So Icarus makes no sense in giving up tactical abilities, being an escort, to use pilot ones? Or Samsar/Galaxy to give up engineering abilities, being a cruiser, to use command ones? Why should the Pathfinder be different? Again, science is powerful enough that Override isn't even compulsory. However if you want to pick up something from Intel, the seatings immediately become overly inflexible. If picking up Intel gives you problems, you can give the Universal to science and solve them, if the LtC was a hybrid.
Plus, why can't the Pathfinder use Transport Warhead? With LtC science it would be able to at least. The T5 era is gone, don't think it like if it was the T5 Intrepid that has to use science slots for science abilities.
I'm not thinking it. What I am saying is that if science was up to par we would't be having this conversation, not that your point isn't valid. The thing with tac ships is that basically you have choices. Beam, cannon, torp, it's all there and a lot of the skills are exteemely low rank.
Science basically has one. Exotic with a sub standard drain secondary, and everything else sucks. The fact that unlike tac, there is almost nothing in the science family that boosts science, while there is a plethora of tac abilities to boost tac is exactly what this coversation is about
I'm not thinking it. What I am saying is that if science was up to par we would't be having this conversation, not that your point isn't valid. The thing with tac ships is that basically you have choices. Beam, cannon, torp, it's all there and a lot of the skills are exteemely low rank.
Science basically has one. Exotic with a sub standard drain secondary, and everything else sucks. The fact that unlike tac, there is almost nothing in the science family that boosts science, while there is a plethora of tac abilities to boost tac is exactly what this coversation is about
I think the problem is the opposite: the tactical side should be hit with a hammer of some sort to halt power creep. AP FAW beams with plasma explosions and kemocite: that's the most efficient, easy and powercreeping way to make NPCs "get rekt".
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
If you look at the boff setup, the Lt Engi/Intel is heavily gimped. You can't even get to use all Intel spec abilities, and as a result the Lt Universal is a false one.
At best, you can get to have 4 engineering powers on that ship: 2 are out for EPTX powers which are a must. If you wanna use Intel, you have to use the remaining 2 slots or just one, which leaves you with very little options.
Even worse, there's actually the chance that you don't even get to have a single engineering power if you give the Lt Uni to something else, like Tac.
However the LtC seat would be just perfect. Complete access to all abilities except rank III Cmdr powers and way more flexibility as there are plenty of science slots to accomodate what you need. As a result, you can still get to have decent survivability engineering wise by having all the times 2 or 4 powers available.
The LtC Sci hybrid setups have been around for a while: JHSS, Galaxy, Negh'Tev, D'Khellra, Samsar, Nandi, the two Sheshars, Xindi Olean, Xindi Ateleth, even the T6 Destroyer now and they're arguably the best ones that do not lock you out from half of specialization powers.
I don't see why. The Dauntless' hybrid seat is lieutenant. The Aelahl's seat is lieutenant.
Why should the Pathfinder ship be different?
While some other ships may have Lieutenant Commander hybrids, how does that merit the Pathfinder having it? You purchased a ship which had set features at that time. You got exactly what you paid for. Now you think you deserve more because... you just deserve it?
Sounds like you're suffering from that entitlement buzzword you like to throw around...
I don't see why. The Dauntless' hybrid seat is lieutenant. The Aelahl's seat is lieutenant.
Why should the Pathfinder ship be different?
While some other ships may have Lieutenant Commander hybrids, how does that merit the Pathfinder having it? You purchased a ship which had set features at that time. You got exactly what you paid for. Now you think you deserve more because... you just deserve it?
Sounds like you're suffering from that entitlement buzzword you like to throw around...
