OK I think you have a great knack for taking people's statements out of context, and twisting their words around, as also demonstrated in another thread.
But one simple request, if you're gonna quote someone, make sure you quote the right person - at least you can afford that courtesy right?
Oh and I got to hand it to you. "advising against torpedoes" is a beautiful way to describe: DPS Shaming, spreading misinformation, ignorance and outright elitism.
I corrected the miss-quote. Sorry, vanilla forums not missing curtsey. As far as the rest is concerned I really don’t think so. I actually think I see pretty straight on the matter. And yes, in the other thread where I granted you the curtsey to be silent over another broken mechanic it was the same. You use the moth old hate you have towards the peeps which made the video to justify the devaluation of accomplishments they make. Broken or changing game mechanics you use yourself do not stop you from pointing fingers. From my perspective, the way you act in here, you appear to be a victim of the whole DPS chase. Glad I’m not and quiet frankly the admins of the DPS Metal channels don’t appear to be either, far from it. Then again, my experience with them seems to be quiet different than yours.
As for now I see it best to grand the request of my previous poster and give this thread a rest. You would use any comments of mine to spread your hate towards them further which is not my intention.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
OK I think you have a great knack for taking people's statements out of context, and twisting their words around, as also demonstrated in another thread.
But one simple request, if you're gonna quote someone, make sure you quote the right person - at least you can afford that courtesy right?
Oh and I got to hand it to you. "advising against torpedoes" is a beautiful way to describe: DPS Shaming, spreading misinformation, ignorance and outright elitism.
I corrected the miss-quote. Sorry, vanilla forums not missing curtsey. As far as the rest is concerned I really don’t think so. I actually think I see pretty straight on the matter. And yes, in the other thread where I granted you the curtsey to be silent over another broken mechanic it was the same. You use the moth old hate you have towards the peeps which made the video to justify the devaluation of accomplishments they make. Broken or changing game mechanics you use yourself do not stop you from pointing fingers. From my perspective, the way you act in here, you appear to be a victim of the whole DPS chase. Glad I’m not and quiet frankly the admins of the DPS Metal channels don’t appear to be either, far from it. Then again, my experience with them seems to be quiet different than yours.
As for now I see it best to grand the request of my previous poster and give this thread a rest. You would use any comments of mine to spread your hate towards them further which is not my intention.
Good to hear that you're willing to give it a rest, because as much as you claim to be a neutral bystander on everything, everything you spout betrays your claim - filled with insinuations, allusions and rhetoric that twists every word we say.
And one other very important thing - don't confuse disdain with hate.
Its always easy to point fingers and much harder to actually produce facts to corroborate your claims alfie.
In this case though its actually quite easy. The link to the parse should be included in the video describtion for everyone to check for themselfs.
If you compare my dps to the one from @maclaughlin (~) you can see he used kemo+torp while I used beams+no kemo and i actually did more dps overall.
So yeah it may or may not be broken but its not broken enough to actually change anything. Ap-dbbs faw still rules.
Its doesnt make any sense btw to accuse us of hating the broken torps and now using them at the same time so which one is it? We always said we go for whats most effective - so in contrast to odenknights torp-dreams we never went religious about it.
If half dhc half torps plus mines in the back were for some reason the most effective thing to do we propably would do exactly that.
So pls go ahead and acuse us of borgish behaviour all you like.. To me it feels like a nice heart warming compliment every single time.
Its always easy to point fingers and much harder to actually produce facts to corroborate your claims alfie.
In this case though its actually quite easy. The link to the parse should be included in the video describtion for everyone to check for themselfs.
If you compare my dps to the one from @maclaughlin (~) you can see he used kemo+torp while I used beams+no kemo and i actually did more dps overall.
So yeah it may or may not be broken but its not broken enough to actually change anything. Ap-dbbs faw still rules.
Its doesnt make any sense btw to accuse us of hating the broken torps and now using them at the same time so which one is it? We always said we go for whats most effective - so in contrast to odenknights torp-dreams we never went religious about it.
If half dhc half torps plus mines in the back were for some reason the most effective thing to do we propably would do exactly that.
So pls go ahead and acuse us of borgish behaviour all you like.. To me it feels like a nice heart warming compliment every single time.
lol nice try, you take us for fools who don't understand game mechanics and why kemo was used on T2 ships?
Yeah I saw the parse and the debuff ratings as well. I guess I should congratulate you guys on actually using teamplay to achieve a true team result for once - I am fair at least.
