Some might consider the current method to be an exploit, but it works. If Cryptic decides to shut it down, then I would hope for another method...
we already have a safe way to transfer refined dilithium between characters on an account, and it isn't considered an exploit. i'm sure there was a Dev post on it last year, or maybe the year before.. maybe @pwlaughingtrendy can confirm this so as to resolve this entire discussion, as the system we have via the dilithium exchange is more that satisfactory for our needs.
No. Because if this is ever actually looked at they will block the current method.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Vote no and first word "no" means they don't need to add what already exists.
Logic of my post = worst case scenario makes me happy therefore the method is "safe"
I seriously didn't read "ecstatic". Maybe I thought "erratic"? In any case, I'm just a poor foreign Targ, forgive me
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You know the only option I would agree to other than the current method, which offers a chance to make a profit on getting 25 dil to 1 zen, is if the Dil instead of being on a per character setup was in a spot accessible via the account so transferring was not needed. And I could simply just log in and have access to my dil all in one easy to get spot. It would also be nice to see this done to the unrefined dil, but I can see reasons why that would never happen...
After that, I would simply be putting up 25 offers in the hope that someone accidentally leaves a 0 off when posting...
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Have to wonder if this thread is little more than a ploy to draw dev attention once again to the ability to trade Dil safely between characters in the hopes of changing it...cause I can't see it serving any other purpose, which if I were still playing I'd be reluctant to post this comment; but since I'm not - I'll wonder aloud.
No. Because if this is ever actually looked at they will block the current method.
With a number of threads that has been popping up about this subject, I would not bet it is now on the Devs radar. I one for one like it when people farm alts for tons of dil, it keeps the price of dil higher, making my zen worth more.
The current "method" everyone is talking about probably isn't an exploit (I seem to recall a Dev post some time ago saying just that), but it is a "work around". I agree it's "safe" so long as you know what you're doing, but it sure as heck isn't user-friendly, intuitive, or convenient, which is why just having a bank that I can deposit-to/withdraw-from would be ideal, and is what's needed.
I would vote for Account Banks for both Refined Dil and Dil Ore, just like I have for my EC.
I doubt they'd do a Dil Ore Bank, as that would make it too easy to circumvent the daily refinement cap. Though that doesn't stop me from wishing it existed. It really is quite time we get an Account Bank for Refined Dil.
Edit to fix typo.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
You realize by bringing this to their attention you will most likely get it nerfed. They dont want you to be able to transfer it or make more then 8K a day. They want you to buy ZEN. You will be to blame if they remove the ability to transfer dilithium between toons. Thanks for putting a spotlight on it.
They have known about this since the exchange was implemented. Frankly there is no way to disable or prevent it.
At the worst, you'd be forced to buy zen, then resell it at the same price and claim the dil on a different character, which has the exact same effect as it does now, just with the annoyance of actually having to buy and sell zen/dil. And that offers no benefit to Cryptic.
It's not the refined dilithium that you need to transfer, but the raw dilithium ore. When you max a rep with a toon you have some 30K ore that will take days to refine while others are going spare. An account-wide refinery would make better sense, with the refining capacity incremented for each character.
Of course this would never be implemented as it means you'd only need to gear up one character to grind dilithium, instead of every single one that you want to do STFs with.
And another useless poll lol, as others said there is already a safe method to transfer dil. The same one that everybody uses and nobody had problems with. And still there are people voting yes.. lol.
Now if you want that the actual method change because you dont like it, thats another different thing.
I think I'm gonna go and start that "Remove Polls" poll, unless someone else has.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I don't think its possible for somone to sell you zen for 25 dil each. I think if somone input 25 dil per zen it matches them with the best offer on the dil side automatically.
Like, they would input 25 dil/zen but it would clear against a 223 dil/zen offer.
Depends on which tab they put it in...if the spread for Buy ZEN is 100-101-102-103-104 and they put buy 1 zen at 25 dil per it will just sit there on their offers window. If they put buy 1 zen at 200 or 300 or even 500 it will automatically scale down to the best price based on the current spread which for the one i posted should be 100. But of course if they go to the Sell ZEN tab and the spread is 100-101-102-103-104 (i know that it isnt actually the same as the Buy Zen window it is the 5 before or after it, i forget which). Then putting in sell 1 zen at 25 per will automatically scale it to the best price which would be 104 based on the spread. But putting in sell 1 zen at 200, 400 or 500 will make it sit there.
I'm not able to get in game right now but i tested this a few months ago. The thing about using the Dil market to transfer Dil between your own characters is that there is no instruction on how to do it. And it isnt clearly evident that the market can be used in such a manner. A simple name change of exchange balance to account balance on the Dil market interface would be nice since the one underneath it already says personal balance. Then maybe a mouseover on the exchange balance (account balance) number saying that this is shard between all characters. Then maybe another button or even another tab whose sole purpose is to do a transfer from personal to account. And all that would take is for a pop up to ask how much dil is wanting to be transferred. Then once that is done the system automates the steps that people are doing right now manually to transfer dil. I dont see why anyone would be against putting in a feature like that. Its not like it will take away from developing chapter 69 of the Iconian War storyline. Or the next un-trek like ship they had in mind. Only thing i'd be worried about, which is probably what some people are worried about, is that adding in any feature to the Dil Market interface will mess up other functionality (hey remember when they added loadouts?). If people are not wanting to see it added in because there is already a (ghetto) method of doing it right now then whatever.
