...the hardcore fans of the Defiant aren't going to pass on it because it's not as strong as the best Escort in game...
Perhaps you're right, time will tell.
Overall, I don't think I'm getting my point across very well, and perhaps that's on me. Again, I don't feel that the Defiant (or any ship) has to be 'the best Escort in the game.' My issue with the Valiant is that it (in my opinion) is way too far behind the Pilot Ships and the Phantom. In your earlier example, the Dreadnaught and the Presidio are highly comparable, in fact in some ways the Dread is better. It's tougher, has a Lance and access to Weapon Systems Efficiency. It has things that set it apart from, and in some ways, above the Presidio. The Valiant has nothing.. not one thing, and that's my issue. It's not that it isn't 'the best,' it's that it's so far behind.
If you get the ship, I sincerely hope you like it. Personally though, I feel like you should be getting more for your dollar then just the Defiant skins. Each person has their own perception of value and it's not my intent to say yours is right or wrong, mine is simply different. I don't think it's fair that you're basically getting less because you choose to fly a ship you like.
I mean, seriously? You suggested that an Lt. slot is better than a Lt. Com slot? What are you smoking?
Nothing. I am just not ignorant of the challenges of stuff like shared cooldowns.
Having the ability to slot a Lt. power in Engineering or Science can beat out the ability to slot another Lt.Cmdr Tactical power, simply because you already have covered all the Cmdr Tactical.
It's not an automatism. It depends on the specifics of your build. If your only choice is between 2 Lt.s of a class and 1 Ensign and a Lt.Cmdr of your class, the Lt.Cmdr is always better. That's true, of course. But that is not the choice I am talking about.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Since Release of the t6 hvy escort. Feds seem to Lack a 2nd lt. Com Slot and it makes no sense. There must be some sort of compensation which i dont see. In General no lt Slot beats a lt. Com. And Not getting a lt.com sci or eng. Is a Hughe disadvantage in my opinion. Anyways my hvy escort t6 roxz Bad on dps
How about a 'hero ship' hero clicky? a once every couple of mins big boost to everything - it would give them that special feeling without devaluing other ships.
Make it a Pilot hybrid and I would have zero issues with such a boff change.
we do have some command seating on escorts/destroyers afterall, time for a pilot cruiser.
Edit: Just realised I read that wrong, besides they would make the hybrid seat a ltcmdr, the lt only hybrid seats went out with the DR launch ships.
How about a 'hero ship' hero clicky? a once every couple of mins big boost to everything - it would give them that special feeling without devaluing other ships.
Hehe, that's actually a neat idea.
"War Hero". Something the Sovereign, Defiant and Bird of Prey could have.
"+25 % bonus damage to yourself and allies within 10 km for 15 seconds."
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Btw tempest is an paradigm for how an escort should be. Great bo Layout. 2. Lt com. I repeat 2 2 2 2 Not only one. 4/4 weapons. And a crazy awesome console.
Honestly, I don't think a number of T6 ships are better than T5 ships. All they get is a slightly better BOFF layout, along with Commmand/Intel/Piloting, some extra hull, and Trait. While that's all good, here's my problem:
I think you'll find this is quite deliberate on Cryptics part. They said from the start that T6 would not be heads and above better than T5 like T4-to-T5 is. T6 allows a minor upgrade, desirable traits (sometimes) and more options with the specialty seating. Its debatable if thats worth an extra 500 zen over T5 prices, but then the upgrade token is 750 so adding all but the trait and specialist seating to a T5 is still more expensive, specially when you need the fleet level of said T5 to match the number of consoles.
So far only the specialty ship forerunners stand out as solidly better than T5 ships. (and the Galaxy because of its boff layout change)
it actually mirrors the development of the Corvette. the fourth gen, while a worthy car was stood on it's tail by the C5. and the C6 is really a C5.5. different skin and shortened wheelbase, but essentially not much of an upgrade
If I'm not mistaken, you can't shoot while using pilot maneuvers. That's the trade off.
And even if a hangar is of dubious worth, it adds flavor to a ship at no cost. The Alita doesn't have to equip a console to use it's hangar. It doesn't lose any weapon slots. It's just there for people to enjoy. It's a bonus, pure and simple.
A Lt. Com seat is utterly worth losing an Lt. seat. That's a complete no brainer.
And hardly anyone is suggesting that the Valiant be as good as the Pilot Escorts. Or at least, I'm not. Just that the defining aspect of being a simple gun platform has been usurped by objectively better ships. The Valiant is not faster or tougher than the Phantom or Pilot Escorts. It doesn't have more firepower than the Hestia or Alita. It's just a very plain, unremarkable, mediocre Escort.