If you even cared about reading the whole thread, because this. Where's the entitlement in asking for a better layout because of... well just read the thread which is something you didn't do. :rolleyes:
cryptic realized their error with giving some tier 6 ships JUST a LT level specialization seat by the time they released the iconic cruisers, at least with the LTC, these ships could use any of the abilities available to that specialization. befog that, ONLY the 'specialization theme ships' were able to run the LTC and up skills, so they went to all that trouble makeing those new skills, and only 1 ship per faction was EVER going to be able to use half of them. what a total waste of development time, and suicidally stupid walling of content.
all non theme tier 6 ships getting a LTC is a great improvement, but far from what i would consider perfect. step 1 should be all the tier 6 ships with just a LT hybrid should have their hybrid seat upgraded to LTC immediately, especially the pathfinder.
i'll try to ignore how dumb that statement is, and just focus on mitigating the effects of the change. if the LTC sci was made the hybrid, you could just use the LT uni for sci, and gain the capability of using a LTC intel skill. every ship needs to be running at least 2 eng skills any way, so you would literally lose nothing if this were changed. well, unless you want 7 sci skills, 4 tac skills, 2 intel skills, and no eng skills, your build would be to fail to ever consider though.
for the rest of those LT hybrid only tier 6 ships-
zindi lockbox ships and the new bug have a LTC and LT hybrid, so the rest of the lock box ships should too
Hazari- keep the LT tac intel hybrid, add LTC sci pilot hybrid
Benthan- keep the LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC tac command hybrid
Manasa- keep LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC eng pilot hybrid
Astika- keep LT eng command hybrid, add LTC tac pilot hybrid
Sheshar- on ether version, make the LT tac a hybrid of ether command or intel, depending on what LTC hybrid it has.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Think about it, how can this change affect you? If you only use 2 lt intel powers, you can always move the Universal to science and still feel it the same while. However, it'd open even more possibilities for other players by having access to the full array of Intel.
I did think about it. The available Intel powers at the LT levels are sufficient for high DPS Pathfinder builds; some don't even bother to use Intel powers at all.
The change would negatively affect myself and most others due to using the Uni for a few more Tac skills while only using ET1 and OsS2/IT1/EM Probe (moreso if hoping to take advantage of Reciprocity + AHOD or just AHOD).
There isn't much at the Intel LTC level that's useful if you're going for a half-competent PartGen/FlowCap build with the Pathfinder's seating arrangement.
I would not be adverse however, to a more offensive Intel-based setup going to a T6 Nova-class, which perfectly fits the seating arrangement for such, having: LtC Tac Lt Eng Cmdr Sci Lt Sci Ensign Sci
If given the +1 Seating and a Hybrid and copying the Andromeda's seat loadout in Science w/ Intel flavor, you'd get the Lt Sci to LtC Sci/Intel while the Ensign goes Uni.
I don't see why. The Dauntless' hybrid seat is lieutenant. The Aelahl's seat is lieutenant.
Why should the Pathfinder ship be different?
While some other ships may have Lieutenant Commander hybrids, how does that merit the Pathfinder having it? You purchased a ship which had set features at that time. You got exactly what you paid for. Now you think you deserve more because... you just deserve it?
Sounds like you're suffering from that entitlement buzzword you like to throw around...
Umm, wow, nothing to do with 'entitlement' anyone can see the ship has a lack of dedicated engineering space available.
Which by itself wouldn't be a problem, however, when someone wants to make use of the hybrid Intel seat, they'd effectively have to give up the only (dedicated) engineering station the ship has. Making the universal seat a de facto engineering seat just to have some engineering abilities.
Which wouldn't really be a 'universal' seat then would it?
If you even cared about reading the whole thread, because this. Where's the entitlement in asking for a better layout because of... well just read the thread which is something you didn't do. :rolleyes:
You're asking for something more, after getting a product you paid for that was delivered as advertised.
Where is the entitlement in "veterans" asking for a T6 version of their ship? You seemed to get your knickers in a bunch every time it happened. In fact, you get your knickers in a bunch any time a "veteran" asks for anything because they got what they paid for, right?