All targs are forgiven in advance because targs are awesome. ^.^
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
As others have said we already have a "safe" way of moving refined dil. It is however a clunky method, and one that's not obvious to new players.
A section for dil in the account bank or just making refined dil an account wide shared pool would be better. It's just making your already existing ability to share and pool dil between characters explicit to new players and easier to use.
That said dev time isn't an infinite resource so I don't expect things to change soon. Working but clunky systems are always going to be a low priority for improvements.
If it was safe the poll wouldn't be here. Has the transfer method changed?
It's perfectly 'safe'. Again, you can keep you sell offer at 25 - and the worst that would happen is - you get some Zen (but let's be honest, that would NEVER happen as en will probably never get that cheap to buy.)
As long as you set your Dill offer way below the going rate, you'll never see it traded for Zen.
Safe method for me:
1) Set buy price at something easy to multiply (say 100 Dill when the going rate is 230+)
2) Request to buy an amount of Zen buy an amount of Zen = to what you want to transfer
3) Submit offer - then IMMEDIATELY cancel offer (Dil is put into 'bank'
4) Log in with character you want the Dil to go to - open Exchange and Withdraw All.
Done.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If it was safe the poll wouldn't be here. Has the transfer method changed?
It's perfectly 'safe'. Again, you can keep you sell offer at 25 - and the worst that would happen is - you get some Zen (but let's be honest, that would NEVER happen as en will probably never get that cheap to buy.)
As long as you set your Dill offer way below the going rate, you'll never see it traded for Zen.
Safe method for me:
1) Set buy price at something easy to multiply (say 100 Dill when the going rate is 230+)
2) Request to buy an amount of Zen buy an amount of Zen = to what you want to transfer
3) Submit offer - then IMMEDIATELY cancel offer (Dil is put into 'bank'
4) Log in with character you want the Dil to go to - open Exchange and Withdraw All.
Done.
Its only really unsafe if someone is using the wrong tab. If you are using the BUY ZEN tab then you want to put up an offer to buy XXXX number of zen, 25 dil per zen, and the total amount of dil you want to transfer. You can put 25 dil per zen, 26 dil per zen, doesnt matter the important thing is that the number you put there is lower than any of the 5 digit spread prices it is showing in the other part of the BUY ZEN window. You can even let your offer sit for minutes and hours. I've tested it on this window and i've let my offer sit there for like 5 minutes. Obviously plenty of time to hit the cancel offer button and put the dil into your exchange balance.
However if someone were to mess it up and use the SELL ZEN tab instead then putting XXXX number of zen, 25 dil per zen and the total amount of dil they want to transfer the offer will automatically sell as soon as they hit submit. It wont wait 2 seconds or 3 or 5 seconds, once you hit submit you will see it blip up on the offers window and it will disappear a split second later. You wont have time to click cancel. The price will autoadjust to the best value bases on the 5 digit spread on the SELL ZEN window and they will lose their stuff. They could buy it back but they will take a very tiny loss. Since if you look at your buy zen and sell zen window the 5 digit spread on both windows are different. One tab will say 200-201-202-203-204 but the other one will say 205-206-207-208-209.
EDIT: TLDR the important thing is to know which tab to use, either buy zen or sell zen. IMO use buy zen cause i think it defaults to that tab anyways when you open the dil market. Then as i mentioned before set the price at 25 dil per zen, change the total amount of dil to the amount you want to transfer. The amount of dil to sell will adjust based on those two values you inputted. Then submit the offer and cancel it.
Comments
we already have a safe way to transfer refined dilithium between characters on an account, and it isn't considered an exploit. i'm sure there was a Dev post on it last year, or maybe the year before.. maybe @pwlaughingtrendy can confirm this so as to resolve this entire discussion, as the system we have via the dilithium exchange is more that satisfactory for our needs.
That I can totally understabd
Reading comprehension fail.
Ecstatic = in a state of ecstasy = happy.
Vote no and first word "no" means they don't need to add what already exists.
Logic of my post = worst case scenario makes me happy therefore the method is "safe"
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I seriously didn't read "ecstatic". Maybe I thought "erratic"? In any case, I'm just a poor foreign Targ, forgive me
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After that, I would simply be putting up 25 offers in the hope that someone accidentally leaves a 0 off when posting...
Top DPS 102k
With a number of threads that has been popping up about this subject, I would not bet it is now on the Devs radar. I one for one like it when people farm alts for tons of dil, it keeps the price of dil higher, making my zen worth more.
I would vote for Account Banks for both Refined Dil and Dil Ore, just like I have for my EC.
