I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
Totally agree. Important plot points belong INTO the game, not some obscure blog on a website. An ingame message, a cutscene, a NPC telling you the news, all of this would be better than a blog.
I do agree with your main point: story should be told IN the game. People shouldn't have to go outside the game to feel like they are getting the full storyline.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
I do like the blogs as a way to get more content quickly out there to help enhance what goes in the game - it would be nice if these could be read in game, too.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
I do like the blogs as a way to get more content quickly out there to help enhance what goes in the game - it would be nice if these could be read in game, too.
This... about the only way these things could be added to the game is as flat text really... why? because they're told from a perspective that excludes the player.
I do like the blogs as a way to get more content quickly out there to help enhance what goes in the game - it would be nice if these could be read in game, too.
SWTOR tells some minor parts of its stories by having you receive emails from NPCs in the game. Small status updates, thanks for helping them, etc.
To me that's more immersive than reading the same text would be outside of the game.
I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
I'm happy with the devs trying to use multiple platforms for storytelling and lore-building, yes, and I recommend that they continue to do what they're doing. I guess dissenting opinions (and that's basically all you're working with here) present a problem for you, but I am more than happy to have Trendy and the Cryptic team expand the story from the limited confines of the game itself. I'd really like to see the story expanded into even more off-game media, if possible. I usually just skip right past the boring cutscenes, but I do enjoy reading the blogs. Perhaps make the blogs even more of a prominent feature than they already are.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
I'm happy with the devs trying to use multiple platforms for storytelling and lore-building, yes, and I recommend that they continue to do what they're doing. I guess dissenting opinions (and that's basically all you're working with here) present a problem for you, but I am more than happy to have Trendy and the Cryptic team expand the story from the limited confines of the game itself. I'd really like to see the story expanded into even more off-game media, if possible. I usually just skip right past the boring cutscenes, but I do enjoy reading the blogs. Perhaps make the blogs even more of a prominent feature than they already are.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
Calling something wrong without explaining how or why is pointless.
I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
I'm happy with the devs trying to use multiple platforms for storytelling and lore-building, yes, and I recommend that they continue to do what they're doing. I guess dissenting opinions (and that's basically all you're working with here) present a problem for you, but I am more than happy to have Trendy and the Cryptic team expand the story from the limited confines of the game itself. I'd really like to see the story expanded into even more off-game media, if possible. I usually just skip right past the boring cutscenes, but I do enjoy reading the blogs. Perhaps make the blogs even more of a prominent feature than they already are.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
Calling something wrong without explaining how or why is pointless.
Except for the part where I've explained why repeatedly?
And do I really have to explain why the media that's the primary outlet for a given story should contain the bulk of that story? Do you think it's acceptable for example to watch a movie then be told to read a leaflet containing the bulk of it's plot while all you actually see is shooty shooty pew pew? (Yes I know some movies have actually done this, and they were TRIBBLE because of it).
This isn't even going into the fact that this person admitted they skip the "boring" cutscenes and thus don't really care that much about the story to begin with.
I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
I'm happy with the devs trying to use multiple platforms for storytelling and lore-building, yes, and I recommend that they continue to do what they're doing. I guess dissenting opinions (and that's basically all you're working with here) present a problem for you, but I am more than happy to have Trendy and the Cryptic team expand the story from the limited confines of the game itself. I'd really like to see the story expanded into even more off-game media, if possible. I usually just skip right past the boring cutscenes, but I do enjoy reading the blogs. Perhaps make the blogs even more of a prominent feature than they already are.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
Calling something wrong without explaining how or why is pointless.
Except for the part where I've explained why repeatedly?
No, you misunderstand. In your previous post, you said 2 important things:
1) dissenting opinions are fine
2) lizwei's post was or contained "blatantly wrong assertions"
To support your second statement, you have to actually explain how lizei's points are "blatantly wrong". You can't simply offer your own dissenting opinion, which is all you have done so far. You have to actually offer some proof for how it is "blatantly wrong". Unless you actually think your own singular opinion is the authority on what is right or wrong.
I am fine with story being included in external media, because it gives me more reason to read the blogs, to go into the supplementary material. In fact, I encourage Trendy and the staff to do more of this to build on lore and and story both inside and outside the game. More of these blogs please.
If people don't like it, then they don't like it, and it's not a big deal.
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
I'm happy with the devs trying to use multiple platforms for storytelling and lore-building, yes, and I recommend that they continue to do what they're doing. I guess dissenting opinions (and that's basically all you're working with here) present a problem for you, but I am more than happy to have Trendy and the Cryptic team expand the story from the limited confines of the game itself. I'd really like to see the story expanded into even more off-game media, if possible. I usually just skip right past the boring cutscenes, but I do enjoy reading the blogs. Perhaps make the blogs even more of a prominent feature than they already are.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
Calling something wrong without explaining how or why is pointless.
