I think you need to look up what an 'oppressed minority' is dude.
Oppressed minority? Dude, as you phrase it, what century do you live in. In the western world LGBT haven't been an oppressed minority for ages. Putin's Russia may be the exception, but everyone who isn't a butt buddy of Putin (excuse the phrase) is oppressed there.
With all the political correctness and lawsuits one could make a convincing argument that heterosexuals and in particular heterosexual males are the current "oppressed minority".
Either way by organizing a "pride" the existing gap will only be widened. If you want to be accepted then you need to find a balance between staying hidden and openly flaunting your sexuality and i can tell you here and now that a "pride" is not the silver bullet you're looking for.
Aaand that's taking it too far, and I say that as a heterosexual male--a Caucasian het male, no less.
LGBT people are only treated as people in some places. I happen to spend 99% of my time in one of those places. But unfortunately, Bryan Fischer still exists. The Westboro Baptist "Church" still exists. Homophobia is still a thing.
And it will still be a thing until the only time anyone cares about sexual orientation is when they check to make sure that they have a compatible orientation with the person they have a crush on before they ask that person out.
I think you need to look up what an 'oppressed minority' is dude.
Oppressed minority? Dude, as you phrase it, what century do you live in. In the western world LGBT haven't been an oppressed minority for ages. Putin's Russia may be the exception, but everyone who isn't a butt buddy of Putin (excuse the phrase) is oppressed there.
With all the political correctness and lawsuits one could make a convincing argument that heterosexuals and in particular heterosexual males are the current "oppressed minority".
Either way by organizing a "pride" the existing gap will only be widened. If you want to be accepted then you need to find a balance between staying hidden and openly flaunting your sexuality and i can tell you here and now that a "pride" is not the silver bullet you're looking for.
White male privilege level: OVERWHELMING
Are you a male rights activist? Because frankly, comparing your struggles as a white male to that of an LGBT person is offensive. Please do tell me about the times you have been actively oppressed for simply being a white male.
Suggesting that people (let alone LGBT people) should simply blend in or face the wrath of the judgement of others, is awfully laughable and is a very conservative ideal. If people lived their lives like this, the world would be a very grey, very complacent place.
I think you need to look up what an 'oppressed minority' is dude.
Oppressed minority? Dude, as you phrase it, what century do you live in. In the western world LGBT haven't been an oppressed minority for ages. Putin's Russia may be the exception, but everyone who isn't a butt buddy of Putin (excuse the phrase) is oppressed there.
With all the political correctness and lawsuits one could make a convincing argument that heterosexuals and in particular heterosexual males are the current "oppressed minority".
Either way by organizing a "pride" the existing gap will only be widened. If you want to be accepted then you need to find a balance between staying hidden and openly flaunting your sexuality and i can tell you here and now that a "pride" is not the silver bullet you're looking for.
You have no idea what you're talking about. There is still open discrimination against people who identify as LGBT, and a couple court orders isn't going to change things overnight. While I would argue that acceptance for LGBT has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years, that doesn't mean the problem is solved.
Very well put I would say. Things are definitely better, but by no means does that mean everything is peachy.
"Polls are so annoying, let's make a poll to see who agrees!"
That's nice. I'll be busy taking the Star Trek approach to homosexuality or race for that matter, which is to treat as an already-accepted thing no more worth mentioning than heterosexuality and ignore it.
Yup, me too. That is true equality.
Hey, yea, that's a nice thought. I'm totally for that, but we don't live in the future. Here in the present, its a thing and equality is still something that doesn't truly exist.
There is only one path to true equality. Apathy. The only way that people will ever treat everyone as equals is to stop caring about what makes people different from each other. This will never happen, because it means that people must abandon the idea that being different makes them special. Well..... it makes you special all right... just like everyone else.
This individual makes this argument every single time anyone mentions being g--a--y. Back in the closet says he. You offend my tender eyes.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I think you need to look up what an 'oppressed minority' is dude.
Oppressed minority? Dude, as you phrase it, what century do you live in. In the western world LGBT haven't been an oppressed minority for ages. Putin's Russia may be the exception, but everyone who isn't a butt buddy of Putin (excuse the phrase) is oppressed there.
With all the political correctness and lawsuits one could make a convincing argument that heterosexuals and in particular heterosexual males are the current "oppressed minority".
