I wasn't aware the makeup artists for both Treks were together on FaceOff this year. I've watched that show occasionally in the past.
It's not that I think Westmore was *bad* at his job, necessarily (the design work on the Cardassians was excellent), but I noticed that the Abramsverse often went to more trouble with its aliens than just a rubber forehead, and I want to see more of that. A mix of the old and new is what I'd be looking for.
I think that is mostly a budget issue, not a talent issue. There is only so much you can do on a TV show budget.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Ron Moore actually had no problem writing for TNG, and worked really well with DS9. (His positive Trek experiences are one reason why, when the Final Four had to set up a secret meeting place in BSG, they met in storage compartment 1701D.)
I didn't mean to say that Ron Moore was unhappy or disgruntled writing for Star Trek. Sorry if it comes across that way.
I have seen and read many interviews with him where he talks about the difficulty in writing character conflict in the utopia of the Federation. I can recall one in particular where he mentions Rick Berman being a "tyrant" for rejecting story ideas that didn't "uphold Roddenberry's vision". Ira Steven Behr made similar comments in a few interviews I've seen with him as well.
But one shouldn't interpret too much in such things. IT doesn't have to mean he wants it grimdark.
Just look at TOS - the banter between Spock and McCoy. Or that episode with the Galileo 7. That was all interpersonal conflict that was allowed in TOS, but it seems mostly missing from TNG. Any interpersonal conflict is usually outside the crew, when you get something like Drumheads.
BSG was particular dark because the premise is incredibly dark, and they actually went with it. We're talking a holocaust perpetrated against the entire human race, the last survivors on their route to a mythical home! That's not really a room for space casinos or human empires that you happen to fly through. (Oops, we're not the last after all? Should we tell them about the genocidal robots that are following us. I mean, they are kinda d*cks...?) And even BSG had its moments of hope.
A new Trek show doesn't have to be that dark, but it should have room for conflicts in the crew, because those are ultimately the ones that will stay interesting. (Unless you press a reset button all the time.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You have to remember that rubber foreheads were a huge step up compared to TOS and even early seasons of TNG where "these are aliens because we say they are aliens" was the norm. Even Voyager sometimes made very little effort. The primary characteristic of the people Memory Alpha calls "Makull's species" (because sometimes even a name took too much work) seems to be moderately tall hair.
One thing Into Darkness did very right makeup-wise were those Klingon helmets. They were a perfect way to sidestep the forehead issue, took even less work than a real makeup would have, and actually made sense from the Klingon point-of-view (assuming the augment virus was still a thing).
But yes, it is always about the money. Elaborate alien designs mean that you have to limit the number of aliens you see in an episode. If you think your show might occasionally need, for instance, a crowd of Bajorans, the Bajoran makeup has to be incredibly simple. DS9 was never going to spend a lot of time on the Tosk homeworld, so he gets a full head & cowl. The Jem'Hadar, another fantastic Westmore creation, stand out as one species that took a lot of work and saw a lot of action (to great effect).
I think one way elaborate aliens really hamper a TV project over a movie is that they make the universe smaller. One reason the Daleks keep popping back up on Doctor Who is that the costumes are already built and just sitting there, so the writers come up with excuses to use them. The more work a show puts into its props, the more use they'll see, whether it is the Merchantman model, or your racks of Klingon uniforms. The cheaper the aliens, the more variety, and the richer the universe gets, even if it is visually boring.
I dont see why they dont just get trekkie writers. Some of the best storys I have seen since TOS & TNG have been from Fan Fiction. Even the writer for family guy said he would love too do a script sometime! Lucky guy already had several cameos.
This is what scares me, the production team and JJ admitted they were Star Wars fans and watched 'abit' of Star Trek as kids, the result in my opinion was two films that didnt have any of the qualitys that make Star Trek a unique and loved show.
I am all for refresh, but get the right crew. You wouldn't get a plumber to look at your car.
My issue with this is these guys tend to tell the same stories. If you want to make a brand new Star Trek series...have a new writing team and new effects team. This shouldn't come off as TNG 2.0.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's being helmed by one of the producers of the movies - Abrams is busy with SW, and Kurtzman and Orci apparently have had a bit of a falling-out.
