Outdated Level 60 Tactical Captain needs advice to get him competetive at Elite.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

Hi, I have a level 60 Tactical Human Fleet Admiral who is my main character back from when I started played at free to play launch. Since Delta Rising my character has become un-competitive in Elite and Advanced ( This was to be expected with the level cap increase)

My character hoards a load of sets for both space and ground plus ships. Some sets are incomplete others are not. I have taken screenshots for those who can help so you can see what I am currently/ what I have and advice on what is not/what should go in the trash and what i should invest in.

Images so you can see what I have got currently/ships/character/equipment e.t.c

reginamala78 · June 2015

Honestly gear-wise you look okay. I mean sure newer stuff is always shinier (the new Iconian rep stuff is pure power creep) but its not like the Nukara set or RomPlas weapons are garbage. As for ships, again new stuff is Moar Powah with a price tag (traits in particular) but you still have some worthwhile platforms like the Gal-X, Chel Grett, Samsar, or even some creative things you can do with the Dyson or Sarr Theln, and I can guess you're currently farming up a Nandi on top. If you're gonna buy a T6 ship we know the updated Avenger is coming shortly and has a powerful trait and will probably be on sale, but thats probably more shiny extra rather than critical equipment. Layout what you already have in the right setup and I'm sure you can do plenty of deeps. But I don't think you really need to invest in anything.

For skills, a respec might not be a bad idea though, since you seem to have a lot of wasted points on maxed stuff that isn't worth pushing past 3 and other empty stuff where 6-9 isn't a bad idea. I won't go into details because personally I believe in flexibility where as people that like Elite-level stuff go more for specialization, but I'm thinking we'd nontheless agree that a respec token would be a good choice.

cearav · June 2015

I agree with the poster above me. I would say your skills are the problem. If it were me I would put no more than 6 points in more than 1 or 2 skills. You are missing almost everything tier 4 or 5. There are a lot of skills there that would help you greatly in my opinion.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

Thanks for the reply's guys^ Like you say Cearav, I am missing skill points in key area's. What should I do about ship equipment/personal sets that aren't complete or the stuff in my bank and inventory e.t.c any stuff that you would recycle?

gavinruneblade · June 2015

I also agree with reginamala, its good advice. But first the question has to be asked, do you really mean elite? Because there are a few elite queues that are not particularly hard, but to really be doing most of the elites, especially the hard ones (like hive space etc) well, there's a small group of people who focus on those.

Advanced is no biggie and you look pretty well off to go for advanced.

I'd personally bump the chel grett to t5u and run that, or the sar theln and run that until I knew for sure what style and build to go for.

The current flavor of the month is the iconian set (all but core or even all four with core but only if you can afford to upgrade the core to mark 14 elite). The previous hotness was nukara deflector & shield plus romulan engines with a spire core. The assimilated Borg deflector &engine with fleet shield and spire core is also a solid performer. I suspect you could assemble one of those setups without much trouble. The iconian is the most expensive, since you'd be starting from scratch.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

gavinruneblade wrote: »

I also agree with reginamala, its good advice. But first the question has to be asked, do you really mean elite? Because there are a few elite queues that are not particularly hard, but to really be doing most of the elites, especially the hard ones (like hive space etc) well, there's a small group of people who focus on those.

Advanced is no biggie and you look pretty well off to go for advanced.

I'd personally bump the chel grett to t5u and run that, or the sar theln and run that until I knew for sure what style and build to go for.

The current flavor of the month is the iconian set (all but core or even all four with core but only if you can afford to upgrade the core to mark 14 elite). The previous hotness was nukara deflector & shield plus romulan engines with a spire core. The assimilated Borg deflector &engine with fleet shield and spire core is also a solid performer. I suspect you could assemble one of those setups without much trouble. The iconian is the most expensive, since you'd be starting from scratch.