I love Intrepid, I waited for a T6 version to finally have a better one and jumped on it, despite this huge fallacy.
... you got what you paid for, and are asking for more.
Either asking for more than you paid for is "entitlement" and you shouldn't do it since you toss that accusation around like it's going out of style, or it isn't and you should stop tossing it out there any time someone with a subscription asks for something.
I did think about it. The available Intel powers at the LT levels are sufficient for high DPS Pathfinder builds; some don't even bother to use Intel powers at all.
The change would negatively affect myself and most others due to using the Uni for a few more Tac skills while only using ET1 and OsS2/IT1/EM Probe (moreso if hoping to take advantage of Reciprocity + AHOD or just AHOD).
There isn't much at the Intel LTC level that's useful if you're going for a half-competent PartGen/FlowCap build with the Pathfinder's seating arrangement.
[/COLOR].
"High DPSers" would disagree with you. I informed myself pretty good before writing this thread.
Umm, wow, nothing to do with 'entitlement' anyone can see the ship has a lack of dedicated engineering space available.
Which by itself wouldn't be a problem, however, when someone wants to make use of the hybrid Intel seat, they'd effectively have to give up the only (dedicated) engineering station the ship has. Making the universal seat a de facto engineering seat just to have some engineering abilities.
Which wouldn't really be a 'universal' seat then would it?
You're asking for something more, after getting a product you paid for that was delivered as advertised.
Where is the entitlement in "veterans" asking for a T6 version of their ship? You seemed to get your knickers in a bunch every time it happened. In fact, you get your knickers in a bunch any time a "veteran" asks for anything because they got what they paid for, right?
So...
... you got what you paid for, and are asking for more.
Either asking for more than you paid for is "entitlement" and you shouldn't do it since you toss that accusation around like it's going out of style, or it isn't and you should stop tossing it out there any time someone with a subscription asks for something.
Everything to do with the TC though, and their love of using that term improperly.
Oh god here we go again. I'm not asking to bump it up because I have it, but because it's objectively bad. Of course I wouldn't be asking to if I didn't have it, but after 8 months I see this fallacy as creepy constant. Now, stop hijacking my thread with your entitlement lures. Not gonna work on me.
/closed point.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Of course I wouldn't be asking to if I didn't have it...
... contradiction. Admittedly self-serving. Asking for stuff which personally benefits you, and admitting you wouldn't bother if it didn't.
You're asking the devs to spend development time to give you something more than was advertised and that you bought and paid for and was delivered as advertised.
Because it's specialization seat isn't where you want it (even though it's where it was advertised to be) and because it has three Lieutenant seats instead of two Lieutenant Commanders and an Ensign (even though that's what it was advertised to have, and what you bought)... right?
Lt. intel on Pathfinder isn't that bad to be honest, but I'd pay to have it bumped to ltcmdr intel. They learned that they should give at least ltcmdr to gain access to all specialization abilities, I can't see why not making the ships released with DR to have their ltcmdr slot hybrid.
... and yet I guess since more and more Lieutenant Commander hybrid slots have been released, it's lost some luster, huh? Before wasn't that bad, now objectively bad like that's it's defining feature. So you think it needs an upgrade. But of course, the T5 vet ship rewards really didn't because...
Veter... ahem, LTS players do not deserve anything. You got what you paid for when you purchased the subscription, you are not in the position or have the rights to pretend more than that.
In other words, stop pretending.
... they got what was advertised, right? I mean sure, the luster fell off when better things kept getting released with DR. So of course vet... sorry, "LTS players" were Evil greedy Entitled people for asking for T6 versions of the Vet ships, despite the fact that the Chimera and friends had no third Lieutenant seat nor any second Lieutenant Commander seats, and not a single specialization seat anywhere. So... if the Pathfinder is "objectively bad" within the current endgame meta, then the Chimera and siblings were objectively worse.
...
