I want to apologize if I went a little too far on some of my earlier posts in this thread, but I feel very strongly that Theta should not be voted for at all in this voting. It would make a great command cruiser or dreadnaught if refined a bit, but not a carrier. In fact it is the only of the designs Cryptic is having us vote for that I don't like for a carrier. I am of the opinion it should not have even been included in the voting options. I'm fine if other ships I vote for lose, because I like all the other designs for carriers. But here, between these two, I feel very strongly that Theta not make it any farther in the voting. Cryptic, use Theta for a cruiser, not a carrier. I'd love it as a cruiser.
Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!
"Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
"Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
"To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
"To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
"Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
I want to apologize if I went a little too far on some of my earlier posts in this thread, but I feel very strongly that Theta should not be voted for at all in this voting. It would make a great command cruiser or dreadnaught if refined a bit, but not a carrier. In fact it is the only of the designs Cryptic is having us vote for that I don't like for a carrier. I am of the opinion it should not have even been included in the voting options. I'm fine if other ships I vote for lose, because I like all the other designs for carriers. But here, between these two, I feel very strongly that Theta not make it any farther in the voting. Cryptic, use Theta for a cruiser, not a carrier. I'd love it as a cruiser.
Well, that's like, your opinion, man. Of course you apologize, after voting ends and Theta loses.
Oh well.
Edit: Yeah. Hopefully they can find some way to use the losing ship designs in the game. They're all pretty decent looking and it would be a shame to let them go to waste.
I'm sure the design ideas won't be discarded entirely. I imagine Theta will be developed into an Ambassador or Guardian skin in the future, and Beta looks like it'd make an excellent science cruiser. Delta also looks like it could make a good science dreadnought. And even though I love the design, I'm hoping Omega doesn't win, since it looks similar to the Jupiter and I want to have the Jupiter itself as a playable ship, maybe use Omega as a refit skin for it.
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
Post edited by wakeoflove on
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.
Thank you! I could picture it in my head but had not the skills to show it like you did.
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
Ah... when you said "once again," I thought you meant it was happening again, like delta lost and was the bigger of the two and then theta was losing and is the bigger of the two... hence the diagrams, lol. I probably should have caught on about that "landslide" part, I was like, "Eh... I don't think theta's losing by a LANDSLIDE, but whatever."
Poor delta, I think it's strange that she lost so badly when she and alpha appear so closely related, at least to my eye, and alpha won her bracket. Plus gamma is just soooo ugly, maybe if they swap the top and bottom nacelles... or even them out. Not a big fan of the mis-matched nacelle sizes. Though I have hope that if alpha wins the whole thing we might get delta as a saucer option or something.
Maybe she would have fared better if we got more than just side and top down views. It would have been nice if they at least did a rough orthographic of each contender (top, bottom, side, fore, aft, 3/4) to give us a better sense of each in 3 dimensions. Trendy did say planning this competition took months, surely that was enough time to do a rough ortho of each >>.
It also would have likely been helpful if they posted the ship's stats right from the get go. Unless at some point we are supposed to have a say in that, though I don't think we do from looking at the timeline. Even then, I think if we had gotten that out of the way first, it would have allowed some designs to fare better. I keep seeing criticism that people don't like designs like delta or beta because they think they look too big and fat and heavy and they fear a TRIBBLE turn rate so they vote for the ship they think looks like it won't be a whale. If the devs had just told us, "It doesn't matter what it looks like, the turn rate will be X." Then we could have just left that out of the equation... though some may have actually voted for the heavier looking ships to complement the turn rate they saw if it was low or the faster looking ones if it was rather high. I imagine they didn't post the stats cause they wanted to save that tantrum for launch, lol.
But whatever, I hope we get some customization options in the end that might make more of us happy than just whatever ship ends up winning.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Are you sure all these ships are equal in size? Or could it just be an abstraction to make them more easily comparable?