Any specfic weapon loadouts you would run on the Chel Grett? (Mine is already T5-Upgraded) and the gear I have availible is visible, I have enough fleet credits to buy a fleet shield which do you recomend?

gavinruneblade · June 2015

The popular fleet shield was resB plus adapt. I guess I should check that it still has the better choice of resistances compared to resA given all the new enemies. I think it still is better than resA. The maco shield is also great as long as you don't use the plasmonic leech.

Weapon loadouts, for solo damage antiproton is tops and you can get them free from fluidic destruction. Or a mix of the better plasmas (romplas, caustic, or the new xindi bio plasma) for much better team support at only a small loss to your own performance. I personally would run 4 dual beams up front the kinetic cutting beam, ancient omni beam, crafted omni and a turret in back (two turrets and no ancient for plasma). Or three dual beams and a torpedo up front for fun. Both antiproton and plasma have torpedo's that share tactical consoles with the beams.

reginamala78 · June 2015

Based on what you have shown, I think I'd go for the Nukara deflector and shield, engines I'm not sure if those are Romulan or Reman but useable either way (Romulan better though), antiproton beam arrays plus the Assimilated Module + KCB combo, and the subspace rift warp core. Rest of your console slots, maybe your Fleet Armor and Fleet RCS, then that leaves you 3 slots for universals if you wanna throw on like Gravimetric Torp + Proton Particle Stabilizer (fun with spread + gravity well, plus +3% CrtH), or the Delta Flight console or the Bio Neural Gel Packs or Romulan module or whatever little extras ya like. That should give you a pretty solid setup (really its a pretty common cookie-cutter setup) able to readily rock Advanced stuff without having to buy anything other than maybe some more antiproton tac consoles or 1-2 more beam arrays.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

Thanks for the advice, I shall try both

ryakidrys · June 2015

You show lots of gear, but the main things missing for space are your bridge officer setups and active duty space roster setups. Also, you should focus on certain things to maximize potential. Being a "jack of all trades" will often make your performance underwhelming in every aspect. If you can pick a play style to maximize for, then selecting a ship that fits it makes it much easier to set everything else up in concert with it. You've mentioned the chel grett. Energy weapons are the easy way to go, not saying kinetics aren't viable at all, but beam weapons are often the easier types to get working well. If you like to face the front of your ship to the target, then dual beam banks/dual cannons/ dual heavy cannons are the forward weapon set, but try to stick to either beam or cannon types, not both. Since bridge officer setups are often cheaper than upgrading gear, and can provide a quick assesment on whether the changes help or not, I'd suggest checking out your bridge officer setup. DOFFs for the active duty space roster can admittedly get expensive on the exchange, so it's not without some cost potential, but give it a try.
Try a setup with dual beam banks and/or beam arrays like:
CDR Tac TT1, BFAW2, APB2, APB3
LT Tac TT1, BFAW2
LT Eng ET1, EPTW2
LCDR Sci HE1, HE2, ST3
Ens Uni (Eng) EPTS1

You'll need 2 purple damage control engineers in your active duty space roster that reduce emergency power to subsystem recharges, 2 development lab scientists that reduce science team recharge and 2 maintenance engineers that reduce engineering team recharge. If you don't have the fleet expansion to the roster and have 5 slots, then try just 1 development lab scientist.

Another suggestion is to get a hold of a combatlog parser, like combatlogreader, and use that to find out how you are doing in missions. When you make changes, you can see in numbers if things changed for the better. Teamwork does heavily influence your DPS and other metrics, so small differences aren't necessarily a sign of a change being better than another. If you are doing advanced ISA, for example, you should be able to average close to or above 10k DPS with a good setup, even if you don't have the best stuff yet or have gotten your weapons at MK XIV level!

cearav · June 2015

captaingalaxy1 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply's guys^ Like you say Cearav, I am missing skill points in key area's. What should I do about ship equipment/personal sets that aren't complete or the stuff in my bank and inventory e.t.c any stuff that you would recycle?