Personally, I'm a guy that likes vanilla over any flavor, but the Valiant is far too watered down to be called that. It's be diluted by the existence of similar and simply better ships.
Pilot Maneuvers are simply a means of escape or getting into better combat positioning instantaneously. You can't shoot but considering it makes you immune to most things in this game with barely a handful of seconds of recharge time, not shooting while conducting Pilot Maneuvers is an absolutely insignificant cost. There is absolutely NOTHING in this game that grants several seconds of damage immunity, immunity from a lot of CC, putting a lot of distance in a short amount of time, with the extremely short recharge timer that Pilot Maneuvers have. Nothing. No Specialization Ship Bonus ability has this but Pilot Maneuvers. No Console ability, no set bonus ability, no special ability has this kind of power and availability.
The Single Hangar on ships I have long derided as pointless. They depend on numbers to do their magic and 1 hangar does not bring enough numbers.
As for Valiant and people suggesting that it be as good as the Pilot Escorts, you've missed a lot of reading on these boards. People wanted Battle Cloaks, Pilot Maneuvers. People wanted Cmdr Hybrids and a host of other desires that anyone with a sane mind in this game would know would NOT come on these things, not on T5->T6 converted ships.
T6 Defiant is a good ship. It's true failing is failing to meet the unrealistic expectations people had of this ship leading into its release. People had their heads in the clouds like the T6 Defiant was going to be the next GOD SHIP of this game with all kinds of unreasonable features that it was guaranteed to disappoint. Guys like me were warning people to reign in their expectations because people were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Sadly, I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see exactly the same if/when news of a T6 Sovereign class appears.
We'll dance that dance when the time comes. There's already 1 point of a T6 Sovereign that I know the many unreasonable players around here will not like. And the wild fantasies out there of what a T6 Sovvy will be will come crashing down to the level of reality checks just as it did with Defiant.
Too many crazy expectations, people not seeing the trends with what was done with prior T5->T6 conversions.
I already know that statistically, the T6 Sovereign will not match up anywhere near close to the T6 Eclipse nor the very nasty T6 Avenger (seriously, that's a good contender there also). But the T6 Sovvy will be, as most other conversions, simply a means of fans of that ship to finally take their favorite ship and play at a full T6 level.
If I'm not mistaken, you can't shoot while using pilot maneuvers. That's the trade off.
And even if a hangar is of dubious worth, it adds flavor to a ship at no cost. The Alita doesn't have to equip a console to use it's hangar. It doesn't lose any weapon slots. It's just there for people to enjoy. It's a bonus, pure and simple.
A Lt. Com seat is utterly worth losing an Lt. seat. That's a complete no brainer.
And hardly anyone is suggesting that the Valiant be as good as the Pilot Escorts. Or at least, I'm not. Just that the defining aspect of being a simple gun platform has been usurped by objectively better ships. The Valiant is not faster or tougher than the Phantom or Pilot Escorts. It doesn't have more firepower than the Hestia or Alita. It's just a very plain, unremarkable, mediocre Escort.
Personally, I'm a guy that likes vanilla over any flavor, but the Valiant is far too watered down to be called that. It's be diluted by the existence of similar and simply better ships.
Pilot Maneuvers are simply a means of escape or getting into better combat positioning instantaneously. You can't shoot but considering it makes you immune to most things in this game with barely a handful of seconds of recharge time, not shooting while conducting Pilot Maneuvers is an absolutely insignificant cost. There is absolutely NOTHING in this game that grants several seconds of damage immunity, immunity from a lot of CC, putting a lot of distance in a short amount of time, with the extremely short recharge timer that Pilot Maneuvers have. Nothing. No Specialization Ship Bonus ability has this but Pilot Maneuvers. No Console ability, no set bonus ability, no special ability has this kind of power and availability.
The Single Hangar on ships I have long derided as pointless. They depend on numbers to do their magic and 1 hangar does not bring enough numbers.
As for Valiant and people suggesting that it be as good as the Pilot Escorts, you've missed a lot of reading on these boards. People wanted Battle Cloaks, Pilot Maneuvers. People wanted Cmdr Hybrids and a host of other desires that anyone with a sane mind in this game would know would NOT come on these things, not on T5->T6 converted ships.
T6 Defiant is a good ship. It's true failing is failing to meet the unrealistic expectations people had of this ship leading into its release. People had their heads in the clouds like the T6 Defiant was going to be the next GOD SHIP of this game with all kinds of unreasonable features that it was guaranteed to disappoint. Guys like me were warning people to reign in their expectations because people were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Sadly, I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see exactly the same if/when news of a T6 Sovereign class appears.