What I'd like to see is more of what IMO helped make TOS great - hiring actual professional SF writers to contribute scripts. Think about some of the most memorable stories from the original; most lists include episodes like "Amok Time" (Theodore Sturgeon), "City On the Edge of Forever" (Harlan Ellison), and "The Trouble With Tribbles" (David Gerrold). Imagine some new Trek with scripts by, say, William Gibson or Allan Steele or David Brin or Ann Leckie or Charles Strauss or...
That sounds fine to me. I'd like to add something I've been saying for a while now, especially after the JJ Trek movies.
Set the new Star Trek show long after the last series of events. Long after VOY's ending, long after the end of the Dominion War, long after the events of Nemesis.
A future with new ship designs, maybe some old ones from the last era still serving. New uniforms, new gadgets, new technology to show off. More importantly, more freedom in showing off the future setting without being shackled so much as if doing a prequel or current setting with the last shows.
For kind of the same reasons that JJ Abrams / Disney cast into the fires Star Wars' Expanded Universe for the sake of the new movies. To prevent the EU from binding, shackling the new movies.
I agree that those helmets were pretty cool looking in Into Darkness, though I believe we did see one Klingon without them and he had forehead ridges. That said some books and comics speculated that the QuchHa did not constitute the entire population so that some with forehead ridges remained even after the virus.
And yeah, the rubber foreheads were a step up from TNG but I would still like to see some more advancement if at all possible.
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It's being helmed by one of the producers of the movies - Abrams is busy with SW, and Kurtzman and Orci apparently have had a bit of a falling-out.
What I'd like to see is more of what IMO helped make TOS great - hiring actual professional SF writers to contribute scripts. Think about some of the most memorable stories from the original; most lists include episodes like "Amok Time" (Theodore Sturgeon), "City On the Edge of Forever" (Harlan Ellison), and "The Trouble With Tribbles" (David Gerrold). Imagine some new Trek with scripts by, say, William Gibson or Allan Steele or David Brin or Ann Leckie or Charles Strauss or...
That sounds fine to me. I'd like to add something I've been saying for a while now, especially after the JJ Trek movies.
Set the new Star Trek show long after the last series of events. Long after VOY's ending, long after the end of the Dominion War, long after the events of Nemesis.
A future with new ship designs, maybe some old ones from the last era still serving. New uniforms, new gadgets, new technology to show off. More importantly, more freedom in showing off the future setting without being shackled so much as if doing a prequel or current setting with the last shows.
For kind of the same reasons that JJ Abrams / Disney cast into the fires Star Wars' Expanded Universe for the sake of the new movies. To prevent the EU from binding, shackling the new movies.
I agree with this
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
EDIT: Oops, meant that for the other thread. Here's my contribution to this thread:
I'm open to what ever they'll do. Would want something with humour, something further in the future, with TNG/DS9-like stories, and up-to-date dialogue/fx.
Because petitions always work [/sarcasm]
I think we should wait until they give us more information before we start petitions
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
This kinda got lost in the other thread, but personally, something I would like to see, is if the new Trek series was more directly linked to STO, in the same way that the series and game of Defiance were linked. ...
No thank you. That's killing the series before it even shoots it's first scene.
May I ask why you think that? The premise being (as mentioned in the rest of my post) to heighten engagement with the viewers, and give them more a sense of community, through things like competitions (ie get your ship on screen, or your captain name-dropped) or maybe a weekly/fortnightly/quarterly webinar where a member of the cast, and a member of the production crew comes online to chat directly with fans for half an hour or so... As I mentioned, the dynamic between fans/viewers and actors/producers is very different now to what it was say fifteen years ago, and I think that could be ('exploited' is the wrong word) maximised/utilised to build a stronger community, increase the conversion from 'occasional viewer', to 'legitimate fan'...
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
Episode One - A Single MomentEpisode Two - InfancyEpisode Three - Unto the Breach Episode Four - Head Of A NeedleEpisode Five: The Duality of MenEpisode Six - Redemption Earned Episode Seven - Shattered UniverseEpisode Eight - The Gepetto ConditionEpisode Nine - One Room, Two Officers Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest StarEpisode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't HurtEpisode Twelve - A Protracted Officer Episode Thirteen - SomewhenEpisode Fourteen - The Boy Who LivedEpisode Fifthteen - Empathy
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
God, I hope not.
I have absolutely no interest in "Trek 90210".
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the Gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the original characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
They probably can't use the exact same iterations of the characters, but they could certainly use younger versions of them.