You can put this under personal preference but I like the delta set. It may not be the best against a specific enemy but it is more than capable of combating a whole host of different enemies. I would also recommend that whatever set you pick upgrade it to mk 14. Don'y worry to much about quality as it does not make as big of a difference as level does.

my 2 ec.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

I have setup combatlog reader a did a match on ground in the brotherhood (Normal) PVE and Gateway to Grethor Advanced I seem to be on top for DPS in ground but Space, my DPS sucks quite bad and im not a contender. This was with the Kobali ship and the setup I have on the screenshot. Investigating the Chel Grett seems to be a good way to progress forward and then look at my bridge officer abilities e.t.c before sorting a beam build out.

ryakidrys · June 2015

STFs with long pauses between stages or where you have to race across the map, like gateway to grethor, often have much lower DPS than ones where you can be fighting the entire time. Thus, Infected: The Conduit Advanced (ISA) is the one STF folks have found is a reasonably decent way to measure DPS.

Another thing to consider is that in grethor, the 1st and 3rd stages require you to destroy baddies, but the 2nd stage is more about guarding, shutting down gates and healing the transports. Any DPS in stage 2 is to create threat to draw fire away from the transports, not necessarily about destroying the baddies.

The link below might help with explaining some of the reasons for setting up ships this way or that way. If you don't already understand the 3 basic ship build setups talked about in the video, I hope it will help explain some things. If you already know that stuff, then great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFF2LUxRWxQ

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

ryakidrys wrote: »

STFs with long pauses between stages or where you have to race across the map, like gateway to grethor, often have much lower DPS than ones where you can be fighting the entire time. Thus, Infected: The Conduit Advanced (ISA) is the one STF folks have found is a reasonably decent way to measure DPS.

Another thing to consider is that in grethor, the 1st and 3rd stages require you to destroy baddies, but the 2nd stage is more about guarding, shutting down gates and healing the transports. Any DPS in stage 2 is to create threat to draw fire away from the transports, not necessarily about destroying the baddies.

The link below might help with explaining some of the reasons for setting up ships this way or that way. If you don't already understand the 3 basic ship build setups talked about in the video, I hope it will help explain some things. If you already know that stuff, then great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFF2LUxRWxQ

Thanks for sharing the video, After having a look at it I know that I need to do some work with my bridge officer abilities, I haven't looked at the new BO training system since it went live. So not too sure how that works.

westmetals wrote: »

The thing I'm noticing about a lot of your ship builds is that in some cases, the energy weapons aren't type-matched, and you're using dual/dual heavy cannons on some slow-turning ships that really should be using beams (due to wider firing arcs being more forgiving with the slow turn rates). Some of your builds also seem to be very heavy on torpedoes.

That's not going into the quality or types of the weapons themselves, just that you may not be using the right styles of weapons for the strengths and weaknesses of certain ships. A weapon, or even a whole build, does you NO good if the enemy is not in firing arc and range.

Take for example that first shot of the Chel Grett. You apparently have two different energy types of cannons, and also an infinity weapon (the cluster torpedo?). If you right-click to upgrade, that should change itself to Mk XII. (and your second through fourth tac consoles are torpedo boosters, so those probably have very little juice.)

Personally, I would go out and get (or I think you already have some you can swap around, this is all one character, right?) and use a KCB and an Assimilated Console, at least on any beam-armed ship. And as gavin alluded to, the Obelisk build you have (and really, just about any beam-armed ship with 2 or 3 aft weapon mounts) is perfect for an all-omni aft build, which means you can throw duals forward and have all weapons firing forward (as you may be familiar with from cannon/turret builds).

On my Chel Gret I think the Preserver Canons are Disruptors Type as are The Elachi Cannons. I Have another Elachi Cannon in my bank and have used it with a 3 Cannon 1 Torp up front setup before. With the two Elachi Beam Arrays out back with a Beam Fire at Will 3 or something if i remember to shoot at a collapsed shield if I were to swing round.

paxdawn · June 2015

What type of elites are you aiming to be competitive at? I asked since the elites have very different level of difficulty. From the easy elites of Korfez, BDE to the hardest elites like Hive Space, Herald Space, GGE.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

paxdawn wrote: »

What type of elites are you aiming to be competitive at? I asked since the elites have very different level of difficulty. From the easy elites of Korfez, BDE to the hardest elites like Hive Space, Herald Space, GGE.