I have to admit, it's a possibility that these ships are not to scale of one another, but that's just one more failure of this competition's presentation, aside from a rough ortho, having something like a defiant for comparison would have been nice to give a sense of scale. And having them to scale of one another on top of that would be great if the size of the ship is part of our design decision. Well then... looks like my earlier post needs an asterisk that leads to the fine print of "assuming these drawings are to scale." lol.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Before you post the next match up, you might want to get with the artist and have omega's card fixed. I pulled omega into a photo editor to see if I could tweak the design to be more to my liking and when I zoomed in a bit, I realized that the effect on the nacelles that makes them look a bit more 3d than other ships in the competition is actually a photoshopping error where someone left two different sizes of nacelle layers visible on top of each other. So either the larger ones underneath are what is meant in the design, or the smaller ones on top are, but yeah... might want to get that fixed before she enters her showdown.
*edit* I posted this here and then realized I could click on that little @ thing and it sent me to your... profile? Or whatever it is. So I copied and pasted it there too hoping you'll get it before the voting goes live.
*edit 2*
A image for referance:
Post edited by wakeoflove on
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
This was a close one! I could hardly decide but I felt that the quad nacelles would go better with a large ship like this, so I chose Epsilon.
if the final ship is either of these, I'll be happy.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
You didn't vote. Theta has no chance at winning if you don't vote in the very first post of this thread.
But it looks like it isn't going to win anyway, since these nOObs think 4 nacelles are better than 2.
Of course. More warp power! this is also why the glitch with the KDF elite fleet pistols is so amazing. 2 rifles at once!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
I'm voting Epsilon, sleeker design wins most time.
About interior volume - do not make me laugh, they will get max. 2 hangars - thats 12 fighters, 8 shuttles, and maybe (if designers put additional workhours) - 4 frigates.
Meh, I doubt i will buy it - at least from start.... got all 3 Breen ships set, so already got nice tier VI carrier.
What I really want is tier VI Dyson Science Destroyer 3-pack.
It would nicely fix "no good science ships for KDF and Roms" problem, and the Dyson megapack would get back to high popularity.... especially if new ships would get something that would expand their sets...
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
Where were you when Beta was up for vote?
Hands down most volume of all ships presented.
Whatever we end up with now won't be a Carrier compared to Beta.
Well I went for Epsilon, but to be honest only Alpha and Omega fit a carrier to me, and even then it's debatable. Omega has the obvious slots for hanger bays in it's primary hull, while Alpha has the feel of a large lumbering vessel. A while back I was talking in the Iconic T6 section about what i would like to see with a carrier. I find that it still holds weight today when I have noticed this build (Really build? it seems like were picking a ship from a list. kinda odd that) a carrier voting going on.
Even if it was a ship with minimal weapons and had to be used in a group function it would be fun. take a more long range battle type than get in it's face and DPS DPS DPS.
I'm running the breen carrier atm, and it's alright, but that's it. it's ALRIGHT. Pull some guns off of a carrier like it, add another hanger (or two), tweak with the settings. Make a bloody support ship. A REAL support ship, rather than a average cruiser with some minor tweaks. A Hanger to attack with, a hanger to defend a teammate, and a hanger to defend yourself. (and add another one in reserve for when you need it should there be 4 bays) Limit the weapons to turrets if you want to make it interesting. I mean make it like an aircraft carrier of the now. Limited on board ship weapons mostly for close defense and it's 'attack force/ long range defense' being it's fighter craft. Surely this game has gotten worked on enough to support 3+ pet bay carriers now a days, right? Make players think strategy not bashing in something's shields and then rip it apart.
Make it a slow heavy ship with a bog ol booty who can't turn well. It would make her something that other teammates might need to protect in their cruisers. escorts, destroyers and sneaky craft (science). This might be making it sound like WWII tactics (which it is) but it could bring back some TEAM dynamics again. On the flip side it could just make people hate the carrier guy. I dunno. I wouldn't mind trying this ship out if it was made.
