I want to apologize if I went a little too far on some of my earlier posts in this thread, but I feel very strongly that Theta should not be voted for at all in this voting. It would make a great command cruiser or dreadnaught if refined a bit, but not a carrier. In fact it is the only of the designs Cryptic is having us vote for that I don't like for a carrier. I am of the opinion it should not have even been included in the voting options. I'm fine if other ships I vote for lose, because I like all the other designs for carriers. But here, between these two, I feel very strongly that Theta not make it any farther in the voting. Cryptic, use Theta for a cruiser, not a carrier. I'd love it as a cruiser.
Been Playing STO as much as I can for 11+ Years!
"Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
"Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
"To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
"To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
"Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
I want to apologize if I went a little too far on some of my earlier posts in this thread, but I feel very strongly that Theta should not be voted for at all in this voting. It would make a great command cruiser or dreadnaught if refined a bit, but not a carrier. In fact it is the only of the designs Cryptic is having us vote for that I don't like for a carrier. I am of the opinion it should not have even been included in the voting options. I'm fine if other ships I vote for lose, because I like all the other designs for carriers. But here, between these two, I feel very strongly that Theta not make it any farther in the voting. Cryptic, use Theta for a cruiser, not a carrier. I'd love it as a cruiser.
Well, that's like, your opinion, man. Of course you apologize, after voting ends and Theta loses.
Oh well.
Edit: Yeah. Hopefully they can find some way to use the losing ship designs in the game. They're all pretty decent looking and it would be a shame to let them go to waste.
I'm sure the design ideas won't be discarded entirely. I imagine Theta will be developed into an Ambassador or Guardian skin in the future, and Beta looks like it'd make an excellent science cruiser. Delta also looks like it could make a good science dreadnought. And even though I love the design, I'm hoping Omega doesn't win, since it looks similar to the Jupiter and I want to have the Jupiter itself as a playable ship, maybe use Omega as a refit skin for it.
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
Post edited by wakeoflove on
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.
Thank you! I could picture it in my head but had not the skills to show it like you did.
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
Ah... when you said "once again," I thought you meant it was happening again, like delta lost and was the bigger of the two and then theta was losing and is the bigger of the two... hence the diagrams, lol. I probably should have caught on about that "landslide" part, I was like, "Eh... I don't think theta's losing by a LANDSLIDE, but whatever."
Poor delta, I think it's strange that she lost so badly when she and alpha appear so closely related, at least to my eye, and alpha won her bracket. Plus gamma is just soooo ugly, maybe if they swap the top and bottom nacelles... or even them out. Not a big fan of the mis-matched nacelle sizes. Though I have hope that if alpha wins the whole thing we might get delta as a saucer option or something.
Maybe she would have fared better if we got more than just side and top down views. It would have been nice if they at least did a rough orthographic of each contender (top, bottom, side, fore, aft, 3/4) to give us a better sense of each in 3 dimensions. Trendy did say planning this competition took months, surely that was enough time to do a rough ortho of each >>.
It also would have likely been helpful if they posted the ship's stats right from the get go. Unless at some point we are supposed to have a say in that, though I don't think we do from looking at the timeline. Even then, I think if we had gotten that out of the way first, it would have allowed some designs to fare better. I keep seeing criticism that people don't like designs like delta or beta because they think they look too big and fat and heavy and they fear a TRIBBLE turn rate so they vote for the ship they think looks like it won't be a whale. If the devs had just told us, "It doesn't matter what it looks like, the turn rate will be X." Then we could have just left that out of the equation... though some may have actually voted for the heavier looking ships to complement the turn rate they saw if it was low or the faster looking ones if it was rather high. I imagine they didn't post the stats cause they wanted to save that tantrum for launch, lol.
But whatever, I hope we get some customization options in the end that might make more of us happy than just whatever ship ends up winning.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Are you sure all these ships are equal in size? Or could it just be an abstraction to make them more easily comparable?
