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Unofficial Literary Challenge #16 Discussion Thread

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    antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    I've posted the first half? two-thirds? of my entry for #3 "The Obvious Weakness"! 4500 words of Borg action and family drama and I'm not even finished yet :# but I thought if I wait with posting until I'm done this will just end up being one more abandoned wip.

    I combined this month's prompt with this one from March

    That was a really intense first couple pieces - I'm really eager to see what the fallout will be - I'm assuming the good doctor was doing something more or less untested, just from the rest of it. :)

    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    @marcusdkane :o thank you!!
    Very welcome, I was gripped all the way through B)
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    Gonna expand a bit on what I said earlier. I really enjoyed the interactions between Joanne and Imberia. I think most of us have dealt with a well-meaning but overbearing parental unit at some point (granted, extreme example :D) and the characters' responses felt natural.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Gonna expand a bit on what I said earlier. I really enjoyed the interactions between Joanne and Imberia. I think most of us have dealt with a well-meaning but overbearing parental unit at some point (granted, extreme example :D) and the characters' responses felt natural.

    I know! MO-OOOOOM! I'm an ADMIRAL! That cracked me up. :D

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    jonnaroslynjonnaroslyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2015
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    jonnaroslynjonnaroslyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Gonna expand a bit on what I said earlier. I really enjoyed the interactions between Joanne and Imberia. I think most of us have dealt with a well-meaning but overbearing parental unit at some point (granted, extreme example :D) and the characters' responses felt natural.

    I'm really happy to hear that, because I worried their interaction would come across as too much or contrived!

    That was a really intense first couple pieces - I'm really eager to see what the fallout will be - I'm assuming the good doctor was doing something more or less untested, just from the rest of it. :)

    Glad you enjoyed it! :blush:
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Hey, just an FYI that in addition to "The Bitterest of Medicine," a non-Masterverse-continuity story I wrote for this ULC, I stayed up way too late last night putting the finishing touches on a Masterverse-canon short story titled "One Face for the World..." for the Unofficial Halloween Writing Contest thread. Regardless of what happens in the contest, I enjoyed writing it and I hope you'll like reading it. :) It fills in some missing gaps from the "Kenosis"/"The Truth in the Illusion" timeframe, and for that I am glad to have been pushed to write it. That...and there's the delightful coincidence of doing so for a Halloween challenge, seeing as Alyosha originated in a Halloween official LC. :)

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12759555/#Comment_12759555

    (Note: Those of you who have been following my stories will find a bit more exposition than you technically need. That was deliberate since for contest purposes, the story is intended to function as a stand-alone for those who are NOT familiar with my prior work.)

    I know some people are commenting on the contest stories IN the actual contest thread, but I thought it might be less clutter for the contest runner to deal with, for people to comment if they feel like it, in this thread instead. :)

    (Comments on "The Bitterest of Medicine"are also welcome. :) NOTE: That one has major spoilers for "Midnight." )

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    wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    I'm writing one involving an agent being dropped into enemy territory by a shuttle or a fighter, like a paratrooper or the SAS.
    What would such an agent's rank title be likely to be (based on either Trek or real life), and what branch would he be from, M.A.C.O.s or what (based on Trek)?
    And who might be running this, specifically who might the crew of the shuttle be reporting to - whoever the agent belongs to, or Intelligence because it's a secret mission, or some kind of Fighter Command, or who? My lack of military knowledge strikes again.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I'm writing one involving an agent being dropped into enemy territory by a shuttle or a fighter, like a paratrooper or the SAS.
    What would such an agent's rank title be likely to be (based on either Trek or real life), and what branch would he be from, M.A.C.O.s or what (based on Trek)?
    And who might be running this, specifically who might the crew of the shuttle be reporting to - whoever the agent belongs to, or Intelligence because it's a secret mission, or some kind of Fighter Command, or who? My lack of military knowledge strikes again.

    Well both the SAS and Paras are branches of the Army, Starfleet really only has the Navy (ship guys) and the marines (either the Starfleet ground troops from STV or AR11whatsit or MACOs). We also never see them but the pilots of the Peregrine fighters are probably some sort of Fleet Air Arm pilots.