Just because your beam boat did higher DPS in this instance means nothing, point being if torps weren't considered generally superior for the job you wouldn't be using them right?
Separate from the kemo stuff, no one is saying you're wrong for using what's effective this season (torps), we just find it funny (and somewhat pitiful) how some of you mercilessly persecuted the "ineffective" in the past, only to be joining them soon after.
What about FAW then? Isn't it broken too? No, it's just a stupid AOE mechanic where you hit everything around you, without worrying too much about your position ... so much for piloting skills ... are you guys still using cannons in PvE? lol
I don't think so since the only STF when cannons were actually required, that is NWS, has been removed
People still use it. I am sure some wizard in whatever dps league can still hit 100k+ DPS with it or you can simply ask their parses. Remember, Optimal is different from viability. Dont need Beams if you are not aiming for #1 DPS in ISA. Different case though in different maps.
I dont know where your FAW no position nonsense is coming from when you are doing 100k+ DPS using FAW in ISA.
Since FAW doesnt need positioning as you stated nor piloting skills, Can you prove to me you can do 100k+ dps 10kms away from each mob in ISA in a pug with 4 random non dps players which you cannot click or use any buff and only spam space bar? I want with matching video and parse to see if you can hit 100k+ dps doing that.
I know that ... I was just being a little sarcastic ;-) although Escorts Online old-timers are still pissed off by this meta change and blame it on beams-lover Capt. Geko.
Anyway, they told me that , once, there was a bug involving pets spamming attack pattern beta, which made them spam multiple copies of it or something like that ... I don't know much about it and how long it's been like that, but it was broken and later it got fixed.
Still, I am sure that players didn't refrain from using them in their runs to farm better and who knows? Some old player might have recorded some ISE run on Youtube during that time since there were more players than now.
So, nothing new to see here : Devs TRIBBLE it up and players use it because it's in-game.
My main concern is the freackin' expensive price that many unaware players are paying to get this Kemo : I hope they'll enjoy it to the fullest until it'll get fixed.
What about FAW then? Isn't it broken too? No, it's just a stupid AOE mechanic where you hit everything around you, without worrying too much about your position ... so much for piloting skills ... are you guys still using cannons in PvE? lol
I don't think so since the only STF when cannons were actually required, that is NWS, has been removed
People still use it. I am sure some wizard in whatever dps league can still hit 100k+ DPS with it or you can simply ask their parses. Remember, Optimal is different from viability. Dont need Beams if you are not aiming for #1 DPS in ISA. Different case though in different maps.
I dont know where your FAW no position nonsense is coming from when you are doing 100k+ DPS using FAW in ISA.
Since FAW doesnt need positioning as you stated nor piloting skills, Can you prove to me you can do 100k+ dps 10kms away from each mob in ISA in a pug with 4 random non dps players which you cannot click or use any buff and only spam space bar? I want with matching video and parse to see if you can hit 100k+ dps doing that.
I know that ... I was just being a little sarcastic ;-) although Escorts Online old-timers are still pissed off by this meta change and blame it on beams-lover Capt. Geko.
Anyway, they told me that , once, there was a bug involving pets spamming attack pattern beta, which made them spam multiple copies of it or something like that ... I don't know much about it and how long it's been like that, but it was broken and later it got fixed.
Still, I am sure that players didn't refrain from using them in their runs to farm better and who knows? Some old player might have recorded some ISE run on Youtube during that time since there were more players than now.
So, nothing new to see here : Devs TRIBBLE it up and players use it because it's in-game.
My main concern is the freackin' expensive price that many unaware players are paying to get this Kemo : I hope they'll enjoy it to the fullest until it'll get fixed.
Yes, bugs happen all the time, broken Kemo is no different to the recent broken plasma doping that was widely used. It's also no different to the broken pet beta spamming that everyone used back in the day (myself included in this particular case).
But there comes a point where players, especially those in positions of leadership and responsibility, must be mature and consider the implications of what they are doing for their professed achievements and more importantly the impact it also has on the community they are part of as a whole.
For me personally, it was only when I cheesed myself up to the top with broken pet mechanics and a recluse, using everything and anything that people competing at the top of the DPS League were promoting at the time, that I had the opportunity to step back and reflect upon what I had really achieved and what it all really meant. And on reflection it wasn't pretty. People would see the record I had on the table and offer endless praise and undeserved respect, to the extent that my natural response became one of looking for the nearest hole to hide in whenever this occurred. All the nannied and "anything goes" cheesed out runs clogged the top of our boards. These were left there when mechanics were fixed, and despite disgruntled voices against the "dps padding" that was going on. In the end competition died in our community and many lost interest and quit the DPS race all together.