We'll dance that dance when the time comes. There's already 1 point of a T6 Sovereign that I know the many unreasonable players around here will not like.
That she'll have science slots? Not get 5 tactical consoles? Not get a 5/3 weapon loadout? That the console set will include the bussard collector thingy?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
im dealing more dmg in the defiant than in any other escort .you guys complain because you arent willing to adapt the playstile cryptic had in mind.
slot 5x zeropoint chambers and watch enemies explode in 300k crit onehits of the warhead. i dont see why this is "inferior" at any point
you arent able to adapt the playstile to the ship. you want the ship (every ship) to fit you "one and only" playstile. thats the problem.
build the defiant/kor correctly and see how superior they are in their specific role.
the defiant didnt get a 5/2 layout because it has a warhead that can deal up to 300k dmg front. isnt that enough?
Nah...they complain because it isn't the strongest Escort out there...so that's why you see words like *sucks* and *weak* and *pointless*...because it isn't THEE best people say it sucks because they're so entitled and think anything they want should be the best and that every little thing should extend the power creep by leaps and bounds.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I'm loving the Valiant, she hits hard and I've merely up armoured her so she can take a few hard hits and still carry on.
She's not a weak ship if set up right
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I think they should just stop making ships for the feds and start making them for Romulans and Klingons (*Coughs* Science ships), if people are going to complain how naff the new ships are.
Given how awesome of outrageous expectations people placed on a T6 Defiant. suprised no one's campaigned for the ship to have come with a special ship trait ,"Attack Pattern Sisko". But seeing it was bundled with the kor and t'varo. that wasn't gonna happen. Missed Oppertunity.
From an escort standpoint an extended scatter volley makes sense for a trait. It should have however come with a beam fire at will trait of some kind. Cannons and torpedoes have a lot of DPS with one or possibly a few targets at a time. Fire at will can clear a map with a few rounds and less effort. lets support "red beam cruiser online" but make sales in the process right? :P Yes I have the T6 defiant and love it. Just spreading sarcasm on the trait since it was mentioned.
If I'm not mistaken, you can't shoot while using pilot maneuvers. That's the trade off.
And even if a hangar is of dubious worth, it adds flavor to a ship at no cost. The Alita doesn't have to equip a console to use it's hangar. It doesn't lose any weapon slots. It's just there for people to enjoy. It's a bonus, pure and simple.
A Lt. Com seat is utterly worth losing an Lt. seat. That's a complete no brainer.
And hardly anyone is suggesting that the Valiant be as good as the Pilot Escorts. Or at least, I'm not. Just that the defining aspect of being a simple gun platform has been usurped by objectively better ships. The Valiant is not faster or tougher than the Phantom or Pilot Escorts. It doesn't have more firepower than the Hestia or Alita. It's just a very plain, unremarkable, mediocre Escort.
Personally, I'm a guy that likes vanilla over any flavor, but the Valiant is far too watered down to be called that. It's be diluted by the existence of similar and simply better ships.
Pilot Maneuvers are simply a means of escape or getting into better combat positioning instantaneously. You can't shoot but considering it makes you immune to most things in this game with barely a handful of seconds of recharge time, not shooting while conducting Pilot Maneuvers is an absolutely insignificant cost. There is absolutely NOTHING in this game that grants several seconds of damage immunity, immunity from a lot of CC, putting a lot of distance in a short amount of time, with the extremely short recharge timer that Pilot Maneuvers have. Nothing. No Specialization Ship Bonus ability has this but Pilot Maneuvers. No Console ability, no set bonus ability, no special ability has this kind of power and availability.
The Single Hangar on ships I have long derided as pointless. They depend on numbers to do their magic and 1 hangar does not bring enough numbers.
As for Valiant and people suggesting that it be as good as the Pilot Escorts, you've missed a lot of reading on these boards. People wanted Battle Cloaks, Pilot Maneuvers. People wanted Cmdr Hybrids and a host of other desires that anyone with a sane mind in this game would know would NOT come on these things, not on T5->T6 converted ships.
T6 Defiant is a good ship. It's true failing is failing to meet the unrealistic expectations people had of this ship leading into its release. People had their heads in the clouds like the T6 Defiant was going to be the next GOD SHIP of this game with all kinds of unreasonable features that it was guaranteed to disappoint. Guys like me were warning people to reign in their expectations because people were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Sadly, I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see exactly the same if/when news of a T6 Sovereign class appears.
We'll dance that dance when the time comes. There's already 1 point of a T6 Sovereign that I know the many unreasonable players around here will not like.
