I agree Pets were nerfed into the ground maybe that didn't come across well in my post. As far as Beams vs Cannons go i'm still on the side that Cannons require a different style of play and superior piloting skill, When in firing arc Cannons are just as deadly as Beams. The biggest hindrance to Cannons users is the firing arc. If they had the same firing arc as Beams there would be very little complaint.
The problem for me is that the use of cannons as opposed to beams is so slanted in favor of beams. If cannons are going to have such a limited 45 degree arc, AND major distance dropoff, AND increased energy consumption when using others, there NEEDS to be something, such as even more of a punch to justify using them. I won't ask for the moon for cannons, but I certainly am not asking for a flaming bag of sht either.
I wouldn't buy it till it gets fixed and nerfed. Same thing happened with the temporal mayhem device. So glad did not spend any money since Cryptic will always nerf anything that remotely resembles an exploit...yeah even for something like a boxed ship or Argala XP grinding. They are not great at fixing bugs (i.e. Defera invasion hards) but great at fixing so called exploits when people whine about it.
I agree Pets were nerfed into the ground maybe that didn't come across well in my post. As far as Beams vs Cannons go i'm still on the side that Cannons require a different style of play and superior piloting skill, When in firing arc Cannons are just as deadly as Beams. The biggest hindrance to Cannons users is the firing arc. If they had the same firing arc as Beams there would be very little complaint.
The problem for me is that the use of cannons as opposed to beams is so slanted in favor of beams. If cannons are going to have such a limited 45 degree arc, AND major distance dropoff, AND increased energy consumption when using others, there NEEDS to be something, such as even more of a punch to justify using them. I won't ask for the moon for cannons, but I certainly am not asking for a flaming bag of sht either.
The base damage of cannons is higher than beams. They have more punch than beams.
The problem is that the buffs and the power management options do not treat the weapons equally.
At the beginning, DHCs were more effective than DC because of an energy drain advantage. The DHC damage was upfront so that the energy drain did not affect it as much as dual cannons or beams.
The advantage between DHCs and DCs stayed, but Beams got help from Cruiser Commands, energy drain reductions, plasmonic leech and all kinds of buffs that lessened the impact of energy drain, and since they suffered the most from it, they also gained the most in this. BFAW saw some buffs to make it actually useful, but those buffs may have overshot the goal, or maybe it was really just the energy drain reductions.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Firing arc is important esp with Cannons as all you're dps is focused within that 45' arc. Also you know and i know it is not possible for Cannons to hit those type of numbers, in fact Beams aren't hitting those numbers its the many buffs Beams get that allow those numbers.
1. Beam Barrage
2. Plasma Embassy Consoles
3. Iconian 4 piece damage buff
4. Anchored
5. Fluidic Coccoon
6. Attack Pattern Beta debuff
7. Delta Prime
8. Numerical Superiority
9. Emergency Weapon Cycle
10. Pedal to the Metal
11. Kemocite
12. Research Consoles
13. Doff that increases crit chance for Beams
14. Marion for DEM
15. Emergency power to weapons
A few of these don't work with Cannons so Beams do have a lot of HELP to reach high numbers.
I'm staring at that list... and literally the only thing in there that's Beam-specific is Beam Barrage. And the reason that Cannons got +turn rate is because turn is king to flying with them.
Look at that list...it's exactly as I said...a deck stacked against cannons...the only advantage beams had that was fixed was the embassy console critting with only FaW.
Forgetting beams have very little range drop off, less power drain, and they hit the target almost instantly...while cannons are incredibly and non-canonically sluggish...oh and there is weapon power overcapping which doesn't seem to work for cannons very well unless they finally fixed that?
Beams are by far a million times easier to use by cannons...so no...it isn't just the buffs that are making beams superior...the only negative of beams is that they do less damage...but the dozen buffs it gets over cannons more than makes up for the one negative they have.
Beams vs cannons is like this:
Beams have longer firing cycles, wider arcs, deal less damage, and have less drop-off. Also they get different (on the whole worse) abilities.