That said and with these newer ship designs, I'm noticing a trend. Quad nacelles, BIG primary hulls, and weirdly shaped secondary hulls that seem oddly small to house warp cores let alone hanger craft. Frankly I'd find it more logical to have a smaller primary hull and more of a focus on the secondary in a carrier. I'll admit that the Quad engines make sense when you think of a large vessel moving to keep up with a fleet of faster moving vessels, it's the big primary hulls and little secondary hulls that throw me for a loop. Historically shuttle bays and carrier bays have been in secondary hull, and maybe this is a stickler for me but I rather prefer it that way. A lot of things have to be done for fighter/support craft. Ammo, fuel, and maintenance that would require space that would be best suited away from the more vital areas that are primarily housed in the Primary hull (hence the name).
Just a part of the rant I had planned but meh. i'll wait and see where the others are going with this.
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart, and I'm loling at how huge alpha got. Seeing her at that size I'm actually liking her even better now (she started growing on me after her win). I wonder if the devs will actually let this carrier be that massive in game.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
Where were you when Beta was up for vote?
Hands down most volume of all ships presented.
Whatever we end up with now won't be a Carrier compared to Beta.
Well based on what I recall from that thread, people were actually voting for alpha over beta because they thought beta looked too big and would thus end up with poor maneuverability, so they voted alpha hoping she'll get a better turn rate or something. So if I had popped in there with a chart to show that beta is indeed, a bigger ship than alpha, I would only be fanning the flames of the torches people gathered with their pitchforks to burn beta at the stake. Though if danpmk had popped in with their ship size comparison chart, alpha might have gotten the boot now that it it looks so huge, lol. This is why I think the devs should have told us the ship stats already if how it looks doesn't end up determining turn rate. If they told us the turn rate will be 6 no matter what, for example, then people could have cooled their heels about that and maybe even voted for the hulks so that they visually match that slow turn. Plus having a defiant or some other ship for scale would have been helpful, and making sure they are to scale against each other.
Again, I feel I have to bring up that trendy said planning this competition took months, they should have had a better presentation for each contender, rough orthographic, size comparison, and probably at least stats if not boff layout too.
I voted for beta, and she was my favorite of all of these from the start, but at least alpha has grown on me, epsilon isn't too bad, nor sigma, I think they kind of follow the defiant "flying brick" philosophy for combat vessels. And omega I actually kind of hated but I like it a bit more after I pulled it into a photo editor and messed around with it a bit.
Going with the smaller nacelles (from my notes above) and moving them in so they match the pylons, omega seems like it would be in line with the sovereign aesthetic to me. I am just not very fond of the visuals of nacelles sticking out past the saucer on the lateral plane, so after pulling them in I liked it better. Though I don't think the small nacelles were what the artist was going with given that the profile view's nacelles are now longer than in my graphic. I started messing around with trying to restore the larger nacelles, which has proven much more labor intensive and I don't think are even in the style of the smaller nacelles that got placed on top, so there's a lot of guess work in trying to figure out what the artist intended. But even with a partial reconstruction of it, getting rid of that "double" appearance suddenly made omega a lot more appealing to me. So if trendy gets omega fixed before her showdown, she might actually be a possibility to me, but her current state I'm not terribly fond of. It's strange how such tiny details can make or break things.
And here's what I threw together if gamma had her primary nacelles on top:
She might appeal to a broader audience if she were in this configuration, so... eh, it seems to me that we have more decent contenders than some of us may have thought, they just need some tweaking. The devil's in the details, and these little things make or break the designs. With a ship like gamma, they could give the option for whether the large nacelles are on top or bottom, or both the same size, that should be rather simple. But yeah... lets just hope these designs get even better when they get into their modeling phase and that we end up with some customization options/maybe the top two designs both get made as skins or something.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Well I went for Epsilon, but to be honest only Alpha and Omega fit a carrier to me, and even then it's debatable. Omega has the obvious slots for hanger bays in it's primary hull, while Alpha has the feel of a large lumbering vessel. A while back I was talking in the Iconic T6 section about what i would like to see with a carrier. I find that it still holds weight today when I have noticed this build (Really build? it seems like were picking a ship from a list. kinda odd that) a carrier voting going on.
Even if it was a ship with minimal weapons and had to be used in a group function it would be fun. take a more long range battle type than get in it's face and DPS DPS DPS.
