Its a nice idea, but you have to admit. The rules look a lot like "no unfbpable damage, and nothing to make you science damage". Um notice that deploy is only an immunity vs science? The argument of "don't shoot fbp" can be made to Yellowstones... "don't fly into them".
Then think about it... Yellowstones... really? What about spamming warp plasma and ewp torpedoes...
SIF collapse? that's not exactly a game breaking amount of damage but it does add to torpedo damage.
From the list... most of it is literally things that kill science ships faster, makes you immune to science, or is something a science ship cant use like hangar pets.
But lets think, is multiple subnukes and virals really better? Is saying "moderate" your fbp better? I suggested this already in OPvP "moderate your FBP, we can moderate our torps and plasma"... The only response I remember was a laugh. Then what do we see in the arena, a lot of teams of full scis from CSI... who happens to be hosting this...
So is it team once, then go try to make a private so to avoid others teaming up?
Its a good idea but this is a bias rule set.
Yah I've seen the teaming effort so far... its efficient, but if you are going to outlaw so much from one side you need to do it from both.
oh look.. another anti-science thread.. well TRIBBLE.. that is all these kings who inherited the dead kingdom of PvP have these days is FAW, KEMO, Plasma, FBP, and TBR... I mean that is all PvP is in this game anymore is part gens. I am not convinced that people at cryptic do not care.. but I do believe they are idiots. Who makes 500K+ hits possible in a game?... well.. simple.. Cryptic does. Damn.. easiest paycheck in the world is if you go and work for cryptic. No one questions your crappy code and then it is released despite players protesting. I wish to god that CBS yanked their contract because they cannot code worth a TRIBBLE.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Seeing as science was always best for control, debuff and heal in PvP. I don't see your point.
Not only that, back in the days before DR I was taken out a few times by FBP when trying to alphastrike a science ship.
Without plasma explosions and kemocite, sci captains will just have to rely on the old fashioned way of doing "damage", debuff the target within an inch of his life and then hit him.
Seeing as science was always best for control, debuff and heal in PvP. I don't see your point.
Not only that, back in the days before DR I was taken out a few times by FBP when trying to alphastrike a science ship.
Without plasma explosions and kemocite, sci captains will just have to rely on the old fashioned way of doing "damage", debuff the target within an inch of his life and then hit him.
Really.. 400 part gens and 500K+ (seen 700K) hits with fbp.. really? Alpha can't even do that and we are talking about a science skill as old as alpha. Can we please step back into a bit of reality... please?
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
oh look.. another anti-science thread.. well TRIBBLE.. that is all these kings who inherited the dead kingdom of PvP have these days is FAW, KEMO, Plasma, FBP, and TBR... I mean that is all PvP is in this game anymore is part gens. I am not convinced that people at cryptic do not care.. but I do believe they are idiots. Who makes 500K+ hits possible in a game?... well.. simple.. Cryptic does. Damn.. easiest paycheck in the world is if you go and work for cryptic. No one questions your crappy code and then it is released despite players protesting. I wish to god that CBS yanked their contract because they cannot code worth a TRIBBLE.
FIRST: Id like to make it known I do know I'm just as much at fault...
Now...
Another fun one? FBP in the show only took out the EPS grid and crippled the ship, getting blown sky high never happened. Theres so much concern for "saving pvp" yet the majority is all science. What would happen if we all flew wells? this would infact fall under your "rule set" posted in this forum. Would this be better? Yet people still cant see that this is what kills the game. You have one side who can not give up FBP, usually people who can no longer fly X ship anymore, say an escort. I mean look at the names flying sci ships now... I see a lot of old escort pilots who don't want to fight fbp... doing fbp. Does this help in any way?
Then because the pro-fbp side wont drop it, you get the other pro-plasma/torpedo side that is going to fight it, and you cant just wish it away. So long as you are going to keep making these teams, using these builds its not going to work. Then to make a rule set this bias, that just is showing how strongly people are holding to this.
You will notice that I literally fly everything... You will notice that I've cut back on the plasma/torpedos unless there's a team of science out there ruining it. The point can be made that science can be a good deturant for plasma too, and ill even admit I've used it latley vs these kinds of faw teams, but to team up doing it? no that's not going to work. Every day now I've been doing an all cannon/bo match or two, and I'll keep doing it until its not doable because some ignorant team queues, may it be Plasma or FBP, or torpedos.
I've PUGed, I've always puged and it adds variety. If you are always going to win, then why play. But then comes these threads that come off too much "I need to have the game in my favor" that claim they are in the name of "balance"... yah that's not going to cut it. And that I'm going to get these responses to this as well. Before you answer it think... was it fun when half the matches were healers? Was it fun when it was all escorts? Do you want it to be all scis? We all do infact have them. They have already nerfed these issues... notice the healers still don't, and never really did have issues vs plasma faw and torpedos. If a healer can stay above 70%, I think so can a sci ship with 15-20k less hull... but instead the excuse is going to be made that its more broken to use X than Y?