That she'll have science slots? Not get 5 tactical consoles? Not get a 5/3 weapon loadout? That the console set will include the bussard collector thingy?
Sorry for replying so late
The T6 Sovereign you can guarantee right now will not have a 5/3 layout. It will retain it's original 4/4. That alone will be a huge negative for a number of people out there. It will retain other general values like Turn Rate, Inertia, etc. Just like people were surprised the T6 Galaxy-X, Defiant, Akira, Galaxy were not 5 forward weapon ships. People were surprised before, they will be surprised again. And again. And again. Lemmings I guess really do keep rolling off the cliff no matter what. The Console layout will be the same as it was at Fleet T5U. 5/2/4. Shouldn't be a surprise but knowing this playerbase, it will be.
I could see a Set being made to include the C-Store Metreon Gas Cannisters with the new T6 console. Maybe expand it to 3 pieces with that T6 console: New Console + Wide Angle Quantum Torp + Metreon Gas Thingie
What they do with the BOFF layout though is going to be important. Currently the T5 version:
TAC LtCmdr
TAC Ens
ENG Cmdr
ENG Lt
UNIV Lt - Not fond of this. It's a "False Choice."
What station gets the +1 for the T6 version is more important, IMO.
1. The likely candidate is the ENG LT -> ENG LtCmdr/Hybrid. That's my gut feeling, especially how optionally ENG heavy the T6 Cruisers have generally been. The secondary ENG station is very likely to get the Hybrid upgrade. Again, going by how Cryptic has treated Non-Full Specialization Cruisers. The Hybrid station on T6 Avenger/Mogh is an excellent example for it going on the secondary ENG station. It actually gives good flexibility for a build while not touching the TAC station. Personally, I think this is the optimal route for flexibility on offense or ENG capability.
2. TAC Ens -> TAC Lt will be a decent move and give TAC BOFF ability freedom. If my guess of the secondary ENG station holds, it will be a decent compromise but not as nice as the first estimate.
3. UNIV Lt -> UNIV LtCmdr. I'm not fond of the Universal station on the Sovereign. It's a False Choice, the same as it was on the KDF's Fleet Vor'Cha. Put anything but SCI there and you leave yourself open to certain attacks. On one hand, it will make the T6 Sovvy be a multi role Cruiser like the Guardian. But the SCI Console support is abysmal: 2.
Again, those are my estimates, laced with my personal preferences. But it's more "Down to Earth" than some of the wishes out there.
If I'm not mistaken, you can't shoot while using pilot maneuvers. That's the trade off.
And even if a hangar is of dubious worth, it adds flavor to a ship at no cost. The Alita doesn't have to equip a console to use it's hangar. It doesn't lose any weapon slots. It's just there for people to enjoy. It's a bonus, pure and simple.
A Lt. Com seat is utterly worth losing an Lt. seat. That's a complete no brainer.
And hardly anyone is suggesting that the Valiant be as good as the Pilot Escorts. Or at least, I'm not. Just that the defining aspect of being a simple gun platform has been usurped by objectively better ships. The Valiant is not faster or tougher than the Phantom or Pilot Escorts. It doesn't have more firepower than the Hestia or Alita. It's just a very plain, unremarkable, mediocre Escort.
Personally, I'm a guy that likes vanilla over any flavor, but the Valiant is far too watered down to be called that. It's be diluted by the existence of similar and simply better ships.
Pilot Maneuvers are simply a means of escape or getting into better combat positioning instantaneously. You can't shoot but considering it makes you immune to most things in this game with barely a handful of seconds of recharge time, not shooting while conducting Pilot Maneuvers is an absolutely insignificant cost. There is absolutely NOTHING in this game that grants several seconds of damage immunity, immunity from a lot of CC, putting a lot of distance in a short amount of time, with the extremely short recharge timer that Pilot Maneuvers have. Nothing. No Specialization Ship Bonus ability has this but Pilot Maneuvers. No Console ability, no set bonus ability, no special ability has this kind of power and availability.
The Single Hangar on ships I have long derided as pointless. They depend on numbers to do their magic and 1 hangar does not bring enough numbers.
As for Valiant and people suggesting that it be as good as the Pilot Escorts, you've missed a lot of reading on these boards. People wanted Battle Cloaks, Pilot Maneuvers. People wanted Cmdr Hybrids and a host of other desires that anyone with a sane mind in this game would know would NOT come on these things, not on T5->T6 converted ships.
T6 Defiant is a good ship. It's true failing is failing to meet the unrealistic expectations people had of this ship leading into its release. People had their heads in the clouds like the T6 Defiant was going to be the next GOD SHIP of this game with all kinds of unreasonable features that it was guaranteed to disappoint. Guys like me were warning people to reign in their expectations because people were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Sadly, I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see exactly the same if/when news of a T6 Sovereign class appears.