(which I hope, doesn't happen)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
No I don't think that's correct.
Paramount is actually essentially 'renting' the Trek Universe to make motion pictures for theatrical release.
CBS retains the licensing rights to use the characters and the shows in any way they see fit on television and in merchandising, they just can't make a Movie with them.
That's one of things that annoyed JJ, he wanted larger control over the movie merchandising.
Paramount was ok with that but CBS said no.
Paramount probably has exclusive rights to the current movie iterations of the characters, but CBS still has the final say.
All ya have to do is look at the back of the toys that came out with Trek '09, they all had Paramount AND CBS as the TM owners.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
No I don't think that's correct.
Paramount is actually essentially 'renting' the Trek Universe to make motion pictures for theatrical release.
CBS retains the licensing rights to use the characters and the shows in any way they see fit on television and in merchandising, they just can't make a Movie with them.
That's one of things that annoyed JJ, he wanted larger control over the movie merchandising and CBS said no.
I'll have to look up the article
You are right they are renting the characters...which is what I meant to type.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
No I don't think that's correct.
Paramount is actually essentially 'renting' the Trek Universe to make motion pictures for theatrical release.
CBS retains the licensing rights to use the characters and the shows in any way they see fit on television and in merchandising, they just can't make a Movie with them.
That's one of things that annoyed JJ, he wanted larger control over the movie merchandising.
Paramount was ok with that but CBS said no.
Paramount probably has exclusive rights to the current movie iterations of the characters, but CBS still has the final say.
All ya have to do is look at the back of the toys that came out with Trek '09, they all had Paramount AND CBS as the TM owners.
That's... not exactly the case. It's a complex situation that started with Desilu Studios being purchased by Viacom, and wending its way through multiple divestitures and merges until finally the TV rights for Trek rest with CBS, while the movie rights for Trek are wholly owned by Paramount. They play nicely together sometimes - other times not so much. And the trademark status of the characters is - well, it's bizarre, is what it is. This is one of the results of everyone in Hollywood employing more lawyers than they do writers.
That being said, everything I said earlier about prequel series in general goes triple for this "Academy Daze" concept. You might - might - plausibly claim that in the Primeverse Kirk and McCoy were classmates. Uhura and Sulu might even have been underclassmen. But Spock was first officer of the Enterprise under Pike for eleven years, so there's no plausible way he was involved more than peripherally with the Academy during Kirk's tenure there. Chekov was an ensign when Kirk was a captain - the poor boy was probably still in elementary school at Farside Station when Kirk graduated! In order to have all the major characters in the Academy at the same time, all continuity has to be thrown out the airlock. It's the ENT problem cubed, and cubed again.
There are strong rumors that the upcoming CBS Star Trek series will be based on the canned script “Star Trek: The Academy Years” which was written by Harvey Bennett and David Loughery for Star Trek TOS’s 25th Anniversary back in 1991! There is a great probability that production houses are actually considering Academy Years as the next expedition of the Star Trek franchise.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
No I don't think that's correct.
Paramount is actually essentially 'renting' the Trek Universe to make motion pictures for theatrical release.
CBS retains the licensing rights to use the characters and the shows in any way they see fit on television and in merchandising, they just can't make a Movie with them.
That's one of things that annoyed JJ, he wanted larger control over the movie merchandising.
Paramount was ok with that but CBS said no.
Paramount probably has exclusive rights to the current movie iterations of the characters, but CBS still has the final say.
All ya have to do is look at the back of the toys that came out with Trek '09, they all had Paramount AND CBS as the TM owners.
That's... not exactly the case. It's a complex situation that started with Desilu Studios being purchased by Viacom, and wending its way through multiple divestitures and merges until finally the TV rights for Trek rest with CBS, while the movie rights for Trek are wholly owned by Paramount. They play nicely together sometimes - other times not so much. And the trademark status of the characters is - well, it's bizarre, is what it is. This is one of the results of everyone in Hollywood employing more lawyers than they do writers.
That being said, everything I said earlier about prequel series in general goes triple for this "Academy Daze" concept. You might - might - plausibly claim that in the Primeverse Kirk and McCoy were classmates. Uhura and Sulu might even have been underclassmen. But Spock was first officer of the Enterprise under Pike for eleven years, so there's no plausible way he was involved more than peripherally with the Academy during Kirk's tenure there. Chekov was an ensign when Kirk was a captain - the poor boy was probably still in elementary school at Farside Station when Kirk graduated! In order to have all the major characters in the Academy at the same time, all continuity has to be thrown out the airlock. It's the ENT problem cubed, and cubed again.