Either way by organizing a "pride" the existing gap will only be widened. If you want to be accepted then you need to find a balance between staying hidden and openly flaunting your sexuality and i can tell you here and now that a "pride" is not the silver bullet you're looking for.
You probably tell the same nonsense to black people. "The law says you have the same rights as white people do so you can't possibly tell me you are being oppressed in the US."
Oh boy... how little you know... how little you understand.
I speak only for myself here, but I think what we would do well to remember as a society is that rights and equality are not a zero-sum game. We all need to stop treating it that way. All sides are caught up in this illusion right now--a false belief that for one party to gain means taking away from another, and a false belief that our rights are independent of each other. I don't lay the fault for the illusion on one side or the other: we have all given false credence to it. When we demonize each other, we are accomplishing nothing and we stay trapped in our history.
As long as we continue to believe that there are, or have to be, losers, then there will be. And there will continue to be tension, and resentment, and anger in a never-ending cycle of action and reaction. Further, if I deny someone their right to speak and act short of their outright attacking me or my property, or threatening to do so, then I am not free: I have created the very atmosphere of suppression that will ultimately backlash onto me.
Real freedom looks suspiciously close to barely-controlled chaos, on the overall society level. There will always be offense in a free society, even though individual subgroups may decide where the limits are within their boundaries (for instance, if I run a forum and PWE runs a forum, each of us chooses on our private property what we will and won't allow, and our choices may not be the same). Sometimes, people need safe spaces where they can go when they need a break from the rough and tumble that comes with freedom. Some people need it more than others, especially where there is a history of past trauma. Sometimes it's me that needs a place to get away. That's why I am OK with individual forums, businesses, etc. setting up rules within their boundaries.
But I don't think that "restricted" space can or should be everywhere. Freedom requires the ability to disagree openly, even vehemently, and to attempt to convince each other of different views--freedom to succeed in this and to fail, all without being forced. Either we all have this freedom, or none of us really do. This, along with the zero-sum fallacy, is what's causing us so much unnecessary strife.
There is irony in that, I know, that as one who holds very strong beliefs, that I believe just as strongly that as a society we cannot impose it by coercion or by government (other than preventing people from threatening each other's lives or property). In fact, I believe that the choices I make only hold value insomuch as they are free choices that I have taken upon myself. It would be only the palest shadow of an imitation if it were coerced (though the liability would be on the coercing party). I speak only for myself, but it doesn't make my beliefs any weaker or less sincere. In fact, I believe strength is gained through the right exercise of freedom of choice.
To the matter at hand? I have not had any problem interactions with members of Stonewall Fleet--so as far as I am concerned, the proper thing is for us to let each other be and respect each other's freedom.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I speak only for myself here, but I think what we would do well to remember as a society is that rights and equality are not a zero-sum game. We all need to stop treating it that way. All sides are caught up in this illusion right now--a false belief that for one party to gain means taking away from another, and a false belief that our rights are independent of each other. I don't lay the fault for the illusion on one side or the other: we have all given false credence to it. When we demonize each other, we are accomplishing nothing and we stay trapped in our history.
As long as we continue to believe that there are, or have to be, losers, then there will be. And there will continue to be tension, and resentment, and anger in a never-ending cycle of action and reaction. Further, if I deny someone their right to speak and act short of their outright attacking me or my property, or threatening to do so, then I am not free: I have created the very atmosphere of suppression that will ultimately backlash onto me.
Real freedom looks suspiciously close to barely-controlled chaos, on the overall society level. There will always be offense in a free society, even though individual subgroups may decide where the limits are within their boundaries (for instance, if I run a forum and PWE runs a forum, each of us chooses on our private property what we will and won't allow, and our choices may not be the same). Sometimes, people need safe spaces where they can go when they need a break from the rough and tumble that comes with freedom. Some people need it more than others, especially where there is a history of past trauma. Sometimes it's me that needs a place to get away. That's why I am OK with individual forums, businesses, etc. setting up rules within their boundaries.
But I don't think that "restricted" space can or should be everywhere. Freedom requires the ability to disagree openly, even vehemently, and to attempt to convince each other of different views--freedom to succeed in this and to fail, all without being forced. Either we all have this freedom, or none of us really do. This, along with the zero-sum fallacy, is what's causing us so much unnecessary strife.