We'll dance that dance when the time comes. There's already 1 point of a T6 Sovereign that I know the many unreasonable players around here will not like.
That she'll have science slots? Not get 5 tactical consoles? Not get a 5/3 weapon loadout? That the console set will include the bussard collector thingy?
Sorry for replying so late
The T6 Sovereign you can guarantee right now will not have a 5/3 layout. It will retain it's original 4/4. That alone will be a huge negative for a number of people out there. It will retain other general values like Turn Rate, Inertia, etc. Just like people were surprised the T6 Galaxy-X, Defiant, Akira, Galaxy were not 5 forward weapon ships. People were surprised before, they will be surprised again. And again. And again. Lemmings I guess really do keep rolling off the cliff no matter what. The Console layout will be the same as it was at Fleet T5U. 5/2/4. Shouldn't be a surprise but knowing this playerbase, it will be.
I could see a Set being made to include the C-Store Metreon Gas Cannisters with the new T6 console. Maybe expand it to 3 pieces with that T6 console: New Console + Wide Angle Quantum Torp + Metreon Gas Thingie
What they do with the BOFF layout though is going to be important. Currently the T5 version:
TAC LtCmdr
TAC Ens
ENG Cmdr
ENG Lt
UNIV Lt - Not fond of this. It's a "False Choice."
What station gets the +1 for the T6 version is more important, IMO.
1. The likely candidate is the ENG LT -> ENG LtCmdr/Hybrid. That's my gut feeling, especially how optionally ENG heavy the T6 Cruisers have generally been. The secondary ENG station is very likely to get the Hybrid upgrade. Again, going by how Cryptic has treated Non-Full Specialization Cruisers. The Hybrid station on T6 Avenger/Mogh is an excellent example for it going on the secondary ENG station. It actually gives good flexibility for a build while not touching the TAC station. Personally, I think this is the optimal route for flexibility on offense or ENG capability.
2. TAC Ens -> TAC Lt will be a decent move and give TAC BOFF ability freedom. If my guess of the secondary ENG station holds, it will be a decent compromise but not as nice as the first estimate.
3. UNIV Lt -> UNIV LtCmdr. I'm not fond of the Universal station on the Sovereign. It's a False Choice, the same as it was on the KDF's Fleet Vor'Cha. Put anything but SCI there and you leave yourself open to certain attacks. On one hand, it will make the T6 Sovvy be a multi role Cruiser like the Guardian. But the SCI Console support is abysmal: 2.
Again, those are my estimates, laced with my personal preferences. But it's more "Down to Earth" than some of the wishes out there.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no! I want my assault cruiser to have a 5/3 weapons layout, a 5/3/5 console setup, intel AND pilot shipboard powers, I want a Commander Eng, Lt.Com Eng, Lt.Com Tac, a Lt.Com Sci and a Lt.Com Universal, and by universal, I mean any specialization too! I want a shipboard battlecloak, none of this console garbage, I want 80k hull, a 2.0 shield mod and a +10 all subsystems.
That's right, it's just me being silly that's all.
Some well-grounded suppositions, @Warmaker001b. I agree there'll be a set with the Metreon Gas Canisters. I don't think the wide-angle q-torp will be made part of the set, though. I also think TAC Ens -> Lt Ens is the most likely upgrade, though the devs might surprise us with making a bumped second Tac seat universal, and the current universal to Science. The secondary Eng seat will almost certainly be the hybrid spec seat though.
As for what that hybrid spec will be, I'm almost certain it'll be Command or Intel. Pilot is a long shot; the best hope for Fed cruiser captains to get that was probably the Resolute. A more left-field possibility is that Season 11.5 might bring a new Specialization, and while there'll be a 9 ship bundle as the primary specialization ships, the T6 Sovereign could also be fielded with it.
Huh... I didn't realize that the Refit had a Lt.Cmdr Tac slot!
I still remember the Sovereign as the Ensign Tactical choice of the 3 ensign cruiser choices. I guess that's what I get for missing 2 years of the game.
But that makes a Lt.Cmdr/Engineering + Lt.Cmdr/Tactical evne more likely. Unless they just buff the ensign. Which would probably be suboptimal.
Personally I would prefer a Lt.Cmdr/Universal then - because that is Lt.Cmdr Science, and science is awesome. (And people that hate Science can still do something else, evne if they clearly make a poor choice and have no clue how to play the game. )
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I also think TAC Ens -> Lt Ens is the most likely upgrade, though the devs might surprise us with making a bumped second Tac seat universal, and the current universal to Science. The secondary Eng seat will almost certainly be the hybrid spec seat though.
