Food for thought on Star Trek: Voyager

xathanael · June 2015

So, I've been re-watching the Voyager Series, when something caught my attention.

But first let go back to basics a little:

They are transported 70.000 light-years away from home. And supposedly it would take them 70 years, give or take to get back. SOOOO.....here's where it gets a bit interesting:

Episode Reference: Season 4 Epidose 26 Hope & Fear

In this episode, they come across the Fake Federation Ship thats supposed to take them home. In the first 10 minutes of the episode, the ship takes the Away-Team "Over 15 Light-years from where they started, before they can shut down the engines"
Subsequent scene opens with Janeway saying that at "High warp, it takes them TWO days to reach the ship" TWO DAYS TO GO 15 Light-years.

So...lets do some basic math.. 15 light years divided by 2 is 7.5 So, 7.5 light years a day, simple enough ( I'm not going to take into consideration all their meet-and greets, or supply replenishment stops, just sticking with the basics)

So, if we were to say that they can travel 7.5 light years a day, multiply that by 365 we get 2,737.5 light years travel'ed in one year.
With me so far? Good now...

70,000/2,737.5=25.57

That's 25 1/2 years that it would take to get back.
Think about that.....

So....sorry, but even with meet and greets with new race's, resupplying the ship, all that won't add an extra 45 years to the journey...just saying lol

Sorry, never noticed that before now.

Your thoughts?

worffan101 · June 2015

Voyager's writing team was lazy and not very talented. Even the writers they brought over from DS9 in season 5 saw that.

Watch the Definitive VOY Torpedo Count on YouTube, it's hilarious.

tomaswille · June 2015

Lol i see what you did there.

Anyway i have no clue. I have seen the complete seasons years ago.
Did they still say it was a 70 year travel in season 4 ( or beyond)? If so, you are right.
If not, perhaps they had created a more efficient warp engine, by the help from 7 of 9, Allies etc?

What ever it is, still liked the series

xathanael · June 2015

Yes, I've seen the Torpedo Count vid, but for the most part, that can be more or less explained. Especially with other race's they encountered that had torpedo technology....though granted torpedo trading was never shown so yea....

As for 7's help, and even some of the galactic map updates they got from Starfleet via the Pathfinder Project, only knocked off a grand total of 10-15 years, more or less.

Can't remember the exact episode, but I believe it was one of the beginning episodes of season 4 when 7 re-plot's a course using the upgraded modifications to Astrometrics and it only shaved off about 5 (?) years.

And of course Kes's 9.5 years closer when she tossed them 9500 Light years in "The Gift"

But anywho...yea, the writer's weren't that great sadly, which is why Janeway became "Captain Bipolar" not really her fault, but the writer's

markhawkman · June 2015

In the defense of the writers.... this probably doesn't represent flying at top speed. It likely represents the best sustainable speed. They probably didn't have enough fuel to go directly there anyways.

jonsills · June 2015

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

Yes, I've seen the Torpedo Count vid, but for the most part, that can be more or less explained. Especially with other race's they encountered that had torpedo technology....though granted torpedo trading was never shown so yea....

As well as the fact that Janeway said, on more than one occasion, that they had "no way to get more". Two such occasions come up in the video - both her initial pronouncement, and one of the combat scenes during which she notes, "They may have torpedoes to waste, we don't."

Reportedly, that was what drove Ron Moore away from VOY (and informed a lot of his concepts for nBSG) - we are told that he kept track of the dwindling supplies, then came to Berman and Braga with a script proposal about how they were going to remedy the shortages, only to be told, "This is Star Trek - we don't worry about that."

And if they're not going to worry about running out of torpedoes and shuttlecraft, they're sure not going to worry about keeping travel times consistent...

gulberat · June 2015

jonsills wrote: »

Reportedly, that was what drove Ron Moore away from VOY (and informed a lot of his concepts for nBSG) - we are told that he kept track of the dwindling supplies, then came to Berman and Braga with a script proposal about how they were going to remedy the shortages, only to be told, "This is Star Trek - we don't worry about that."

And if they're not going to worry about running out of torpedoes and shuttlecraft, they're sure not going to worry about keeping travel times consistent...

