless -4 second cooldown to an ability that gives the Valiant battlecloak. They as much as did put fixed quantum torpedo launchers up front which suits me fine. None more needs to be done there. Raider flanking sounds like a good idea. I would hate to leave the Malem out of it, but it's already too fine a ship, that flanking on top would push it into OP. Add the 4 shooters to the console set and let the 3pc bonus then be the -4 second cloak cooldown, only after giving it battlecloak on the 2pc bonus.
As to the Kor, it won't have the 3pc bonus. It already has battlecloak so there is no need for the set bonus to include one. It could do with some tougher hull that can take a few more shots instead of being a debris field on a lucky crit. And I don't know why they got their torp console switched to the quantums. The Defiant fans at last got theirs, but B'rel fans weren't as fond of it. It should be back to photons where it belongs if they have to de-couple the feature from the Valiant to do so. Defiant packs q-torps, B'rel packs pho-torps. Why change either one now?
The Malem is actually a decent attack ship so I'm going to keep my idea here purely about the cosmetic. It needs a beak.
The most simple solution would be to add a 5/2 layout. Bug testing the set bonuses and consoles would be complicated.
Wait....
I Got 7of9 on my bridge Not Bad at all
Which isn't realistic and opens up a slippery slope...if they make special dues for the Valiant then what is to stop people from justifiably asking for 5/2 for every other Escort? Phantom would be a big one since it's a Specialization ship...what about the new MVAE? Why not give it 5/2? WHat about Sci ships? Well what about the Vesta? It can use cannons efficiently and even has its own special cannon...why not give it 4/2?
See where I'm going with this?
The best bet I would imagine is a better set bonus and a 3 piece set including the Quad Cannons...maybe the Kor can get a 3 piece set as well with the Disruptor Quads...since they do come from a BoP.
Hey! Back off! Some of us want our unreasonable 5/2, pilot maneuvers equipped, integrated battlecloaked, god ship, is that OK with you?
This isn't about making a ship more op. It's about identity. The Valiant is presented as a bog standard gun platform. It lacks versatility and survivability, but it's also deficient in terms of firepower. It can't slot EPtW3. It can't Override Subsystem Safeties. I have yet to see anyone argue the merit of the Tactical/Pilot Lt. Com hybrid seat.
And you write of a slippery slope? Guess what? The Klingons have a ship that's very similar to the Valiant, the Mat'Ha, and it has a 5/2 layout. It's a heavy duty raptor.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mat'Ha_Raptor
I want the Valiant to be a lighter, cloakless version of that ship. Does that sound unreasonable to you?
As much as I like the Quad Cannons, ships should not be balanced around using specific equipment.
I want a 4/2 Vesta...you going to support that? I don't see people complaining about how the Dreadnought is inferior to the Presidio in every way...don't see people asking for the Dread to be 5/3 like other Dreads.
Just because you and others feel the Valiant is weak doesn't mean it is...just because it isn't as powerful as the strongest top of the line escorts doesn't mean it's weak...didn't see all of this complaining about the MVAE...how could the MVAE be sufficient yet the Valiant is weak? Stats are basically the same...yet one is weak and one isn't? The one with the better specialization is weaker?
So you don't get dual Lt Cmdrs...the Pilot Escorts don't either...is it so bad something be somewhat unique and not the most powerful thing? I guess for some people it is...
Why would I? I mean, most people would run the Vesta as a torpedo boat with the Aux cannons thrown on for good measure. It works very well to that end.
The Yamato is not inferior to the Presidio, and a 5/3 layout is not as advantageous for Dreadnoughts/Cruisers as a 5/2 is for Escorts.
I haven't been advocating that it be the best. I've been advocating that it's soundly inferior to all of it's counterparts across all factions lacking both power and identity. It's a boring hamstrung ship. The only thrill people will get out of the Valiant will be the satisfaction of flying a T6 Defiant. Performance wise there are many ships that match or exceed it, while having extra stuff.
If a ship doesn't have something unique, you're basically spending 30+ dollars for a ship's skin.
And again, what do you think of the Mat'Ha? Don't you think the comparison is apt?