This is why I, and some others who also saw the problem, are so passionate about reforming the culture within our community and also firmly recognizing the accountability we have towards our members and their expectations. It is also why we are so frustrated when people with similar responsibilities ignore our concerns. Not only do they adamantly refuse to part with the shenanigans but also promote and perpetuate them to a greater extent than ever before.
Beneath all the name calling, claims about imaginary bruised egos, and false accusations of anti-teamplay and everything that went on, this is what the DPS Channel split was all about - a fundamental difference in our philosophy and what we are trying to achieve.
But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Think of Lance Armstrong winning 7 Tour de France's. Yes he is an incredible athlete, but he cheated his way to 7 yellow jerseys. No one can reproduce that feat unless they do blood doping too. So that is why he was stripped of his record.
Or you could think of VW and how they cheated the world with emission doping. They touted how great and clean their cars are, but now that everyone has found out just how corrupt and dirty their organization is. . . . well, let's see how that works out for VW violating their customer base's trust. Probably going to ruin the company. Same applies to us, we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard and never violate the trust of those turning to us--it's called integrity.
Anyway, once the kemo mechanic is fixed, all the "broken" runs will be deleted off the DPS League Table--to restore trust in the community. I am hopeful all other record tables will follow in suite.
> @porchsong said:
> Ohhh the shenanigans. . .
>
> But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Or to quote StrikeShip(14 days ago), the only user questioning the build: Yeah, Kemocite / Neutronic / Torp Spread is obviously broken. Personally I would refrain from promoting a build that is based on an exploit. That's nothing one should be proud of.
And it took you guys almost 2 weeks to go to the public and play the "metals are cheater game". What's the definition of hypocrat again?
This is why I, and some others who also saw the problem, are so passionate about reforming the culture within our community and also firmly recognizing the accountability we have towards our members and their expectations. It is also why we are so frustrated when people with similar responsibilities ignore our concerns. Not only do they adamantly refuse to part with the shenanigans but also promote and perpetuate them to a greater extent than ever before.
So you'll kick Spencer from the league? Or is your comment just bla bla?
And here is why in the end I give TRIBBLE about it:
- Its a f'ing game so you dont have to be so uptight about it all - I play for fun and doing new things even if they are broken is kind of the only fun I have left in this game - Most of the stuff Cryptic released is bugged or overpowered or lags the servers anyways - Usually it only takes a short while for cryptic to release new powercreep to replace what may have been lost by the fix (As seen by you guys doing a run with 42k plasma explosion dps a few days back)
As I recall you guys were promoting builds that were exploiting beta pet spam, if that was allowed this should be too, else, youre all hypocrites and should feel bad.
You're just boned cuz you cant accept the meta, and mostly, cannot beat it.
#Neverlucky
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
> @porchsong said:
> Ohhh the shenanigans. . .
>
> But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Or to quote StrikeShip(14 days ago), the only user questioning the build: Yeah, Kemocite / Neutronic / Torp Spread is obviously broken. Personally I would refrain from promoting a build that is based on an exploit. That's nothing one should be proud of.
And it took you guys almost 2 weeks to go to the public and play the "metals are cheater game". What's the definition of hypocrat again?
This is why I, and some others who also saw the problem, are so passionate about reforming the culture within our community and also firmly recognizing the accountability we have towards our members and their expectations. It is also why we are so frustrated when people with similar responsibilities ignore our concerns. Not only do they adamantly refuse to part with the shenanigans but also promote and perpetuate them to a greater extent than ever before.
So you'll kick Spencer from the league? Or is your comment just bla bla?
He won't be kicked, but Spencer's record like many others will be removed from the DPS League when it is fixed (The real question you should be asking though is whether the broken records will be removed from the Pokemon League when all this is over. Last time we almost had to go to war trying to get Felisean to let go of his 180K plasma-doped nanny run, thankfully that will never be a problem for us again). And yes, Spencer has been getting a TRIBBLE ton of flak from me about that silly fleet mogai build as well.
As censure for promoting that build, we used his shameful Aux2Batman antics to demonstrate how stupidly OP torp + spread + kemo currently is when we reported the bug. He also provided his manual labour for our PVP bug testing/parsing of Kemo procs, to help redeem himself somewhat.