Agreed...and I also doubt that CBS will redo what we saw in Star Trek
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I don't like that idea. All but 2 shows have been about exploration (with VOY and DS9 only being half exploration). Unless they come up with some really interesting DS9 style arcs, sitting in one place is not a Trek, especially if the show isn't even in space.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I have to say I hope that's not the idea. Even rehashing Voyager would be more likely to get me to watch.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I don't like that idea. All but 2 shows have been about exploration (with VOY and DS9 only being half exploration). Unless they come up with some really interesting DS9 style arcs, sitting in one place is not a Trek, especially if the show isn't even in space.
We may feel differant on the Abramsverse but we agree on this. The repeating factor I have got from fans on these forums is that people want the series to go back to the 'golden age of exploration' and that it is set after Voy or between series.
I have to admit too, that I have come around to the idea of a series set after Voyager/Nemesis. Altough I would like to see some kind of link in the Pilot to the Nemesis Movie as opposed to a century later.
Perhaps the series could be followed by a group of TV-Movies not unlike Stargate:Ark of Truth, in which they tell various storys or missing links throughout the Star Trek Universe?
Romulans leaving Vulcan/Qo'Nos invasion/Borg Origin thousands of years ago (Not V'Ger) and etc?
STAR TREK CONTINUES
Episode One - A Single MomentEpisode Two - InfancyEpisode Three - Unto the Breach Episode Four - Head Of A NeedleEpisode Five: The Duality of MenEpisode Six - Redemption Earned Episode Seven - Shattered UniverseEpisode Eight - The Gepetto ConditionEpisode Nine - One Room, Two Officers Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest StarEpisode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't HurtEpisode Twelve - A Protracted Officer Episode Thirteen - SomewhenEpisode Fourteen - The Boy Who LivedEpisode Fifthteen - Empathy
I don't like that idea. All but 2 shows have been about exploration (with VOY and DS9 only being half exploration). Unless they come up with some really interesting DS9 style arcs, sitting in one place is not a Trek, especially if the show isn't even in space.
And only one of the movies.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
May I ask why you think that? The premise being (as mentioned in the rest of my post) to heighten engagement with the viewers, and give them more a sense of community, through things like competitions (ie get your ship on screen, or your captain name-dropped) or maybe a weekly/fortnightly/quarterly webinar where a member of the cast, and a member of the production crew comes online to chat directly with fans for half an hour or so... As I mentioned, the dynamic between fans/viewers and actors/producers is very different now to what it was say fifteen years ago, and I think that could be ('exploited' is the wrong word) maximised/utilised to build a stronger community, increase the conversion from 'occasional viewer', to 'legitimate fan'...
Because the storyline in STO is dreadful IMO. This is just my own 2 quatloos here, but I'd rather see this new series be original and stand on its own legs without having to heavily rely on what has come before.
Besides, CBS doesn't need STO to promote it's new Trek show.
agreed
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Back in the day of three networks, there was a show called 'NBC Mystery Movie' which was an anthology series. Each week a different series would air, and if you watched it regularly you'd see three or four different shows a season sharing the same air time.
Assume a Star Trek version in this format, with four different titles running concurrently. In the first week you might see an exploration Trek, the next a station-based one, the next might be a 'war show', and the next week you might have a throwback to pre-TOS show. Each show would have it's own crew, missions, and starship/station.
You might even have a show which is made up of shorts, so that vignette type stories would have a place. It might be interesting, for example, to see an episode where the Horta volunteer to have members of their society transplanted from Janus IV to another mining colony. There's a lot of potential for a half-hour episode in that idea, but not enough to base a series on it. You could have literally dozens of shorts from 15 minutes to 1 hour which are one-offs, never to be re-visited unless viewers demand it. Imagine the potential for attracting and showcasing TV stars in such a show!
Some ideas for recurring series set in an anthology format:
Star Fleet Academy: Comedy. Students learn to live, love, and cope with aliens on a college campus.
Star Trek Neutral Zone: Military Drama. It's not enough that we deal with Klingons on a daily basis, but the damned neutral zone species are the worst!