The shorter firing cycles decreases the effectiveness of overcapping with cannons, but makes them more spike-heavy. The damage vs arc tradeoff is self-explanatory, or at least it really should be.The dropoff and speed is likely there for both canonical reasons and to make cannons less OP at single-target vaping.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
I get it now. To make sure there's no single target vaping (which I do NOT want), there's single target gimping. I take it there's no room in the middle to correct the problem, without going too far the other direction?
I get it now. To make sure there's no single target vaping (which I do NOT want), there's single target gimping. I take it there's no room in the middle to correct the problem, without going too far the other direction?
There used to be single-target cannon vaping.
Then in came Delta Rising...
One of the main issues with cannons these days is the enemy HP has skyrocketed, and the fact that there is a lot more mobs to fight at once. Of course that favors the more AoE heavy builds, such as FaW beam boats. Which is fine TBH; FaW was broken for SOOO long (and still kind of is due to accuracy overflow still not working properly, but at least it crits now). Add to that the fact that DHCs were #1 for YEARS, and I'm okay with beams taking the spotlight for a while. Not to say that cannons should be obsolete...
My favorite builds pre-DR were a mix of AP DBBs and DHCs up front, with the AP Omni, KCB, and a turret in the back. Worked great. Kind of miss it. I ran that on escorts and the like; gave them decent firing arc and enough diversity in weapons to handle pretty much anything (nothing more satisfying than popping off CRF and FaW at the same time). Big fat cruisers and carriers? I always ran pure beams. Kind of hard not to.
If Cryptic would give cannons a few good weapon-enhancing traits/buffs that are on par with the ones available for beams, we could all call it a day with the "Beams are OP!" argument...because that isn't really the case, after all. Beams are working as they should. Cannons need a couple more enhancement options with the recently buffed-up enemies and number of mobs.
Firing arc is important esp with Cannons as all you're dps is focused within that 45' arc. Also you know and i know it is not possible for Cannons to hit those type of numbers, in fact Beams aren't hitting those numbers its the many buffs Beams get that allow those numbers.
1. Beam Barrage
2. Plasma Embassy Consoles
3. Iconian 4 piece damage buff
4. Anchored
5. Fluidic Coccoon
6. Attack Pattern Beta debuff
7. Delta Prime
8. Numerical Superiority
9. Emergency Weapon Cycle
10. Pedal to the Metal
11. Kemocite
12. Research Consoles
13. Doff that increases crit chance for Beams
14. Marion for DEM
15. Emergency power to weapons
A few of these don't work with Cannons so Beams do have a lot of HELP to reach high numbers.
I'm staring at that list... and literally the only thing in there that's Beam-specific is Beam Barrage. And the reason that Cannons got +turn rate is because turn is king to flying with them.
Look at that list...it's exactly as I said...a deck stacked against cannons...the only advantage beams had that was fixed was the embassy console critting with only FaW.
Forgetting beams have very little range drop off, less power drain, and they hit the target almost instantly...while cannons are incredibly and non-canonically sluggish...oh and there is weapon power overcapping which doesn't seem to work for cannons very well unless they finally fixed that?
Beams are by far a million times easier to use by cannons...so no...it isn't just the buffs that are making beams superior...the only negative of beams is that they do less damage...but the dozen buffs it gets over cannons more than makes up for the one negative they have.
Beams vs cannons is like this:
Beams have longer firing cycles, wider arcs, deal less damage, and have less drop-off. Also they get different (on the whole worse) abilities.
The shorter firing cycles decreases the effectiveness of overcapping with cannons, but makes them more spike-heavy. The damage vs arc tradeoff is self-explanatory, or at least it really should be.The dropoff and speed is likely there for both canonical reasons and to make cannons less OP at single-target vaping.
Yes...beams getting on the whole worse abilities is why they're are so dominating?
Cannons negatives don't justify their damage potential...the only negatives beams have is their lower damage...which is made up for in a lot of ways including a trait which only buffs beam damage, which cannons don't have.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Kemocite itself is not a bad ability. The problems with Kemocite are 2 fold.
1: the ability is still giving the benefit to players long after the power was supposed to have expired.
