How does your main character feel about Section 31 (Provided they know they EXIST)

gradii · July 2015

Most Starfleet officers would probably not be happy at all, but this is about YOUR particular character
(who may or may not be Starfleet), what are their thoughts?

gradii · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Vice Admiral Elizabeth Angel Klein has been press ganged into working with drake before- And while she hated it, and does believe their activities to be illegal, somewhere in the back of her head she's accepted their existence, and hence her feelings are approximately:

gulberat · July 2015

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Although technically my main is Admiral Berat, it's Alyosha who has the strongest feelings about them.

Not only does he despise the Section 31 concept on the face of it, he has a major personal grudge against Franklin Drake for dragging his people into the "Spectres" incident. Not only was it bad enough that Drake gave them a holoemitter from House Duras (like he didn't know that would get them clobbered), sending an Earth-raised Devidian captain into the whole mess caused the "normal" Devidians to get really ugly and personal against Alyosha. (I have never drawn so much aggro from the Devidians as when I played "What Lies Beneath" on Alyosha...)

Which then led to the Devidians hiding a hunting party on his ship--and of course since Drake whisked them back to the 25th century without allowing Alyosha to check first, that got one of his crew killed, five injured, and him exposed for what he was in front of the five survivors when he went down there to handle the problem himself and fight off the hunting party.

If he sees Drake again, if that little worm doesn't take precautions, it is very likely to end up with Drake arrested or dead depending on the circumstances.

worffan101 · July 2015

It's illegal! Stop it immediately!

D'trel is beyond distrustful of them, as she is EXTREMELY opposed to anything resembling a State Sec. Gathering intel on enemies is fine; Tal'Shiar tactics are not.

Three likes to eat Franklin Drake's inevitable spies with mango chutney. Three is a programmed killer, after all. She's designed for it. Nothing personal, it's just that she has her job and it's business.

My Delta recruit, Sakoth, isn't fond of Section 31 and such but as long as the people who are paying him are up-front and honest he can't muster up the will to care.

My Reman-raised-Romulan character is an intel woman, but she draws the line at spying on loyal soldiers. Keeping a few feelers out to make sure nobody's selling secrets to the Tal'Shiar, sure. Outright Tal'Shiar antics and killing civilians? No.

Gul Aman Evek has a practical approach to the inevitable Obsidian Order spy and/or official commissar: Let them live, and make sure that they only see the "good" stuff. If they become an inconvenience, just have Glinn Tarak have a word with Dalin Marritza and Gil Ocett, and said spy will suffer a tragic accident with an airlock.

Captain Veronica Stadi doesn't know about section 31, but she's not fond of the Obsidian Order mole on Voyager. Even if they ARE 70,000 light-years from home...that woman gave the Kazon Federation weapons! Ok, useless weapons that were little more than an amusing way for the Kazon to kill themselves, but still! It's the principle of the thing!

Seschat · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Only to of my Feds have encountered Section 31.

Seschat's entire colony was founded by humans with agendas, so she knows to take anything Drake says with a brick of salt. However, she also considers Section 31 to be highly incompetent at what they do. She joined Starfleet while the Federation-Klingon war was raging, and if these nitwits knew what they were doing, the Empire would have collapsed into a collection of squabbling little shogunates a generation ago.

Stormhawk has even less respect for them. As a joined Trill, his symbiont offers the Long View, and has a historical perspective on Section 31's effectiveness, which appears to amount to "marginal". And since Klingon Intelligence (aka House Pugh) is doing a better job during the Iconian conflict, perhaps it is time for 31 to be decomissioned, and Drake forcibly retired.

marcusdkane · July 2015

Section 31 FTW!

Voted on behalf of Ael t'Kazanak. Romulans don't see things the same way Humans do...

gradii · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

marcusdkane wrote: »

Voted on behalf of Ael t'Kazanak. Romulans don't see things the same way Humans do...

My Republic Romulan wouldn't LIKE them, but wouldn't hate them. Section 31 may go too far sometimes, but they are NOT the Tal'shiar, Apples to Oranges.

She despises the Tal'shiar, but unsurpisingly has little opinion of Section 31 given that all most Romulans would have heard of it are rumors.

mhall85 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

I really think this should be a major story arc, post-Iconian War

themetalstickman · July 2015

Eh I don't worry about it.

So far, what I think of S31 is dependent upon who is leading it. For instance, my character would despise Sloan, but since Drake hasn't had us do anything "evil," I reserve judgement on him. I don't trust him, but neither do I hate him they way I hate Sloan.

[Deleted User] · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Eleya’s opinion is mixed. She agrees in principle with their stated motives—the Federation is and/or ought to be a strong force for good in the galaxy, and she's frequently critical of how other officers would rather hide behind the Prime Directive than take a stand against injustice outside Federation borders—and the simple fact of the matter is that you can't solve every military problem with a photon torpedo. but Section 31 goes too far: they need to be accountable.

markhawkman · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

themetalstickman wrote: »

So far, what I think of S31 is dependent upon who is leading it. For instance, my character would despise Sloan, but since Drake hasn't had us do anything "evil," I reserve judgement on him. I don't trust him, but neither do I hate him they way I hate Sloan.

