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Now I know what the new Excelsior should have looked like...
dark4blood
Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
This is what it should have looked like instead of changing the saucer so much.
http://unusualsuspex.deviantart.com/art/Conservative-Cruiser-267528322
http://unusualsuspex.deviantart.com/art/A-Lesson-in-Modesty-346007290
http://unusualsuspex.deviantart.com/art/Conservative-Cruiser-267528322
http://unusualsuspex.deviantart.com/art/A-Lesson-in-Modesty-346007290
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Not saying it's horrible but it's not exactly revolutionary either...least the way it is now people can fly it and not have to look like the Excelsior if they feel the Excelsior itself is to old...or go for old school Excelsior and Enterprise B/Lakota.
http://jetfreak-7.deviantart.com/art/USS-Archangel-157834130
by the same person.
Interesting design, seems a mesh of the Excelsior and the Sovereign. I would be interested to see that design from a few more angles.
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/3/2220/FOScreenShot_110618_121116.png
Another view of the original and the MK II next to each other:
http://www.fleetops.net/forum/download/file.php?id=13486
Sorry, but those guys make way better Starfleet vessels than Cryptic ever did. This is how IMO you stay true to the original while making it look more advanced.
"Let them eat static!"
This is why it's impossible.
There is nothing we could ever do that would please everyone. If we went with a different design, some of the people who are upset now, wouldn't be, and some of the people who aren't, would be. Catch-22.
This is entirely true... However... Just for the fun of it, try to have the model designers make the next 2-3 models less bulky...
Anyways, while I am rather surprised by this, you guys have gone to great lengths to actually allow people to go with their preferred designs over being forced to use your's so you have that going for you... which is nice.
The question is *not* whether this new ship design pleases everyone (which is obviously impossible), but whether it pleases the majority of people. I admit that I do not *personally* like this new design, but I don't claim to speak for any majority. The sales numbers will speak for themselves, and at the end of the day that is really all that matters.
My main point, however, is that it is *not* a "damned if you do, damned if you don't", or "Catch-22" type situation. It is a "damned if you don't...please the majority" situation. In business, it's ok and acceptable if *some* people don't like something, as long as the *majority* do.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes, that design for new Excelsior seems the best I've seen so far, and it's pretty good ship too. Very powerful and resilient. Too bad that STO ship designers haven't come up with something similar. Saucer and nacelles of Resolute seem just out of place. I only hope they won't do something similar with T6 Sovereign design.
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Isn't this where customized skins(choosing a list of 3 or 4 different body styles, saucer types etc.) come into play and help increase the numbers to please?
I really would have thought this would have been expanded more when new ships were released.
im curious who is happy with ... Scryer . I am a architect , i know all about aesthetics and pleasing the customer , but that model is a abomination. It has no line .
I'm currently flying a Resolute and I'm really enjoying it.
Oh and I've said before...you can't design by committee.
Regardless of our difference in subjective visual taste, I think your comments make an important point: this new design looks pretty much nothing like the Excelsior. And I think that is the root of any "problem" that people have with it. I mean, you just said you thought the Excelsior is one of the WORST designs, yet you REALLY like this design. The fact that you have 2 polar opposite opinions about the Excelsior and this ship show that they look nothing alike.
If you are going to make a T6 Excelsior, it should look like an Excelsior. And if you don't want it to look like an Excelsior, than don't even mention the Excelsior, because that only creates false expectations.
PS: I am referring specifically to statements like this:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9456293-star-trek-online:-t6-resolute-adv.-heavy-cruiser
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9457263-star-trek-online:-resolute-heavy-cruiser-stats
Saying this ship is "based on the Excelsior" or is an "enhanced version" of the Excelsior is like saying the Galaxy class is "based on" the Constitution. Um, yeah they both have a saucer and 2 nacelles, but they are obviously very different visually. The only thing about this ship that looks remotely like the Excelsior is the lower hull. Other than that, no part of this ship looks anything like the Excelsior. And that's fine...as long as you aren't telling people it's based on the Excelsior.
My "dislike" of this ship is based more on it's bad marketing and false expectations it created than the actual design of the ship.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
False expectations? Hardly. It was released without anyone expecting it.
I have to agree with cmdrscarlet above. You can definitely see the Excelsior linage in the Resolute.
Yes, anyone can use the "eye of the beholder" line to say that anything looks like anything else. I can say that the Constitution "resembles" an Imperial Star Destroyer, and when someone disagrees with me I can just say "eye of the beholder!". But beyond both being shades of grey(no pun intended), I couldn't actually *explain* any other visual resemblance.
As I said earlier, I agree the lower hull of this new ship looks like an Excelsior's lower hull, but other than that, no part on this ship looks like an Excelsior to me. The Saucers look nothing alike. The nacelles look nothing alike. So 2/3 of the main parts of the ship(saucer, nacelle, and lower hull) look nothing like the Excelsior, to me. If you disagree, that's fine; I'm not saying you are wrong. But please explain in what ways you see the resemblance. Other than having 2 nacelles and a saucer, since that is true of the majority of Fed ships. So I guess you could say most Fed ships "resemble" each other in a broad sense.
