I also hated Nog's arc. Mainly because he doesn't have one. He's still the same goblin he always was, only they put him in a Starfleet uniform and pretended he projected authority.
This from the same writers who brought you entire Star Trek episodes centred around abysmally bad Frank Sinatra impersonators.
Nope. He has an arc, weather you liked it or thought it was affective is up to you, denying its presence is moronic unless you skipped a whole bunch of episodes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think part of it is the Shinzon/young Picard effect. They made them bald to make sure the stupid audience could identify them as who they are supposed to be. Of course we aren't that stupid that we would have trouble with Picard having hair when he was younger, because we know for a fact he did, as he was clearly balding, not shaved by choice.
Seven while she is boring and utilitarian, was trying to grow, and I find it hard to believe she wouldn't change outfits in all this time. However to be fair, there is the additional point of game assets here, and the fact that there really aren't a lot of other non-uniformesque options she could wear in game.
They still could have given her something else, rather than stick her in the same thing as always, but too many of the characters seem slapped into the story simply to do fan service.
There's more to Shinzon than that.
Patrick Stewart was bald at 20. He wore toupees for a few parts and, briefly, when he was a furniture salesman but he regrets that and has had varying levels of self-consciousness about it.
He hates that they had him wear hairpieces for flashbacks on TNG or when his son played young Picard. (His son is bald now too.)
He had more creative input on the movies as a producer. He specifically requested several things over the movies. One was more action and the Argo was, specifically, his request. One was that they pair Picard with younger women than Beverly and avoid developing that romance. (Patrick Stewart's real wife is 35. I think he just identifies as younger than what he is.) One was that Picard be depicted as bald at the Academy.
By the time Nemesis rolled around, getting the entire crew together took more negotiations. Part of that was money and Spiner and Stewart were both making in the millions well before that point. But a lot of it was more creative control and input. Stewart wanted to retcon out young Picard's hair because he felt it was better for Picard to have always been bald than to have lost it as some kind of sign of advanced age.
Racism is a loaded term, and implies unfair judgement on a people due to their allearance or lineage. I judge the behaviour of the Ferengi and nothing more. It's not that they look like goblins, it's that they *act* like them, and I simply don't believe that a role as prestigious as that of a Federation starship captain would be given to characters who are consistently written as inidivuals who'd sell the warp core for a bag full of gold at the first opportunity.
There is multiple different types of racism, one of which is judging an individual just by their race, I never said you were wrong about the Ferengi as a whole, I did however specify that you were wrong to judge Nog as though he was just any other Ferengi.
We hear nothing of Chakotay in STO (unless I missed it) I assume Seven is still married to him, as a scientist at the Daystom Institute and after 30 years from the events of Voyager to put her in the same skin tight cat suit as shown in the the episodes is really an insult to the player's intelligence. She should have been shown either in her formal work uniform if they have one or typical informal dress (dress as in costume not a frock) that she may chose to wear at work.
You missed it.
Chakotay became head of star fleet intelligence in 2406.
The first part is just weird, the second is acting like a d.ick.
Why, because I find Rom repulsive in every way?
Sorry, that's just how it is.
Nope. He has an arc, weather you liked it or thought it was affective is up to you, denying its presence is moronic unless you skipped a whole bunch of episodes.
I don't deny it's presence, I deny it's legitimacy. Simply saying a character has changed and putting them in a new role doesn't make it so.
Patrick Stewart was bald at 20. He wore toupees for a few parts and, briefly, when he was a furniture salesman but he regrets that and has had varying levels of self-consciousness about it.
He hates that they had him wear hairpieces for flashbacks on TNG or when his son played young Picard. (His son is bald now too.)
He had more creative input on the movies as a producer. He specifically requested several things over the movies. One was more action and the Argo was, specifically, his request. One was that they pair Picard with younger women than Beverly and avoid developing that romance. (Patrick Stewart's real wife is 35. I think he just identifies as younger than what he is.) One was that Picard be depicted as bald at the Academy.
