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Star Empire and Tal'shiar

captz1ppcaptz1pp Member Posts: 931 Arc User
edited November 2015 in Romulan Discussion
Now that the Iconians have withdrawn, i imagine the organizations mentioned in the title, free from their interference, will be back in cooperation again, maybe with the former operative Janek in charge of the Tal'shiar, while someone else, i vote former centurion Bochra atleast in the competition for Praetor.
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Im pretty sure that even the Imperial Remnants arent stupid enough to get back in bed with the Tal Shiar.
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • generalguncraftgeneralguncraft Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    yeah they would probably demand its full dis assembly and dis armament
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I vote for Grand Admiral Thrawn to lead the Imperial Remnant. He gets things done, and will take care of the Rebels.

    Mustrum "Don't cross the streams" Ridcully
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    I vote for Grand Admiral Thrawn to lead the Imperial Remnant. He gets things done, and will take care of the Rebels.

    Mustrum "Don't cross the streams" Ridcully

    I dunno he seems a bit too depressed, I mean when was the last time he wasn't a bit blue?
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    The New Romulan Republic holds near exclusivety on the Romulan polity. What remains of the Star Empire, apart from the Tal'Shiar, is slowly reorganising in the hinterlands of the Beta and Delta Quadrants. Under whose guidance, and to what ends, remains to be seen. B)
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

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  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I'd think Bochra would be pretty solidly in with the Republic. His only on-screen appearance ended with him getting an appreciation for Humans.

    Either way, I'd like to see how the Star Empire / Tal'Shiar stories do play out. They were given some brief screentime at the opening of the Iconian War, and we were shown that 1) there was no love shared between the Imperial Remnant and Tal'Shiar, and 2) that both factions are barely holding on at this point, although the Tal'Shiar seems to be the better off of the two. So there are a lot of loose ends that are left to tie up now that the war is over.
  • captz1ppcaptz1pp Member Posts: 931 Arc User
    Atleast the game could do something with the two characters, one from show, the other from game, one of them could even be implied to be a grandparent of ENT's "Future Guy".
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    Janek would be a good choice for the Tal Shiar remnant if Cryptic ever decided to bring them back as something less psychotic. Not sure about the Imperial remnant though-they seem to have separated last we saw of them-and were in active conflict. I can't imagine Janek in charge of the empire unless the Tal Shiar reasserts control over it in the near future.

    I'd love to see Tomalak come out of retirement to show all the young 'uns how to really run an empire...pretty sure he died in the Hobus incident though. Perhaps Donatra if they ever decide to bring her back?
  • gawainviiigawainviii Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    Ruul has already been shown as being the presumptive replacement for head of the Tal Shiar... but since we don't know anything about Ruul we can't say whether he'll follow in his predecessor's footsteps, or return to the Empress's good graces. Since, in "Secret Shuttle Codes", we learn that he favored using the Hirogen (which was previously a tactic used by Sela) over assassinating D'Tan, we could extrapolate that his thinking is more in line with the Imperial government's.

    Re: Head of RSE military: Path to 2409 has already identified Velal as being appointed to that position... and nothing we've seen has contradicted that so far. It could be that Velal is still in charge of what's left of the Star Navy.

    As to the Gov't itself... Although Sela "promoted" herself from Praetor to Empress, there is nothing one way or the other to say whether the Senate was dissolved or not. If it wasn't, then she would have appointed a new Praetor, who would presumably govern in her absence. Who that would be, is wide open. (I'm partial to my own RSE-Rom PC, Gaius Yulius Kesar... he wears the "Praetor" accolade title. :p )
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    actually it says in the path to 2409 iirc that sela dismissed and/or executed any senators that didn't like her and installed puppets in their place. Its later inferred with her disappearance that those puppets got ambitious and resumed bickering and tearing the remnants apart in power grabs.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • gawainviiigawainviii Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    actually it says in the path to 2409 iirc that sela dismissed and/or executed any senators that didn't like her and installed puppets in their place. Its later inferred with her disappearance that those puppets got ambitious and resumed bickering and tearing the remnants apart in power grabs.

    With the foundry down-time, I've been replaying all the Rom-centric missions, on both Rom and Fed side... for research. ;)
    newstosiggy.png
  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    I seriously doubt she had someone with the ability to rule in her stead. Totalitarian governments with a strong head of state rarely have someone in the structure with the ability to rule in the leader's abscence. The same pattern is repeated over and over, from Napoleon (who was famous for manipulatin his marshals to keep them divided and at each others throats, prevent one from gaining enough power to be a rival) all the way to Hitler and Stalin (both also famous for eliminating rivals and letting their subordinates say engaged in squabbling and petty power games), and further, to men like Francisco Franco, Saddam Hussein, and the Kim family in North Korea. Sela's government would have been a classic rule by one person, with her cronies and underlings kept divided and under her thumb to prevent possible rivals.