They may not have expected this ship specifically, but people were expecting the eventual release of a T6 Excelsior. And we have been told that that is what this is, in the quotes I posted previously.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Again, not saying you are wrong. But I pose the same question to you as I did to cmdrscarlet in my last post. In what specific ways do you think they look alike?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
While I don't disagree with you, there are a LOT of people who like the Scryer simply because of the signature on the original piece of concept art that the Scryer drew inspiration from.
Perhaps I should clarify.
I never liked the hull of the Excelsior specifically, personally preferring the sleeker Constitution Refit. The Excelsior to me was "bulky" and didn't convey speed or power. It was more like a period in design that was perhaps more practical in the early 80s with influences of the time that resulted in it being visually thicker and slower-looking...almost whale-like. And thats not an accident because the design of the Excelsior was personally picked by Leonard Nimoy who directed III and then co-wrote and directed IV - about you guessed it...saving whales.
This newer version I can see is based-on the former with the hull basic shape/idea and the long nacelles, but has the sleek, stylized design of the newer ships. To me it IS an update to the original and NOT a polar opposite as you suggest from my comment.
In fact, I've looked at a few polls (small numbers so low statistical value - generally less than 1000 votes) and I have yet to see the Excelsior voted above the bottom 3 (and it's usually last place). Yes it's a cherished design among some people and I get that. I wouldn't have ever thought of creating threads to push my own design ideals on others. It was put in the game...enjoy it. It's just not my thing. The Resolute is the Excelsior I want and given that Cryptic opened the skins for it on their own for release...fans of the original can have the T6 they want too.
Not sure how that can be disappointing. Such is the internet.
First taco, thanks for continuing to be one of the ones to talk to us and engage us. Second thanks for your work and your team's work. If only writing kept up with the quality of art.
Frankly I kinda like the new design, but they hyper-spoon saucer I don't like.. on any design. The basic spoon saucer on the Sovereign and Intrepid were ok but not something I really loved either, tho imo it worked better on the Sovereign. The only other kibbitz I have is the 2410 nacelle theme... ugly imo and very much not a fan. The Sovereign did a good nacelle imo, and I'm not sure why STO has moved so far from that idea...
Then again I'm probably a bad one to talk to because starfleet design aesthetics peaked in the movie era imo
The new saucer shape is great cause its (roughly) the same shape as the Starfleet logo. An the nacelles had to be adjusted for a sleeker look as well.
I have to admit, I'm kind of getting a different message from your earlier post. Earlier, you said the Excelsior design was one of the WORST in the ENTIRE series. Now, you are saying you just didn't like it that much, in comparison with the sleeker Connie. That you didn't like the original Excelsior design I'm clear on, but you seem to have shifted from seemingly hating it to it simply not being your cup of tea. Did you have a change of heart, or am I misreading you?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
http://msviviane.deviantart.com/art/Solar-Class-Heavy-Excelsoir-Rf-Concept-Hull-2-448150280
http://msviviane.deviantart.com/art/Solar-Class-Heavy-Excelsoir-Refit-Dyson-WIP-444940163
http://msviviane.deviantart.com/art/Polar-Class-Rear-Nacelle-Idea-445174101
Something like a Excelsoir inspired super-fit slash Dyson heavy science and engineering.
I think that's a great solution myself, if you don't like the new design.. no sweat.. just slap on the classic design you already know and love. You can even mix and match them to make the ship look the way you want.
As Taco said, you can't please everyone, it's impossible. But the approach they used is, in my opinion, the best way to handle it. Any fan of the Excelsior can easily turn the Resolute into a design that they like.
1) Making it too similar, so you don't actually see any major differences. The Veteran Destroyers are very much like that (but get saved a bit by at least for the Feds adding a feature that really makes the whole design better), the Vestas or the Dyson Destroyers.
2) Making it too different, so that the parts don't seem to fit on any other ship. The Pathfinder might be the best example for that happening. The Saucer and the Hull section cannot really be separately, you always get ugly areas that might not be outright seams, but just don't look neat.
The two biggest chances for new variants:
1) Offer pieces that can actually fix some flaws in the original options. (Best counter-example here: The Recon Science Vessel. IT doesn't matter what variant you pick, the whole hull/deflector section looks awful. )
2) Offer more variety to create your individual look.
The Resolute seems to me a bit more positive example. It adds new option that can be used to create new looks and work together. Mostly - I am not sure about the pylons and nacelles.
If you just want to fine-tune your Excelsior - there are already the parts of the Lakota Retrofit and there are also a few new materials available now at Tier 6. But if you want an individual look, the Resolute adds the right parts for it.
Yes, correct. I said "it's one of the worst in the entire series for my eyes" so if I made a personal list of all the Trek ships then the Excelsior would be a the bottom. Just because it's my personal worst doesn't mean I need hate it with passion, which is why I wanted to clarify. There is no change of heart.
I also explained why I dislike it in terms broader than a single word as to why I would rate it such.
I'd also rank the Reliant way down personally too, because I was never a fan of just the saucer with no hull. Again...personal design taste. All design, artwork, food, movies, etc, etc is subjective like that. Some like the old ship and some don't. Some like the new ship and some don't. Neither "side" is invalidated in any way.