And here is why in the end I give TRIBBLE about it:
- Its a f'ing game so you dont have to be so uptight about it all
- I play for fun and doing new things even if they are broken is kind of the only fun I have left in this game
- Most of the stuff Cryptic released is bugged or overpowered or lags the servers anyways
- Usually it only takes a short while for cryptic to release new powercreep to replace what may have been lost by the fix (As seen by you guys doing a run with 42k plasma explosion dps a few days back)
It seems you guys are still missing the point. How a result is achieved in just as important, if not more important than, the result itself.
Just because powercreep will enable the same DPS months later does not justify a record using mechanics that no longer exist. Just because gear will eventually be released on holodeck and lag should not exist, does not justify posting records from lag-free tribble runs using gear no one else has access to on holodeck.
It's about fairplay and respect for the other people you are competing with. It's not about what's the biggest number that has ever been pumped out, regardless of how it was done.
Doing something for "fun" does not justify anything at all - I'm sure you guys had a lot of "fun" kicking all our members out of their channel.
It's about fairplay and respect for the other people you are competing with.[/b] It's not about what's the biggest number that has ever been pumped out, regardless of how it was done.
Doing something for "fun" does not justify anything at all - I'm sure you guys had a lot of "fun" kicking all our members out of their channel.
I read that as "Why should we be looked to for advice (or respect), when most of our efforts come from exploits only we know about, not actual skill and knowledge we can help pass along to anyone."
Thats actually awesome alfie because now I see like this solution for all this stuff you like to flame about:
You guys can have the league of integrity and loads of rules and nice and neat and ordered and free of recluses and stuff.
We take the ones looking for fun and just relaxed doing whatever they want and just enjoy their happy online life in this game.
I would be completely happy with that deal tbh.
Also any kind of leaderboard reset is unfair to those who didnt use whatever made you wanna reset it in the first place but still have their record wiped so its not like this clean cut tool that doesnt have and downsides at all.
Also any kind of leaderboard reset is unfair to those who didnt use whatever made you wanna reset it in the first place but still have their record wiped so its not like this clean cut tool that doesnt have and downsides at all.
Actually given the advanced features of SCM we don't have to do a leaderboard reset to clean up all the logs with broken mechanics, we can just remove the records of those effected. This is something we planned ahead for.
Also your "free of recluses" comment is the same tired BS your side has been spouting since day 1, recluses have never been banned on our board, nor will they be. For someone who came on our TS and claimed he was disgusted by the actions of the metals admins you sure seem to like defending them and spouting there propaganda.
Thats actually awesome alfie because now I see like this solution for all this stuff you like to flame about:
You guys can have the league of integrity and loads of rules and nice and neat and ordered and free of recluses and stuff.
We take the ones looking for fun and just relaxed doing whatever they want and just enjoy their happy online life in this game.
I would be completely happy with that deal tbh.
Also any kind of leaderboard reset is unfair to those who didnt use whatever made you wanna reset it in the first place but still have their record wiped so its not like this clean cut tool that doesnt have and downsides at all.
Sorry Sano, you're forgetting one very important thing - that SCM's League table is far more advanced than CLR's, we simply have to auto scan the uploaded records (for which we have full logs on file) and pick out the offending ones, and only those where kemo was material to their record.
And no one said anything about banning recluses, the proposed solution we have in place to mitigate the effects of nanny runs on channel invites has no impact on what people can post on our board or their chosen play style, nor will they be artificially moved to another table - thanks again to SCM's capabilities.
And not removing the offending records on a board is actually more unfair to the people "who didnt use whatever". How you think otherwise is beyond my understanding.
Yeah John I still hate what they did it was stupid and unnecessary and they shouldnt have done it.
But that doesnt give you the right to come in here month and month later citing the same old TRIBBLE and for what? Raining on or parade when all we did was make a fun video for everyone to enjoy watching and there ks no fuckkng chest hackxxxor or whatever TRIBBLE going on with that run that is of any real effect in the achievemeng and fun part of it all. So why dont you take your guys and go back to your side of the sand box and let us play in ours with constantly trying to force us into some flame war thing noone really could want excepg maybe the crazyness that is alfie.
So get the f'ing hell out of our thread let us all have some peace and quiet and if you still really feel the need to throw TRIBBLE at us make a new thread for that like everybody else. There nothing anyone from any side say that changes anyones way of thinking ln this so maybe its better to just leave it and by that i mean each other alone.
My biggest issue Sano is your guys (like @holofrog) have a pattern of taking things from others and trying to pass it off as thier own ideas. Like the title of this thread for example.