There is irony in that, I know, that as one who holds very strong beliefs, that I believe just as strongly that as a society we cannot impose it by coercion or by government (other than preventing people from threatening each other's lives or property). In fact, I believe that the choices I make only hold value insomuch as they are free choices that I have taken upon myself. It would be only the palest shadow of an imitation if it were coerced (though the liability would be on the coercing party). I speak only for myself, but it doesn't make my beliefs any weaker or less sincere. In fact, I believe strength is gained through the right exercise of freedom of choice.
To the matter at hand? I have not had any problem interactions with members of Stonewall Fleet--so as far as I am concerned, the proper thing is for us to let each other be and respect each other's freedom.
Well said. A free society is one where people are free to treat other people like DIRT. The only way to prevent that by law is to regulate freedom out of existence.
Also there is that other matter. A society where people have varying beliefs will inevitably have situations where one person's definition of normal behavior is considered offensive to another. While some people claim you can avoid this with "education"... in reality there's simply too many way that it can possibly go wrong to prevent with "education". The only functional solution is for people to not get angry every time someone else does something they dislike. Such as declining to bake a cake...
This is a thread inviting players to an in-game event held by another group of particular players. This is not a thread discussing the merits of LGBT pride of sense of community. This is not a thread to give us your take on homosexuality. I can only imagine what Trendy would think about this massive derail.
I think that even if she decided to allow a post on a political topic she'd move it to Ten Forward where it belongs.
Because that would show even handedness in moderation, and not the typical reactionary slamming of anyone that deviates from party line.
I'm almost certain that this thread will stay right where it is, and warnings will be handed out.
the world would be a better place without gates between people
It's hard to think of something less like putting gates between people than inviting literally everybody in STO to join in their event.
It's the absurdity of creating a pride event which is erecting walls. By hosting a pride event the LGBT community, for as far as there is such a thing, effectively sets itself apart from everyone else thereby creating obstacles between both communities (LGBT and non LGBT).
If i were to host a pride event for heterosexuals, or simply for men, people would at the very least wonder if i lost my sanity.
So why is a pride event suddenly a good idea when it's directed at a LGBT community.
I think you need to look up what an 'oppressed minority' is dude. This isn't about erecting walls. The LGBT community are actually taking down these 'walls' that were put up in the first place by religion, homophobes, governments, and prudes. These oppressed minorities take pride in the fact that they are now earning the same basic human rights that white, middle class males all enjoy (the right to marry, adopt, not be harassed in public, job discrimination based simply on their sexuality, not having to deal with parents that would abandon you simply due to your sexuality... the list goes on).
It baffles me that so man straight people are basically saying 'okay, you have almost the same amount of rights now, pls stop making a fuss about it'. I'm pretty sure if you had less rights than everyone else for thousands of years, you'd want to celebrate finally getting them.
Also, weren't you the one who kicked up all that fuss about the TRIBBLE Klingons, saying it shouldn't be forced on us (When it wasn't even apparent, I didn't notice it until my second playthrough)? There is clearly some homophobia here, even if it is somewhat passive. If you don't like it, go elsewhere or ignore it. It's not like these people are trying to make you TRIBBLE.
EDIT: Cannot believe that g*a*y and l*e*s*b*i*a*n is censored....
EDIT 2: One minute, these are censored, next they aren't?
Not trying to derail this thread or even get into an argument here, but if you look into history itself, the community hasn't been oppressed for thousands of years, basic human rights are just that, they don't have to use different bathrooms and or aren't considered second class citizens.
Greeks, Romans and even the latter cultures of ancient Egypt (not to be mistaken for Kemet, people) placed them in the higher echelons of society and was practised freely amongst the elite when slaves were still called slaves.
I'm not trying to dishearten this at all, I am indifferent because its none of my business who practices what sexuality/gender/etc. Because in the future hopefully we will all look at this and take pride in how far we've come as a people to even have to squabble over such things.
I've already flagged this thread for worrying about what it would become way before it derailed and became the same old thing
I just wish this topic was totally and utterly against tos and within the fct no no it saddens me so much to see this kind of hate regardless of who it's aimed at especially since the op was only trying to do a nice thing.
ok, "hidden" was maybe not the good word. for me you use your "community" like a shield to protect yourself from the world. i mean, don't let a bunch of as..holes annoy you. the most important thing is your People (nation). nothing is more important than belonging to a people. color, sexuality, sex etc etc are not important. Nobody has the right to ask you what is your sexual preference; because this is a private part of what you are. this is why i don't like these "communities". who care if someone is g.a.y, muslim, l.e.s.b.i.a.n, buddhist etc. if i want to play in a game with someone or join a party, this is because this person is interesting.