I doubt they'd do a Dil Ore Bank, as that would make it too easy to circumvent the daily refinement cap. Though that doesn't stop me from wishing it existed. It really is quite time we get an Account Bank for Refined Dil.
Edit to fix typo.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
At the worst, you'd be forced to buy zen, then resell it at the same price and claim the dil on a different character, which has the exact same effect as it does now, just with the annoyance of actually having to buy and sell zen/dil. And that offers no benefit to Cryptic.
Of course this would never be implemented as it means you'd only need to gear up one character to grind dilithium, instead of every single one that you want to do STFs with.
Now if you want that the actual method change because you dont like it, thats another different thing.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Their has been 3 if I recall so far.
Depends on which tab they put it in...if the spread for Buy ZEN is 100-101-102-103-104 and they put buy 1 zen at 25 dil per it will just sit there on their offers window. If they put buy 1 zen at 200 or 300 or even 500 it will automatically scale down to the best price based on the current spread which for the one i posted should be 100. But of course if they go to the Sell ZEN tab and the spread is 100-101-102-103-104 (i know that it isnt actually the same as the Buy Zen window it is the 5 before or after it, i forget which). Then putting in sell 1 zen at 25 per will automatically scale it to the best price which would be 104 based on the spread. But putting in sell 1 zen at 200, 400 or 500 will make it sit there.
I'm not able to get in game right now but i tested this a few months ago. The thing about using the Dil market to transfer Dil between your own characters is that there is no instruction on how to do it. And it isnt clearly evident that the market can be used in such a manner. A simple name change of exchange balance to account balance on the Dil market interface would be nice since the one underneath it already says personal balance. Then maybe a mouseover on the exchange balance (account balance) number saying that this is shard between all characters. Then maybe another button or even another tab whose sole purpose is to do a transfer from personal to account. And all that would take is for a pop up to ask how much dil is wanting to be transferred. Then once that is done the system automates the steps that people are doing right now manually to transfer dil. I dont see why anyone would be against putting in a feature like that. Its not like it will take away from developing chapter 69 of the Iconian War storyline. Or the next un-trek like ship they had in mind. Only thing i'd be worried about, which is probably what some people are worried about, is that adding in any feature to the Dil Market interface will mess up other functionality (hey remember when they added loadouts?). If people are not wanting to see it added in because there is already a (ghetto) method of doing it right now then whatever.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
A section for dil in the account bank or just making refined dil an account wide shared pool would be better. It's just making your already existing ability to share and pool dil between characters explicit to new players and easier to use.
That said dev time isn't an infinite resource so I don't expect things to change soon. Working but clunky systems are always going to be a low priority for improvements.
Thanks cryptic to have one in first place. But we need to complain, it is the human nature.
It's perfectly 'safe'. Again, you can keep you sell offer at 25 - and the worst that would happen is - you get some Zen (but let's be honest, that would NEVER happen as en will probably never get that cheap to buy.)
As long as you set your Dill offer way below the going rate, you'll never see it traded for Zen.
Safe method for me:
1) Set buy price at something easy to multiply (say 100 Dill when the going rate is 230+)
2) Request to buy an amount of Zen buy an amount of Zen = to what you want to transfer
3) Submit offer - then IMMEDIATELY cancel offer (Dil is put into 'bank'
4) Log in with character you want the Dil to go to - open Exchange and Withdraw All.
Done.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Good idea but dont think it will happen. Logic defies STO
Its only really unsafe if someone is using the wrong tab. If you are using the BUY ZEN tab then you want to put up an offer to buy XXXX number of zen, 25 dil per zen, and the total amount of dil you want to transfer. You can put 25 dil per zen, 26 dil per zen, doesnt matter the important thing is that the number you put there is lower than any of the 5 digit spread prices it is showing in the other part of the BUY ZEN window. You can even let your offer sit for minutes and hours. I've tested it on this window and i've let my offer sit there for like 5 minutes. Obviously plenty of time to hit the cancel offer button and put the dil into your exchange balance.
However if someone were to mess it up and use the SELL ZEN tab instead then putting XXXX number of zen, 25 dil per zen and the total amount of dil they want to transfer the offer will automatically sell as soon as they hit submit. It wont wait 2 seconds or 3 or 5 seconds, once you hit submit you will see it blip up on the offers window and it will disappear a split second later. You wont have time to click cancel. The price will autoadjust to the best value bases on the 5 digit spread on the SELL ZEN window and they will lose their stuff. They could buy it back but they will take a very tiny loss. Since if you look at your buy zen and sell zen window the 5 digit spread on both windows are different. One tab will say 200-201-202-203-204 but the other one will say 205-206-207-208-209.
EDIT: TLDR the important thing is to know which tab to use, either buy zen or sell zen. IMO use buy zen cause i think it defaults to that tab anyways when you open the dil market. Then as i mentioned before set the price at 25 dil per zen, change the total amount of dil to the amount you want to transfer. The amount of dil to sell will adjust based on those two values you inputted. Then submit the offer and cancel it.
Especially here...
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