All you have you do is look at my posting history to know what i'm talking about. I don't even know who @holofrog thinks he is; he was never part of the Original Wizards of STO. I'll make it easy for you, here is the first ever Wizards of STO thread.
You want to be left alone? stop stealing our TRIBBLE and trying to pass it off as your own.
Yeah John I still hate what they did it was stupid and unnecessary and they shouldnt have done it.
But that doesnt give you the right to come in here month and month later citing the same old TRIBBLE and for what? Raining on or parade when all we did was make a fun video for everyone to enjoy watching and there ks no fuckkng chest hackxxxor or whatever TRIBBLE going on with that run that is of any real effect in the achievemeng and fun part of it all. So why dont you take your guys and go back to your side of the sand box and let us play in ours with constantly trying to force us into some flame war thing noone really could want excepg maybe the crazyness that is alfie.
So get the f'ing hell out of our thread let us all have some peace and quiet and if you still really feel the need to throw TRIBBLE at us make a new thread for that like everybody else. There nothing anyone from any side say that changes anyones way of thinking ln this so maybe its better to just leave it and by that i mean each other alone.
All I did was correct your inaccurate statements and metal's propaganda, all Alfie did was point out the broken mechanics used in your run. You guys got all defensive, and now getting so upset....
> @porchsong said:
> Ohhh the shenanigans. . .
>
> But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Or to quote StrikeShip(14 days ago), the only user questioning the build: Yeah, Kemocite / Neutronic / Torp Spread is obviously broken. Personally I would refrain from promoting a build that is based on an exploit. That's nothing one should be proud of.
And it took you guys almost 2 weeks to go to the public and play the "metals are cheater game". What's the definition of hypocrat again?
> @porchsong said:
> Ohhh the shenanigans. . .
>
> But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Or to quote StrikeShip(14 days ago), the only user questioning the build: Yeah, Kemocite / Neutronic / Torp Spread is obviously broken. Personally I would refrain from promoting a build that is based on an exploit. That's nothing one should be proud of.
And it took you guys almost 2 weeks to go to the public and play the "metals are cheater game". What's the definition of hypocrat again?
QFT
The full extent of the Kemocite issue was not understood at the time that the build post and questioning comment was made. FYI, it also happens under FaW, and at almost the same rate as a torp spread if you have more than two iterations of KLW.
The more you know....
Edit: I'm not mad that Felisean got a higher run than myself. He and his team dedicated time to put towards getting the perfect run for him, and if that's what they want to do, I'm not going to judge them. I've even congratulated them in the past on a Hive accomplishment, telling critics that it takes a good measure of teamwork to go through an instance like that and do well as a team.
My problem is the same as @sarcasmdetector ; they took the time and work I invested in working on understanding the mechanics of torpedoes, used it on their 'variety shows', and when asked about it by their 'fans', they passed it off as if they knew this all along. During that same time period (and beforehand), they held a HUGE disdain for anyone who would speak about the use of torpedoes, let alone use them. One entity in particular was not happy at all that I was invited to become a member of the Wizards of STO. Go figure that he'd use the very same thing he advocated would be a DPS loss. I'm glad that he can now be a better pilot for slotting one and knowing when to fire it.
FYI, Kemocite procs not withstanding. one of the secrets to using Neutronic effectively was to slot it in a build with high FlowCaps, as most high-end builds will have. Welcome to something that was known over 10 months ago. Glad you're now a member of the Kinetic Kommunity! Your complimentary upgrade kits, along with your membership card, are in the mail .
More pls *popcorn*... joke
Do you know what is the problem? Everyone, at "high levels", want to show something to the others, and sometimes this leads to "war" and misunderstanding when the method is kinda obsessive. But the line between honesty and hypocrisy is very thin, and a lot of people involved in this thread between "dpsers", sorry guys, are in the second side, even me ( i farmed a lot with the beta spam exploit ). What we should do then? At least set our record and personal bests without using that broken stuff we use for fun outside of "official" runs or video demonstrations, as i always did, to ensure our integrity and intellectual honesty as right persons. That's my 2 cents.
in b4 <<but you said nice job guys in the comments on yt>> *nerd voice* yes, because it's fun to watch aside the "ethical" implications lol, at the end it's just a game...
More pls *popcorn*... joke
Do you know what is the problem? Everyone, at "high levels", want to show something to the others, and sometimes this leads to "war" and misunderstanding when the method is kinda obsessive. But the line between honesty and hypocrisy is very thin, and a lot of people involved in this thread between "dpsers", sorry guys, are in the second side, even me ( i farmed a lot with the beta spam exploit ). What we should do then? At least set our record and personal bests without using that broken stuff we use for fun outside of "official" runs or video demonstrations, as i always did, to ensure our integrity and intellectual honesty as right persons. That's my 2 cents.
in b4 <<but you said nice job guys in the comments on yt>> *nerd voice* yes, because it's fun to watch aside the "ethical" implications lol, at the end it's just a game...