By the time Nemesis rolled around, getting the entire crew together took more negotiations. Part of that was money and Spiner and Stewart were both making in the millions well before that point. But a lot of it was more creative control and input. Stewart wanted to retcon out young Picard's hair because he felt it was better for Picard to have always been bald than to have lost it as some kind of sign of advanced age.
If that's even remotely true then it's an object lesson on while input from actors should be considered, it should never be taken as gospel, and the weak writers and director of Nemesis really should have known better.
Jean-Luc Picard is not Patrick Stewart, unless Patrick Stewart also wishes to be stabbed through the heart, left in command of a burning starship and forcibly turned into a cyborg he had no business insisting Picard's history reflect his own.
Nevermind the fact that Shinzon was entirely 100% bald and neither Picard or Stewart are (at least, at the time of filming Nemesis).
Jean-Luc Picard is not Patrick Stewart, unless Patrick Stewart also wishes to be stabbed through the heart, left in command of a burning starship and forcibly turned into a cyborg he had no business insisting Picard's history reflect his own.
Nevermind the fact that Shinzon was entirely 100% bald and neither Picard or Stewart are (at least, at the time of filming Nemesis).
What is the problem with Shinzon being bald exactly. He worked in a mine, that's a incentive to shave of his hair (look at Nero and crew). Plus it could be a side effect of accelerated ageing or imperfections in the cloning.
Of all the things to hold against 'Nemesis' Shinzon's lack of hair is just petty.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Part of Rom's repulsiveness comes from him. He's a very unpleasant individual.
What is the problem with Shinzon being bald exactly. He worked in a mine, that's a incentive to shave of his hair (look at Nero and crew). Plus it could be a side effect of accelerated ageing or imperfections in the cloning.
Of all the things to hold against 'Nemesis' Shinzon's lack of hair is just petty.
What has mining got to do with anything?
You do know the same backstory that says Nero was a miner also gave him a full head of hair which he only shaved because of some weird grieving ritual?
In any case, Shinzon being bald isn't bad by itself, but it shows how the star actors of a given movie can have a negative infulence on it if the writers and directors are too weak willed or don't care enough to stand up to them.
Another example of this would be the silly driving shooty videogame like bit put in solely because Patrick Stewart enjoys off road driving.
Now we add racism to the already latent sexism in this thread. Magnificant.
Really. And I suppose it's also racist if I show my contempt for orcs, house elves and gungans too? Please.
It's especially ironic considering the Ferengi were concieved as racist stereotypes, and the vileness these goblins display simply isn't worthy of a starship captain.
Nice way to tar the entire race with the same brush there, Nog's entire character arc in DS9 was him trying to escape the very perceptions of Ferengi that you've just thrown at him, for him to find something worthwhile other than profit. Not to mention that thanks to GRAND NAGUS ROM the entire Ferengi society is undergoing a massive cultural shift away from profit as a whole.
Also racism (or speciesism in this case) is wrong whether it's Fantasic Racism or plain human racism, especially in a Star Trek game.
Oh please, don't remind me of Rom. Both the character and actor disgust me greatly.
I also hated Nog's arc. Mainly because he doesn't have one. He's still the same goblin he always was, only they put him in a Starfleet uniform and pretended he projected authority.
This from the same writers who brought you entire Star Trek episodes centred around abysmally bad Frank Sinatra impersonators.
Racism is a loaded term, and implies unfair judgement on a people due to their allearance or lineage. I judge the behaviour of the Ferengi and nothing more. It's not that they look like goblins, it's that they *act* like them, and I simply don't believe that a role as prestigious as that of a Federation starship captain would be given to characters who are consistently written as inidivuals who'd sell the warp core for a bag full of gold at the first opportunity.
First of all, that's absurd. Gold is worthless. Second, the individual characters of Nog or Rom were shown to be more competent and possessing of more character than you're giving them credit for. How the "actor disgusts you" seems like a prejudice problem unless you have a personal history there, in which case, maybe the forums aren't the best place for that.
"Unfair judgement on a people due to their allegiance or lineage" seems to imply that there's such a thing as FAIR judgement on those grounds and I don't think there is or can be. And then you jump straight to judging a group's behavior, which is exactly the point I think some of us take issue with. Judging a group's behavior certainly seems prejudicial.