2: the lag that the visual causes
When this started to give people the benefits of the power without the power itself having to be active, everyone should've known that's now how it was meant to work and it would get fixed. Consider an example of gaining +50 power from a battery consumable that never goes away even after the duration of the battery has expired then complaining about it when it gets fixed. this is what I see a great deal of happening with kemocite. The power is still lending benefits to people long after it's supposed to have expired, which you know is not intended, and people complaining they're not going to get to keep it. per the battery example, if you knew it was only supposed to last a certain amount of time, how can you then get mad when the extra 50 power is eventually taken like it was supposed to have been to start with? All that we know for sure is going to happen, is the ability no longer lends benefits after it expires, as it always was supposed to be.
The other thing being the visual. I can see certain machines lagging a bit when you have a ton of ships on the screen all firing weapons. However one ability on its own should not be causing the severity of lag we're seeing, especially not from one ship. If fixing the lag caused by the visual means the ability needs to be nerfed in the process, then so be it. The basic ability of someone to play the game ALWAYS trumps another persons ability to get a few extra dps points.
It shouldn't honestly have come as a surprise that this bugged ability was going to get fixed. that's just some of my thoughts on this whole deal.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Yes...beams getting on the whole worse abilities is why they're are so dominating?
Cannons negatives don't justify their damage potential...the only negatives beams have is their lower damage...which is made up for in a lot of ways including a trait which only buffs beam damage, which cannons don't have.
The fact that you're looking at Beam Barrage as being the reason beams are dominant in the current meta just goes to show how little you know about what's going on in the game.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Yes...beams getting on the whole worse abilities is why they're are so dominating?
Cannons negatives don't justify their damage potential...the only negatives beams have is their lower damage...which is made up for in a lot of ways including a trait which only buffs beam damage, which cannons don't have.
The fact that you're looking at Beam Barrage as being the reason beams are dominant in the current meta just goes to show how little you know about what's going on in the game.
Umm...read a little harder or "which is made up for in a lot of ways" = single way to you I guess?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Kemocite itself is not a bad ability. The problems with Kemocite are 2 fold.
1: the ability is still giving the benefit to players long after the power was supposed to have expired.
2: the lag that the visual causes
When this started to give people the benefits of the power without the power itself having to be active, everyone should've known that's now how it was meant to work and it would get fixed. Consider an example of gaining +50 power from a battery consumable that never goes away even after the duration of the battery has expired then complaining about it when it gets fixed. this is what I see a great deal of happening with kemocite. The power is still lending benefits to people long after it's supposed to have expired, which you know is not intended, and people complaining they're not going to get to keep it. per the battery example, if you knew it was only supposed to last a certain amount of time, how can you then get mad when the extra 50 power is eventually taken like it was supposed to have been to start with? All that we know for sure is going to happen, is the ability no longer lends benefits after it expires, as it always was supposed to be.
The other thing being the visual. I can see certain machines lagging a bit when you have a ton of ships on the screen all firing weapons. However one ability on its own should not be causing the severity of lag we're seeing, especially not from one ship. If fixing the lag caused by the visual means the ability needs to be nerfed in the process, then so be it. The basic ability of someone to play the game ALWAYS trumps another persons ability to get a few extra dps points.
It shouldn't honestly have come as a surprise that this bugged ability was going to get fixed. that's just some of my thoughts on this whole deal.
Well Cryptic has done this before and it probably wont be the last time...in other words a ability which is clearly OP or broken, they take forever to fix it, prompting more and more people to purchase said power, they finally fix it, and then all the people who copied the people who discovered the power complain that it was nerfed.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Well Cryptic has done this before and it probably wont be the last time...in other words a ability which is clearly OP or broken, they take forever to fix it, prompting more and more people to purchase said power, they finally fix it, and then all the people who copied the people who discovered the power complain that it was nerfed.
THIS
Is exactly why I'm ever so glad that I did not even bother about kemo-sabe when I first saw the (greyed-out) powers on my Tac Boffs' list of skills & noticed that (when hovering my cursor over) little icon that said it's only available via lockbox.
No, I didn't check the exchange to see how expensive it was, let alone if it was even listed there.