Comments
I corrected the miss-quote. Sorry, vanilla forums not missing curtsey. As far as the rest is concerned I really don’t think so. I actually think I see pretty straight on the matter. And yes, in the other thread where I granted you the curtsey to be silent over another broken mechanic it was the same. You use the moth old hate you have towards the peeps which made the video to justify the devaluation of accomplishments they make. Broken or changing game mechanics you use yourself do not stop you from pointing fingers. From my perspective, the way you act in here, you appear to be a victim of the whole DPS chase. Glad I’m not and quiet frankly the admins of the DPS Metal channels don’t appear to be either, far from it. Then again, my experience with them seems to be quiet different than yours.
As for now I see it best to grand the request of my previous poster and give this thread a rest. You would use any comments of mine to spread your hate towards them further which is not my intention.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Good to hear that you're willing to give it a rest, because as much as you claim to be a neutral bystander on everything, everything you spout betrays your claim - filled with insinuations, allusions and rhetoric that twists every word we say.
And one other very important thing - don't confuse disdain with hate.
In this case though its actually quite easy. The link to the parse should be included in the video describtion for everyone to check for themselfs.
If you compare my dps to the one from @maclaughlin (~) you can see he used kemo+torp while I used beams+no kemo and i actually did more dps overall.
So yeah it may or may not be broken but its not broken enough to actually change anything. Ap-dbbs faw still rules.
Its doesnt make any sense btw to accuse us of hating the broken torps and now using them at the same time so which one is it? We always said we go for whats most effective - so in contrast to odenknights torp-dreams we never went religious about it.
If half dhc half torps plus mines in the back were for some reason the most effective thing to do we propably would do exactly that.
So pls go ahead and acuse us of borgish behaviour all you like.. To me it feels like a nice heart warming compliment every single time.
lol nice try, you take us for fools who don't understand game mechanics and why kemo was used on T2 ships?
Yeah I saw the parse and the debuff ratings as well. I guess I should congratulate you guys on actually using teamplay to achieve a true team result for once - I am fair at least.
Just because your beam boat did higher DPS in this instance means nothing, point being if torps weren't considered generally superior for the job you wouldn't be using them right?
Separate from the kemo stuff, no one is saying you're wrong for using what's effective this season (torps), we just find it funny (and somewhat pitiful) how some of you mercilessly persecuted the "ineffective" in the past, only to be joining them soon after.
How is this any different than plasma doping?
How is this any different than EPS popularity?
The only difference here is the hypocrisy as far as I can see.
Anyway, they told me that , once, there was a bug involving pets spamming attack pattern beta, which made them spam multiple copies of it or something like that ... I don't know much about it and how long it's been like that, but it was broken and later it got fixed.
Still, I am sure that players didn't refrain from using them in their runs to farm better and who knows? Some old player might have recorded some ISE run on Youtube during that time since there were more players than now.
So, nothing new to see here : Devs TRIBBLE it up and players use it because it's in-game.
My main concern is the freackin' expensive price that many unaware players are paying to get this Kemo : I hope they'll enjoy it to the fullest until it'll get fixed.
Yes, bugs happen all the time, broken Kemo is no different to the recent broken plasma doping that was widely used. It's also no different to the broken pet beta spamming that everyone used back in the day (myself included in this particular case).
But there comes a point where players, especially those in positions of leadership and responsibility, must be mature and consider the implications of what they are doing for their professed achievements and more importantly the impact it also has on the community they are part of as a whole.
For me personally, it was only when I cheesed myself up to the top with broken pet mechanics and a recluse, using everything and anything that people competing at the top of the DPS League were promoting at the time, that I had the opportunity to step back and reflect upon what I had really achieved and what it all really meant. And on reflection it wasn't pretty. People would see the record I had on the table and offer endless praise and undeserved respect, to the extent that my natural response became one of looking for the nearest hole to hide in whenever this occurred. All the nannied and "anything goes" cheesed out runs clogged the top of our boards. These were left there when mechanics were fixed, and despite disgruntled voices against the "dps padding" that was going on. In the end competition died in our community and many lost interest and quit the DPS race all together.