Oh my goodness. I had always assumed they never had a tracking spreadsheet in the first place. Finding out they were told to *stop* tracking when they *had* been doing so...that really makes my disappointment much worse.

With nuBSG, one of the things that made me want to watch was that they set the right tone immediately in every episode: the infamous Survivor Count was a clear signal right up front that even if not everything was perfect, someone was making an effort and *paying attention.*

kojirohellfire · June 2015

Plus, this particular trope was always in effect in Voyager's script-writing offices.

tomaswille · June 2015

Sometimes i don't get it tho, it's fine that there are fans. Even hardcore fans of startrek. Or any franchise at all.
Also really cool that people spend really much time in the anatomy behind startrek. And since startrek has one of the most loyal fan base of any tv-show *ever*, it sure proofs how much of an impact it has when fans decided to strike.
I loved the number cruncing here, also proving the average startrek watcher are bright philosofers.
But come on... Disliking or be dissapointed because a tv-show arent doing their details correctly, or there are some struggles behind the scenes? Sometimes details are purposely done wrong, just to maintain a certain story. It could be rewritten to get all details right, but that CAN alter the story in such a way, people aren't watching anymore.

It is a business. Tv is making money.

I remember William Shatner's "Get a life" video. It was comedy, but i there was a true message in it.

I consider myself not a Trekkie / Trekker, but just a fan of the show. And i can totally respect people that are committed. But they are making themselves to difficult by analysing every bit of detail, and why it is wrong, or why it is good. But i think this needs a complete different topic.

warmaker001b · June 2015

worffan101 wrote: »

Voyager's writing team was lazy and not very talented. Even the writers they brought over from DS9 in season 5 saw that.

Watch the Definitive VOY Torpedo Count on YouTube, it's hilarious.

The premise for VOY was, IMO, outstanding, what I thought could have been the BEST starting idea for a Star Trek show. I was all aboard for it when it started: A Starfleet vessel stuck out in the far away Delta Quadrant and it would take a lifetime to get home. No immediate friends. No Starfleet to call. No Starfleet vessels to count as a friend. No friendly Starfleet Starbases to resupply and repair Voyager. No replacement crewmen. Sharing boatspace with former enemies (Chakotay's Maquis). Voyager though technically advanced, was no powerhouse ship like a Galaxy-class. Lots of unfriendly or hostile people to come across on the way home. Lots of people that want Voyager's technology.

Voyager, Captain Janeway and her crew are stuck far away from home with zero friends, zero support. How do they get home?

The show completely failed to live up that ideal. I never for once thought they were isolated, alone, because the ship always was in tip-top shape. No shortage of Photon Torpedoes it seems. In short, they never looked or acted isolated and desperate. It always looked like Voyager topped off for supplies and repairs at a local Starfleet base in between every episode.

kojirohellfire · June 2015

tomaswille wrote: »

Sometimes i don't get it tho, it's fine that there are fans. Even hardcore fans of startrek. Or any franchise at all.
Also really cool that people spend really much time in the anatomy behind startrek. And since startrek has one of the most loyal fan base of any tv-show *ever*, it sure proofs how much of an impact it has when fans decided to strike.
I loved the number cruncing here, also proving the average startrek watcher are bright philosofers.
But come on... Disliking or be dissapointed because a tv-show arent doing their details correctly, or there are some struggles behind the scenes? Sometimes details are purposely done wrong, just to maintain a certain story. It could be rewritten to get all details right, but that CAN alter the story in such a way, people aren't watching anymore.

It is a business. Tv is making money.

I remember William Shatner's "Get a life" video. It was comedy, but i there was a true message in it.

I consider myself not a Trekkie / Trekker, but just a fan of the show. And i can totally respect people that are committed. But they are making themselves to difficult by analysing every bit of detail, and why it is wrong, or why it is good. But i think this needs a complete different topic.

"Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment." - Lt. Colonel Cameron Mitchell, Stargate: SG-1 "200"

mhall85 · June 2015

worffan101 wrote: »

Voyager's writing team was lazy and not very talented. Even the writers they brought over from DS9 in season 5 saw that.