    Also, Ruul WAS the presumptive heir apparent to Hamkeev. Recall that the player kills him in the Romulan Rep Mountain Pass mission. With him gone, we know nothing, except that the RSE has typically devolved into faction fighting severe enough that the Imperial Navy was only capable of providing ONE ship to escort Sela. And that moreover in the Hobus system, mere tens of light years from Romulus.
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  • sharksinspacesharksinspace Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    I vote for Grand Admiral Thrawn to lead the Imperial Remnant. He gets things done, and will take care of the Rebels.

    Mustrum "Don't cross the streams" Ridcully

    I don't know, I think that Isard seems like the more Romulan choice if we were to go that direction.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I vote for Grand Admiral Thrawn to lead the Imperial Remnant. He gets things done, and will take care of the Rebels.

    Mustrum "Don't cross the streams" Ridcully

    I don't know, I think that Isard seems like the more Romulan choice if we were to go that direction.

    isard is an incompetent bungler who managed to allow an entire super star destroyer to be captured by a single squadron of new republic pilots - that it was the NR's most elite squadron is inconsequential, it was still ONE squadron

    actually, she would be a perfect fit for the RSE - they're certainly used to gross incompetence by now​​
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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    How about we Feds and Klingons just invade you and absorb what's left... so we can have peace. I mean, it was a bastardised child of the Romulan Empire that caused all this suffering.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    How about we Feds and Klingons just invade you and absorb what's left... so we can have peace. I mean, it was a bastardised child of the Romulan Empire that caused all this suffering.
    she was also human and on an Enterprise.

    Guess that settles it the Klingons will have to wipe out both the fed and roms

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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    your reasoning fails me. While she has Federation blood, she was raised by the Empire!
  • captz1ppcaptz1pp Member Posts: 931 Arc User
    How about we Feds and Klingons just invade you and absorb what's left... so we can have peace. I mean, it was a bastardised child of the Romulan Empire that caused all this suffering.
    she was also human and on an Enterprise.

    Guess that settles it the Klingons will have to wipe out both the fed and roms

    A feature episode about the RSE being taken by the former or the latter someday?
  • bltrrnbltrrn Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    captz1pp wrote: »
    How about we Feds and Klingons just invade you and absorb what's left... so we can have peace. I mean, it was a bastardised child of the Romulan Empire that caused all this suffering.
    she was also human and on an Enterprise.

    Guess that settles it the Klingons will have to wipe out both the fed and roms

    A feature episode about the RSE being taken by the former or the latter someday?

    This. Exactly this.
    R E M A I N

    Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.

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  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    As long as that karma Houdini named Sela gets put down (in a non-heroic manner), then I'm fine. Although, honestly, I think the Republic would be the only faction that could (re)claim RSE space without breaking the Alliance. Neither the Klingons not the Federation want to see the other claim all that territory.
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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    tolmarius wrote: »
    As long as that karma Houdini named Sela gets put down (in a non-heroic manner), then I'm fine. Although, honestly, I think the Republic would be the only faction that could (re)claim RSE space without breaking the Alliance. Neither the Klingons not the Federation want to see the other claim all that territory.

    we'll claim it for ourselves and divide it among ourselves. The Klingons can get that part and we'll get this part. Evenly.
  • gawainviiigawainviii Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    Seems to me that the secret-powers-that-be (Section 31, House of Duras J'Mpok, etc.) would want to maintain the status quo... If the RSE/Tal Shiar are eliminated completely, that would leave a power vacuum. It wouldn't be enough to just split Romulan space in half between the two remaining powers because the Romulans left would become resentful of their new overlords... quietly remembering a time when they were strong, and feared. Regardless of government, a Romulan is still a Romulan.. tigers, stripes, and all that.

    Better to have a controllable situation with an allied puppet government in a state of perpetual Civil War with the Star Empire remnant. This way, disillusioned Republic Romulans can point the finger at the evil Star Empire, and Imperial Romulans can keep trying to take back their power from those ungrateful Republic traitors. Balance is maintained, Romulans never become a real, independent power, and both UFP and KDF have a puppet to do the things they don't want to get caught doing. Plausible deniability and status quo: the strong maintain their position by keeping the weak divided, squabbling amongst themselves--but still look good, publicly, by pretending to support the more politically palatable option.
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    D'Twerp would have a REALLY hard time staying in power or claiming his joke Republic is anything but a lapdog if he allowed his "allies" to conquer that many Romulan planets. Regardless of how they acquire the worlds those are Romulans(and Remans) populating them, and the Republic professes to stand for ALL Romulans and Remans. Many also remember that the Klinks were quick to start conquering after Hobus, and would not allow a second wave of this.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    D'Twerp would have a REALLY hard time staying in power or claiming his joke Republic is anything but a lapdog if he allowed his "allies" to conquer that many Romulan planets. Regardless of how they acquire the worlds those are Romulans(and Remans) populating them, and the Republic professes to stand for ALL Romulans and Remans. Many also remember that the Klinks were quick to start conquering after Hobus, and would not allow a second wave of this.