I have to admit, it's a possibility that these ships are not to scale of one another, but that's just one more failure of this competition's presentation, aside from a rough ortho, having something like a defiant for comparison would have been nice to give a sense of scale. And having them to scale of one another on top of that would be great if the size of the ship is part of our design decision. Well then... looks like my earlier post needs an asterisk that leads to the fine print of "assuming these drawings are to scale." lol.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Before you post the next match up, you might want to get with the artist and have omega's card fixed. I pulled omega into a photo editor to see if I could tweak the design to be more to my liking and when I zoomed in a bit, I realized that the effect on the nacelles that makes them look a bit more 3d than other ships in the competition is actually a photoshopping error where someone left two different sizes of nacelle layers visible on top of each other. So either the larger ones underneath are what is meant in the design, or the smaller ones on top are, but yeah... might want to get that fixed before she enters her showdown.
*edit* I posted this here and then realized I could click on that little @ thing and it sent me to your... profile? Or whatever it is. So I copied and pasted it there too hoping you'll get it before the voting goes live.
*edit 2*
A image for referance:
Post edited by wakeoflove on
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
This was a close one! I could hardly decide but I felt that the quad nacelles would go better with a large ship like this, so I chose Epsilon.
if the final ship is either of these, I'll be happy.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
You didn't vote. Theta has no chance at winning if you don't vote in the very first post of this thread.
But it looks like it isn't going to win anyway, since these nOObs think 4 nacelles are better than 2.
Of course. More warp power! this is also why the glitch with the KDF elite fleet pistols is so amazing. 2 rifles at once!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
I'm voting Epsilon, sleeker design wins most time.
About interior volume - do not make me laugh, they will get max. 2 hangars - thats 12 fighters, 8 shuttles, and maybe (if designers put additional workhours) - 4 frigates.
Meh, I doubt i will buy it - at least from start.... got all 3 Breen ships set, so already got nice tier VI carrier.
What I really want is tier VI Dyson Science Destroyer 3-pack.
It would nicely fix "no good science ships for KDF and Roms" problem, and the Dyson megapack would get back to high popularity.... especially if new ships would get something that would expand their sets...
Everyone does know this is for a carrier, right? Need a large interior volume. epsilon
Once again, the design with the most and most sensible use of interor volume lost in a landslide vote. You people have no idea what you want, aside from "it has to look like a race car"
(...)
Remember that people have different tastes and opinions. In mass market, beer and pretzels science fiction, those tastes don't necessarily have to be logical.
If arguing logically (efficient use of space) and then making a vote that goes against that I feel there is reason to point that out. And if anyone takes arguing about video game space ships more serious than they should it's not my problem
I'll never argue against anyone's taste (how terrible it might be ) as that's subjective and totally fine.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
Where were you when Beta was up for vote?
Hands down most volume of all ships presented.
Whatever we end up with now won't be a Carrier compared to Beta.
Well I went for Epsilon, but to be honest only Alpha and Omega fit a carrier to me, and even then it's debatable. Omega has the obvious slots for hanger bays in it's primary hull, while Alpha has the feel of a large lumbering vessel. A while back I was talking in the Iconic T6 section about what i would like to see with a carrier. I find that it still holds weight today when I have noticed this build (Really build? it seems like were picking a ship from a list. kinda odd that) a carrier voting going on.
Even if it was a ship with minimal weapons and had to be used in a group function it would be fun. take a more long range battle type than get in it's face and DPS DPS DPS.
I'm running the breen carrier atm, and it's alright, but that's it. it's ALRIGHT. Pull some guns off of a carrier like it, add another hanger (or two), tweak with the settings. Make a bloody support ship. A REAL support ship, rather than a average cruiser with some minor tweaks. A Hanger to attack with, a hanger to defend a teammate, and a hanger to defend yourself. (and add another one in reserve for when you need it should there be 4 bays) Limit the weapons to turrets if you want to make it interesting. I mean make it like an aircraft carrier of the now. Limited on board ship weapons mostly for close defense and it's 'attack force/ long range defense' being it's fighter craft. Surely this game has gotten worked on enough to support 3+ pet bay carriers now a days, right? Make players think strategy not bashing in something's shields and then rip it apart.