    So they're probably marines of some sort.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I'm writing one involving an agent being dropped into enemy territory by a shuttle or a fighter, like a paratrooper or the SAS.
    What would such an agent's rank title be likely to be (based on either Trek or real life), and what branch would he be from, M.A.C.O.s or what (based on Trek)?
    And who might be running this, specifically who might the crew of the shuttle be reporting to - whoever the agent belongs to, or Intelligence because it's a secret mission, or some kind of Fighter Command, or who? My lack of military knowledge strikes again.
    Well, the answer to any and all of those questions, is "It depends on the story..." The agent in question could be anything from a cadet (ie Red Squad) to a starship captain (ie Picard)... If they have the skillset for the mission, they would be given it... Who they report to, could be anyone from their ship's commanding officer, to someone at Starfleet Command, or even Section 31. Who the shuttle's crew reports to, could even be someone different, for example: Admiral Someone at Command wants Lieutenant Badass to go on a mission, so Captain Otherguy orders a shuttle of FacelessNobodies to fly Lieutenant Badass over the dropzone, to not log the flight, and to not say TRIBBLE about it, or it'll be their asses... You also need to address why they have to be delivered by shuttle to the dropzone... Why can't they beam in? Would an orbital skydive work? Are they able to use contemporary equipment like an anti-grav harness, or OldSchool tech like a parachute, or even just rapelling off a line NUspock-Style... Pretty much all of that, is up to you as the writer ;) I'll look forward to reading it though B)
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    antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I'm writing one involving an agent being dropped into enemy territory by a shuttle or a fighter, like a paratrooper or the SAS.
    What would such an agent's rank title be likely to be (based on either Trek or real life), and what branch would he be from, M.A.C.O.s or what (based on Trek)?
    And who might be running this, specifically who might the crew of the shuttle be reporting to - whoever the agent belongs to, or Intelligence because it's a secret mission, or some kind of Fighter Command, or who? My lack of military knowledge strikes again.


    Well, probably an officer if on some sort of delicate intelligence mission - Starfleet tends to be flexible in assignments (if only because the 'best available' is several hundred light years closer than the 'best'). Depends what the mission is as well - could very well be medical if they're investigating a plague. They do a lot of ground work, may be MACO or Intelligence.

    James Bond, which may be of interest, was a Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve. Jack Ryan was a 2nd lieutenant, but his active career got cut short.
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

    Member Access Denied Armada!

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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    Jack Bauer, before his time at CTU (a fictional organization), had time in the US Army (Green Berets/Delta Force), then he worked for the LAPD Special Weapons and Tactics unit, then for CIA's Clandestine Services. So there are definitely multiple ways an agent can be written--both as military and non-military.

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    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    Just a little something which came to me for the Halloween Challenge... Courtesy and Protocol prevented me from writing the story I actually wanted to write, but I hope this will still entertain...

    --

    Tuan Neena - Kelcie Stranahan
    Marcus Kane - Matt Bomer
    Saffron Dallas - Christina Hendricks
    Roger Hunt - Taye Diggs
    Amanda Palmer - Ashley Greene
    Drew Mason - Garrett Hedlund
    Jedda Tobin - Bridget Moynahan
    Ned Lennox - Spencer Matthews
    Romax'tansky ch'Ehra - Nicholas Hoult
    Anthony Polizzi - Ryan Gosling
    Cameron Kane - Peta Wilson
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    wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    Just posted part 1 of my attempt at prompt 2. My first ever LC! Sorry it's very late. I keep getting into these states where I can't seem to string sentences together to express a perfectly simple thing - every way I try to say it looks weird. Apart from Mirra (who appears in the second half), none of these are actually my regular characters.

    Second half will follow in the next day or two, I've got it mostly written, just need to fill a few gaps. Like I thought I'd better post part 1 now or I'd never get the thing finished!

    I know this is probably bad in places, like I say it's my first LC, in fact my first completed Star Trek story at all. All constructive criticism or ideas of how it could be made better are welcome.
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    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    wombat140 wrote: »
    Just posted part 1 of my attempt at prompt 2. My first ever LC! Sorry it's very late. I keep getting into these states where I can't seem to string sentences together to express a perfectly simple thing - every way I try to say it looks weird. Apart from Mirra (who appears in the second half), none of these are actually my regular characters.

