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shield damage discrepancy (torpedoes vs beam arrays)
rekurzion
Member Posts: 697 Arc User
Issue: there seems to be a hidden calculation rendering shield damage of the same quantity for torpedoes far less than with beam arrays
Test Scenario: a foundry mission setup to fight a Klingon Negh'Var battleship run on normal. I won't go into the specifics of the weapons used other than they were a single photon torpedo (~5400 base damage) and a single phaser beam array (~750 base damage). The details are inconsequential as this is a test of the resulting damage output of these weapons according to the combat log and their effect on NPC shielding.
I began by baiting the NPC to follow me in order to keep it at a distance between 5km and 7km firing from my aft weapon slots. The first test was with the photon torpedoes registering shield damage on average of 1000 according to the combat log (this is after innate kinetic shield resistance and the final shield damage indicator for the torpedo). After 36 shots fired and registered as hits in the combat log the NPC forward shield showed only a slight dent - perceivable towards the last few shots but visibly still around 95% available. That's 36,000 points of shield damage.
The second test was run the same way but using a single phaser beam array registering shield damage on average of 550 per shot resulting in an average of 2200 per firing cycle (4 shots per cycle). To get an even comparison I fired 16 4-cycle shots (36,000 / 2200 ~= 16). The result: by the 14th firing cycle the NPC's forward shields were less than 25% available.
Specifics: OK, maybe a few more specifics are in order. Criticals were around 5%, the lowest I could get them and apparent in the combat log. The crits from the torpedoes and phasers were negligible in creating any significant advantage between the two in terms of totals points of damage administered. Accuracy was designed to be at or near 100% and reflected in the combat log with a result of 100% accuracy. The plan was to provide the most consistent damage per shot possible for testing.
Conclusion: WTF? I'm being serious. I ran the test 5 times and the same result each time. Shield damage from torpedoes are significantly less than the equivalent damage value for beam arrays. Let me state this explicitly so there isn't confusion: 36,000 points of shield damage from a torpedo equals little to no shield damage. 36,000 points of shield damage from a beam array registers completely as expected. It would seem in addition to the innate kinetic damage resistance there is a hidden calculation reducing shield damage of torpedoes despite the combat log output. I thought at first it might be that NPC shields are insanely high (albeit this test would indicate an NPC Battleships's shields capacity on Normal is around 40,000 or over 100,000) and/or their shield regeneration rate is around 800-900/second. But the success with the single beam array suggests that much of the remaining torpedo damage to shields, after the innate kinetic resistance, is just being negated. Dismissed. I mean, what gives? This can't be functioning as expected given the battle log output and the numerous descriptions of shield innate kinetic resistance. Its bad enough a HYIII grav torp leaving my launch bays with a base damage of 20,000+ not causing a single dent on the average firgate shields. It's bad enough my 5500 base damage (or whatever base damage) torpedo fired on a bare NPC's hull unbuffed struggles to reach its max unless a critical hit is applied. I often get hits registered at 3000 and sometimes less. How? Phasers always seem to reach their max base damage on bare hull. I knew torpedoes struggle in this game to have meaning but this test proves the majority of torpedoes for human players have been rendered utterly useless against NPC shields while their torpedoes seem to do more damage to human shields than beam arrays.
This should be addressed and remedied.
Side Note: when did boarding parties become impervious to damage? I can shoot a little fighter with average beam arrays and its shields are gone in one cycle, with the same beam array I can't put a dent into a single boarding party shuttle.
Balance?
Test Scenario: a foundry mission setup to fight a Klingon Negh'Var battleship run on normal. I won't go into the specifics of the weapons used other than they were a single photon torpedo (~5400 base damage) and a single phaser beam array (~750 base damage). The details are inconsequential as this is a test of the resulting damage output of these weapons according to the combat log and their effect on NPC shielding.
I began by baiting the NPC to follow me in order to keep it at a distance between 5km and 7km firing from my aft weapon slots. The first test was with the photon torpedoes registering shield damage on average of 1000 according to the combat log (this is after innate kinetic shield resistance and the final shield damage indicator for the torpedo). After 36 shots fired and registered as hits in the combat log the NPC forward shield showed only a slight dent - perceivable towards the last few shots but visibly still around 95% available. That's 36,000 points of shield damage.
The second test was run the same way but using a single phaser beam array registering shield damage on average of 550 per shot resulting in an average of 2200 per firing cycle (4 shots per cycle). To get an even comparison I fired 16 4-cycle shots (36,000 / 2200 ~= 16). The result: by the 14th firing cycle the NPC's forward shields were less than 25% available.
Specifics: OK, maybe a few more specifics are in order. Criticals were around 5%, the lowest I could get them and apparent in the combat log. The crits from the torpedoes and phasers were negligible in creating any significant advantage between the two in terms of totals points of damage administered. Accuracy was designed to be at or near 100% and reflected in the combat log with a result of 100% accuracy. The plan was to provide the most consistent damage per shot possible for testing.
Conclusion: WTF? I'm being serious. I ran the test 5 times and the same result each time. Shield damage from torpedoes are significantly less than the equivalent damage value for beam arrays. Let me state this explicitly so there isn't confusion: 36,000 points of shield damage from a torpedo equals little to no shield damage. 36,000 points of shield damage from a beam array registers completely as expected. It would seem in addition to the innate kinetic damage resistance there is a hidden calculation reducing shield damage of torpedoes despite the combat log output. I thought at first it might be that NPC shields are insanely high (albeit this test would indicate an NPC Battleships's shields capacity on Normal is around 40,000 or over 100,000) and/or their shield regeneration rate is around 800-900/second. But the success with the single beam array suggests that much of the remaining torpedo damage to shields, after the innate kinetic resistance, is just being negated. Dismissed. I mean, what gives? This can't be functioning as expected given the battle log output and the numerous descriptions of shield innate kinetic resistance. Its bad enough a HYIII grav torp leaving my launch bays with a base damage of 20,000+ not causing a single dent on the average firgate shields. It's bad enough my 5500 base damage (or whatever base damage) torpedo fired on a bare NPC's hull unbuffed struggles to reach its max unless a critical hit is applied. I often get hits registered at 3000 and sometimes less. How? Phasers always seem to reach their max base damage on bare hull. I knew torpedoes struggle in this game to have meaning but this test proves the majority of torpedoes for human players have been rendered utterly useless against NPC shields while their torpedoes seem to do more damage to human shields than beam arrays.
This should be addressed and remedied.
Side Note: when did boarding parties become impervious to damage? I can shoot a little fighter with average beam arrays and its shields are gone in one cycle, with the same beam array I can't put a dent into a single boarding party shuttle.
Balance?
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Comments
EDIT: It appears you're talking about the actual scale of the difference... in which case I'm not really sure what's going on.
your edit is on the right track. my argument is not that kinetic damage should be just as viable against shields as energy damage but the comparison of equal damage done to shields. Put another way, "What is the difference between X points of shield damage from kinetic damage vs X points of shield damage from energy damage?" The answer should be none. The same answer as what is the difference between a pound of bricks and a pound of feathers? None, they are both a pound. But this test exposes that a pound of bricks is indeed less than a pound of feathers.
am i missing something? I hope someone can replicate this and/or tell me I'm wrong. I understand the effects innate shield resistance has on torpedoes, and shield bleedthrough where a portion of damage just goes to the ether. But after all of the calculations and bleedthrough and resistance if the combat log says weapon Y connected to cause X amount of shield damage and weapon Z connected to cause X amount of shield damage, why is one weapon causing less damage than the other if both result in X?