That surprise will never happen. One of the core rules of T6 upgrades to date is that the T6 version is always a superset of the T5 version, nothing that could be done before will be lost.
Yeah, I know. I mostly mused that possibility as a "What if Cryptic decided to address the 'False choice' criticism of the Regent's Universal slot?"
Since a specialist seat usually goes in an LtC slot, as a measly Lt-only specialist is pretty junk and amounts to nothing, it would thus end up crammed into the LtC Tac...a terrible placement.
A Lt hybrid seat does have precedence with the Guardian, although that ship has two LtCs by way of contrast.
Pilot is a long shot; the best hope for Fed cruiser captains to get that was probably the Resolute. A more left-field possibility is that Season 11.5 might bring a new Specialization, and while there'll be a 9 ship bundle as the primary specialization ships, the T6 Sovereign could also be fielded with it.
Well, Command and Intel are overcrowded, especially Command. If the T6 Sov winds up another Command ship, it will have basically little to nothing to distinguish itself from all the OTHER existing Command Cruisers, all of which share very similar or identical layouts. As an Intel Cruiser, it will offer very little to distinguish itself from the Avenger or the Eclipse. Fitting, I guess, since it was strictly outclassed at T5 by the Avenger also.
No argument from me there. Then again, T6 updates of canon ships have been more about giving their fans a T6 option, plus perhaps a revamped classic skin, than keeping them current with the meta (ref: this thread).
The only changes from the T5u version of the Sovereign to a T6 version will include:
A larger hull hitpoints pool
Either the Lt ENG or Lt UNIV upgraded to a Lt.CMD boff seat (I hope for the latter)
A Hybrid seat (most likely either Intel or Command)
A new Console
A new look and (hopefully) a redesign of the Sovereign skin
A new ship mastery trait
I would not expect any other changes from it's current configuration. The Fleet version would also get the same console upgrade as the Fleet T5u gets. All of the hero cruiser ships have been receiving a second Lt.CMD boff seat which is why I don't think it's likely the Ens seat will upgrade to a Lt. seat. That has been the case for the escort ships, however.
A Lt hybrid seat does have precedence with the Guardian, although that ship has two LtCs by way of contrast.
Cryptic stopped doing lt hybrid only seats after the pathfinder. No T6 has had only a lt hybrid seat since then, though a couple of lockbox ships have lt cmdr and lt slots.
But depending on when they release it the ship could very well have a new specialization that has yet to be released...I mean we did get the Command specialization with last year's anniversary event...never know we could see a new one soon...last thing we need is another Cruiser with Command...we have two Cruisers with Intel...and Sovereign won't see Pilot I imagine.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
But depending on when they release it the ship could very well have a new specialization that has yet to be released...I mean we did get the Command specialization with last year's anniversary event...never know we could see a new one soon...last thing we need is another Cruiser with Command...we have two Cruisers with Intel...and Sovereign won't see Pilot I imagine.
Even if a new Specialization is made and if a T6 Sovereign would get access to it, as a converted T5->T6 ship, it would not get the Cmdr Hybrid station.
Everything about Pilot Specialization is amusing, IMO. Everyone assumes it's strictly "An Escort Specialization" but it's far from the truth. There are certain perks, BOFF abilities with requirements that really ties the hands of typical Escort play. There are certain perks, BOFF abilities clearly meant for Escorts weaving in and out of combat.
"Form Up" for instance is something I've been experimenting with. You teleport alongside a friendly target and if you stay within several km, it buffs both you and the target's damage for a pretty long time. I disliked trying this with my Pilot Ships since it usually meant sacrificing my speed and mobility, nuking my Bonus Defense. Other Escorts typically move too fast for me to stay with them to use "Form Up." However... if a Cruiser or other slower ship had the higher ranking slots to try "Form Up?" That's much more easy considering how the average Cruiser behaves these days. Take my Cruiser, target, say, a friendly Scimitar that already has a long line of buffs, use Form Up III (Cmdr rank ability), and blaze away together. The Cruiser's playstyle and typical handling easily keeps up with the Scimitar while not compromising its own defense.
Comments
Perhaps you're right, time will tell.
Overall, I don't think I'm getting my point across very well, and perhaps that's on me. Again, I don't feel that the Defiant (or any ship) has to be 'the best Escort in the game.' My issue with the Valiant is that it (in my opinion) is way too far behind the Pilot Ships and the Phantom. In your earlier example, the Dreadnaught and the Presidio are highly comparable, in fact in some ways the Dread is better. It's tougher, has a Lance and access to Weapon Systems Efficiency. It has things that set it apart from, and in some ways, above the Presidio. The Valiant has nothing.. not one thing, and that's my issue. It's not that it isn't 'the best,' it's that it's so far behind.