Ditto, Drake is sneaky, but his motives seem to be good.

antonine3258 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Antonine's my main Fed and has so encountered them (An'riel, my Romulan who got seconded to the Feds has encountered Drake, but not in his role as a Section 31 agent). Drake definitely tried hard to recruit, but with everything going on, trying to build evidence has been way on Antonine's backburner. She's got no problem with the Federation and Starfleet having a dirty tricks division, and they do - it's Starfleet Intelligence, which is ultimately held accountable. Section 31 is a bunch of thugs who have an unwavering view of their own morality, but it's too big for her to try to deal with.

rattler2 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

My main, Krystal, does not like it, but knows that these super spies know how to cover their tracks. After that fiasco where she was "Tested" for possible recruitment, she's had a dislike for Drake and the organization.

She'll work with him if there's no other choice, but she doesn't like the idea.

marcusdkane · July 2015

Section 31 FTW!

gradii wrote: »

My Republic Romulan wouldn't LIKE them, but wouldn't hate them. Section 31 may go too far sometimes, but they are NOT the Tal'shiar, Apples to Oranges.

She despises the Tal'shiar, but unsurpisingly has little opinion of Section 31 given that all most Romulans would have heard of it are rumors.

As a MACO-trained Federation citizen and former security officer, Ael's thoughts on Section 31 tend to coincide with Colonel Jessep...

"You can’t handle the truth! …Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
- Colonel Nathan R. Jessep

She sees them as a necessary 'evil' (and not particularly evil, but justified) in defense of the Federation

mustrumridcully0 · July 2015

It's illegal! Stop it immediately!

I don't think I've made an character with questionable morals on the Fed side.

So they are pretty much all opposed. Though some would possibly work with them to gain their trust and eventually dismantle the organization with the knowledge.
I could probably see Rinara doing this the best. She has a questionable background as genetic experiment from Cardassian separatists, and could pull off the role best.

jonsills · July 2015

I play too many characters, with too many viewpoints, to enter a poll vote...

Sills was raised on Earth. He believes in the Federation and everything it stands for, and despises Section 31 in general and Franklin Drake in particular for their machinations and subterfuge. He hates secrecy in all its forms, and S31 is nothing but secrets, a 25th-Century Puzzle Palace.

Grunt regards S31 as a regrettable necessity, like the Liquidators. Somebody has to do the unpleasant things from time to time, after all. However, Drake has taken actions against Grunt's crew, starting with the Drozana incident and moving onward from there - and that Grunt does not, will not, forgive. He'd happily strap Drake to a photon torpedo and fire the pair of them at the nearest Herald cruiser.

Kehel, my Romulan/Reman crossbreed Republic commander, has heard rumors of this group, but since it doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as the Tal'Shiar, she doesn't really care. She assumes S31 is pretty similar to Klingon Intel or the Republic's own covert force (come on, you know they have one, even if they won't admit to it), rather than being like the Tal'Shiar or the Obsidian Order, and its continued existence is likely one of the things that's let those naive Feds stay alive all these centuries.

virusdancer · July 2015

Section 31 FTW!

Section 31 allows certain folks to feel better about themselves while Section 31 does the dirty work to spare the billions upon billions of lives that would otherwise be lost. They make that sacrifice so others do not have to face that choice.

mjarbar · July 2015

Section 31 FTW!

virusdancer wrote: »

Section 31 allows certain folks to feel better about themselves while Section 31 does the dirty work to spare the billions upon billions of lives that would otherwise be lost. They make that sacrifice so others do not have to face that choice.

Quoted for truth!

In any society no matter how utopian there will be elements that threaten it, face it you need us.

takeshi6 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

My characters, so far:

Takeshi has heard of them, and while their intentions are honorable, he doesn't trust them as far as he can throw them.

Nanoha is in a similar boat, though she's only heard of them in rumors, and never their actual name - just that a Starfleet Black Ops group that does things most won't.

Hayate is actually a PART of Section 31, having been raised by her adoptive uncle, who headed the organization for a time. Her fleet, Special Operations Section 6, is a Wetworks/Sledgehammer task force within the organization

Tiana is also part of S31 - after the death of her wife, she vowed to do whatever she could to ensure a peaceful future for their child (Carried by Tia, and made with help from genetic material her wife had had harvested ahead of time), and S31 is giving her the means to do that.

Veleen, my Fed-Allied Romulan, has also 'signed up' with S31 - an asset on the inside of the Republic Military, working to strengthen ties between the Republic and the Federation. She realizes it might be a 'Deal with the Devil', as the humans put it, but she'll make deals with 1000 devils if it means the safety of her people...

And that's about all for the characters I have that know about S31. Takeshi's my Main, so it's his opinion that's gone up on the poll

cptjhunter · July 2015

Franklin Drake must die.

gradii · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Reason my main doesn't like them is I wanted her to have that slightly naive aspect of the federation about her, well meaning explorers who don't always accomplish the results they expected from their good intentions.