This is why I, and some others who also saw the problem, are so passionate about reforming the culture within our community and also firmly recognizing the accountability we have towards our members and their expectations. It is also why we are so frustrated when people with similar responsibilities ignore our concerns. Not only do they adamantly refuse to part with the shenanigans but also promote and perpetuate them to a greater extent than ever before.
Beneath all the name calling, claims about imaginary bruised egos, and false accusations of anti-teamplay and everything that went on, this is what the DPS Channel split was all about - a fundamental difference in our philosophy and what we are trying to achieve.
But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Think of Lance Armstrong winning 7 Tour de France's. Yes he is an incredible athlete, but he cheated his way to 7 yellow jerseys. No one can reproduce that feat unless they do blood doping too. So that is why he was stripped of his record.
Or you could think of VW and how they cheated the world with emission doping. They touted how great and clean their cars are, but now that everyone has found out just how corrupt and dirty their organization is. . . . well, let's see how that works out for VW violating their customer base's trust. Probably going to ruin the company. Same applies to us, we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard and never violate the trust of those turning to us--it's called integrity.
Anyway, once the kemo mechanic is fixed, all the "broken" runs will be deleted off the DPS League Table--to restore trust in the community. I am hopeful all other record tables will follow in suite.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
> Ohhh the shenanigans. . .
>
> But yes, scores should be accomplished by legitimate means, not cheese. We have a knack of finding broken mechanics quickly and reporting them to the devs. I am not saying they are not fun to play with, but to promote them and keep them on your league table after they are fixed is cheap and dishonest. For the mass of players who are learning the game, it looks poorly on us at the top who are regarded as leaders (and who players turn towards for information) to maintain record scores when no one can match the conditions of that record as the broken mechanics were fixed or the damage reduced, etc.
Yes. It's cheap and dishonest.
Check this on reddit...
reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/3k7gh2/rrw_power_tsunami_a2b_energytorp_hybrid_140k_dps/
Or to quote StrikeShip(14 days ago), the only user questioning the build:
Yeah, Kemocite / Neutronic / Torp Spread is obviously broken. Personally I would refrain from promoting a build that is based on an exploit. That's nothing one should be proud of.
And it took you guys almost 2 weeks to go to the public and play the "metals are cheater game". What's the definition of hypocrat again?
So you'll kick Spencer from the league? Or is your comment just bla bla?
are you right on a principle lvl? Yes.
And here is why in the end I give TRIBBLE about it:
- Its a f'ing game so you dont have to be so uptight about it all
- I play for fun and doing new things even if they are broken is kind of the only fun I have left in this game
- Most of the stuff Cryptic released is bugged or overpowered or lags the servers anyways
- Usually it only takes a short while for cryptic to release new powercreep to replace what may have been lost by the fix (As seen by you guys doing a run with 42k plasma explosion dps a few days back)
You're just boned cuz you cant accept the meta, and mostly, cannot beat it.
#Neverlucky
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
He won't be kicked, but Spencer's record like many others will be removed from the DPS League when it is fixed (The real question you should be asking though is whether the broken records will be removed from the Pokemon League when all this is over. Last time we almost had to go to war trying to get Felisean to let go of his 180K plasma-doped nanny run, thankfully that will never be a problem for us again). And yes, Spencer has been getting a TRIBBLE ton of flak from me about that silly fleet mogai build as well.
As censure for promoting that build, we used his shameful Aux2Batman antics to demonstrate how stupidly OP torp + spread + kemo currently is when we reported the bug. He also provided his manual labour for our PVP bug testing/parsing of Kemo procs, to help redeem himself somewhat.
It seems you guys are still missing the point. How a result is achieved in just as important, if not more important than, the result itself.
Just because powercreep will enable the same DPS months later does not justify a record using mechanics that no longer exist. Just because gear will eventually be released on holodeck and lag should not exist, does not justify posting records from lag-free tribble runs using gear no one else has access to on holodeck.
It's about fairplay and respect for the other people you are competing with. It's not about what's the biggest number that has ever been pumped out, regardless of how it was done.
Doing something for "fun" does not justify anything at all - I'm sure you guys had a lot of "fun" kicking all our members out of their channel.
I read that as "Why should we be looked to for advice (or respect), when most of our efforts come from exploits only we know about, not actual skill and knowledge we can help pass along to anyone."
Probably just me.
You guys can have the league of integrity and loads of rules and nice and neat and ordered and free of recluses and stuff.
We take the ones looking for fun and just relaxed doing whatever they want and just enjoy their happy online life in this game.