Star Trek 2170: Exploration Drama. The crew of the USS Victory, (NCC 100) support the growing Federation, led by Federation President Archer. (Bakula might get a cameo in the christening scene.)
Star Trek Anthology: Variety. Sci Fi writers are invited to create one-off Trek episodes from a variety of ages and in a variety of styles.
I dont think there is to many options in terms of following the current timeline as in the TNG era. I think there is maybe 3 options we can go down now, the past( which we have done ) far in to the future and they can mak a clean go of the show and we see how the quaderant has progressed OR they move away from the prime universe and create yet another alternate verse away from ht jjveres and away from the prime.
I dont think there is to many options in terms of following the current timeline as in the TNG era. I think there is maybe 3 options we can go down now, the past( which we have done ) far in to the future and they can mak a clean go of the show and we see how the quaderant has progressed OR they move away from the prime universe and create yet another alternate verse away from ht jjveres and away from the prime.
There is the 'Lost Era' between TOS and TNG. The Time between ENT and TOS. Alpha Quadrent between DS9 and Nemesis, after Nemesis. Not to mention there is no reason you couldnt set something in the same period as another, dont forget we had three series set in the same era.
I think the best bet for us as fans is to wait until they come out with the synopsis and then get our moaning-geek on. I know I am ready. They will never appease us. Mwah HA HA
STAR TREK CONTINUES
Episode One - A Single MomentEpisode Two - InfancyEpisode Three - Unto the Breach Episode Four - Head Of A NeedleEpisode Five: The Duality of MenEpisode Six - Redemption Earned Episode Seven - Shattered UniverseEpisode Eight - The Gepetto ConditionEpisode Nine - One Room, Two Officers Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest StarEpisode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't HurtEpisode Twelve - A Protracted Officer Episode Thirteen - SomewhenEpisode Fourteen - The Boy Who LivedEpisode Fifthteen - Empathy
I dont think there is to many options in terms of following the current timeline as in the TNG era. I think there is maybe 3 options we can go down now, the past( which we have done ) far in to the future and they can mak a clean go of the show and we see how the quaderant has progressed OR they move away from the prime universe and create yet another alternate verse away from ht jjveres and away from the prime.
There is the 'Lost Era' between TOS and TNG. The Time between ENT and TOS. Alpha Quadrent between DS9 and Nemesis, after Nemesis. Not to mention there is no reason you couldnt set something in the same period as another, dont forget we had three series set in the same era.
I think the best bet for us as fans is to wait until they come out with the synopsis and then get our moaning-geek on. I know I am ready. They will never appease us. Mwah HA HA
Think thats a good shout. im Hoping for something farmiliar to be fair , im a bore that dosnt like to much change haha. so anything tng ds9 voy era ill be happy. Just a massive fingers crossed that its not a jjverse.
Comments
Just look at TOS - the banter between Spock and McCoy. Or that episode with the Galileo 7. That was all interpersonal conflict that was allowed in TOS, but it seems mostly missing from TNG. Any interpersonal conflict is usually outside the crew, when you get something like Drumheads.
BSG was particular dark because the premise is incredibly dark, and they actually went with it. We're talking a holocaust perpetrated against the entire human race, the last survivors on their route to a mythical home! That's not really a room for space casinos or human empires that you happen to fly through. (Oops, we're not the last after all? Should we tell them about the genocidal robots that are following us. I mean, they are kinda d*cks...?) And even BSG had its moments of hope.
A new Trek show doesn't have to be that dark, but it should have room for conflicts in the crew, because those are ultimately the ones that will stay interesting. (Unless you press a reset button all the time.)
One thing Into Darkness did very right makeup-wise were those Klingon helmets. They were a perfect way to sidestep the forehead issue, took even less work than a real makeup would have, and actually made sense from the Klingon point-of-view (assuming the augment virus was still a thing).
But yes, it is always about the money. Elaborate alien designs mean that you have to limit the number of aliens you see in an episode. If you think your show might occasionally need, for instance, a crowd of Bajorans, the Bajoran makeup has to be incredibly simple. DS9 was never going to spend a lot of time on the Tosk homeworld, so he gets a full head & cowl. The Jem'Hadar, another fantastic Westmore creation, stand out as one species that took a lot of work and saw a lot of action (to great effect).