I do just fine & dandy without it. With my T5-U fleet Avenger/Rainbow-warrior/Beam/Torpedo ship. Just fine & dandy. I shoot it & it dies a few seconds later. No problemo.
Will I buy it post nerf when the price drops "rock-bottom"? Maybe, maybe not; probably not even then.
All of these "uber" powers are NOT necessary to successfully play this game. IMHO most of them are nothing more than gimmicks & passing fads.
I hope the prices go down enough so that when everyone has one, no one's special, and it becomes a moot point.
And I hope it also retains the pretty starbursts. Just optimized some to counter the crappy network providers who deliberately throttle the internet.
But beyond that, let the Kemo-therapy continue. Everything that isn't an ally is a cancer that must be treated. And high doses of Kemo-laced Neutronics and Gravimetrics deliver the biggest punch.
Well that sucks. I guess I won't be using RRtW. Thanks for testing it out.
Given the rate of power creep I imagine we will see more weapon haste stuff in the future though. I haven't given up hope of getting that three BFAW volleys quiet yet.
There might be a way, involving the Resonant Armaments set from that one mission. The 3pc from it grants stacking weapon haste when activated, up to 40%, for 15 seconds. Garbage uptime, but you could probably squeeze in a third FAW volley with it.
i don't care about kemocite being nerfed/balanced i just want his visual effect to be removed , the game engine cant handle with so many obscene effects. If you want to nerf something ... nerf FAW , a AoE skill that deals more dmg/target than normal hits is simply ... TRIBBLE. And its 90% of the combat up , and 360 deg. I think its destroying the gameplay by making it way to simple. But ppl like to have „good piloting skill” spaming FAW. I alt + F4 , exactly in the same instance as i see on my monitor „ i do high DPS because of my very good piloting skill” ,and i go kill a kitten.
I agree. "Piloting skills" means people have played ISA/ISE so bloody much (literally thousands of times) they simply trained a pattern to be in a certain spot at a certain time mark because the queue literally plays out the same every time. It is a set dance with no deviation whatsoever.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
"Use Temporal Skills to NERF EVERYTHING before it happened!" -Unknown source.
The problem for me is that the use of cannons as opposed to beams is so slanted in favor of beams. If cannons are going to have such a limited 45 degree arc, AND major distance dropoff, AND increased energy consumption when using others, there NEEDS to be something, such as even more of a punch to justify using them. I won't ask for the moon for cannons, but I certainly am not asking for a flaming bag of sht either.
The base damage of cannons is higher than beams. They have more punch than beams.
The problem is that the buffs and the power management options do not treat the weapons equally.
At the beginning, DHCs were more effective than DC because of an energy drain advantage. The DHC damage was upfront so that the energy drain did not affect it as much as dual cannons or beams.
The advantage between DHCs and DCs stayed, but Beams got help from Cruiser Commands, energy drain reductions, plasmonic leech and all kinds of buffs that lessened the impact of energy drain, and since they suffered the most from it, they also gained the most in this. BFAW saw some buffs to make it actually useful, but those buffs may have overshot the goal, or maybe it was really just the energy drain reductions.
I'm staring at that list... and literally the only thing in there that's Beam-specific is Beam Barrage. And the reason that Cannons got +turn rate is because turn is king to flying with them.
You're dead wrong. CSV lasts 10 seconds, and will be active for 3 or 4 cycles depending on timing.
Beams vs cannons is like this:
Beams have longer firing cycles, wider arcs, deal less damage, and have less drop-off. Also they get different (on the whole worse) abilities.
The shorter firing cycles decreases the effectiveness of overcapping with cannons, but makes them more spike-heavy. The damage vs arc tradeoff is self-explanatory, or at least it really should be.The dropoff and speed is likely there for both canonical reasons and to make cannons less OP at single-target vaping.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
There used to be single-target cannon vaping.
Then in came Delta Rising...
One of the main issues with cannons these days is the enemy HP has skyrocketed, and the fact that there is a lot more mobs to fight at once. Of course that favors the more AoE heavy builds, such as FaW beam boats. Which is fine TBH; FaW was broken for SOOO long (and still kind of is due to accuracy overflow still not working properly, but at least it crits now). Add to that the fact that DHCs were #1 for YEARS, and I'm okay with beams taking the spotlight for a while. Not to say that cannons should be obsolete...