    Second half will follow in the next day or two, I've got it mostly written, just need to fill a few gaps. Like I thought I'd better post part 1 now or I'd never get the thing finished!

    I know this is probably bad in places, like I say it's my first LC, in fact my first completed Star Trek story at all. All constructive criticism or ideas of how it could be made better are welcome.
    wombat140 wrote: »
    Just posted part 1 of my attempt at prompt 2. My first ever LC! Sorry it's very late. I keep getting into these states where I can't seem to string sentences together to express a perfectly simple thing - every way I try to say it looks weird. Apart from Mirra (who appears in the second half), none of these are actually my regular characters.

    Second half will follow in the next day or two, I've got it mostly written, just need to fill a few gaps. Like I thought I'd better post part 1 now or I'd never get the thing finished!

    I know this is probably bad in places, like I say it's my first LC, in fact my first completed Star Trek story at all. All constructive criticism or ideas of how it could be made better are welcome.
    I really enjoyed that, definitely looking forward to Part II B)

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    antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    wombat140 wrote: »
    Just posted part 1 of my attempt at prompt 2. My first ever LC! Sorry it's very late. I keep getting into these states where I can't seem to string sentences together to express a perfectly simple thing - every way I try to say it looks weird. Apart from Mirra (who appears in the second half), none of these are actually my regular characters.

    Second half will follow in the next day or two, I've got it mostly written, just need to fill a few gaps. Like I thought I'd better post part 1 now or I'd never get the thing finished!

    I know this is probably bad in places, like I say it's my first LC, in fact my first completed Star Trek story at all. All constructive criticism or ideas of how it could be made better are welcome.

    The dialog's really nice and punchy between the two - it's part one so it's hard to make comments on plotting since this is set up ( 'miming' a shuttle launch is pretty funny). Looking forward to part 2, probably have more to say then.

    I am curious what triggered the phobia, if anything, considering the sometimes thin border between rational and irrational fear.
    Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker

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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Part three of A Voice in the Wilderness from ULC 8 will be posted in this challenge once I've finished it. I'm about half-done.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    Good to see you Starsword...I was starting to worry.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    gulberat wrote: »
    Good to see you Starsword...I was starting to worry.

    Yeah, I just haven't been on much for a while. Last weekend was a bit of a mess (Dad was having the upstairs carpets repaired so I had to disassemble my entertainment center and box everything up for a couple days), plus working overtime, plus the fact that I still can't get my phone to log back into the website (the Arc Defender confirmation email never shows up, and yes, I whitelisted it in my spam filter).

    Without giving too much away, the plan is to combine the "One of One" prompt where I started this miniseries with the "damaged nacelle" prompt in ULC 16.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    All done at last, good riddance. Again, any constructive comments or advice for improvement on any part of it at all are very welcome.

    Notes: Moomis is one of these: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Keenser
    Moomis was originally the most obvious "monkey" of the subtitle - I'd remembered his species as being more like monkeys than they actually are.

    Another little naval question: If Moomis is a sensor/"radar" technician, a fairly skilled expert (hence why he's been drafted in) but not a commissioned officer, how might he be addressed? Likewise Perry Jacobs (either a step below him on the ladder, or specialises in something else - haven't made up my mind as I'm thinking I might use her again)? I know if you're non-commissioned you have your rating (job description) as well as your rank, but I'm not sure how that translates into titles or how important someone of a given rank actually is.

    (Am not ignoring comments, will read them when have more energy to think about them, tired at the moment! ...does anyone else do that? not read their comments until feeling strong because stage fright?)
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,365 Arc User
    If he's enlisted, he's addressed by his rank or rating. If he's a civilian advisor (which doesn't really happen in navies, but might in Starfleet), he'd be addressed as "Mr." (or the equivalent title from his culture, if any), and treated as an officer with no authority to give orders except in the course of his duties.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    If he's enlisted, he's addressed by his rank or rating. If he's a civilian advisor (which doesn't really happen in navies, but might in Starfleet), he'd be addressed as "Mr." (or the equivalent title from his culture, if any), and treated as an officer with no authority to give orders except in the course of his duties.