I'm running the breen carrier atm, and it's alright, but that's it. it's ALRIGHT. Pull some guns off of a carrier like it, add another hanger (or two), tweak with the settings. Make a bloody support ship. A REAL support ship, rather than a average cruiser with some minor tweaks. A Hanger to attack with, a hanger to defend a teammate, and a hanger to defend yourself. (and add another one in reserve for when you need it should there be 4 bays) Limit the weapons to turrets if you want to make it interesting. I mean make it like an aircraft carrier of the now. Limited on board ship weapons mostly for close defense and it's 'attack force/ long range defense' being it's fighter craft. Surely this game has gotten worked on enough to support 3+ pet bay carriers now a days, right? Make players think strategy not bashing in something's shields and then rip it apart.
Make it a slow heavy ship with a bog ol booty who can't turn well. It would make her something that other teammates might need to protect in their cruisers. escorts, destroyers and sneaky craft (science). This might be making it sound like WWII tactics (which it is) but it could bring back some TEAM dynamics again. On the flip side it could just make people hate the carrier guy. I dunno. I wouldn't mind trying this ship out if it was made.
That said and with these newer ship designs, I'm noticing a trend. Quad nacelles, BIG primary hulls, and weirdly shaped secondary hulls that seem oddly small to house warp cores let alone hanger craft. Frankly I'd find it more logical to have a smaller primary hull and more of a focus on the secondary in a carrier. I'll admit that the Quad engines make sense when you think of a large vessel moving to keep up with a fleet of faster moving vessels, it's the big primary hulls and little secondary hulls that throw me for a loop. Historically shuttle bays and carrier bays have been in secondary hull, and maybe this is a stickler for me but I rather prefer it that way. A lot of things have to be done for fighter/support craft. Ammo, fuel, and maintenance that would require space that would be best suited away from the more vital areas that are primarily housed in the Primary hull (hence the name).
Just a part of the rant I had planned but meh. i'll wait and see where the others are going with this.
Well both the enterprise D and E had their main shuttle bay in the saucer, so sticking the hangars in the saucer (which is what the devs seem to be going for with that split in the middle of the saucer seeming to be the launch area) isn't really that big of a deal to me. Plus, given the saucer has pretty much always been the "primary hull" and thus the largest part of the ship, it makes sense to me that the designers would amplify the size of the primary hull and stick the hangars in there. Usually the secondary or "engineering" hull or "star drive" section is just that, the star drive, the warp core, engines, deflector, and fuel necessary for warp. And yes, usually the rather small shuttle bay ended up there too, likely because it's the engineering section so the shuttles are there to have a shorter route for fuel to travel and so the engineers are all in that section for maintenance and whatnot. Though most everything else is in the primary hull, the saucer.
In fact, that might be a reason for these ships to have that more "mono-hull"/unibody construction, depending on how the hangars are laid out, they could run the length of the center of the ship where they are well protected and might make it so that the fighters are stored/maintained rather close to engineering so that they have quick access to antimatter for fuel and the engineers can more easily double duty between engineering and the hangars as necessary.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Comments
How do you know there won't be a large interior volume in theta?
"Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
"Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
"To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
"To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
"Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
Well, that's like, your opinion, man. Of course you apologize, after voting ends and Theta loses.
Oh well.
Edit: Yeah. Hopefully they can find some way to use the losing ship designs in the game. They're all pretty decent looking and it would be a shame to let them go to waste.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Thank you! I could picture it in my head but had not the skills to show it like you did.
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
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Are you sure all these ships are equal in size? Or could it just be an abstraction to make them more easily comparable?
Ah... when you said "once again," I thought you meant it was happening again, like delta lost and was the bigger of the two and then theta was losing and is the bigger of the two... hence the diagrams, lol. I probably should have caught on about that "landslide" part, I was like, "Eh... I don't think theta's losing by a LANDSLIDE, but whatever."