Except for the part where I've explained why repeatedly?
No, you misunderstand. In your previous post, you said 2 important things:
1) dissenting opinions are fine
2) lizwei's post was or contained "blatantly wrong assertions"
To support your second statement, you have to actually explain how lizei's points are "blatantly wrong". You can't simply offer your own dissenting opinion, which is all you have done so far. You have to actually offer some proof for how it is "blatantly wrong". Unless you actually think your own singular opinion is the authority on what is right or wrong.
Again, are you going to argue that the primary vector for a story shouldn't tell that story?
That is not a valid opinion, that is an objectively invalid statement. It's like saying that police officers should only stop a crime if they feel like it. You can have that opinion, but that opinion is wrong.
I'm really sick and tired of internet pundits using opinion as a get out of jail free card. There is such a thing as wrong opinions, and it is very basic to figure out why this one is so.
It's not using an opinion as a get out of jail free card, because all you have here is an opinion. There are players who enjoy gleaning a bit of the story from out of game sources, and there are players who don't That's what it comes down to, but you're two-sentence explanation on why you are objectively correct is nothing but bluster and self-importance.
Your statement is entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with the problem here.
I already said that blogs as a story supplement are fine. Blogs as a replacement for the story are not.
In case this needs to be explained to you, supplements are background info, side stories, incidental minutia.
Supplements are not major storyline events, world setting events and changes in the status of major characters.
What the Iconian Fake War and these blogs did is the equivalent of TNG's Best of Both Worlds introducing the Borg cube incursion then immediately switching to the cube blowing up and telling you to read a blog if you want to find out what happened in between.
The issue is that these moments are near impossible to show ingame outside of pure text or long rambling cutscenes as these don't involve the player character at all, and with a good reason.
The player has been promoted mainly due to their prowess in battle, the alliance views us as a tool, someone who turns up, is told what the plan is, and has been known to pull nearly impossible feats to complete said plan, but we are not the people who make these plans, and whilst some players may argue against the plan, others would willingly follow it making it impossible for these moments to be about the players, so they pick other characters and give their views on the progression of the war.
Should these things be in game, perhaps at a console or inventory clickie as "Secret tales of the war" or something, I'm not going to say no, what I will say is that despite the complaints, these blogs don't detract from the story but add to it.
Imagine if each of the season episodes started with a short (skippable!) cutscene that was a montage of recent events happening to others: battles lost, planets conquered or exterminated, now and then a minor success. They could call it a "briefing for the admirals / generals" or go with the 40s propaganda and make it a newsreel.
Putting in "tales of the war" that way would have given us more context in game.
For personal stories of the war, those could be "supplemental reports" or some such readable from a terminal on ESD, your ship, etc.
I don't agree with everything you said, but I do agree with your main point: story should be told IN the game. People shouldn't have to go outside the game to feel like they are getting the full storyline.
Which is ironic, given Cryptic moved the Path to 2409 from the Homepage and into STO as History Chips, because people didn't know it was there.
And honestly, I never bothered reading those stupid blogs because I didn't find them interesting. It's just laziness on Cryptic's part in not having to create the content in-game.
The issue is that these moments are near impossible to show ingame outside of pure text or long rambling cutscenes as these don't involve the player character at all, and with a good reason.
The player has been promoted mainly due to their prowess in battle, the alliance views us as a tool, someone who turns up, is told what the plan is, and has been known to pull nearly impossible feats to complete said plan, but we are not the people who make these plans, and whilst some players may argue against the plan, others would willingly follow it making it impossible for these moments to be about the players, so they pick other characters and give their views on the progression of the war.
Should these things be in game, perhaps at a console or inventory clickie as "Secret tales of the war" or something, I'm not going to say no, what I will say is that despite the complaints, these blogs don't detract from the story but add to it.
They're incapable of showing conversations and events like... Sela escaping? Really?
So you've just forgotten stuff like the Nelen Exil cutscenes I take it.
This also encompasses the bigger problem that they failed to present the Iconian Faux War properly in-game, using blogs as a crutch. Some of the blogs would work fine as supplements as is *if* there was content in the actual game that gave the impression that there was a war on rather than an incidental skirmish.
The issue is that these moments are near impossible to show ingame outside of pure text or long rambling cutscenes as these don't involve the player character at all, and with a good reason.
The player has been promoted mainly due to their prowess in battle, the alliance views us as a tool, someone who turns up, is told what the plan is, and has been known to pull nearly impossible feats to complete said plan, but we are not the people who make these plans, and whilst some players may argue against the plan, others would willingly follow it making it impossible for these moments to be about the players, so they pick other characters and give their views on the progression of the war.
Should these things be in game, perhaps at a console or inventory clickie as "Secret tales of the war" or something, I'm not going to say no, what I will say is that despite the complaints, these blogs don't detract from the story but add to it.