    Basically this. For example, if your character Jane Smith is an E-5, or petty officer, second class, with the rating of sensor officer*, depending on the situation or personal preference she could be addressed as any of:
    • Petty Officer Smith
    • Sensor Officer Smith
    • Sensor Officer, Second Class Smith

    Senior non-commissioned officers (E-7 through E-10**) are typically addressed by the part before the words "petty officer". E.g. Chief O'Brien is identified by a Jem'Hadar in "Hippocratic Oath" as being a chief petty officer (though according to Ron Moore he's supposed to be a senior chief). Or for a non-Star Trek example, the Halo protagonist is called "the Master Chief" because his full name and title is Master Chief Petty Officer John-117.

    * I've essentially turned most of the Duty Officer specialization system into a list of enlisted ratings for my fics.
    ** E-10 being a group of special ranks for very senior noncoms, namely command master chief (advisor to the CO on enlisted issues), fleet/force master chief (advisor to the admiral in charge on enlisted issues), and master chief petty officer of the Navy, or of Starfleet in this case (advisor to the uppermost brass on enlisted issues).
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    jonnaroslynjonnaroslyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Just wanted to pop in to say that I haven't abandoned my story - I've written about 3k for part 2 with about 1k more to go, and will have it finished and posted by Monday, hopefully :)
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Petty officer or Chief Petty officer. The only two non Crewman NCO ranks mentioned in Star Trek. Starfleet is not the US Navy, it has a tiny percentage of NCOs, this is obvious from just watching the shows. The vast majority of low ranked background crew are either Ensigns or Crewmen.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    Just wanted to pop in to say that I haven't abandoned my story - I've written about 3k for part 2 with about 1k more to go, and will have it finished and posted by Monday, hopefully :)

    @jonnaroslyn: Looking forward to it!
    artan42 wrote: »
    Petty officer or Chief Petty officer. The only two non Crewman NCO ranks mentioned in Star Trek. Starfleet is not the US Navy, it has a tiny percentage of NCOs, this is obvious from just watching the shows. The vast majority of low ranked background crew are either Ensigns or Crewmen.​​

    I've always thought of Starfleet, despite some of its Navy trappings, being a lot more like the Air Force in many respects, including its officer to enlisted ratio, and the enlisted who are in the service, much like in the Air Force, are uniformly (pun not intended) high school graduates and tend to have a lot of skilled technical training.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    gulberat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Petty officer or Chief Petty officer. The only two non Crewman NCO ranks mentioned in Star Trek. Starfleet is not the US Navy, it has a tiny percentage of NCOs, this is obvious from just watching the shows. The vast majority of low ranked background crew are either Ensigns or Crewmen.

    I've always thought of Starfleet, despite some of its Navy trappings, being a lot more like the Air Force in many respects, including its officer to enlisted ratio, and the enlisted who are in the service, much like in the Air Force, are uniformly (pun not intended) high school graduates and tend to have a lot of skilled technical training.

    As it's similar to NASA (where it's made up quite heavily of USAF personnel) I would expect that to be so. All the NCOs in Starfleet I can think of were in operations or security, jobs where a high degree and officer training are not necessary. All the more technical jobs (engineering, command, tactical, science etc.) would have required advanced degrees, positions worthy of at least ensign.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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    wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Thanks for clearing up the title issue for me. "Chief" and "Petty" always sound so funny together somehow :) Also always makes me think of Fraser from Dad's Army who used to be a Petty Officer... a very petty officer! Good point about the Air Force. I've heard that one reason that Starfleet ranks look a bit USAF is that Gene Roddenberry knew more about the Air Force than the Navy and got all the ranks wrong before they could stop him - but if you think of it as a descendant of NASA, as Artan42 says, it makes IC sense as well.

    Little bit of a cop-out ending, I know. I tried to come up with more about what actually had happened (that they thought it was about but wasn't), but couldn't come up with anything that wasn't directly stolen from Knots and Crosses - war stories aren't my forte. Originally, the story was the shuttle flight incident (in fact, I dreamt it, to start with), and the counsellor wasn't in it at all; that got in later. Initially I just added that as two little bonus scenes; then I saw there was an LC prompt for a counsellor scene and went to town a bit on them, until they ended up nearly as long as the other half. I began by trying to open with the shuttle crew before cutting to the counsellor scene, but then I thought it might read more simply to begin with the counsellor scene straight away. Now I'm not sure. I'm worried that starting with what happens in Dr Gan's office wrong-foots people by making it look like what takes place there is going to be the pivot of the plot, when it's not, but starting with the shuttle crew means an extra jump-cut. What do you think? (for future reference, at least).