Make it a slow heavy ship with a bog ol booty who can't turn well. It would make her something that other teammates might need to protect in their cruisers. escorts, destroyers and sneaky craft (science). This might be making it sound like WWII tactics (which it is) but it could bring back some TEAM dynamics again. On the flip side it could just make people hate the carrier guy. I dunno. I wouldn't mind trying this ship out if it was made.
That said and with these newer ship designs, I'm noticing a trend. Quad nacelles, BIG primary hulls, and weirdly shaped secondary hulls that seem oddly small to house warp cores let alone hanger craft. Frankly I'd find it more logical to have a smaller primary hull and more of a focus on the secondary in a carrier. I'll admit that the Quad engines make sense when you think of a large vessel moving to keep up with a fleet of faster moving vessels, it's the big primary hulls and little secondary hulls that throw me for a loop. Historically shuttle bays and carrier bays have been in secondary hull, and maybe this is a stickler for me but I rather prefer it that way. A lot of things have to be done for fighter/support craft. Ammo, fuel, and maintenance that would require space that would be best suited away from the more vital areas that are primarily housed in the Primary hull (hence the name).
Just a part of the rant I had planned but meh. i'll wait and see where the others are going with this.
I made a size comparison if the ships on the assumption that their nacelles are loosely expected to be about the same length, compared to the Odyssey: http://imgur.com/t8LTo9r
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Nice chart, and I'm loling at how huge alpha got. Seeing her at that size I'm actually liking her even better now (she started growing on me after her win). I wonder if the devs will actually let this carrier be that massive in game.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Comments
Well you say this now, but you voted the other way.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
How do you know there won't be a large interior volume in theta?
"Never Surrender! Never give up Hope!"
"Prosperity and Success in everything you do."
"To Boldly go.........well punch it already!"
"To Be or Not To Be"....Alas, the Foundry is Not To Be. We Shall miss Thee, dear Friend!
"Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"- Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Thank You, Cryptic......even when I don't agree with all your decisions....Thank You for Star Trek Online!
Well, that's like, your opinion, man. Of course you apologize, after voting ends and Theta loses.
Oh well.
Edit: Yeah. Hopefully they can find some way to use the losing ship designs in the game. They're all pretty decent looking and it would be a shame to let them go to waste.
To settle this "internal volume" question for good:
Take off the nacelles/pylons and it's plain to see that epsilon is a big, solid, full of internal volume vessel, while theta's profile is full of empty space between the nacelles, empty space where her neck cinches in and empty space where her secondary hull sharply tapers off which is clearly not made up for by the volume of her protruding "belly".
Battle of the biggest saucer:
Winner: Epsilon*
Battle of the most secondary hull:
Winner: Epsilon.*
*: Assuming these ships are drawn to scale of one another.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Thank you! I could picture it in my head but had not the skills to show it like you did.
Nice work, but I never meant Epsilon or Theta. I'm still arguing in favour of Delta which lost in a landslide (30 to 70) despite having, judging by the pics we have, the biggest and most efficient use of internal space (because it's a saucer). Yet many people claim they vote on a practical basis but then vote for the weird escorts.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Are you sure all these ships are equal in size? Or could it just be an abstraction to make them more easily comparable?
Ah... when you said "once again," I thought you meant it was happening again, like delta lost and was the bigger of the two and then theta was losing and is the bigger of the two... hence the diagrams, lol. I probably should have caught on about that "landslide" part, I was like, "Eh... I don't think theta's losing by a LANDSLIDE, but whatever."
Poor delta, I think it's strange that she lost so badly when she and alpha appear so closely related, at least to my eye, and alpha won her bracket. Plus gamma is just soooo ugly, maybe if they swap the top and bottom nacelles... or even them out. Not a big fan of the mis-matched nacelle sizes. Though I have hope that if alpha wins the whole thing we might get delta as a saucer option or something.
Maybe she would have fared better if we got more than just side and top down views. It would have been nice if they at least did a rough orthographic of each contender (top, bottom, side, fore, aft, 3/4) to give us a better sense of each in 3 dimensions. Trendy did say planning this competition took months, surely that was enough time to do a rough ortho of each >>.