Yep, which is why I'm not forgiving Brannon Braga, like other voices in the fan base want to do now (apparently... what's up with that, BTW?!).

While he certainly wasn't alone, he's partially responsible for the missteps of Voyager, Enterprise, and the lame death of James T. Kirk. He's a one-trick pony, and can find some degree of success with certain stories... but, one can't deny the utter lack of care the franchise fell into with this guy partially at the helm of it. No amount of hand-wringing, "revisits" of Enterprise, or convention talk of "what could have been" will change that.

/mini-rant

lilchibiclari · June 2015

To get back to the question asked in the original post regarding the top speed discrepancy, there are multiple speeds that can be considered to be the "top speed" for a ship. There is the maximum unlimited cruising speed (i.e. speed that can be maintained until fuel runs out), which is probably the speed that was used to calculate the "seventy years" timeframe. A ship can however push its engines into the "red zone" to go faster, but this means that the mean time between overhauls is reduced due to extra stress, plus the engines can overheat, etc. For example, the Galaxy Class is rated to go at Warp 9.2 for a twelve-hour period, but can go Warp 9.6 in an extreme emergency (with the computer automatically shutting down the engines after ten minutes unless the commanding officer overrides). The "fifteen light years in two days" figure thus is probably with Voyager traveling at the maximum speed that can be sustained for 48 hours, which is higher than the speed that can be sustained indefinitely.

rattler2 · June 2015

lilchibiclari wrote: »

To get back to the question asked in the original post regarding the top speed discrepancy, there are multiple speeds that can be considered to be the "top speed" for a ship. There is the maximum unlimited cruising speed (i.e. speed that can be maintained until fuel runs out), which is probably the speed that was used to calculate the "seventy years" timeframe. A ship can however push its engines into the "red zone" to go faster, but this means that the mean time between overhauls is reduced due to extra stress, plus the engines can overheat, etc. For example, the Galaxy Class is rated to go at Warp 9.2 for a twelve-hour period, but can go Warp 9.6 in an extreme emergency (with the computer automatically shutting down the engines after ten minutes unless the commanding officer overrides). The "fifteen light years in two days" figure thus is probably with Voyager traveling at the maximum speed that can be sustained for 48 hours, which is higher than the speed that can be sustained indefinitely.

Voyager also had Variable Geometry Warp Nacelles, which allowed for longer times at max warp. Don't forget the Intrepid class is more advanced than the Galaxy class Enterprise-D was. Also, being a smaller ship, its possible that the Intrepid class can maintain faster speeds for longer without putting as much stress on its systems.

Comparing an older class to a newer one doesn't quite work out as you have to consider advances in technology. I think there was at least 10 years between the launch of the Galaxy class and the launch of the Intrepid class, as if I remember correctly Voyager disappeared in 2371, and in Generations, Geordi said that the joke Data "just got" was from 10 years ago during the Farpoint mission.

artan42 · June 2015

If both Enterprise and Voyager had have stuck to their original mandates as 'DS9 stranded in space' and 'DS9 on the Fronter' they really could have been remembered. We might even still have ST on the air now.

mirrorchaos · June 2015

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

So, I've been re-watching the Voyager Series, when something caught my attention.

But first let go back to basics a little:

They are transported 70.000 light-years away from home. And supposedly it would take them 70 years, give or take to get back. SOOOO.....here's where it gets a bit interesting:

Episode Reference: Season 4 Epidose 26 Hope & Fear

In this episode, they come across the Fake Federation Ship thats supposed to take them home. In the first 10 minutes of the episode, the ship takes the Away-Team "Over 15 Light-years from where they started, before they can shut down the engines"
Subsequent scene opens with Janeway saying that at "High warp, it takes them TWO days to reach the ship" TWO DAYS TO GO 15 Light-years.

So...lets do some basic math.. 15 light years divided by 2 is 7.5 So, 7.5 light years a day, simple enough ( I'm not going to take into consideration all their meet-and greets, or supply replenishment stops, just sticking with the basics)

So, if we were to say that they can travel 7.5 light years a day, multiply that by 365 we get 2,737.5 light years travel'ed in one year.
With me so far? Good now...