    Speaking of Ian Rankin, I confess that one reason why those two work well is that they're stolen - at least, I used two of Rankin's characters as starting points, and adjusted slightly from there. Allison's approximately Inspector Rebus, and Gan is Awful Dr Gates in another existence.
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    artan42 wrote: »
    gulberat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Petty officer or Chief Petty officer. The only two non Crewman NCO ranks mentioned in Star Trek. Starfleet is not the US Navy, it has a tiny percentage of NCOs, this is obvious from just watching the shows. The vast majority of low ranked background crew are either Ensigns or Crewmen.

    I've always thought of Starfleet, despite some of its Navy trappings, being a lot more like the Air Force in many respects, including its officer to enlisted ratio, and the enlisted who are in the service, much like in the Air Force, are uniformly (pun not intended) high school graduates and tend to have a lot of skilled technical training.

    As it's similar to NASA (where it's made up quite heavily of USAF personnel) I would expect that to be so. All the NCOs in Starfleet I can think of were in operations or security, jobs where a high degree and officer training are not necessary. All the more technical jobs (engineering, command, tactical, science etc.) would have required advanced degrees, positions worthy of at least ensign.​​

    Actually, USAF enlisted and NCO's are typically quite technically knowledgeable as well...part of why one of the ratings is actually Tech Sergeant. So even those without advanced degrees are likely to have had additional technical training and maybe even the equivalent of an associate's degree.

    In Trek, even before he got his position as chief engineer of DS9, it was obvious O'Brien was no slouch technically speaking...running a transporter is a huge responsibility and very technical at that.

    Oh, and IMO the Enterprise uniforms make the "descendent of NASA" thing all but canon. Even the interiors of the NX seem to be taking a page out of NASA's book. Whatever flaws ENT has, I'll never consider set or costume design for United Earth to be one of them.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    gulberat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    gulberat wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Petty officer or Chief Petty officer. The only two non Crewman NCO ranks mentioned in Star Trek. Starfleet is not the US Navy, it has a tiny percentage of NCOs, this is obvious from just watching the shows. The vast majority of low ranked background crew are either Ensigns or Crewmen.

    I've always thought of Starfleet, despite some of its Navy trappings, being a lot more like the Air Force in many respects, including its officer to enlisted ratio, and the enlisted who are in the service, much like in the Air Force, are uniformly (pun not intended) high school graduates and tend to have a lot of skilled technical training.

    As it's similar to NASA (where it's made up quite heavily of USAF personnel) I would expect that to be so. All the NCOs in Starfleet I can think of were in operations or security, jobs where a high degree and officer training are not necessary. All the more technical jobs (engineering, command, tactical, science etc.) would have required advanced degrees, positions worthy of at least ensign.

    Actually, USAF enlisted and NCO's are typically quite technically knowledgeable as well...part of why one of the ratings is actually Tech Sergeant. So even those without advanced degrees are likely to have had additional technical training and maybe even the equivalent of an associate's degree.

    In Trek, even before he got his position as chief engineer of DS9, it was obvious O'Brien was no slouch technically speaking...running a transporter is a huge responsibility and very technical at that.

    Oh, and IMO the Enterprise uniforms make the "descendent of NASA" thing all but canon. Even the interiors of the NX seem to be taking a page out of NASA's book. Whatever flaws ENT has, I'll never consider set or costume design for United Earth to be one of them.

    True, but that's for, at most, a plane or boat technician. That is nothing like the level of expertise needed for a spaceship.​​
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    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
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    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    The Federation education system seems to be quite different than it currently is, though. I seem to recall Jake Sisko--who was NOT mathematically skilled and one would expect him not to be on the advanced track--taking what we see as advanced calculus at an awfully early age compared to when it is offered in most school systems IRL. Meaning that a 24th century high school graduate might be able to outclass many with modern bachelor's degrees. So I think it is possible O'Brien (for example) is more comparable to a college undergraduate in his education level than a modern high school grad.

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