During centuries my people have been treated like TRIBBLE, our culture and our language are almost dead, this is why i don't care about the details, and i like the persons like they are; because united we are strong, divided we are weak (lol, it is Tuvok's speech)
This event is just part of a celebration for the LGBT community where they acknowledge gaining rights after violent demonstrations. It is just a time of year they hold their celebrations and this event is not just for the LGBT community.
As part of their celebration the Stonewall Fleet are putting together events throughout this weekend for all of the STO community no matter what their sexual, religious or political preferences are.
There is no parading LGBT people like animals - it is quite simply a fun weekend with lots of prizes available to win.
If you can and want to attend, good luck trying to win some sweet prizes; if not, I hope you enjoy your weekend with whatever activity you choose to do.
Please remember to keep your posts civil - we do not want to be giving out warnings and deleting posts.
This event is just part of a celebration for the LGBT community where they acknowledge gaining rights after violent demonstrations. It is just a time of year they hold their celebrations and this event is not just for the LGBT community.
As part of their celebration the Stonewall Fleet are putting together events throughout this weekend for all of the STO community no matter what their sexual, religious or political preferences are.
There is no parading LGBT people like animals - it is quite simply a fun weekend with lots of prizes available to win.
If you can and want to attend, good luck trying to win some sweet prizes; if not, I hope you enjoy your weekend with whatever activity you choose to do.
Please remember to keep your posts civil - we do not want to be giving out warnings and deleting posts.
LLAP, MidNite
So you just FREELY admit that political statements and discussions are just fine by you, regardless of what the forum guidelines are. Good to know. Based on past moderator and manager behavior can we expect some TRIBBLE jokes and perhaps a little poking fun at religious figures? All in good taste mind you. The bias of the moderators on these forums, public twitter accounts, and Facebook is boggling. I guess as long as no ones bashes your favorite little group it's anything goes with you guys. Like who DOESN'T like a little Jesus Joke? Aethro Gaming LOVES them. Just Ask Ray!
existence is a political statement. little jesus? Mojo preached on plastic jesus if that is close enough. all people of conscience should hear his psalm.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I've already flagged this thread for worrying about what it would become way before it derailed and became the same old thing
I just wish this topic was totally and utterly against tos and within the fct no no it saddens me so much to see this kind of hate regardless of who it's aimed at especially since the op was only trying to do a nice thing.
It should have been posted in the Fleet section of the boards, since it's a Fleet related event.
The fact it was posted in the troll's nest of GD, means it's nothing but an excuse to start a bait thread.
It should have been posted in the Fleet section of the boards, since it's a Fleet related event.
This isn't fleet recruitment. It's a big public event. People being who they are openly isn't trolling.
Nice try.
2/10
The Fleet Section is more than just for recruiting. People also look for Fleets to join, Sell their Fleets, Post offers to buy, etc. There is no rule that I know of preventing Fleet announcements on those boards.
It's called the "Fleet Administrative Station" for a reason.
It doesn't have a damned thing to do with who somebody is. This is the WORST possible place to post such an event, since it's likely to generate yet another shitstorm.
They aren't recruiting. They aren't looking for fleets to join. They aren't selling a fleet. They aren't buying a fleet.
In fact, other than the fact that the people hosting it are in a fleet, this event has nothing to do with fleets at all! If this is a "shitstorm" it has nothing to do with the OP.
There is only one path to true equality. Apathy. The only way that people will ever treat everyone as equals is to stop caring about what makes people different from each other. This will never happen, because it means that people must abandon the idea that being different makes them special. Well..... it makes you special all right... just like everyone else.
Catch 22 really isn't it? We're all individuals and we all like to recognise those characteristics that make us who we are - but at the same time we have a disturbing habit of pigeonholing people according to those characteristics into social groups and stereotypes, which promotes segregation and friction when such groups interact.
That US vote on marriage is a good example. This news is good, really good! Yet all I saw was people spouting quite horrific anti-religious and homophobic poison. Tolerance indeed.