70,000/2,737.5=25.57

That's 25 1/2 years that it would take to get back.
Think about that.....

So....sorry, but even with meet and greets with new race's, resupplying the ship, all that won't add an extra 45 years to the journey...just saying lol

Sorry, never noticed that before now.

Your thoughts?

voyager cut across half the quadrant by use of a borg transwarp coil providing in excess of 10,000 light years. 10 years there.
kes providing another 9,500 lightyears. thats 19 years and a half.
during one of janeways logs, she stated that almost 10 years was taken off by the aborted QSD trip before it was dismantled. thats around 30 years taken off by those events alone.

the rest of the journey was convential power of the warp drive, the problem with your thought on the subject is that you are thinking full warp 10 where you are basing your thoughts on, but a starship can only maintain such warp speeds for so long before they would have to reduce speed or stop. and voyager on average needed supplies every other month, which means making detours to find food, drink, power supplies, other chemicals, metals and gasses. then there are the hirogen episodes that did extreme damage to voyager before they left the ship a mess with burned out decks because of holographic explosives covering multiple decks. stuff like that would of significantally slowed voyager down, while adding time to the journey.

i think by the time they found their way to the transwarp hub they were probably just over half way through the delta quadrant and about 20 years from the beta quadrant border. if things played out the way janeway would of wanted it would of been 20 years travel home by conventional means, loosing chakotay and 22 others before they get home.

but that still wouldnt account for the 20+ missing years.

xathanael · June 2015

mirrorchaos wrote: »

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

So, I've been re-watching the Voyager Series, when something caught my attention.

But first let go back to basics a little:

They are transported 70.000 light-years away from home. And supposedly it would take them 70 years, give or take to get back. SOOOO.....here's where it gets a bit interesting:

Episode Reference: Season 4 Epidose 26 Hope & Fear

In this episode, they come across the Fake Federation Ship thats supposed to take them home. In the first 10 minutes of the episode, the ship takes the Away-Team "Over 15 Light-years from where they started, before they can shut down the engines"
Subsequent scene opens with Janeway saying that at "High warp, it takes them TWO days to reach the ship" TWO DAYS TO GO 15 Light-years.

So...lets do some basic math.. 15 light years divided by 2 is 7.5 So, 7.5 light years a day, simple enough ( I'm not going to take into consideration all their meet-and greets, or supply replenishment stops, just sticking with the basics)

So, if we were to say that they can travel 7.5 light years a day, multiply that by 365 we get 2,737.5 light years travel'ed in one year.
With me so far? Good now...

70,000/2,737.5=25.57

That's 25 1/2 years that it would take to get back.
Think about that.....

So....sorry, but even with meet and greets with new race's, resupplying the ship, all that won't add an extra 45 years to the journey...just saying lol

Sorry, never noticed that before now.

Your thoughts?

voyager cut across half the quadrant by use of a borg transwarp coil providing in excess of 10,000 light years. 10 years there.

kes providing another 9,500 lightyears. thats 19 years and a half.

during one of janeways logs, she stated that almost 10 years was taken off by the aborted QSD trip before it was dismantled. thats around 30 years taken off by those events alone.

the rest of the journey was convential power of the warp drive, the problem with your thought on the subject is that you are thinking full warp 10 where you are basing your thoughts on, but a starship can only maintain such warp speeds for so long before they would have to reduce speed or stop. and voyager on average needed supplies every other month, which means making detours to find food, drink, power supplies, other chemicals, metals and gasses. then there are the hirogen episodes that did extreme damage to voyager before they left the ship a mess with burned out decks because of holographic explosives covering multiple decks. stuff like that would of significantally slowed voyager down, while adding time to the journey.

i think by the time they found their way to the transwarp hub they were probably just over half way through the delta quadrant and about 20 years from the beta quadrant border. if things played out the way janeway would of wanted it would of been 20 years travel home by conventional means, loosing chakotay and 22 others before they get home.

but that still wouldnt account for the 20+ missing years.

You miss read.