My favorite builds pre-DR were a mix of AP DBBs and DHCs up front, with the AP Omni, KCB, and a turret in the back. Worked great. Kind of miss it. I ran that on escorts and the like; gave them decent firing arc and enough diversity in weapons to handle pretty much anything (nothing more satisfying than popping off CRF and FaW at the same time). Big fat cruisers and carriers? I always ran pure beams. Kind of hard not to.
If Cryptic would give cannons a few good weapon-enhancing traits/buffs that are on par with the ones available for beams, we could all call it a day with the "Beams are OP!" argument...because that isn't really the case, after all. Beams are working as they should. Cannons need a couple more enhancement options with the recently buffed-up enemies and number of mobs.
Yes...beams getting on the whole worse abilities is why they're are so dominating?
Cannons negatives don't justify their damage potential...the only negatives beams have is their lower damage...which is made up for in a lot of ways including a trait which only buffs beam damage, which cannons don't have.
1: the ability is still giving the benefit to players long after the power was supposed to have expired.
2: the lag that the visual causes
When this started to give people the benefits of the power without the power itself having to be active, everyone should've known that's now how it was meant to work and it would get fixed. Consider an example of gaining +50 power from a battery consumable that never goes away even after the duration of the battery has expired then complaining about it when it gets fixed. this is what I see a great deal of happening with kemocite. The power is still lending benefits to people long after it's supposed to have expired, which you know is not intended, and people complaining they're not going to get to keep it. per the battery example, if you knew it was only supposed to last a certain amount of time, how can you then get mad when the extra 50 power is eventually taken like it was supposed to have been to start with? All that we know for sure is going to happen, is the ability no longer lends benefits after it expires, as it always was supposed to be.
The other thing being the visual. I can see certain machines lagging a bit when you have a ton of ships on the screen all firing weapons. However one ability on its own should not be causing the severity of lag we're seeing, especially not from one ship. If fixing the lag caused by the visual means the ability needs to be nerfed in the process, then so be it. The basic ability of someone to play the game ALWAYS trumps another persons ability to get a few extra dps points.
It shouldn't honestly have come as a surprise that this bugged ability was going to get fixed. that's just some of my thoughts on this whole deal.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
The fact that you're looking at Beam Barrage as being the reason beams are dominant in the current meta just goes to show how little you know about what's going on in the game.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Umm...read a little harder or "which is made up for in a lot of ways" = single way to you I guess?
Well Cryptic has done this before and it probably wont be the last time...in other words a ability which is clearly OP or broken, they take forever to fix it, prompting more and more people to purchase said power, they finally fix it, and then all the people who copied the people who discovered the power complain that it was nerfed.
THIS
Is exactly why I'm ever so glad that I did not even bother about kemo-sabe when I first saw the (greyed-out) powers on my Tac Boffs' list of skills & noticed that (when hovering my cursor over) little icon that said it's only available via lockbox.
No, I didn't check the exchange to see how expensive it was, let alone if it was even listed there.
I do just fine & dandy without it. With my T5-U fleet Avenger/Rainbow-warrior/Beam/Torpedo ship. Just fine & dandy. I shoot it & it dies a few seconds later. No problemo.
Will I buy it post nerf when the price drops "rock-bottom"? Maybe, maybe not; probably not even then.
All of these "uber" powers are NOT necessary to successfully play this game. IMHO most of them are nothing more than gimmicks & passing fads.
And I hope it also retains the pretty starbursts. Just optimized some to counter the crappy network providers who deliberately throttle the internet.
But beyond that, let the Kemo-therapy continue. Everything that isn't an ally is a cancer that must be treated. And high doses of Kemo-laced Neutronics and Gravimetrics deliver the biggest punch.
I agree. "Piloting skills" means people have played ISA/ISE so bloody much (literally thousands of times) they simply trained a pattern to be in a certain spot at a certain time mark because the queue literally plays out the same every time. It is a set dance with no deviation whatsoever.
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