The irony is the celebration of differences is being wrapped under the guise of equality, and inclusion. Equality has no flag or abbreviation. Inclusion isn't advertising sexual preference of a group. A month back there was a Muhammad art contest that was by all means perfectly legal. However to millions it was extremely offensive. They had their doors open too.
Just because one can do a thing doesn't mean one should do a thing.
Humanity will advance when we put aside all our differences and get over our individual levels of pride.
How the hell can anyone be proud of their sexuality? It's like being proud of your skin colour. It's just the way it is. Pride stands in the way of equal rights, it does not promote them. Hell it is one of the seven deadly sins.
Most of the people I work with are homosexual. My GF's sister is TRIBBLE. I have lived and worked with TRIBBLE people for years.
After all this time I have come to learn that the LGBT "community", such as it is, is actually fractured. Most homosexual people live their lives, fully and freely, and you would never even guess. Those who just go about their business tend to frown upon those who flaunt it as part of the "community" because all they are doing is inviting negativity towards themselves. The most vehement activists tend to damage or mar the reputation of the cause they are trying to support because they simply dont understand that most people simply are not concerned with or find offense in their way of life. By forcing the issue in a very public way all that is achieved is drawing attention by those who feel negatively towards it to the group.
I have no problem with LGBT, but I find the very label, as do most of my TRIBBLE friends and colleagues, offensive, as it is in itself segregating themselves from "everyone else" by their own actions
How the hell can anyone be proud of their sexuality? It's like being proud of your skin colour. It's just the way it is. Pride stands in the way of equal rights, it does not promote them. Hell it is one of the seven deadly sins.
Seven deadly sins? Since when did that matter in a thread that makes no mention of/has nothing to do with religion?
If mankind has noticed that a certain action generally leads to bad results for thousands of years there is likely a reason for it. Pride does not lead to positive outcomes. It's not about religious propaganda (but nice try at ignoring the point to focus on a religious continuation as a means of deflection) it's about behaviour. Pride in your sexuality is stupid. Pride in your skin colour is stupid. Promoting these things through pride is stupid. They've led to the greatest evils man has had against man. Wrapping it in a rainbow flag changes nothing.
Maybe the haters should make their own thread instead of vandalizing this one, hmm???
lGBT folks, stay loud and proud! It's been a watershed year, there are a whole lot of reasons to celebrate, more every day at county clerks and courthouses from sea to shining sea!
You have an interesting definition of "haters" (and of "vandalism", but that's another topic). The point we're making is that in Star Trek they've fought that battle already. Which way you swing, or what color your skin is, or which set of chromosomes you have, or which deity you pray to (if any), means jack-squat next to whether you can accurately shoot a phaser and negotiate competently with aliens.
No, we're not haters. By not giving a flying frak what you do in bed and calling TRIBBLE pride a waste of air, we're the exact opposite. We're living the future of acceptance that Star Trek showed us.
This event is just part of a celebration for the LGBT community where they acknowledge gaining rights after violent demonstrations. It is just a time of year they hold their celebrations and this event is not just for the LGBT community.
As part of their celebration the Stonewall Fleet are putting together events throughout this weekend for all of the STO community no matter what their sexual, religious or political preferences are.
There is no parading LGBT people like animals - it is quite simply a fun weekend with lots of prizes available to win.
If you can and want to attend, good luck trying to win some sweet prizes; if not, I hope you enjoy your weekend with whatever activity you choose to do.
Please remember to keep your posts civil - we do not want to be giving out warnings and deleting posts.
LLAP, MidNite
So you just FREELY admit that political statements and discussions are just fine by you, regardless of what the forum guidelines are. Good to know. Based on past moderator and manager behavior can we expect some TRIBBLE jokes and perhaps a little poking fun at religious figures? All in good taste mind you. The bias of the moderators on these forums, public twitter accounts, and Facebook is boggling. I guess as long as no ones bashes your favorite little group it's anything goes with you guys. Like who DOESN'T like a little Jesus Joke? Aethro Gaming LOVES them. Just Ask Ray!
But it's cool.
The only reasons this is "political" are:
1. liberty, justice, and equality are political concepts (in that branch of Philosophy known as Politics)
2. certain partisan politicians have made it a partisan political issue to stand against liberty, justice, and equality in the name of religious bias as a means of soliciting the votes, campaign assistance, and financial contributions of disaffected bigots masquerading as religious persons (and a few authentically religious persons who have been misled).