It also would have likely been helpful if they posted the ship's stats right from the get go. Unless at some point we are supposed to have a say in that, though I don't think we do from looking at the timeline. Even then, I think if we had gotten that out of the way first, it would have allowed some designs to fare better. I keep seeing criticism that people don't like designs like delta or beta because they think they look too big and fat and heavy and they fear a TRIBBLE turn rate so they vote for the ship they think looks like it won't be a whale. If the devs had just told us, "It doesn't matter what it looks like, the turn rate will be X." Then we could have just left that out of the equation... though some may have actually voted for the heavier looking ships to complement the turn rate they saw if it was low or the faster looking ones if it was rather high. I imagine they didn't post the stats cause they wanted to save that tantrum for launch, lol.
But whatever, I hope we get some customization options in the end that might make more of us happy than just whatever ship ends up winning.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
I have to admit, it's a possibility that these ships are not to scale of one another, but that's just one more failure of this competition's presentation, aside from a rough ortho, having something like a defiant for comparison would have been nice to give a sense of scale. And having them to scale of one another on top of that would be great if the size of the ship is part of our design decision. Well then... looks like my earlier post needs an asterisk that leads to the fine print of "assuming these drawings are to scale." lol.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Hey Trendy,
Before you post the next match up, you might want to get with the artist and have omega's card fixed. I pulled omega into a photo editor to see if I could tweak the design to be more to my liking and when I zoomed in a bit, I realized that the effect on the nacelles that makes them look a bit more 3d than other ships in the competition is actually a photoshopping error where someone left two different sizes of nacelle layers visible on top of each other. So either the larger ones underneath are what is meant in the design, or the smaller ones on top are, but yeah... might want to get that fixed before she enters her showdown.
*edit* I posted this here and then realized I could click on that little @ thing and it sent me to your... profile? Or whatever it is. So I copied and pasted it there too hoping you'll get it before the voting goes live.
*edit 2*
A image for referance:
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.
Or at least heavily influenced by it.
if the final ship is either of these, I'll be happy.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I would have embedded it but the image is too large
Of course. More warp power! this is also why the glitch with the KDF elite fleet pistols is so amazing. 2 rifles at once!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
Nice chart. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hoping the new carrier has a bit of size to it, when all is said and done.
About interior volume - do not make me laugh, they will get max. 2 hangars - thats 12 fighters, 8 shuttles, and maybe (if designers put additional workhours) - 4 frigates.
Meh, I doubt i will buy it - at least from start.... got all 3 Breen ships set, so already got nice tier VI carrier.
What I really want is tier VI Dyson Science Destroyer 3-pack.
It would nicely fix "no good science ships for KDF and Roms" problem, and the Dyson megapack would get back to high popularity.... especially if new ships would get something that would expand their sets...
Love the quad Nacel look.
Where were you when Beta was up for vote?
Hands down most volume of all ships presented.
Whatever we end up with now won't be a Carrier compared to Beta.
That said and with these newer ship designs, I'm noticing a trend. Quad nacelles, BIG primary hulls, and weirdly shaped secondary hulls that seem oddly small to house warp cores let alone hanger craft. Frankly I'd find it more logical to have a smaller primary hull and more of a focus on the secondary in a carrier. I'll admit that the Quad engines make sense when you think of a large vessel moving to keep up with a fleet of faster moving vessels, it's the big primary hulls and little secondary hulls that throw me for a loop. Historically shuttle bays and carrier bays have been in secondary hull, and maybe this is a stickler for me but I rather prefer it that way. A lot of things have to be done for fighter/support craft. Ammo, fuel, and maintenance that would require space that would be best suited away from the more vital areas that are primarily housed in the Primary hull (hence the name).
Just a part of the rant I had planned but meh. i'll wait and see where the others are going with this.
Nice chart, and I'm loling at how huge alpha got. Seeing her at that size I'm actually liking her even better now (she started growing on me after her win). I wonder if the devs will actually let this carrier be that massive in game.
The Nebula-configured Odyssey needs to be a thing.