Im aiming for the Hard Elites like Herald Space.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

Here's my current build for my chel grett

Bridge Officer Setup

reginamala78 · June 2015

Uhh you've got the same picture twice, gear both times, so need to edit that to show your boff layout. Or set up at www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner to show us a more standardized example structure; its just the local shorthand and a good tool worth using.

Also thats......an odd weapon layout. Maybe someone who's big on torp boats will correct me, but I'm thinking that mixing all those aft torps and mines, plus combining transphasics and whatever that Fore torp is, plus the DHCs, is gonna result in a very scattered layout with no single kill zone. Deflector/engine/shield alright, though for the warp core a Fleet Elite with [amp] would be your best addition, or barring that even use the Kobali core which at least has that nice shield capacitor or the Subspace Rift core if you do end up going antiproton. Consoles you're doing better but I'd still strip a few, at the very least dropping the Breen one and the non-neutronium armor (I think thats a Fleet Monotanium?) and put in the Hydrodynamics Compensator and maybe the Delta Flight one to turn better if you're going to use cannons. Also, the Pirate Distress Call doesn't have to be slotted to be usable, so you can put something else in that device slot.

All told its an improvement and a step in the right direction, but its still kinda messy and I get the feeling Elites and even some of the tougher Advanced would not be kind to you. Needs a few less gimmicks and some more focusing on whatever you do keep.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

reginamala78 wrote: »

Uhh you've got the same picture twice, gear both times, so need to edit that to show your boff layout. Or set up at www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner to show us a more standardized example structure; its just the local shorthand and a good tool worth using.

Also thats......an odd weapon layout. Maybe someone who's big on torp boats will correct me, but I'm thinking that mixing all those aft torps and mines, plus combining transphasics and whatever that Fore torp is, plus the DHCs, is gonna result in a very scattered layout with no single kill zone. Deflector/engine/shield alright, though for the warp core a Fleet Elite with [amp] would be your best addition, or barring that even use the Kobali core which at least has that nice shield capacitor or the Subspace Rift core if you do end up going antiproton. Consoles you're doing better but I'd still strip a few, at the very least dropping the Breen one and the non-neutronium armor (I think thats a Fleet Monotanium?) and put in the Hydrodynamics Compensator and maybe the Delta Flight one to turn better if you're going to use cannons. Also, the Pirate Distress Call doesn't have to be slotted to be usable, so you can put something else in that device slot.

All told its an improvement and a step in the right direction, but its still kinda messy and I get the feeling Elites and even some of the tougher Advanced would not be kind to you. Needs a few less gimmicks and some more focusing on whatever you do keep.

Image now corrected, The Ship Originally was a Elachi Disruptor/Transphasic build to link in with the Breen set. Forward Torpedo is an Omega Torpedo to link in with Assimilated Console but in terms of instant DPS, probably should look at changing that, Out of the reputation torpedos, I have The Grav Torpedo at Mk XII, Romulan Hyperplasma at Mk XII and of course the Omega Plasma Torpedo also at Mk XII.

Personally I would like to keep some of my Elachi Disruptors of which I have 3 DHC, have two beam arrays at Mk XI but won't use them as I wish to have a Cannon setup for this ship. Any suggestions for my aft weapons?

kittyflofy · June 2015

The big question is.. why elite??? o.O any particular reason? i mean , being competitive in advance i can understand, but elite difficulty is a waste of time..

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

kittyflofy wrote: »

The big question is.. why elite??? o.O any particular reason? i mean , being competitive in advance i can understand, but elite difficulty is a waste of time..

I always like to be the best that I can, being able and having a build/ship that will perform in such an encounter would help me achieve that. Before Delta Rising I used to do the old Elite all the time and I would like to feel back up there so to speak.
.

paxdawn · June 2015

captaingalaxy1 wrote: »

Here's my current build for my chel grett

In the hardest elites, you need to have a capable team and capable piloting.