They're incapable of showing conversations and events like... Sela escaping? Really?
So you've just forgotten stuff like the Nelen Exil cutscenes I take it.
This also encompasses the bigger problem that they failed to present the Iconian Faux War properly in-game, using blogs as a crutch. Some of the blogs would work fine as supplements as is *if* there was content in the actual game that gave the impression that there was a war on rather than an incidental skirmish.
It's simple.... how many stories do you want? Because doing cutscenes for these would take too much time for it to be practical.
The issue is that these moments are near impossible to show ingame outside of pure text or long rambling cutscenes as these don't involve the player character at all, and with a good reason.
The player has been promoted mainly due to their prowess in battle, the alliance views us as a tool, someone who turns up, is told what the plan is, and has been known to pull nearly impossible feats to complete said plan, but we are not the people who make these plans, and whilst some players may argue against the plan, others would willingly follow it making it impossible for these moments to be about the players, so they pick other characters and give their views on the progression of the war.
Should these things be in game, perhaps at a console or inventory clickie as "Secret tales of the war" or something, I'm not going to say no, what I will say is that despite the complaints, these blogs don't detract from the story but add to it.
They're incapable of showing conversations and events like... Sela escaping? Really?
So you've just forgotten stuff like the Nelen Exil cutscenes I take it.
This also encompasses the bigger problem that they failed to present the Iconian Faux War properly in-game, using blogs as a crutch. Some of the blogs would work fine as supplements as is *if* there was content in the actual game that gave the impression that there was a war on rather than an incidental skirmish.
It's simple.... how many stories do you want? Because doing cutscenes for these would take too much time for it to be practical.
Enough stories for me to believe that the events they claim are happening are actually happening.
It seems that being forced to prematurely end the abortion of a storyline that was the Iconian War That Never Was hasn't been enough to convince you that putting game storyline in a blog simply doesn't work.
The fate of Sela after the war - love her or hate her - is something that should be expressed in-game.
You can't even claim poverty for this one (while making money hand over fist from "promotions" and lockboxes), a cutscene would suffice. Even an in-game, in-character letter would.
This? This is just lazy, and insulting.
I had hoped that with the end of the Iconian I Can't Believe It's Not War, Cryptic would realise that Blog Wars do not work, never have worked and never will work. Unfortunately it seems you want to continue down this course of failure and I for one do not approve.
Wow. Thanks for thinking I agree with any of this. Which I do NOT. GFY doesn't mean Good For You. And with that, if you so dislike the whole of STO, YOU HAVE ONLY BUT TO QUIT!!!
The door is that way...first star to the right and straight on 'til morning.
...I have to say, the fact that they're still doing these after the 'Dev. blog war' is supposed to be over rubs me the wrong way and sends a bad vibe to me; are we to expect that future seasons will also be as shallow and dry as the 'Dev. blog war' and supplemented by a filler of these blogs...
If the STO: Tales of "Current Topic" get you to quit either posting on the forum or completely quitting then by all means please do.
Just like the other person, the door is that-ah-ways.
If the STO: Tales of "Current Topic" get you to quit either posting on the forum or completely quitting then by all means please do.
Just like the other person, the door is that-ah-ways.
My reply in this thread has been civil and relevant to the discussion, unlike the two replies you made which have btw been reported for flaming.
If you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion besides pointless flaming, may I suggest shutting up then? Oh, and you don't get to say who leaves and who stays, bud.
The Blogs, while interesting in there own right, were a medium they used to carry the story along. And these Blogs will become hard to find after the current content story line moves beyond this point in the story. Which is my problem with that. Without the blogs, the STO in game story is missing the necessary details that attempted to bring the urgency and desperation that the Allies were facing against the Iconians. This feeling was not conveyed effectively enough in the main content. And when new players run through this content they will be missing these important aspects of the story. What should be done is like previous efforts on Nelen Exil and the Sela's reports from the rep, create cut scenes, reports in the mail, and PADD items that convey this information in the game, tied appropriately to the content so that the true story and it's impact is maintained and conveyed to the new players.
Side stories like where 7 of 9 went, or other such things can be kept to the official website if they create a specific forum location that holds this for people to look at when they feel the need. In this way, the story is kept in the game, and ancillary information can be kept in a reasonable and understandable location for the player base to access.
The Iconian War's story presentation was not effective in methods used, and as a long term portion of this game, will be muddled and lost to new players in their first run through. my suggestions above would solve these issues without be overly intrusive. And they have the opportunity to really embellish these things in the future if they want to easily enough.
Holy flaming Batman! It's ok not to like something, but maybe being constructive might have been a better choice rather than flaming in the OP as well as other users who presented constructive replies. /closed
Comments
Alright, you're happy with poor quality and bad game design.