    D'Tan is no threat
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    D'Twerp would have a REALLY hard time staying in power or claiming his joke Republic is anything but a lapdog if he allowed his "allies" to conquer that many Romulan planets. Regardless of how they acquire the worlds those are Romulans(and Remans) populating them, and the Republic professes to stand for ALL Romulans and Remans. Many also remember that the Klinks were quick to start conquering after Hobus, and would not allow a second wave of this.

    D'Tan is no threat

    Really? How many warbirds are over Qo'Nos and Earth at any given point in time? Sure they wouldn't last too long, but it only takes a few seconds to launch a torpedo barrage at the planet below. Or ESD/Shipyard. Esp with battle cloaks
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • tolmariustolmarius Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    Really? How many warbirds are over Qo'Nos and Earth at any given point in time? Sure they wouldn't last too long, but it only takes a few seconds to launch a torpedo barrage at the planet below. Or ESD/Shipyard. Esp with battle cloaks

    This. Just...this.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Getting back with the OP's post:

    No, the RSE & Tal Shiar will not be getting back together. In the mission where Hakeev gets offed, that was when Sela and thereby the RSE, has had enough of the Tal Shiar's idiocy and basically cut them away. Maybe the Tal Shiar could have realigned with the RSE if they dropped Hakeev's agenda but their new leadership has chosen to keep true to Hakeev's wishes.

    To top it off, the Iconians that the Tal Shiar hoped would faceroll the galaxy failed and ended the war with a peace treaty, choosing to isolate themselves at Iconia. This leaves the Tal Shiar in a hilarious position: They did everything in their power to alienate themselves from the average Romulan, regardless if they call the RSE or Romulan Republic home, all for their bid to put themselves in the good graces of the Iconians when they conquer the galaxy. But it didn't pan out that way. The Romulan Republic and the RSE despise the Tal Shiar so the morons are now homeless bums that can't even get the scraps from their Iconian masters that they sacrificed everything for.

    It's actually quite funny to have seen. The Tal Shiar, once the region's greatest, most feared intelligence service with a strong military arm, is now reduced to unwanted, homeless bums.
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  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    It's a matter of time before the RSE and Tal'Shiar are totally gone. They're currently reduced to a small area of space in the northern Beta, and the Republic is closing in on them.

    If anyone is to claim that space, it'll be the Republic. It's way too far away from Klingon space for them to want it, and the Federation wouldn't be interested in angering the Republic that fiercely by 'claiming' areas of space.

    I expect at some point, we'll see Starfleet and the KDF supporting the Republic Fleet, as they put an end to the Romulan Civil War.
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    chipg7 wrote: »
    It's a matter of time before the RSE and Tal'Shiar are totally gone. They're currently reduced to a small area of space in the northern Beta, and the Republic is closing in on them.

    If anyone is to claim that space, it'll be the Republic. It's way too far away from Klingon space for them to want it, and the Federation wouldn't be interested in angering the Republic that fiercely by 'claiming' areas of space.

    I expect at some point, we'll see Starfleet and the KDF supporting the Republic Fleet, as they put an end to the Romulan Civil War.

    Final nail in the coffin of the big bad Star Empire? A unified and much more honorable Romulan nation to be the winner that takes all? I'll support that final push.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    The Romulan Republic isn't going to be declaring war on the RSE anytime soon.

    1. Sela did bring assistance to the Alliance in the form of the Dominion in the latter part of the Iconian War.

    2. The Romulan Republic is in an Alliance, binding itself with the Federation and Klingon Empire. Do you guys REALLY think the others want a war with the RSE?

    3. If you were wondering if the Alliance really wanted to put away Sela, they didn't, if you guys paid any attention to the last FE of the Iconian War, with Sela standing there in the celebrations of the war's end at San Francisco.

    4. If you guys didn't notice, the military forces of the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Republic **All Got Trashed** during the Iconian War. Qo'nos, New Romulus, Earth, the cores of the members of the Alliance, got hit hard. New Romulus and Earth got the worst of it and ESD got rekt **again**.

    5. Immediately on the heels of the closure of the Iconian War, the Alliance was dealing with a new Mirror Invasion.

    The Alliance does not have the diplomatic will, desire, nor military capability to start a war with the RSE. The Federation most of all would be completely against it, and let's face it, Starfleet is the largest military power of the Alliance. The Federation is not one to start wars for most parts, even in the very warlike era of STO. Unless the RSE takes hostile action against the Alliance, the Federation will not be willing to partake in any aggressive action against them. Especially after the catastrophe of the Iconian War. And again, since Starfleet is the larger military power, the Federation has a lot of say in what the Alliance does.
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