As for "pride" being one of the "seven deadly sins," not everyone agrees with that translation, and not everyone believes that self-abnegation is a good thing. Pride is a virtue in a Noble Morality and in an Heroic Ethic. It's conceit that is a vice, not pride.
of course, it begins here, because all these communities build gates between people. that's all. sto is a game, gates shouldn't exist. damn', really: LGBT, christian, muslim, german, french, etc fleets; this is crazy. we should play all together. when i have joined my fleet, i hadn't asked if the others were black, christian, *g*ay etc, because this is not important.
arbitrary measure of human progress.
it is not arbitrary, do you think that i put my sentences without reflections? this human progress is a necessity, and we must evolve not by creating more tech objects, but in our minds. humans are just a bunch of children who spend too much time at watching their own belly buttons
i have nothing to add but read this post from Siliconpsycho:
"Most of the people I work with are homosexual. My GF's sister is TRIBBLE. I have lived and worked with TRIBBLE people for years.
After all this time I have come to learn that the LGBT "community", such as it is, is actually fractured. Most homosexual people live their lives, fully and freely, and you would never even guess. Those who just go about their business tend to frown upon those who flaunt it as part of the "community" because all they are doing is inviting negativity towards themselves. The most vehement activists tend to damage or mar the reputation of the cause they are trying to support because they simply dont understand that most people simply are not concerned with or find offense in their way of life. By forcing the issue in a very public way all that is achieved is drawing attention by those who feel negatively towards it to the group.
I have no problem with LGBT, but I find the very label, as do most of my TRIBBLE friends and colleagues, offensive, as it is in itself segregating themselves from "everyone else" by their own actions "
Yes yes more 'back in the closet' posts by those who don't want to see it or have their children be corrupted. We covered this fully with House of Pegh.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Comments
Aaand that's taking it too far, and I say that as a heterosexual male--a Caucasian het male, no less.
LGBT people are only treated as people in some places. I happen to spend 99% of my time in one of those places. But unfortunately, Bryan Fischer still exists. The Westboro Baptist "Church" still exists. Homophobia is still a thing.
And it will still be a thing until the only time anyone cares about sexual orientation is when they check to make sure that they have a compatible orientation with the person they have a crush on before they ask that person out.
Are you a male rights activist? Because frankly, comparing your struggles as a white male to that of an LGBT person is offensive. Please do tell me about the times you have been actively oppressed for simply being a white male.
Suggesting that people (let alone LGBT people) should simply blend in or face the wrath of the judgement of others, is awfully laughable and is a very conservative ideal. If people lived their lives like this, the world would be a very grey, very complacent place.
Very well put I would say. Things are definitely better, but by no means does that mean everything is peachy.
My character Tsin'xing
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You probably tell the same nonsense to black people. "The law says you have the same rights as white people do so you can't possibly tell me you are being oppressed in the US."
Oh boy... how little you know... how little you understand.
As long as we continue to believe that there are, or have to be, losers, then there will be. And there will continue to be tension, and resentment, and anger in a never-ending cycle of action and reaction. Further, if I deny someone their right to speak and act short of their outright attacking me or my property, or threatening to do so, then I am not free: I have created the very atmosphere of suppression that will ultimately backlash onto me.
Real freedom looks suspiciously close to barely-controlled chaos, on the overall society level. There will always be offense in a free society, even though individual subgroups may decide where the limits are within their boundaries (for instance, if I run a forum and PWE runs a forum, each of us chooses on our private property what we will and won't allow, and our choices may not be the same). Sometimes, people need safe spaces where they can go when they need a break from the rough and tumble that comes with freedom. Some people need it more than others, especially where there is a history of past trauma. Sometimes it's me that needs a place to get away. That's why I am OK with individual forums, businesses, etc. setting up rules within their boundaries.
But I don't think that "restricted" space can or should be everywhere. Freedom requires the ability to disagree openly, even vehemently, and to attempt to convince each other of different views--freedom to succeed in this and to fail, all without being forced. Either we all have this freedom, or none of us really do. This, along with the zero-sum fallacy, is what's causing us so much unnecessary strife.