She's also got doubts about the prime directive in some situations, I mean just about every captain in the shows had to bend the rules in some situations. She's not going to allow or make her crew walk peacefully to their deaths because of it for instance.

It's generally a good idea not to interfere in things you don't fully understand, but sometimes interfering does result in a superior outcome.

oldravenman3025 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Most of my Starfleet characters don't much care for Section 31 as an agency. But unlike Starfleet Intelligence, Section 31 gets TRIBBLE done.

So, they're in the "necessary evil" camp when it comes to Section 31. If things in the galaxy were all sunshine and rose pedals, then they wouldn't be needed. But it's not. And for now, they're here to stay.

warmaker001b · July 2015

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Section 31 is the stupidest, copout plot device of Star Trek. Section 31's absurdity and plot convenience make the aspects of time travel seem perfectly fine and natural.

tehbubbaloo · July 2015

section 31 merely reveals starfleet for what it really is, and its existence is a tacit admission that the entire ethos they base their pr on is utter tripe.

alexmakepeace · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

Makepeace doesn't trust Section 31 because they act without accountability, and that's always dangerous, but while they call on him to break rules, they haven't asked him to do anything overtly wrong. Given the opportunity, he would willingly take on missions like the Specters series without S31's involvement. We the forumites know all about the nasty things S31 is into, but in-universe the organization is a secret. There are probably rumors floating around, but Makepeace has no way to corroborate them, so he can only judge what he sees them do directly.

artan42 · July 2015

Section 31 FTW!

Considering one of my mains uses S31 to do their really dirty work, I'm sure the're fine with it.

cmdrscarlet · July 2015

Eh I don't worry about it.

For Kathryn I can sum it up in one word: meh.

She is more frustrated when having to deal with them because she does not care for things "Temporal". Otherwise, out-of-sight = out-of-mind.

worffan101 · July 2015

It's illegal! Stop it immediately!

Personally, I think that Section 31 crosses the line between security and a Tal'Shiar style State Sec. Gathering intel on enemy forces, figuring out their troop movements, trying to start cultural change by proxy, even keeping an eye on your own people to make sure nobody's turned traitor...within reason, these are OK.

But there needs to be accountability, to the people and to the government.

Starfleet Intelligence already exists, fills these roles, and is accountable to Starfleet Command and the President of the Federation (and through that person, the people of the UFP). Section 31 goes way beyond the pale in what they do, up to and including attempted genocide, and fundamentally is not accountable. That's why it needs to go.

ryan218 · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

My character acknowledges the need for a black-ops intelligence division, but he has a strong belief in liberty and, more importantly, accountability. S31 take actions which contravene Federation law to protect the timeline; fair enough, Ryan bent the rules in one of my fanfics by negotiating a ceasefire with the Klingons. But he knew he could be held to account for his actions - Section 31 acts with impunity and without anyone to hold them to account for their actions, and when dealing with any security force, that's dangerous.

angrytarg · July 2015

All my characters would oppose the glorified redneck militia in their ways. My feds would take out th organization and bring their operatives to court and my Klingons/Klingulan would destroy them (probably even in self-defense considering as non-humans they are the enemy of S31) because they wouldn't trust UFP authorities to properly handle the matter anyway.

RP, of course. STO makes sure that "actually" all our charcters will do as S31 says every single time and again and again and again...

[Deleted User] · July 2015

Looks like they're here to stay, but I do NOT have to like it.

StarSword-C wrote: »

Eleya’s opinion is mixed. She agrees in principle with their stated motives—the Federation is and/or ought to be a strong force for good in the galaxy, and she's frequently critical of how other officers would rather hide behind the Prime Directive than take a stand against injustice outside Federation borders—and the simple fact of the matter is that you can't solve every military problem with a photon torpedo. but Section 31 goes too far: they need to be accountable.

Let me make an addendum in light of a fic I'm writing for one of the ULC prompts. It is not the job of the military to create policy. That duty belongs to the citizenry through their duly elected representatives: the military executes policy. Now, the military can certainly advise on policy, and at the ballot box the military and the citizenry are one and the same (in the sense that military personnel are also citizens). But some lines should not be crossed.

The dirty tricks are not the problem: that's a fact of international relations. They're regrettable and horrible, but with the exception of attempted genocide of the Founders they're also necessary. The problem with Section 31, and with Admiral Leyton's actions in "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost", and, yes, Marcus, with Col. Jessup's actions in A Few Good Men, is that they have crossed the line from carrying out policy to attempting to create it. They have forgotten their place as servants of the people. So have many politicians, but it's more dangerous when the military or the intelligence community does it because it is their job to use violence or the threat of violence, meaning they have the tools to do a lot more damage.

Dealing with the dirty tricks squads of other governments is the province of the officially recognized and accountable agency Starfleet Intelligence, not a rogue group of self-entitled operatives who are above the law.

How does your main character feel about Section 31 (Provided they know they EXIST)

How does your main character feel about Section 31 (Provided they know they EXIST) 41 votes

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