Poor delta, I think it's strange that she lost so badly when she and alpha appear so closely related, at least to my eye, and alpha won her bracket. Plus gamma is just soooo ugly, maybe if they swap the top and bottom nacelles... or even them out. Not a big fan of the mis-matched nacelle sizes. Though I have hope that if alpha wins the whole thing we might get delta as a saucer option or something.
Maybe she would have fared better if we got more than just side and top down views. It would have been nice if they at least did a rough orthographic of each contender (top, bottom, side, fore, aft, 3/4) to give us a better sense of each in 3 dimensions. Trendy did say planning this competition took months, surely that was enough time to do a rough ortho of each >>.
It also would have likely been helpful if they posted the ship's stats right from the get go. Unless at some point we are supposed to have a say in that, though I don't think we do from looking at the timeline. Even then, I think if we had gotten that out of the way first, it would have allowed some designs to fare better. I keep seeing criticism that people don't like designs like delta or beta because they think they look too big and fat and heavy and they fear a TRIBBLE turn rate so they vote for the ship they think looks like it won't be a whale. If the devs had just told us, "It doesn't matter what it looks like, the turn rate will be X." Then we could have just left that out of the equation... though some may have actually voted for the heavier looking ships to complement the turn rate they saw if it was low or the faster looking ones if it was rather high. I imagine they didn't post the stats cause they wanted to save that tantrum for launch, lol.
But whatever, I hope we get some customization options in the end that might make more of us happy than just whatever ship ends up winning.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
I have to admit, it's a possibility that these ships are not to scale of one another, but that's just one more failure of this competition's presentation, aside from a rough ortho, having something like a defiant for comparison would have been nice to give a sense of scale. And having them to scale of one another on top of that would be great if the size of the ship is part of our design decision. Well then... looks like my earlier post needs an asterisk that leads to the fine print of "assuming these drawings are to scale." lol.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Hey Trendy,
Before you post the next match up, you might want to get with the artist and have omega's card fixed. I pulled omega into a photo editor to see if I could tweak the design to be more to my liking and when I zoomed in a bit, I realized that the effect on the nacelles that makes them look a bit more 3d than other ships in the competition is actually a photoshopping error where someone left two different sizes of nacelle layers visible on top of each other. So either the larger ones underneath are what is meant in the design, or the smaller ones on top are, but yeah... might want to get that fixed before she enters her showdown.
*edit* I posted this here and then realized I could click on that little @ thing and it sent me to your... profile? Or whatever it is. So I copied and pasted it there too hoping you'll get it before the voting goes live.
*edit 2*
A image for referance:
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Or at least heavily influenced by it.
if the final ship is either of these, I'll be happy.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Of course. More warp power! this is also why the glitch with the KDF elite fleet pistols is so amazing. 2 rifles at once!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
About interior volume - do not make me laugh, they will get max. 2 hangars - thats 12 fighters, 8 shuttles, and maybe (if designers put additional workhours) - 4 frigates.
Meh, I doubt i will buy it - at least from start.... got all 3 Breen ships set, so already got nice tier VI carrier.
What I really want is tier VI Dyson Science Destroyer 3-pack.
It would nicely fix "no good science ships for KDF and Roms" problem, and the Dyson megapack would get back to high popularity.... especially if new ships would get something that would expand their sets...
Love the quad Nacel look.
Where were you when Beta was up for vote?
Hands down most volume of all ships presented.
Whatever we end up with now won't be a Carrier compared to Beta.
That said and with these newer ship designs, I'm noticing a trend. Quad nacelles, BIG primary hulls, and weirdly shaped secondary hulls that seem oddly small to house warp cores let alone hanger craft. Frankly I'd find it more logical to have a smaller primary hull and more of a focus on the secondary in a carrier. I'll admit that the Quad engines make sense when you think of a large vessel moving to keep up with a fleet of faster moving vessels, it's the big primary hulls and little secondary hulls that throw me for a loop. Historically shuttle bays and carrier bays have been in secondary hull, and maybe this is a stickler for me but I rather prefer it that way. A lot of things have to be done for fighter/support craft. Ammo, fuel, and maintenance that would require space that would be best suited away from the more vital areas that are primarily housed in the Primary hull (hence the name).