You need to think of what you are defending and how many more players you want to leave the game. Remember matches that had variety? Vapers, Torpedoes, Healers, Drainers, Support, Crowd Control, PRTG, Faw, Cruisers, Zombies, Tanks, and every thing in between? What are we down to now... Torpedoes, Faw, Healers and Sci. How much more variety do we need to lose? Ive already made the suggestion that people do what they did Pre DR, pre PRTG boost, but we still rather fight that its easier to get something removed from the game, to get everyone to play by that rule.
But to be un-biased now, ill defend both.
FBP - Yes it has its usefulness, but it should be a SECONDARY ability. Healing on a sci ship, hmm that only goes to lt commander, theres your commander power.
Plasma - Notice how we all have more hull, more res? This is more of a balance for faw if its used to a ::LIMIT:: say 1 console, 2 consoles...
Torpedos - You get kemocite, they can wipe out a lot and are extremely deadly vs raw hull.
All of these are easily considered op or broken... but can we say that Plasma and Torpedoes need to be removed more because the majority of whats left of PvP are exotic damage? That's not right, and that's why many of you switched to exotic.
Please think about this, and make the change.
P.S. I'm not about to spend 20 minutes going back looking for typos, so please figure out spelling and that stuff by yourself.
I think we should all take a step back. Both sci and tac abilities need to be removed/regulated. Yes there should be regulations on sci players, since fbp and resonance beam will wreck any tac player, even weak ones. On the other hand, there's broken things like kemocite, immunities (r&r being the worst offender), viral torps and neutronics, 20sec rsp that can have a reduced cooldown due to technician and starship traits.
Like I said earlier, the best pvp was before DR TRIBBLE, which means both new sci AND tac abilities that came after it should be regulated. Not saying we should completely eliminate some things like fbp and a2b faw builds that have been around since forever, but they need to be regulated. And the best way to do that is enforce new rules and see how those rules balance pvp matches. Things like secondary deflectors or reciprocity (which only feds get) aren't helping.
In these examples, things like timing, boff configs, and piloting skills mattered. Not flying circles like a headless chicken and critting everything with kemo and neuts.
Credit for these vids goes to InnerCircleSTO and trinioler.
hmm lets see you have restricted nothing from particle generator skills so no restrictions on spam science builds that do more to kill the pvp queues then anything else. If you want a true no bs league you need to restrict and ban the use of particle manipulator that 1 trait is extremely imbalanced.
No restrictions on neutronic or isokinetic cannon? No restrictions on feed back pulse? No stacking limit on particle generator skill? this isn't a no bs rule set and this is why stuff like this never takes off.
Vex was kinda right... interesting that FBP isnt banned considering it can get - if someone shoots you and has intense focus trait up to 100% shield and armor pen, and after remake (so its old) is bugged that can reflect dmg even through abilities that actually should make you immune to it like warp shadows.
The rules seem rly biased to favor sci ships (for example via allowing pilot tree and its scratch the pain lag that was stated by Cryptic as one of the biggest lag making abilities in game so help sci ships survive as its more beneficial for them then for escorts, while banning RNR as its main counter to FBP).
Nerf on more eng heavy escorts (like JHSS ect who have so many eng abiliteis that they use structural breach to not have wasted slot) to not vape kill the poor wells in 1-2 shots via its low hull value and hard torp hit.
Althrough the rest of the rules seem logical (would welcome 100% alldmg immunity and invincibility ban though as its against everything what pvp stands for).
Plasma doping ban is good as it makes shitloads of lag even when dmg is after fix decent at best.
Can someone invite Lucretia@lucho80? My build uses zero of the prohibited items, and frankly, I stick with only the classic boff abilities. No pilot, intel, or command, or new post DR boff abilites.
Comments
Hi o/ Just check the first post of this thread, that's all you have to know, nothing else at the moment
stuff because /10char...
Then think about it... Yellowstones... really? What about spamming warp plasma and ewp torpedoes...
SIF collapse? that's not exactly a game breaking amount of damage but it does add to torpedo damage.
From the list... most of it is literally things that kill science ships faster, makes you immune to science, or is something a science ship cant use like hangar pets.
But lets think, is multiple subnukes and virals really better? Is saying "moderate" your fbp better? I suggested this already in OPvP "moderate your FBP, we can moderate our torps and plasma"... The only response I remember was a laugh. Then what do we see in the arena, a lot of teams of full scis from CSI... who happens to be hosting this...
So is it team once, then go try to make a private so to avoid others teaming up?
Its a good idea but this is a bias rule set.
Yah I've seen the teaming effort so far... its efficient, but if you are going to outlaw so much from one side you need to do it from both.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Not only that, back in the days before DR I was taken out a few times by FBP when trying to alphastrike a science ship.
Without plasma explosions and kemocite, sci captains will just have to rely on the old fashioned way of doing "damage", debuff the target within an inch of his life and then hit him.
Really.. 400 part gens and 500K+ (seen 700K) hits with fbp.. really? Alpha can't even do that and we are talking about a science skill as old as alpha. Can we please step back into a bit of reality... please?
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
FIRST: Id like to make it known I do know I'm just as much at fault...