So basically... your definition of "entitlement" is: People asking for more than they paid for IF and ONLY if it doesn't personally benefit you (because if it's benefiting you it's just fixing an inadequacy that became clear with time, right?).
... Gotcha. I have read and understood the contents and context of your posts.
But hey, at least you can claim to not be "entitled" because you just offered this as a "suggestion" according to your thread title. It's not like you said this needs to be fixed, like you're entitled to this being changed as though it is the only right thing to do...
Plus, the more I think about how it can't use Transport Warhead like Kim did, the more I'm convincing that I'm right.
... oh wait.
Still, I'm sure you're being totally reasonable, unlike those evil vet... uh, "LTS Players" who do not deserve anything because they're selfish enough to ask for more than they purchased (you know, when it doesn't benefit you personally... because then it's obviously totally awesome and cool and reasonable! Cheers! )!
It won't happen. Only Elachi Sheshar Dreadnought Cruiser and Jem'Hadar Strike Ship have a Lt Cmdr intel hybrid, and both can be won from the R&D limited Promotional Pack. Intel > Command, Intel> Pilot. Deal with it :cool:
Hmm. If the argument is really based so much on Transport Warhead....
... then how come Tractor Beam is a boff power and not built in to every ship in the game?
It's not the main idea, but one of them.
However, Tractor beam can be used.
Transport Warhead can't.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Hmm. If the argument is really based so much on Transport Warhead....
... then how come Tractor Beam is a boff power and not built in to every ship in the game?
Also worth noting, every ship in the game, barring a couple of shuttles, can use Tractor Beam I. Being an Ensign ability makes even the most Science deficient ship capable of using it.
But with Transport Warhead, an ability inspired by Harry Kim's beaming of a Photon onto a Borg ship in ST: Voyager, no Intrepid variant can use it, being a Lt. Commander Intel ability.
Even the most advanced Pathfinder class can't reproduce what Ensign Kim did 30+ years earlier...
By the simple fact that we are talking about removing a science+ slot for a non-science power just to make our ships rock speaks of the balance issue involved. It's a science ship and by that definition a LCDR slot should be filled with science. Not only that we should be agonizing over our builds and not just simply sliding in another of the same old skills.
The fact that this should be concidered speaks loudly over the state of science. Lets put system overload in because it's practically mandatory any more, and is hands down better then any lcdr science skill out there speaks volumes.]
lol, the LTC seat matching the COM seat hasn't been mandated since they released the excelsior year 1. but this is only the 3rd dumbest thing ive read in this thread.
the second dumbest thing ive seen is people advocating for running 4 tac powers on this ship, a sci ship, a sci ship with 6 weapon slots. heres a clue, tac station powers only really buff whats in your weapon slots, but on an actually well set up sci ship, nothing in your weapon slots should be making much of a difference, you don't have the weapon power to spare anyway if you want to actually play to a sci ship's strengths. if you want to deal damage with a sci ship, you max out aux, max out partial gens, and slot sci skills and consoles and set bonuses that turn particles into damage. leave the weapons damage to ships actually optomized in it, that have 8 slots or can at least slot cannons.
the #1 dumbest thing ive seen is the professional forum arguers, that roll out their cute little entitlement meme. whats wrong, couldn't find any liberals to attack with your favorite little word online anywhere? the basis and reasoning for these changes was layed out clearly on page 1.
The LtC Sci hybrid setups have been around for a while: JHSS, Galaxy, Negh'Tev, D'Khellra, Samsar, Nandi, the two Sheshars, Xindi Olean, Xindi Ateleth, even the T6 Destroyer now and they're arguably the best ones that do not lock you out from half of specialization powers.
the power creep has passed the original tier 6 ships by, they are out of alinement and underpowered compared to all the tier 6 ships now getting LTC level hybrid seats, and more. explained in further detail here.