"At Voyager's top speed (NOT SLIP STREAM OR TRANSWARP) it took 2 days to get to the Dauntless" As in Warp 9.5-9.97 Not warp 10 (which in that particular episode warp 10 threshold was all points in the universe at once), or slipstream or transwarp.

I'm just saying, that if you were to base it off that particular episode, at Voyager's top speed, going a little over 15 Lightyears in 2 days (7.5 lightyears a day), that's 2,737.5 Lightyear's they can travel in a year (if you were to assume that they could maintain top speed for that long which they can't, or have to resupply)

Voyager's top speed in the Episode "Relativity" was stated as Warp 9.975'ish

So if they were to theoretically maintain top speed for the entire journey, no stops, it would ONLY take 25 1/2 years.

Though I can see an extra say...5 years for slight detour's, resupply, and refueling needs. Not 45 years.

And yes, I know, CONTINUITY in the show's went somewhat out the door a long long time ago, I just thought it was a little bit of an interesting thing to think about.

Almost forgot, it took the DAUNTLESS what, 2-5 min to go the 15 Lightyears, not two days like it took Voyager

gradii · June 2015

worffan101 wrote: »

Voyager's writing team was lazy and not very talented. Even the writers they brought over from DS9 in season 5 saw that.

Watch the Definitive VOY Torpedo Count on YouTube, it's hilarious.

HA I actually discovered that on my own a couple days ago. it WAS hillarious.

mirrorchaos · June 2015

i found a few additional mentions after running though my head during the motor racing.

the graviton catapult, q being generous and the void wormhole all of which took additional years off anywhere from 7-10 years depending how generous q was.
that just left under 10 years left when working out additionals. its now starting to make a little more sense. but still a little far fetched

.

mhall85 · June 2015

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

mirrorchaos wrote: »

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

So, I've been re-watching the Voyager Series, when something caught my attention.

But first let go back to basics a little:

They are transported 70.000 light-years away from home. And supposedly it would take them 70 years, give or take to get back. SOOOO.....here's where it gets a bit interesting:

Episode Reference: Season 4 Epidose 26 Hope & Fear

In this episode, they come across the Fake Federation Ship thats supposed to take them home. In the first 10 minutes of the episode, the ship takes the Away-Team "Over 15 Light-years from where they started, before they can shut down the engines"
Subsequent scene opens with Janeway saying that at "High warp, it takes them TWO days to reach the ship" TWO DAYS TO GO 15 Light-years.

So...lets do some basic math.. 15 light years divided by 2 is 7.5 So, 7.5 light years a day, simple enough ( I'm not going to take into consideration all their meet-and greets, or supply replenishment stops, just sticking with the basics)

So, if we were to say that they can travel 7.5 light years a day, multiply that by 365 we get 2,737.5 light years travel'ed in one year.
With me so far? Good now...

70,000/2,737.5=25.57

That's 25 1/2 years that it would take to get back.
Think about that.....

So....sorry, but even with meet and greets with new race's, resupplying the ship, all that won't add an extra 45 years to the journey...just saying lol

Sorry, never noticed that before now.

Your thoughts?

voyager cut across half the quadrant by use of a borg transwarp coil providing in excess of 10,000 light years. 10 years there.

kes providing another 9,500 lightyears. thats 19 years and a half.

during one of janeways logs, she stated that almost 10 years was taken off by the aborted QSD trip before it was dismantled. thats around 30 years taken off by those events alone.

the rest of the journey was convential power of the warp drive, the problem with your thought on the subject is that you are thinking full warp 10 where you are basing your thoughts on, but a starship can only maintain such warp speeds for so long before they would have to reduce speed or stop. and voyager on average needed supplies every other month, which means making detours to find food, drink, power supplies, other chemicals, metals and gasses. then there are the hirogen episodes that did extreme damage to voyager before they left the ship a mess with burned out decks because of holographic explosives covering multiple decks. stuff like that would of significantally slowed voyager down, while adding time to the journey.

i think by the time they found their way to the transwarp hub they were probably just over half way through the delta quadrant and about 20 years from the beta quadrant border. if things played out the way janeway would of wanted it would of been 20 years travel home by conventional means, loosing chakotay and 22 others before they get home.

but that still wouldnt account for the 20+ missing years.