Good for you. I'm sure you won't mind if the rest of us continue to ask for Cryptic to actually work for a living.
Like JJ-Trek?
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
My character Tsin'xing
SWTOR tells some minor parts of its stories by having you receive emails from NPCs in the game. Small status updates, thanks for helping them, etc.
To me that's more immersive than reading the same text would be outside of the game.
Dissenting opinions are fine. Blatantly wrong assertions like yours however I take issue with.
Calling something wrong without explaining how or why is pointless.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Except for the part where I've explained why repeatedly?
And do I really have to explain why the media that's the primary outlet for a given story should contain the bulk of that story? Do you think it's acceptable for example to watch a movie then be told to read a leaflet containing the bulk of it's plot while all you actually see is shooty shooty pew pew? (Yes I know some movies have actually done this, and they were TRIBBLE because of it).
This isn't even going into the fact that this person admitted they skip the "boring" cutscenes and thus don't really care that much about the story to begin with.
No, you misunderstand. In your previous post, you said 2 important things:
1) dissenting opinions are fine
2) lizwei's post was or contained "blatantly wrong assertions"
To support your second statement, you have to actually explain how lizei's points are "blatantly wrong". You can't simply offer your own dissenting opinion, which is all you have done so far. You have to actually offer some proof for how it is "blatantly wrong". Unless you actually think your own singular opinion is the authority on what is right or wrong.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Again, are you going to argue that the primary vector for a story shouldn't tell that story?
That is not a valid opinion, that is an objectively invalid statement. It's like saying that police officers should only stop a crime if they feel like it. You can have that opinion, but that opinion is wrong.
I'm really sick and tired of internet pundits using opinion as a get out of jail free card. There is such a thing as wrong opinions, and it is very basic to figure out why this one is so.
Your statement is entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with the problem here.
I already said that blogs as a story supplement are fine. Blogs as a replacement for the story are not.
In case this needs to be explained to you, supplements are background info, side stories, incidental minutia.
Supplements are not major storyline events, world setting events and changes in the status of major characters.
What the Iconian Fake War and these blogs did is the equivalent of TNG's Best of Both Worlds introducing the Borg cube incursion then immediately switching to the cube blowing up and telling you to read a blog if you want to find out what happened in between.
The player has been promoted mainly due to their prowess in battle, the alliance views us as a tool, someone who turns up, is told what the plan is, and has been known to pull nearly impossible feats to complete said plan, but we are not the people who make these plans, and whilst some players may argue against the plan, others would willingly follow it making it impossible for these moments to be about the players, so they pick other characters and give their views on the progression of the war.
Should these things be in game, perhaps at a console or inventory clickie as "Secret tales of the war" or something, I'm not going to say no, what I will say is that despite the complaints, these blogs don't detract from the story but add to it.
Putting in "tales of the war" that way would have given us more context in game.
For personal stories of the war, those could be "supplemental reports" or some such readable from a terminal on ESD, your ship, etc.
Which is ironic, given Cryptic moved the Path to 2409 from the Homepage and into STO as History Chips, because people didn't know it was there.
And honestly, I never bothered reading those stupid blogs because I didn't find them interesting. It's just laziness on Cryptic's part in not having to create the content in-game.
They're incapable of showing conversations and events like... Sela escaping? Really?
So you've just forgotten stuff like the Nelen Exil cutscenes I take it.
This also encompasses the bigger problem that they failed to present the Iconian Faux War properly in-game, using blogs as a crutch. Some of the blogs would work fine as supplements as is *if* there was content in the actual game that gave the impression that there was a war on rather than an incidental skirmish.
My character Tsin'xing
Enough stories for me to believe that the events they claim are happening are actually happening.
Wow. Thanks for thinking I agree with any of this. Which I do NOT. GFY doesn't mean Good For You. And with that, if you so dislike the whole of STO, YOU HAVE ONLY BUT TO QUIT!!!
The door is that way...first star to the right and straight on 'til morning.
┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻
If the STO: Tales of "Current Topic" get you to quit either posting on the forum or completely quitting then by all means please do.
Just like the other person, the door is that-ah-ways.
My reply in this thread has been civil and relevant to the discussion, unlike the two replies you made which have btw been reported for flaming.
If you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion besides pointless flaming, may I suggest shutting up then? Oh, and you don't get to say who leaves and who stays, bud.
Side stories like where 7 of 9 went, or other such things can be kept to the official website if they create a specific forum location that holds this for people to look at when they feel the need. In this way, the story is kept in the game, and ancillary information can be kept in a reasonable and understandable location for the player base to access.
The Iconian War's story presentation was not effective in methods used, and as a long term portion of this game, will be muddled and lost to new players in their first run through. my suggestions above would solve these issues without be overly intrusive. And they have the opportunity to really embellish these things in the future if they want to easily enough.
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