Just a part of the rant I had planned but meh. i'll wait and see where the others are going with this.
Nice chart, and I'm loling at how huge alpha got. Seeing her at that size I'm actually liking her even better now (she started growing on me after her win). I wonder if the devs will actually let this carrier be that massive in game.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Well based on what I recall from that thread, people were actually voting for alpha over beta because they thought beta looked too big and would thus end up with poor maneuverability, so they voted alpha hoping she'll get a better turn rate or something. So if I had popped in there with a chart to show that beta is indeed, a bigger ship than alpha, I would only be fanning the flames of the torches people gathered with their pitchforks to burn beta at the stake. Though if danpmk had popped in with their ship size comparison chart, alpha might have gotten the boot now that it it looks so huge, lol. This is why I think the devs should have told us the ship stats already if how it looks doesn't end up determining turn rate. If they told us the turn rate will be 6 no matter what, for example, then people could have cooled their heels about that and maybe even voted for the hulks so that they visually match that slow turn. Plus having a defiant or some other ship for scale would have been helpful, and making sure they are to scale against each other.
Again, I feel I have to bring up that trendy said planning this competition took months, they should have had a better presentation for each contender, rough orthographic, size comparison, and probably at least stats if not boff layout too.
I voted for beta, and she was my favorite of all of these from the start, but at least alpha has grown on me, epsilon isn't too bad, nor sigma, I think they kind of follow the defiant "flying brick" philosophy for combat vessels. And omega I actually kind of hated but I like it a bit more after I pulled it into a photo editor and messed around with it a bit.
Going with the smaller nacelles (from my notes above) and moving them in so they match the pylons, omega seems like it would be in line with the sovereign aesthetic to me. I am just not very fond of the visuals of nacelles sticking out past the saucer on the lateral plane, so after pulling them in I liked it better. Though I don't think the small nacelles were what the artist was going with given that the profile view's nacelles are now longer than in my graphic. I started messing around with trying to restore the larger nacelles, which has proven much more labor intensive and I don't think are even in the style of the smaller nacelles that got placed on top, so there's a lot of guess work in trying to figure out what the artist intended. But even with a partial reconstruction of it, getting rid of that "double" appearance suddenly made omega a lot more appealing to me. So if trendy gets omega fixed before her showdown, she might actually be a possibility to me, but her current state I'm not terribly fond of. It's strange how such tiny details can make or break things.
And here's what I threw together if gamma had her primary nacelles on top:
She might appeal to a broader audience if she were in this configuration, so... eh, it seems to me that we have more decent contenders than some of us may have thought, they just need some tweaking. The devil's in the details, and these little things make or break the designs. With a ship like gamma, they could give the option for whether the large nacelles are on top or bottom, or both the same size, that should be rather simple. But yeah... lets just hope these designs get even better when they get into their modeling phase and that we end up with some customization options/maybe the top two designs both get made as skins or something.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Well both the enterprise D and E had their main shuttle bay in the saucer, so sticking the hangars in the saucer (which is what the devs seem to be going for with that split in the middle of the saucer seeming to be the launch area) isn't really that big of a deal to me. Plus, given the saucer has pretty much always been the "primary hull" and thus the largest part of the ship, it makes sense to me that the designers would amplify the size of the primary hull and stick the hangars in there. Usually the secondary or "engineering" hull or "star drive" section is just that, the star drive, the warp core, engines, deflector, and fuel necessary for warp. And yes, usually the rather small shuttle bay ended up there too, likely because it's the engineering section so the shuttles are there to have a shorter route for fuel to travel and so the engineers are all in that section for maintenance and whatnot. Though most everything else is in the primary hull, the saucer.
In fact, that might be a reason for these ships to have that more "mono-hull"/unibody construction, depending on how the hangars are laid out, they could run the length of the center of the ship where they are well protected and might make it so that the fighters are stored/maintained rather close to engineering so that they have quick access to antimatter for fuel and the engineers can more easily double duty between engineering and the hangars as necessary.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.