Andromeda? Advanced Escort? Alita? Pathfinder? What's special about them?
Not a single one of them has something beyond a unique console and use the lower tier ship consoles. Which is exactly what the Defiant has. Or the Battle Cruiser. Or the Yamato.
In all fairness that extra gunslot is going to have to apply for the Kor/Malem too. fixed quad or not, it's a battlecruiser setup on an escort, where the Kor suffers a -1 gunslot as it is. 5/2 Kor next to a 5/3 Valiant is acceptable if yet unlikely for both. 4/2 Kor next to a 5/3 Valiant is just plain fking over the KDF.
I've already informed you numerous times why they're special in their own way. With the exception of the Pathfinder, they're all unique and not strictly outdone by a specialized ship or a peer vessel. Even the Andromeda has something going for it over the Yamato, despite people's claims that the ships are identical aside from the Yamato's lance and hangar bay.
I've suggested that the torpedo console be baked into the ships. However, the Kor does not face the same problems as the Valiant. For one, it's a T6 Raider and the B'rel line of ships is unique in the KDF. Maybe having a bunch of universal boff seats is of dubious worth, but it's still a unique feature.
As for the Malem...I actually wonder about it. Like the Valiant, it seems like a watered down version of a blatantly superior intelligence ship, only not anywhere near as bad since the Malem is slightly slower and heavier than the Faeht with a bit more flexibility in the form a Lt. Com Universal seat vs an ensign universal.
Regardless, there's no where near as much to complain about in regards to the Kor and Malem compared to the Valiant.
That's usually how it is with Fed. They get the worst stuff, while Klings and Roms get fewer things. Quality over quantity.
It's truly awful when Kling get ships that are identical to or slightly superior to Fed, only with the addition of a cloak. It's mind-boggling how that can come to pass!
Oh, hey, what's that?
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Qib_Intel_Battlecruiser
It's the Qib Intel Battlecruiser!
And what's that!?
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Eclipse_Intel_Cruiser
It's the Eclipse Intel Battlecruiser! They're virtually identical...except the Qib is slightly faster, has more hp, and a battlecloak over a regular one!
And what was it that was added recently to a lockbox? Reciprocity? Hm, now why would Cryptic go and do a thing like that, adding a popular and powerful starship trait to a lockbox?
About the only thing Klingons aren't better at over Fed is the Admiralty System. Even Doffing is easier for Klingons since all they need to do is focus on acquiring Tactical Doffs and spam marauder missions to get more contraband, commodities, and prisoners than they know what to do with!
Having 4 Kling characters myself, I know exactly how good the Kling faction has it, and in all honesty the only deficiency they've got is the number of players to make the faction worth playing in it's own right, but even that Cryptic has resolved by opening up all content to every player regardless of their faction.
Wow really? Either you're completely delusional or your bold face lying to try and prove your point...The Presidio is better than the Dreadnought in every single way except for the fact the Yamato have 2 Lt Cmdrs and it has weapon system efficiency...3 I suppose if you want to consider the weak lance...
The Presidio has slightly stronger shields, similar hull strength...but after that...the Presidio has less crew, 2 more turn rate, 10 more inertia, a 3rd Sci console, and better bonus power distribution.
The Andromeda has nothing going for it over the Yamato except a different gimmick console...in fact the Andromeda is even worse than that...it's ship traits are purely defensive in a game where DPS trumps everything.
The Advanced Escort is pretty similar to the Manticore...Manticore is better for DPS than the AE. Only reason I see to get the AE is if you don't have the vet ship.
Wow...you really have some gall claiming the KDF are better at everything but the Admiralty system...the delusion is strong in this thread...
Technically a KDF aligned Rom character is the optimal way to play the game.
Besides cheap leech playing KDF-Rom offers no advantages...but does offer some downsides...besides I wasn't talking about a KDF-Rom...you said KDF was superior than Fed in every way but admiralty...you know a big reason why Feds are better at Admiralty? Because Feds have a wide array of Science ships...why is that? Because Feds actually have Science options...so umm...that means the Feds beat KDF at Science...
So no...the KDF isn't near superior in every way to Feds.