You miss read.

"At Voyager's top speed (NOT SLIP STREAM OR TRANSWARP) it took 2 days to get to the Dauntless" As in Warp 9.5-9.97 Not warp 10 (which in that particular episode warp 10 threshold was all points in the universe at once), or slipstream or transwarp.

I'm just saying, that if you were to base it off that particular episode, at Voyager's top speed, going a little over 15 Lightyears in 2 days (7.5 lightyears a day), that's 2,737.5 Lightyear's they can travel in a year (if you were to assume that they could maintain top speed for that long which they can't, or have to resupply)

Voyager's top speed in the Episode "Relativity" was stated as Warp 9.975'ish

So if they were to theoretically maintain top speed for the entire journey, no stops, it would ONLY take 25 1/2 years.

Though I can see an extra say...5 years for slight detour's, resupply, and refueling needs. Not 45 years.

And yes, I know, CONTINUITY in the show's went somewhat out the door a long long time ago, I just thought it was a little bit of an interesting thing to think about.

Almost forgot, it took the DAUNTLESS what, 2-5 min to go the 15 Lightyears, not two days like it took Voyager

Also, I believe Janeway's speech at the end of "Caretaker" started with "Even at maximum warp...", which implies that it would take LONGER than 75 years if they didn't maintain that maximum speed... in other words, 75 years was implied to be the FASTEST they would be able to get home (before any shortcuts, obviously).

So, yes, the math does not hold up... and kinda feeds into the "Warlord Janeway" motif too, LOL... IT WAS HER PLAN ALL ALONG, MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

jonsills · June 2015

Tomas, it's science fiction - or at least it pretends to be. And one constant in SF fandom is that we will nitpick the bejeezus out of any inconsistencies, especially inconsistencies in the parts we're supposed to have to accept because they're fictional. You want to posit a stardrive, great, part of a grand tradition (because it's a lot harder to write interstellar SF with sublight speeds). But when you define how your drive works, you'd best stick to what you've established, 'cause we'll catch you cheating. (If you're good, you never define it at all - Straczynski, in writing Babylon 5, very carefully never established realspace-equivalent speeds for hyperspace travel. When asked at a con how fast his ships went, he said, "They move at the speed of plot.")

tomaswille · June 2015

jonsills wrote: »

Tomas, it's science fiction - or at least it pretends to be. And one constant in SF fandom is that we will nitpick the bejeezus out of any inconsistencies, especially inconsistencies in the parts we're supposed to have to accept because they're fictional. You want to posit a stardrive, great, part of a grand tradition (because it's a lot harder to write interstellar SF with sublight speeds). But when you define how your drive works, you'd best stick to what you've established, 'cause we'll catch you cheating. (If you're good, you never define it at all - Straczynski, in writing Babylon 5, very carefully never established realspace-equivalent speeds for hyperspace travel. When asked at a con how fast his ships went, he said, "They move at the speed of plot.")

Like i said, i totally respect you for doing so. Just like the OP, you try to find detail and make sure it follows the same way. However are you actually dissapointed? Disliking a serie just because of imperfections? Isn't it just cool that you found those details? Did you stopped watching after the first episode where you saw imperfections? Or did you continue watching, looking for other details? Because that doesn't sound like dissapointment. It's sounds eager.
My point is, i just cannot understand why fans get "mad", "dissapointed" just because of these things. Like the same way i don't understand why fans questioning an actor on a Q&A about their choices on being a "captain". I hope they understand it's an actor that is following a script? But that is not related to this issue.

lilchibiclari · June 2015

nikolaivladikov wrote: »

You miss read.

"At Voyager's top speed (NOT SLIP STREAM OR TRANSWARP) it took 2 days to get to the Dauntless" As in Warp 9.5-9.97 Not warp 10 (which in that particular episode warp 10 threshold was all points in the universe at once), or slipstream or transwarp.

I'm just saying, that if you were to base it off that particular episode, at Voyager's top speed, going a little over 15 Lightyears in 2 days (7.5 lightyears a day), that's 2,737.5 Lightyear's they can travel in a year (if you were to assume that they could maintain top speed for that long which they can't, or have to resupply)

Voyager's top speed in the Episode "Relativity" was stated as Warp 9.975'ish

So if they were to theoretically maintain top speed for the entire journey, no stops, it would ONLY take 25 1/2 years.