Since you want to play with mixed weapons of cannons, torps and mines. Even the best players and groups would have a hard time making a mixed weaponry work in the hardest elite. The amount of coordination of teamwork required is taxing. Even random higher DPS channels wont work. You need premade that knows what they are doing in elite who can support that kind of setup you want.

I guess the next question would be are you after that kind of setup doing elite or are you just after being competitive in elite regardless of setup?

kittyflofy wrote: »

The big question is.. why elite??? o.O any particular reason? i mean , being competitive in advance i can understand, but elite difficulty is a waste of time..

The hardest elites are only a waste of time if you and your groups capabilities are not capable of finishing them in due haste. For example, ISA, the statistically based on publicly available table the average player would be doing 9k DPS. In ISA of around 42M HP, that would be about around 15 mins to complete that ISA assuming everyone is doing around 9k.

In Hive Space Elite of around 142M HP, it would take elite players around 6 mins to complete it.

breadandcircuses · June 2015

Just eyeballing it, but maybe something like this (if sticking mostly to items you have on hand and what you're already doing)?

The basic idea is go in single-target APB/CRF, come about, and leave with a HY Resonant and Breen Cluster, come about, GW/APB/CRF the nearest group, etc. Remember, even if you trigger THY on the way in, it isn't consumed until you actually fire, while the cooldown starts when it's triggered. You might consider swapping the Breen Cluster for a Disruptor Omni, for overall damage (especially fore).
The blank spaces are for the Resonant set, with DHC fore, Torp aft, and Tac console... Tac. The 3-piece ability is pretty neat, and you seem interested in playing about with the set.
If you're using the Counter-Command Multi-Conduit Energy Relay, you really ought to at least be picking up the 2-piece bonus Disruptor damage. Personally, I'd suggest upgrading to Locators when you get the chance and using the Compensator/Turret to pick up the bonus, since you're doing a cannon build anyway. The Multi-Conduit does boost Radiation damage on your Resonant DHC/torp, but it's probably not as effective as Locators could be for everything.
Also, the Kobali Core is probably a better option than the Breen... the Breen Core is the ONLY one that applies a net decrease to your overall power level when used, and is pretty much meh otherwise, making it bad overall (unless you really want to 2-piece bonus and are using nicer things elsewhere). Seriously, you'd be better redistributing your power via presets and getting +45 Weapon power until you change it back. Then again, just as Locators are a nice upgrade, an [AMP] Core is something to pick up when you get the chance, either via Fleet or Upgrade.
The Regenerative Integrity Field is a great "haha, I just healed to full" console; between the active ability and the passive boost to Hull Repair, it's a much better option than the Breen Energy Dissipator (even if it isn't Breen).
You mentioned being away, so it might be good to note that the Team skills no longer trigger cooldown on each other, and are extremely useful against more recent NPC adversaries; I would definitely suggest running all three.
Also, are you a Fed-main/Fed-only player? If so, do you have the Phantom? If not, and you are, you should get it... Reciprocity and your Gel Packs would let you stretch your Tac skillset more, improving your effectiveness overall. It's arguably the best Starship Trait in STO, and synergizes with anything that involves using Tac boff abilities.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

Okay so here's my current build http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=cgalaxychelgrettbuildv1_0

kittyflofy · June 2015

captaingalaxy1 wrote: »

kittyflofy wrote: »

The big question is.. why elite??? o.O any particular reason? i mean , being competitive in advance i can understand, but elite difficulty is a waste of time..

I always like to be the best that I can, being able and having a build/ship that will perform in such an encounter would help me achieve that. Before Delta Rising I used to do the old Elite all the time and I would like to feel back up there so to speak.
.