If you get the ship, I sincerely hope you like it. Personally though, I feel like you should be getting more for your dollar then just the Defiant skins. Each person has their own perception of value and it's not my intent to say yours is right or wrong, mine is simply different. I don't think it's fair that you're basically getting less because you choose to fly a ship you like.
Having the ability to slot a Lt. power in Engineering or Science can beat out the ability to slot another Lt.Cmdr Tactical power, simply because you already have covered all the Cmdr Tactical.
It's not an automatism. It depends on the specifics of your build. If your only choice is between 2 Lt.s of a class and 1 Ensign and a Lt.Cmdr of your class, the Lt.Cmdr is always better. That's true, of course. But that is not the choice I am talking about.
About the only way they could TRIBBLE that up is if they make the gas canisters part of a set.
The Ensign Tactical is changed to Lt. Universal.
The Lt.Tactical becomes Lt.Tactical|Command.
Mustrum "Muhahahaha" Ridcully
Make it a Pilot hybrid and I would have zero issues with such a boff change.
we do have some command seating on escorts/destroyers afterall, time for a pilot cruiser.
Edit: Just realised I read that wrong, besides they would make the hybrid seat a ltcmdr, the lt only hybrid seats went out with the DR launch ships.
Hehe, that's actually a neat idea.
"War Hero". Something the Sovereign, Defiant and Bird of Prey could have.
"+25 % bonus damage to yourself and allies within 10 km for 15 seconds."
it actually mirrors the development of the Corvette. the fourth gen, while a worthy car was stood on it's tail by the C5. and the C6 is really a C5.5. different skin and shortened wheelbase, but essentially not much of an upgrade
slot 5x zeropoint chambers and watch enemies explode in 300k crit onehits of the warhead. i dont see why this is "inferior" at any point
you arent able to adapt the playstile to the ship. you want the ship (every ship) to fit you "one and only" playstile. thats the problem.
build the defiant/kor correctly and see how superior they are in their specific role.
the defiant didnt get a 5/2 layout because it has a warhead that can deal up to 300k dmg front. isnt that enough?
We'll dance that dance when the time comes. There's already 1 point of a T6 Sovereign that I know the many unreasonable players around here will not like. And the wild fantasies out there of what a T6 Sovvy will be will come crashing down to the level of reality checks just as it did with Defiant.
Too many crazy expectations, people not seeing the trends with what was done with prior T5->T6 conversions.
I already know that statistically, the T6 Sovereign will not match up anywhere near close to the T6 Eclipse nor the very nasty T6 Avenger (seriously, that's a good contender there also). But the T6 Sovvy will be, as most other conversions, simply a means of fans of that ship to finally take their favorite ship and play at a full T6 level.
Nah...they complain because it isn't the strongest Escort out there...so that's why you see words like *sucks* and *weak* and *pointless*...because it isn't THEE best people say it sucks because they're so entitled and think anything they want should be the best and that every little thing should extend the power creep by leaps and bounds.
She's not a weak ship if set up right
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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Sorry for replying so late
The T6 Sovereign you can guarantee right now will not have a 5/3 layout. It will retain it's original 4/4. That alone will be a huge negative for a number of people out there. It will retain other general values like Turn Rate, Inertia, etc. Just like people were surprised the T6 Galaxy-X, Defiant, Akira, Galaxy were not 5 forward weapon ships. People were surprised before, they will be surprised again. And again. And again. Lemmings I guess really do keep rolling off the cliff no matter what. The Console layout will be the same as it was at Fleet T5U. 5/2/4. Shouldn't be a surprise but knowing this playerbase, it will be.
I could see a Set being made to include the C-Store Metreon Gas Cannisters with the new T6 console. Maybe expand it to 3 pieces with that T6 console: New Console + Wide Angle Quantum Torp + Metreon Gas Thingie
What they do with the BOFF layout though is going to be important. Currently the T5 version:
TAC LtCmdr
TAC Ens
ENG Cmdr
ENG Lt
UNIV Lt - Not fond of this. It's a "False Choice."
What station gets the +1 for the T6 version is more important, IMO.