There is irony in that, I know, that as one who holds very strong beliefs, that I believe just as strongly that as a society we cannot impose it by coercion or by government (other than preventing people from threatening each other's lives or property). In fact, I believe that the choices I make only hold value insomuch as they are free choices that I have taken upon myself. It would be only the palest shadow of an imitation if it were coerced (though the liability would be on the coercing party). I speak only for myself, but it doesn't make my beliefs any weaker or less sincere. In fact, I believe strength is gained through the right exercise of freedom of choice.
To the matter at hand? I have not had any problem interactions with members of Stonewall Fleet--so as far as I am concerned, the proper thing is for us to let each other be and respect each other's freedom.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Also there is that other matter. A society where people have varying beliefs will inevitably have situations where one person's definition of normal behavior is considered offensive to another. While some people claim you can avoid this with "education"... in reality there's simply too many way that it can possibly go wrong to prevent with "education". The only functional solution is for people to not get angry every time someone else does something they dislike. Such as declining to bake a cake...
My character Tsin'xing
Because that would show even handedness in moderation, and not the typical reactionary slamming of anyone that deviates from party line.
I'm almost certain that this thread will stay right where it is, and warnings will be handed out.
Not trying to derail this thread or even get into an argument here, but if you look into history itself, the community hasn't been oppressed for thousands of years, basic human rights are just that, they don't have to use different bathrooms and or aren't considered second class citizens.
Greeks, Romans and even the latter cultures of ancient Egypt (not to be mistaken for Kemet, people) placed them in the higher echelons of society and was practised freely amongst the elite when slaves were still called slaves.
I'm not trying to dishearten this at all, I am indifferent because its none of my business who practices what sexuality/gender/etc. Because in the future hopefully we will all look at this and take pride in how far we've come as a people to even have to squabble over such things.
Editing the page once seems to knock out the autocensor, is what I've noticed.
I just wish this topic was totally and utterly against tos and within the fct no no it saddens me so much to see this kind of hate regardless of who it's aimed at especially since the op was only trying to do a nice thing.
ok, "hidden" was maybe not the good word. for me you use your "community" like a shield to protect yourself from the world. i mean, don't let a bunch of as..holes annoy you. the most important thing is your People (nation). nothing is more important than belonging to a people. color, sexuality, sex etc etc are not important. Nobody has the right to ask you what is your sexual preference; because this is a private part of what you are. this is why i don't like these "communities". who care if someone is g.a.y, muslim, l.e.s.b.i.a.n, buddhist etc. if i want to play in a game with someone or join a party, this is because this person is interesting.
During centuries my people have been treated like TRIBBLE, our culture and our language are almost dead, this is why i don't care about the details, and i like the persons like they are; because united we are strong, divided we are weak (lol, it is Tuvok's speech)
As part of their celebration the Stonewall Fleet are putting together events throughout this weekend for all of the STO community no matter what their sexual, religious or political preferences are.
There is no parading LGBT people like animals - it is quite simply a fun weekend with lots of prizes available to win.
If you can and want to attend, good luck trying to win some sweet prizes; if not, I hope you enjoy your weekend with whatever activity you choose to do.
Please remember to keep your posts civil - we do not want to be giving out warnings and deleting posts.
LLAP, MidNite
So you just FREELY admit that political statements and discussions are just fine by you, regardless of what the forum guidelines are. Good to know. Based on past moderator and manager behavior can we expect some TRIBBLE jokes and perhaps a little poking fun at religious figures? All in good taste mind you. The bias of the moderators on these forums, public twitter accounts, and Facebook is boggling. I guess as long as no ones bashes your favorite little group it's anything goes with you guys. Like who DOESN'T like a little Jesus Joke? Aethro Gaming LOVES them. Just Ask Ray!
But it's cool.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It should have been posted in the Fleet section of the boards, since it's a Fleet related event.
The fact it was posted in the troll's nest of GD, means it's nothing but an excuse to start a bait thread.
This isn't fleet recruitment. It's a big public event. People being who they are openly isn't trolling.
Nice try.
2/10
The Fleet Section is more than just for recruiting. People also look for Fleets to join, Sell their Fleets, Post offers to buy, etc. There is no rule that I know of preventing Fleet announcements on those boards.
It's called the "Fleet Administrative Station" for a reason.