Though I can see an extra say...5 years for slight detour's, resupply, and refueling needs. Not 45 years.

And yes, I know, CONTINUITY in the show's went somewhat out the door a long long time ago, I just thought it was a little bit of an interesting thing to think about.

Almost forgot, it took the DAUNTLESS what, 2-5 min to go the 15 Lightyears, not two days like it took Voyager

Again, absolute maximum speed is not the same as maximum sustainable cruising speed. For relatively short periods, a starship can do the equivalent of flying with full afterburners on, which is how Voyager could travel 7-8 light years per day for 15 light years (nearly 3 kilo-cochranes) as compared to its sustainable long-term cruise speed which is just over one-third of that. Compare it to how a fighter jet can exceed Mach 3 on afterburner but normally cruises just under Mach 1.

jeffel82 · July 2015

tomaswille wrote: »

My point is, i just cannot understand why fans get "mad", "dissapointed" just because of these things.

There's a problem when it comes to Voyager, though: being far from home with limited resources and a crew that doesn't get along is integral to the premise of the series. It was written in as the major "hook" from episode one, and basically ignored beginning with episode two. That's a problem.

We all know that every ST series has consistency issues. Unfortunately, the writers of Voyager set up their show in such a way that consistency was extremely important to the internal logic of the show, and then they just...didn't bother. It's irresponsible storytelling.

jonsills · July 2015

jeffel82 wrote: »

tomaswille wrote: »

My point is, i just cannot understand why fans get "mad", "dissapointed" just because of these things.

There's a problem when it comes to Voyager, though: being far from home with limited resources and a crew that doesn't get along is integral to the premise of the series. It was written in as the major "hook" from episode one, and basically ignored beginning with episode two. That's a problem.

The sheer laziness of the rest of their writing didn't help. Okay, the Kazon are Space Barbarians, cruising around in stolen ships while still being tribal. But if they're lacking for water with starships they're not just ill-educated, they're stupid - too stupid to reliably operate a wooden match, much less a spacecraft. Even a "barbarian" can figure out that when you melt ice, you get water. And it is literally the single most common chemical compound in the universe. You can find interstellar clouds of water vapor, for screaming out loud! (And of alcohol, in case you need a mixer for your water...)

Science fiction must respect the "science" part, or it's just random fantasy. (As opposed to good fantasy, which is internally consistent even, perhaps especially, when dealing with the impossible.)

worffan101 · July 2015

Ahh, the Kazon...I still remember that episode where they required a foreign military adviser to perform the pincer maneuver, something that even FISH regularly perform successfully...and the time they killed themselves with a replicator...

Man, the Kazon were just an embarrassment to warp-capable species in general. Plus they had some really unfortunate racist implications.

lilchibiclari · July 2015

reyan01 wrote: »

And here we are, in STO, covering the portion of the Delta Quadrant that we have access to in mere minutes.

That's more gameplay and story segregation--it also takes only minutes to go from Sol to Bajor to Qo'noS and back again, while in the Star Trek universe it would take a couple of weeks. Likewise, in story terms, the region that we are operating in within the Delta Quadrant is supposed to represent a zone that is weeks across at normal warp speed.

worffan101 wrote: »

Man, the Kazon were just an embarrassment to warp-capable species in general. Plus they had some really unfortunate racist implications.

That would probably be why they are the only warp-capable species known to have been rejected for assimilation by the Borg Collective.

markhawkman · July 2015

actually the Borg have assimilated PRE-warp civs.... so yeah, the Kazon are a special sort of pathetic if the Borg think more highly of pre-warp races

worffan101 · July 2015

markhawkman wrote: »

actually the Borg have assimilated PRE-warp civs.... so yeah, the Kazon are a special sort of pathetic if the Borg think more highly of pre-warp races

Precisely.

If the Borg say "no, thanks, assimilating you could only degrade the Collective"--man, that's humiliating.

Food for thought on Star Trek: Voyager

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