Part of Rom's repulsiveness comes from him. He's a very unpleasant individual.
What is the problem with Shinzon being bald exactly. He worked in a mine, that's a incentive to shave of his hair (look at Nero and crew). Plus it could be a side effect of accelerated ageing or imperfections in the cloning.
Of all the things to hold against 'Nemesis' Shinzon's lack of hair is just petty.
What has mining got to do with anything?
You do know the same backstory that says Nero was a miner also gave him a full head of hair which he only shaved because of some weird grieving ritual?
In any case, Shinzon being bald isn't bad by itself, but it shows how the star actors of a given movie can have a negative infulence on it if the writers and directors are too weak willed or don't care enough to stand up to them.
Another example of this would be the silly driving shooty videogame like bit put in solely because Patrick Stewart enjoys off road driving.
Shinzon was also dying of rapid aging. Picard being bald at the academy was in a still photograph, which is what I thought you were referencing. And as producers, Stewart and Spiner were the ones hiring Baird. In this case, you're talking about keeping the people in charge of the franchise who selected and hired the writer in check.
And I happen to think as a publisher, an actor, and a director that you have to take into account what the artists you work with want to do and accommodate that.
In the case of Sir Patrick Stewart, he has had no difficulty playing characters vastly different from himself. Different time periods, social classes, political outlooks, sexual orientations. I think he's earned the right to draw from personal experience on a character that he had say over as an executive and that he had a lengthy commitment to shaping.
Had the actor not been allowed to prevail on a few points, they'd have stuck him in a wig and required him to play the role with a French accent when he was cast. I think the shows are richer and provided more memorable moments because the actors (who were, in the case of the films, also in executive roles) had input.
Nobody in a troupe is a robot and everyone has valuable input to mine. And in the case of Spiner and Stewart, they were so heavily invested in the production that they were the bosses by that point. And however much some may gripe over Nemesis, I'd take the worst Star Trek movie over none at all. That's generally the alternative, by the way. Even the weaker decisions made in terms of input were made to convince artists to sign up for a project that they were under no obligation to do.
I don't think a minute of the five series, animated series, or twelve films is so regrettable that we'd be better off without it. And I'll even throw Voyager's Threshold up to that standard, because I think it teaches us things about the IP's limits and what works, specific lessons we wouldn't have had without that episode getting produced.
What has mining got to do with anything?
You do know the same backstory that says Nero was a miner also gave him a full head of hair which he only shaved because of some weird grieving ritual?
In any case, Shinzon being bald isn't bad by itself, but it shows how the star actors of a given movie can have a negative infulence on it if the writers and directors are too weak willed or don't care enough to stand up to them.
Another example of this would be the silly driving shooty videogame like bit put in solely because Patrick Stewart enjoys off road driving.
Miners occasionally shave their heads, what did you think I was getting at? Neros flashbacks in the film show him with the tattoos and bald head already.
And honestly I'd rather Patrick Stewart got more of a say in the direction of the film than he did. He'd been playing the role since the very beginning. It's clear the director of Nemesis could't care less about the film.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
The first part is just weird, the second is acting like a d.ick.
Nope. He has an arc, weather you liked it or thought it was affective is up to you, denying its presence is moronic unless you skipped a whole bunch of episodes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There's more to Shinzon than that.
Patrick Stewart was bald at 20. He wore toupees for a few parts and, briefly, when he was a furniture salesman but he regrets that and has had varying levels of self-consciousness about it.
He hates that they had him wear hairpieces for flashbacks on TNG or when his son played young Picard. (His son is bald now too.)
He had more creative input on the movies as a producer. He specifically requested several things over the movies. One was more action and the Argo was, specifically, his request. One was that they pair Picard with younger women than Beverly and avoid developing that romance. (Patrick Stewart's real wife is 35. I think he just identifies as younger than what he is.) One was that Picard be depicted as bald at the Academy.