I think one way elaborate aliens really hamper a TV project over a movie is that they make the universe smaller. One reason the Daleks keep popping back up on Doctor Who is that the costumes are already built and just sitting there, so the writers come up with excuses to use them. The more work a show puts into its props, the more use they'll see, whether it is the Merchantman model, or your racks of Klingon uniforms. The cheaper the aliens, the more variety, and the richer the universe gets, even if it is visually boring.
My issue with this is these guys tend to tell the same stories. If you want to make a brand new Star Trek series...have a new writing team and new effects team. This shouldn't come off as TNG 2.0.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That sounds fine to me. I'd like to add something I've been saying for a while now, especially after the JJ Trek movies.
Set the new Star Trek show long after the last series of events. Long after VOY's ending, long after the end of the Dominion War, long after the events of Nemesis.
A future with new ship designs, maybe some old ones from the last era still serving. New uniforms, new gadgets, new technology to show off. More importantly, more freedom in showing off the future setting without being shackled so much as if doing a prequel or current setting with the last shows.
For kind of the same reasons that JJ Abrams / Disney cast into the fires Star Wars' Expanded Universe for the sake of the new movies. To prevent the EU from binding, shackling the new movies.
And yeah, the rubber foreheads were a step up from TNG but I would still like to see some more advancement if at all possible.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I agree with this
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
https://change.org/p/alex-kurtzman-cbs-heather-kadin-secret-hideout-set-star-trek-2017-new-cbs-tv-series-in-the-prime-reality
EDIT: Oops, meant that for the other thread. Here's my contribution to this thread:
I'm open to what ever they'll do. Would want something with humour, something further in the future, with TNG/DS9-like stories, and up-to-date dialogue/fx.
I think we should wait until they give us more information before we start petitions
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Academy Years is a prequel that explains the adventure of Kirk, Spock, and other leading members in their younger days. Back in 90’s it was a concept for a movie, but according to the Hollywood grapevine it looks like the production team wants to use the same concept for a fascinating Television series in 2017. We’ve read the script of Academy years, and boy-o-boy – it’s extremely well written and this is going to be an instant hit on Television. The story of Academy Years sound like a science fiction Top Gun, with Kirk as the Tom Cruise, but with spellbinding twists and turns because of the other captivating characters, and enthralling circumstances.
It seems like the first season of Academy years will revolve around, how Frivolous Kirk and extremely logical Spock join the academy with Scotty and Bones. There are two other main characters in the script name Kalibar, and Cassandra Hightower. Kalibar is a negative character that might compete with Kirk and team, on the other hand, Cassandra is going to be the love interest of Captain Kirk. We’ve taken a stab at doing a fan cast, check them out and let us know, if they would be you pick if you had the chance as the cast director.
worldofoddballs.com/rumors-cbs-star-trek-is-based-on-star-trek-academy-years-fan-cast-1/
THOUGHTS?
Episode Four - Head Of A Needle Episode Five: The Duality of Men Episode Six - Redemption Earned
Episode Seven - Shattered Universe Episode Eight - The Gepetto Condition Episode Nine - One Room, Two Officers
Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest Star Episode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't Hurt Episode Twelve - A Protracted Officer
Episode Thirteen - Somewhen Episode Fourteen - The Boy Who Lived Episode Fifthteen - Empathy
God, I hope not.
I have absolutely no interest in "Trek 90210".
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It won't feature Kirk and crew. One of the articles announcing the new show mentioned they can't use the same characters as th new movies.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That seems, inconsistent... since Paramount is paying CBS to use Kirk and the Gang in the movies.
CBS owns the rights to all the original characters, therefore they can use them in any way they want.
They probably can't use the exact same iterations of the characters, but they could certainly use younger versions of them.
(which I hope, doesn't happen)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Paramount isn't actually paying to use the characters...it's more like they bought them. At which point CBS can't really use them. It's like the Marvel situation. Marvel as an entity may own X-Men and Fox has purchased the rights which means Marvel Studios can't make X-Men movies.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
No I don't think that's correct.
Paramount is actually essentially 'renting' the Trek Universe to make motion pictures for theatrical release.
CBS retains the licensing rights to use the characters and the shows in any way they see fit on television and in merchandising, they just can't make a Movie with them.
That's one of things that annoyed JJ, he wanted larger control over the movie merchandising.
Paramount was ok with that but CBS said no.
Paramount probably has exclusive rights to the current movie iterations of the characters, but CBS still has the final say.