Now...
Another fun one? FBP in the show only took out the EPS grid and crippled the ship, getting blown sky high never happened. Theres so much concern for "saving pvp" yet the majority is all science. What would happen if we all flew wells? this would infact fall under your "rule set" posted in this forum. Would this be better? Yet people still cant see that this is what kills the game. You have one side who can not give up FBP, usually people who can no longer fly X ship anymore, say an escort. I mean look at the names flying sci ships now... I see a lot of old escort pilots who don't want to fight fbp... doing fbp. Does this help in any way?
Then because the pro-fbp side wont drop it, you get the other pro-plasma/torpedo side that is going to fight it, and you cant just wish it away. So long as you are going to keep making these teams, using these builds its not going to work. Then to make a rule set this bias, that just is showing how strongly people are holding to this.
You will notice that I literally fly everything... You will notice that I've cut back on the plasma/torpedos unless there's a team of science out there ruining it. The point can be made that science can be a good deturant for plasma too, and ill even admit I've used it latley vs these kinds of faw teams, but to team up doing it? no that's not going to work. Every day now I've been doing an all cannon/bo match or two, and I'll keep doing it until its not doable because some ignorant team queues, may it be Plasma or FBP, or torpedos.
I've PUGed, I've always puged and it adds variety. If you are always going to win, then why play. But then comes these threads that come off too much "I need to have the game in my favor" that claim they are in the name of "balance"... yah that's not going to cut it. And that I'm going to get these responses to this as well. Before you answer it think... was it fun when half the matches were healers? Was it fun when it was all escorts? Do you want it to be all scis? We all do infact have them. They have already nerfed these issues... notice the healers still don't, and never really did have issues vs plasma faw and torpedos. If a healer can stay above 70%, I think so can a sci ship with 15-20k less hull... but instead the excuse is going to be made that its more broken to use X than Y?
You need to think of what you are defending and how many more players you want to leave the game. Remember matches that had variety? Vapers, Torpedoes, Healers, Drainers, Support, Crowd Control, PRTG, Faw, Cruisers, Zombies, Tanks, and every thing in between? What are we down to now... Torpedoes, Faw, Healers and Sci. How much more variety do we need to lose? Ive already made the suggestion that people do what they did Pre DR, pre PRTG boost, but we still rather fight that its easier to get something removed from the game, to get everyone to play by that rule.
But to be un-biased now, ill defend both.
FBP - Yes it has its usefulness, but it should be a SECONDARY ability. Healing on a sci ship, hmm that only goes to lt commander, theres your commander power.
Plasma - Notice how we all have more hull, more res? This is more of a balance for faw if its used to a ::LIMIT:: say 1 console, 2 consoles...
Torpedos - You get kemocite, they can wipe out a lot and are extremely deadly vs raw hull.
All of these are easily considered op or broken... but can we say that Plasma and Torpedoes need to be removed more because the majority of whats left of PvP are exotic damage? That's not right, and that's why many of you switched to exotic.
Please think about this, and make the change.
P.S. I'm not about to spend 20 minutes going back looking for typos, so please figure out spelling and that stuff by yourself.
Like I said earlier, the best pvp was before DR TRIBBLE, which means both new sci AND tac abilities that came after it should be regulated. Not saying we should completely eliminate some things like fbp and a2b faw builds that have been around since forever, but they need to be regulated. And the best way to do that is enforce new rules and see how those rules balance pvp matches. Things like secondary deflectors or reciprocity (which only feds get) aren't helping.
For your reference, here's what old (really old) pvp looked like, and what (in my opinion) we should eventually go back to.
In these examples, things like timing, boff configs, and piloting skills mattered. Not flying circles like a headless chicken and critting everything with kemo and neuts.
Credit for these vids goes to InnerCircleSTO and trinioler.
Twomorelevels
No restrictions on neutronic or isokinetic cannon? No restrictions on feed back pulse? No stacking limit on particle generator skill? this isn't a no bs rule set and this is why stuff like this never takes off.
The rules seem rly biased to favor sci ships (for example via allowing pilot tree and its scratch the pain lag that was stated by Cryptic as one of the biggest lag making abilities in game so help sci ships survive as its more beneficial for them then for escorts, while banning RNR as its main counter to FBP).
Nerf on more eng heavy escorts (like JHSS ect who have so many eng abiliteis that they use structural breach to not have wasted slot) to not vape kill the poor wells in 1-2 shots via its low hull value and hard torp hit.
Althrough the rest of the rules seem logical (would welcome 100% alldmg immunity and invincibility ban though as its against everything what pvp stands for).
Plasma doping ban is good as it makes shitloads of lag even when dmg is after fix decent at best.
Destabilizing Resonance Beam
The original reason was graphical lag..but I believe much of that has changed.
Plasma Explosion
With the Nerf to these consoles and the removal of the Crit/dmg reduction will these be allowed?
Structural Integrity Collapse
its debuff can now be cleared by Eng Team as of the last patch.
Also can I get an invite? Jacobs@odinforever20000
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.