It doesn't have a damned thing to do with who somebody is. This is the WORST possible place to post such an event, since it's likely to generate yet another shitstorm.
In fact, other than the fact that the people hosting it are in a fleet, this event has nothing to do with fleets at all! If this is a "shitstorm" it has nothing to do with the OP.
Catch 22 really isn't it? We're all individuals and we all like to recognise those characteristics that make us who we are - but at the same time we have a disturbing habit of pigeonholing people according to those characteristics into social groups and stereotypes, which promotes segregation and friction when such groups interact.
That US vote on marriage is a good example. This news is good, really good! Yet all I saw was people spouting quite horrific anti-religious and homophobic poison. Tolerance indeed.
Just because one can do a thing doesn't mean one should do a thing.
Humanity will advance when we put aside all our differences and get over our individual levels of pride.
After all this time I have come to learn that the LGBT "community", such as it is, is actually fractured. Most homosexual people live their lives, fully and freely, and you would never even guess. Those who just go about their business tend to frown upon those who flaunt it as part of the "community" because all they are doing is inviting negativity towards themselves. The most vehement activists tend to damage or mar the reputation of the cause they are trying to support because they simply dont understand that most people simply are not concerned with or find offense in their way of life. By forcing the issue in a very public way all that is achieved is drawing attention by those who feel negatively towards it to the group.
I have no problem with LGBT, but I find the very label, as do most of my TRIBBLE friends and colleagues, offensive, as it is in itself segregating themselves from "everyone else" by their own actions
If mankind has noticed that a certain action generally leads to bad results for thousands of years there is likely a reason for it. Pride does not lead to positive outcomes. It's not about religious propaganda (but nice try at ignoring the point to focus on a religious continuation as a means of deflection) it's about behaviour. Pride in your sexuality is stupid. Pride in your skin colour is stupid. Promoting these things through pride is stupid. They've led to the greatest evils man has had against man. Wrapping it in a rainbow flag changes nothing.
You have an interesting definition of "haters" (and of "vandalism", but that's another topic). The point we're making is that in Star Trek they've fought that battle already. Which way you swing, or what color your skin is, or which set of chromosomes you have, or which deity you pray to (if any), means jack-squat next to whether you can accurately shoot a phaser and negotiate competently with aliens.
No, we're not haters. By not giving a flying frak what you do in bed and calling TRIBBLE pride a waste of air, we're the exact opposite. We're living the future of acceptance that Star Trek showed us.
The only reasons this is "political" are:
1. liberty, justice, and equality are political concepts (in that branch of Philosophy known as Politics)
2. certain partisan politicians have made it a partisan political issue to stand against liberty, justice, and equality in the name of religious bias as a means of soliciting the votes, campaign assistance, and financial contributions of disaffected bigots masquerading as religious persons (and a few authentically religious persons who have been misled).
As for "pride" being one of the "seven deadly sins," not everyone agrees with that translation, and not everyone believes that self-abnegation is a good thing. Pride is a virtue in a Noble Morality and in an Heroic Ethic. It's conceit that is a vice, not pride.
indeed, this is why, we must begin to change the things now. mankind must leave the age of puberty, for enters adulthood.
not only for our specie, but also for the others and the ecosystems; we have made enough *bulllshit; it is time to stop.
it is not arbitrary, do you think that i put my sentences without reflections? this human progress is a necessity, and we must evolve not by creating more tech objects, but in our minds. humans are just a bunch of children who spend too much time at watching their own belly buttons
i have nothing to add but read this post from Siliconpsycho:
"Most of the people I work with are homosexual. My GF's sister is TRIBBLE. I have lived and worked with TRIBBLE people for years.
After all this time I have come to learn that the LGBT "community", such as it is, is actually fractured. Most homosexual people live their lives, fully and freely, and you would never even guess. Those who just go about their business tend to frown upon those who flaunt it as part of the "community" because all they are doing is inviting negativity towards themselves. The most vehement activists tend to damage or mar the reputation of the cause they are trying to support because they simply dont understand that most people simply are not concerned with or find offense in their way of life. By forcing the issue in a very public way all that is achieved is drawing attention by those who feel negatively towards it to the group.
I have no problem with LGBT, but I find the very label, as do most of my TRIBBLE friends and colleagues, offensive, as it is in itself segregating themselves from "everyone else" by their own actions "
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."