All ya have to do is look at the back of the toys that came out with Trek '09, they all had Paramount AND CBS as the TM owners.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'll have to look up the article
You are right they are renting the characters...which is what I meant to type.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That being said, everything I said earlier about prequel series in general goes triple for this "Academy Daze" concept. You might - might - plausibly claim that in the Primeverse Kirk and McCoy were classmates. Uhura and Sulu might even have been underclassmen. But Spock was first officer of the Enterprise under Pike for eleven years, so there's no plausible way he was involved more than peripherally with the Academy during Kirk's tenure there. Chekov was an ensign when Kirk was a captain - the poor boy was probably still in elementary school at Farside Station when Kirk graduated! In order to have all the major characters in the Academy at the same time, all continuity has to be thrown out the airlock. It's the ENT problem cubed, and cubed again.
Agreed...and I also doubt that CBS will redo what we saw in Star Trek
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
We may feel differant on the Abramsverse but we agree on this. The repeating factor I have got from fans on these forums is that people want the series to go back to the 'golden age of exploration' and that it is set after Voy or between series.
I have to admit too, that I have come around to the idea of a series set after Voyager/Nemesis. Altough I would like to see some kind of link in the Pilot to the Nemesis Movie as opposed to a century later.
Perhaps the series could be followed by a group of TV-Movies not unlike Stargate:Ark of Truth, in which they tell various storys or missing links throughout the Star Trek Universe?
Romulans leaving Vulcan/Qo'Nos invasion/Borg Origin thousands of years ago (Not V'Ger) and etc?
Episode Four - Head Of A Needle Episode Five: The Duality of Men Episode Six - Redemption Earned
Episode Seven - Shattered Universe Episode Eight - The Gepetto Condition Episode Nine - One Room, Two Officers
Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest Star Episode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't Hurt Episode Twelve - A Protracted Officer
Episode Thirteen - Somewhen Episode Fourteen - The Boy Who Lived Episode Fifthteen - Empathy
And only one of the movies.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
agreed
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Assume a Star Trek version in this format, with four different titles running concurrently. In the first week you might see an exploration Trek, the next a station-based one, the next might be a 'war show', and the next week you might have a throwback to pre-TOS show. Each show would have it's own crew, missions, and starship/station.
You might even have a show which is made up of shorts, so that vignette type stories would have a place. It might be interesting, for example, to see an episode where the Horta volunteer to have members of their society transplanted from Janus IV to another mining colony. There's a lot of potential for a half-hour episode in that idea, but not enough to base a series on it. You could have literally dozens of shorts from 15 minutes to 1 hour which are one-offs, never to be re-visited unless viewers demand it. Imagine the potential for attracting and showcasing TV stars in such a show!
Some ideas for recurring series set in an anthology format:
Star Fleet Academy: Comedy. Students learn to live, love, and cope with aliens on a college campus.
Star Trek Neutral Zone: Military Drama. It's not enough that we deal with Klingons on a daily basis, but the damned neutral zone species are the worst!
Star Trek 2170: Exploration Drama. The crew of the USS Victory, (NCC 100) support the growing Federation, led by Federation President Archer. (Bakula might get a cameo in the christening scene.)
Star Trek Anthology: Variety. Sci Fi writers are invited to create one-off Trek episodes from a variety of ages and in a variety of styles.
There is the 'Lost Era' between TOS and TNG. The Time between ENT and TOS. Alpha Quadrent between DS9 and Nemesis, after Nemesis. Not to mention there is no reason you couldnt set something in the same period as another, dont forget we had three series set in the same era.
I think the best bet for us as fans is to wait until they come out with the synopsis and then get our moaning-geek on. I know I am ready.
Episode Four - Head Of A Needle Episode Five: The Duality of Men Episode Six - Redemption Earned
Episode Seven - Shattered Universe Episode Eight - The Gepetto Condition Episode Nine - One Room, Two Officers
Episode Ten - Beyond The Farthest Star Episode Eleven - It's OK, It Won't Hurt Episode Twelve - A Protracted Officer
Episode Thirteen - Somewhen Episode Fourteen - The Boy Who Lived Episode Fifthteen - Empathy
Think thats a good shout. im Hoping for something farmiliar to be fair , im a bore that dosnt like to much change haha. so anything tng ds9 voy era ill be happy. Just a massive fingers crossed that its not a jjverse.