1. The likely candidate is the ENG LT -> ENG LtCmdr/Hybrid. That's my gut feeling, especially how optionally ENG heavy the T6 Cruisers have generally been. The secondary ENG station is very likely to get the Hybrid upgrade. Again, going by how Cryptic has treated Non-Full Specialization Cruisers. The Hybrid station on T6 Avenger/Mogh is an excellent example for it going on the secondary ENG station. It actually gives good flexibility for a build while not touching the TAC station. Personally, I think this is the optimal route for flexibility on offense or ENG capability.
2. TAC Ens -> TAC Lt will be a decent move and give TAC BOFF ability freedom. If my guess of the secondary ENG station holds, it will be a decent compromise but not as nice as the first estimate.
3. UNIV Lt -> UNIV LtCmdr. I'm not fond of the Universal station on the Sovereign. It's a False Choice, the same as it was on the KDF's Fleet Vor'Cha. Put anything but SCI there and you leave yourself open to certain attacks. On one hand, it will make the T6 Sovvy be a multi role Cruiser like the Guardian. But the SCI Console support is abysmal: 2.
Again, those are my estimates, laced with my personal preferences. But it's more "Down to Earth" than some of the wishes out there.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no! I want my assault cruiser to have a 5/3 weapons layout, a 5/3/5 console setup, intel AND pilot shipboard powers, I want a Commander Eng, Lt.Com Eng, Lt.Com Tac, a Lt.Com Sci and a Lt.Com Universal, and by universal, I mean any specialization too! I want a shipboard battlecloak, none of this console garbage, I want 80k hull, a 2.0 shield mod and a +10 all subsystems.
That's right, it's just me being silly that's all.
As for what that hybrid spec will be, I'm almost certain it'll be Command or Intel. Pilot is a long shot; the best hope for Fed cruiser captains to get that was probably the Resolute. A more left-field possibility is that Season 11.5 might bring a new Specialization, and while there'll be a 9 ship bundle as the primary specialization ships, the T6 Sovereign could also be fielded with it.
I still remember the Sovereign as the Ensign Tactical choice of the 3 ensign cruiser choices. I guess that's what I get for missing 2 years of the game.
But that makes a Lt.Cmdr/Engineering + Lt.Cmdr/Tactical evne more likely. Unless they just buff the ensign. Which would probably be suboptimal.
Personally I would prefer a Lt.Cmdr/Universal then - because that is Lt.Cmdr Science, and science is awesome. (And people that hate Science can still do something else, evne if they clearly make a poor choice and have no clue how to play the game.
Yeah, I know. I mostly mused that possibility as a "What if Cryptic decided to address the 'False choice' criticism of the Regent's Universal slot?"
A Lt hybrid seat does have precedence with the Guardian, although that ship has two LtCs by way of contrast.
No argument from me there. Then again, T6 updates of canon ships have been more about giving their fans a T6 option, plus perhaps a revamped classic skin, than keeping them current with the meta (ref: this thread).
I would not expect any other changes from it's current configuration. The Fleet version would also get the same console upgrade as the Fleet T5u gets. All of the hero cruiser ships have been receiving a second Lt.CMD boff seat which is why I don't think it's likely the Ens seat will upgrade to a Lt. seat. That has been the case for the escort ships, however.
Cryptic stopped doing lt hybrid only seats after the pathfinder. No T6 has had only a lt hybrid seat since then, though a couple of lockbox ships have lt cmdr and lt slots.
But depending on when they release it the ship could very well have a new specialization that has yet to be released...I mean we did get the Command specialization with last year's anniversary event...never know we could see a new one soon...last thing we need is another Cruiser with Command...we have two Cruisers with Intel...and Sovereign won't see Pilot I imagine.
Even if a new Specialization is made and if a T6 Sovereign would get access to it, as a converted T5->T6 ship, it would not get the Cmdr Hybrid station.
Everything about Pilot Specialization is amusing, IMO. Everyone assumes it's strictly "An Escort Specialization" but it's far from the truth. There are certain perks, BOFF abilities with requirements that really ties the hands of typical Escort play. There are certain perks, BOFF abilities clearly meant for Escorts weaving in and out of combat.
"Form Up" for instance is something I've been experimenting with. You teleport alongside a friendly target and if you stay within several km, it buffs both you and the target's damage for a pretty long time. I disliked trying this with my Pilot Ships since it usually meant sacrificing my speed and mobility, nuking my Bonus Defense. Other Escorts typically move too fast for me to stay with them to use "Form Up." However... if a Cruiser or other slower ship had the higher ranking slots to try "Form Up?" That's much more easy considering how the average Cruiser behaves these days. Take my Cruiser, target, say, a friendly Scimitar that already has a long line of buffs, use Form Up III (Cmdr rank ability), and blaze away together. The Cruiser's playstyle and typical handling easily keeps up with the Scimitar while not compromising its own defense.