By the time Nemesis rolled around, getting the entire crew together took more negotiations. Part of that was money and Spiner and Stewart were both making in the millions well before that point. But a lot of it was more creative control and input. Stewart wanted to retcon out young Picard's hair because he felt it was better for Picard to have always been bald than to have lost it as some kind of sign of advanced age.
There is multiple different types of racism, one of which is judging an individual just by their race, I never said you were wrong about the Ferengi as a whole, I did however specify that you were wrong to judge Nog as though he was just any other Ferengi.
You missed it.
Chakotay became head of star fleet intelligence in 2406.
Why, because I find Rom repulsive in every way?
Sorry, that's just how it is.
I don't deny it's presence, I deny it's legitimacy. Simply saying a character has changed and putting them in a new role doesn't make it so.
If that's even remotely true then it's an object lesson on while input from actors should be considered, it should never be taken as gospel, and the weak writers and director of Nemesis really should have known better.
Jean-Luc Picard is not Patrick Stewart, unless Patrick Stewart also wishes to be stabbed through the heart, left in command of a burning starship and forcibly turned into a cyborg he had no business insisting Picard's history reflect his own.
Nevermind the fact that Shinzon was entirely 100% bald and neither Picard or Stewart are (at least, at the time of filming Nemesis).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Part of Rom's repulsiveness comes from him. He's a very unpleasant individual.
What has mining got to do with anything?
You do know the same backstory that says Nero was a miner also gave him a full head of hair which he only shaved because of some weird grieving ritual?
In any case, Shinzon being bald isn't bad by itself, but it shows how the star actors of a given movie can have a negative infulence on it if the writers and directors are too weak willed or don't care enough to stand up to them.
Another example of this would be the silly driving shooty videogame like bit put in solely because Patrick Stewart enjoys off road driving.
First of all, that's absurd. Gold is worthless. Second, the individual characters of Nog or Rom were shown to be more competent and possessing of more character than you're giving them credit for. How the "actor disgusts you" seems like a prejudice problem unless you have a personal history there, in which case, maybe the forums aren't the best place for that.
"Unfair judgement on a people due to their allegiance or lineage" seems to imply that there's such a thing as FAIR judgement on those grounds and I don't think there is or can be. And then you jump straight to judging a group's behavior, which is exactly the point I think some of us take issue with. Judging a group's behavior certainly seems prejudicial.
Shinzon was also dying of rapid aging. Picard being bald at the academy was in a still photograph, which is what I thought you were referencing. And as producers, Stewart and Spiner were the ones hiring Baird. In this case, you're talking about keeping the people in charge of the franchise who selected and hired the writer in check.
And I happen to think as a publisher, an actor, and a director that you have to take into account what the artists you work with want to do and accommodate that.
In the case of Sir Patrick Stewart, he has had no difficulty playing characters vastly different from himself. Different time periods, social classes, political outlooks, sexual orientations. I think he's earned the right to draw from personal experience on a character that he had say over as an executive and that he had a lengthy commitment to shaping.
Had the actor not been allowed to prevail on a few points, they'd have stuck him in a wig and required him to play the role with a French accent when he was cast. I think the shows are richer and provided more memorable moments because the actors (who were, in the case of the films, also in executive roles) had input.
Nobody in a troupe is a robot and everyone has valuable input to mine. And in the case of Spiner and Stewart, they were so heavily invested in the production that they were the bosses by that point. And however much some may gripe over Nemesis, I'd take the worst Star Trek movie over none at all. That's generally the alternative, by the way. Even the weaker decisions made in terms of input were made to convince artists to sign up for a project that they were under no obligation to do.
I don't think a minute of the five series, animated series, or twelve films is so regrettable that we'd be better off without it. And I'll even throw Voyager's Threshold up to that standard, because I think it teaches us things about the IP's limits and what works, specific lessons we wouldn't have had without that episode getting produced.
Miners occasionally shave their heads, what did you think I was getting at? Neros flashbacks in the film show him with the tattoos and bald head already.
And honestly I'd rather Patrick Stewart got more of a say in the direction of the film than he did. He'd been playing the role since the very beginning. It's clear the director of Nemesis could't care less about the film.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!