The thing is, the equipment you will need to advanced is almost the same you will need to elite. Because there is no "better" equipment lol. If you play elite, as others said, its more about knowing what you doing, having a good team and not really much more. Elite means that mobs have more HP and a little more punch. It doesnt feel more difficult , just more tedious in my opinion. You need the best equipment you can get to do advanced (they are like the old elites) and thats the same equipment you will use as well in elites. In elites will be more important your traits, ship masteries, etc.

captaingalaxy1 · June 2015

westmetals wrote: »

Looking at the link... some people may disagree, but I think you have too much duplication in your BOFF powers. And specifically I would try to come up with a way to consolidate the Tac team to one of the other BOFFs and use the Ens Universal to get Sci or Eng team in, and also try to fit in a CSV somewhere.

As for equipment, I would look into fleet consoles, particularly to replace the second and third tac slots (and the fourth if that blank is a generic console as well), and get Vulnerability Locators for the extra crit chance; that will help your DPS. These still have the weapon boost of the equivalent generics, so you would not be sacrificing anything other than the purchase price of the consoles. You can also get extra crit chance by replacing your tac BOFFs with ones from the Fleet Embassy with the Superior Romulan Operative space trait. (Or any kind of BOFFs with normal Romulan Operative; superior is not available on sci or eng at the embassy.)

I will also second the idea of possibly using a crafted disruptor omni (though a turret is almost the same thing, so it's not all that crucial). And, any of your other aft weapons that are not providing a set bonus should be the best disruptor turrets you can get your hands on - I am not at all a fan of "wasting" aft slots on non-360-arc weapons that do not have set bonuses.

-The 4th Tactical Console Slot is actually filled by a Harmonic Resonance Console, from the preserver set.

-2 of my three tactical officers are the Romulan Embassy ones.

Doesn't the 8472 Counter Command Reputation have a Heavy Disruptor Turret project? I have enough to get this

paxdawn · June 2015

captaingalaxy1 wrote: »

Okay so here's my current build http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=cgalaxychelgrettbuildv1_0

Since you didnt answer my previous question, I am going to give you some common stuff/abilities/doffs used players who have done Herald Space elite.

You need some form of Shield penetration, which Romulan sci consoles come in.

You also need all counters vs the disables in the mission. That means all the tac team, eng team and sci team, Hazard emitters.

Beams are optimal. Since I dont know your level of piloting nor the quality of group you are playing with, I am not going to recommend playing a mixture of weapons like cannons + torps. Plus, currently, those Rom sci consoles work only with Beams.

You can use the 3pc borg set+spire warp core +amp if hive space, 3pc icon+rom engine or 4pc iconian for herald space elite.
For eng consoles, the common stuff used in herald space elite are tachyo converter, borg assimilated, bioneural console, plasmonic leech.

Common stuff in doffs are marion, zemok, damage control engineers.

For Boffs, SROs, Diplo pirate, mission hierarchy pirate

For mods, assuming it is beams, Crtdx3pen being optimal crtdx2dmg2 being the lowest assuming you have minimum crtdx2 mods. The difference between those mods are not greater than 6%.

common starship traits being used nowadays are AHOD, reciprocity, emergency weapon cycle, supremacy
Common Personal traits, inspirational leader, fluidic cocoon, intense focus, helmsman, anchored

again these are all common stuff being used in finishing and at least making a significant contribution at Herald Space Elite.

kittyflofy wrote: »

The thing is, the equipment you will need to advanced is almost the same you will need to elite. Because there is no "better" equipment lol. If you play elite, as others said, its more about knowing what you doing, having a good team and not really much more. Elite means that mobs have more HP and a little more punch. It doesnt feel more difficult , just more tedious in my opinion. You need the best equipment you can get to do advanced (they are like the old elites) and thats the same equipment you will use as well in elites. In elites will be more important your traits, ship masteries, etc.

No it is not the same. The minimum gear required in advance is not the same as the hardest elites. Although certain advance are almost the same level of difficulty as certain elites. The minimum gear in elite, specifically the elite the OP wants to play, assuming you want to contribute is epic for certain gears or if not specific gears.

Herald Space isnt one of your easy elites like Korfez or BDE. Herald Space elite is one of those elites catered for the pros.

Outdated Level 60 Tactical Captain needs advice to get him competetive at Elite.

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