I would be completely happy with that deal tbh.
Also any kind of leaderboard reset is unfair to those who didnt use whatever made you wanna reset it in the first place but still have their record wiped so its not like this clean cut tool that doesnt have and downsides at all.
Actually given the advanced features of SCM we don't have to do a leaderboard reset to clean up all the logs with broken mechanics, we can just remove the records of those effected. This is something we planned ahead for.
Also your "free of recluses" comment is the same tired BS your side has been spouting since day 1, recluses have never been banned on our board, nor will they be. For someone who came on our TS and claimed he was disgusted by the actions of the metals admins you sure seem to like defending them and spouting there propaganda.
Sorry Sano, you're forgetting one very important thing - that SCM's League table is far more advanced than CLR's, we simply have to auto scan the uploaded records (for which we have full logs on file) and pick out the offending ones, and only those where kemo was material to their record.
And no one said anything about banning recluses, the proposed solution we have in place to mitigate the effects of nanny runs on channel invites has no impact on what people can post on our board or their chosen play style, nor will they be artificially moved to another table - thanks again to SCM's capabilities.
And not removing the offending records on a board is actually more unfair to the people "who didnt use whatever". How you think otherwise is beyond my understanding.
But that doesnt give you the right to come in here month and month later citing the same old TRIBBLE and for what? Raining on or parade when all we did was make a fun video for everyone to enjoy watching and there ks no fuckkng chest hackxxxor or whatever TRIBBLE going on with that run that is of any real effect in the achievemeng and fun part of it all. So why dont you take your guys and go back to your side of the sand box and let us play in ours with constantly trying to force us into some flame war thing noone really could want excepg maybe the crazyness that is alfie.
So get the f'ing hell out of our thread let us all have some peace and quiet and if you still really feel the need to throw TRIBBLE at us make a new thread for that like everybody else. There nothing anyone from any side say that changes anyones way of thinking ln this so maybe its better to just leave it and by that i mean each other alone.
All you have you do is look at my posting history to know what i'm talking about. I don't even know who @holofrog thinks he is; he was never part of the Original Wizards of STO. I'll make it easy for you, here is the first ever Wizards of STO thread.
You want to be left alone? stop stealing our TRIBBLE and trying to pass it off as your own.
All I did was correct your inaccurate statements and metal's propaganda, all Alfie did was point out the broken mechanics used in your run. You guys got all defensive, and now getting so upset....
QFT
The full extent of the Kemocite issue was not understood at the time that the build post and questioning comment was made. FYI, it also happens under FaW, and at almost the same rate as a torp spread if you have more than two iterations of KLW.
The more you know....
Edit: I'm not mad that Felisean got a higher run than myself. He and his team dedicated time to put towards getting the perfect run for him, and if that's what they want to do, I'm not going to judge them. I've even congratulated them in the past on a Hive accomplishment, telling critics that it takes a good measure of teamwork to go through an instance like that and do well as a team.
My problem is the same as @sarcasmdetector ; they took the time and work I invested in working on understanding the mechanics of torpedoes, used it on their 'variety shows', and when asked about it by their 'fans', they passed it off as if they knew this all along. During that same time period (and beforehand), they held a HUGE disdain for anyone who would speak about the use of torpedoes, let alone use them. One entity in particular was not happy at all that I was invited to become a member of the Wizards of STO. Go figure that he'd use the very same thing he advocated would be a DPS loss. I'm glad that he can now be a better pilot for slotting one and knowing when to fire it.
FYI, Kemocite procs not withstanding. one of the secrets to using Neutronic effectively was to slot it in a build with high FlowCaps, as most high-end builds will have. Welcome to something that was known over 10 months ago. Glad you're now a member of the Kinetic Kommunity! Your complimentary upgrade kits, along with your membership card, are in the mail
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Do you know what is the problem? Everyone, at "high levels", want to show something to the others, and sometimes this leads to "war" and misunderstanding when the method is kinda obsessive. But the line between honesty and hypocrisy is very thin, and a lot of people involved in this thread between "dpsers", sorry guys, are in the second side, even me ( i farmed a lot with the beta spam exploit ). What we should do then? At least set our record and personal bests without using that broken stuff we use for fun outside of "official" runs or video demonstrations, as i always did, to ensure our integrity and intellectual honesty as right persons. That's my 2 cents.
in b4 <<but you said nice job guys in the comments on yt>> *nerd voice* yes, because it's fun to watch aside the "ethical" implications lol, at the end it's just a game...
I can 100% agree with this. No problems here.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.