cryptic realized their error with giving some tier 6 ships JUST a LT level specialization seat by the time they released the iconic cruisers, at least with the LTC, these ships could use any of the abilities available to that specialization. befog that, ONLY the 'specialization theme ships' were able to run the LTC and up skills, so they went to all that trouble makeing those new skills, and only 1 ship per faction was EVER going to be able to use half of them. what a total waste of development time, and suicidally stupid walling of content.
all non theme tier 6 ships getting a LTC is a great improvement, but far from what i would consider perfect. step 1 should be all the tier 6 ships with just a LT hybrid should have their hybrid seat upgraded to LTC immediately, especially the pathfinder.
for the rest of those LT hybrid only tier 6 ships-
zindi lockbox ships and the new bug have a LTC and LT hybrid, so the rest of the lock box ships should too
Hazari- keep the LT tac intel hybrid, add LTC sci pilot hybrid
Benthan- keep the LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC tac command hybrid
Manasa- keep LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC eng pilot hybrid
Astika- keep LT eng command hybrid, add LTC tac pilot hybrid
Sheshar- on ether version, make the LT tac a hybrid of ether command or intel, depending on what LTC hybrid it has.
this same basic thing happened not that long ago to the galaxy dreadnaught. it was well behind the curve compared to all the other dreadnaughts, so it got buffed. these LT hybrid only tier 6 ships, and especially the early tier 6 lock box ships, are WELL behind the curve, a correction is due.
i don't even own most of these, so it would be pretty hard for me to be entitled, wanting them buffed, this is purely on principle.
All I can say is "WOW". DDIS strikes once again, I have to agree on everything there.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
lol, the LTC seat matching the COM seat hasn't been mandated since they released the excelsior year 1. but this is only the 3rd dumbest thing ive read in this thread.
the second dumbest thing ive seen is people advocating for running 4 tac powers on this ship, a sci ship, a sci ship with 6 weapon slots. heres a clue, tac station powers only really buff whats in your weapon slots, but on an actually well set up sci ship, nothing in your weapon slots should be making much of a difference, you don't have the weapon power to spare anyway if you want to actually play to a sci ship's strengths. if you want to deal damage with a sci ship, you max out aux, max out partial gens, and slot sci skills and consoles and set bonuses that turn particles into damage. leave the weapons damage to ships actually optomized in it, that have 8 slots or can at least slot cannons.
the #1 dumbest thing ive seen is the professional forum arguers, that roll out their cute little entitlement meme. whats wrong, couldn't find any liberals to attack with your favorite little word online anywhere? the basis and reasoning for these changes was layed out clearly on page 1.
the power creep has passed the original tier 6 ships by, they are out of alinement and underpowered compared to all the tier 6 ships now getting LTC level hybrid seats, and more. explained in further detail here.
this same basic thing happened not that long ago to the galaxy dreadnaught. it was well behind the curve compared to all the other dreadnaughts, so it got buffed. these LT hybrid only tier 6 ships, and especially the early tier 6 lock box ships, are WELL behind the curve, a correction is due.
i don't even own most of these, so it would be pretty hard for me to be entitled, wanting them buffed, this is purely on principle.
I am not disagreeing, i've just stated some facts; my orion and romulan science captains couldn't care less if the Pathfinder gets Lt Cmdr sci intel hybrid. For the record i own the JHSS, that trait is nice on my T5-FU B'rel. And wanting previous released ships to be brought in line with the latest releases sound like entitlement to me; hell, i wanted my Fleet B'rel upgraded to have Lt cmdr uni hybrid instead of a Lt uni. I'll get this soon but i'm going to pay for it.
Cryptic made intel spec skills better than pilot and command that's why i don't think they " realized their error"; i believe they simply paced power creep, allowing ships with command and pilot hybrids at Lt Cmdr while ships with intel hybrid at Lt cmdr were introduced as ultra hard to get. Remember how long it took to have fleet versions for ships released with intel spec.
You talk about the galaxy dreadnaught that was well behind the curve when it was buffed, but you forget that move was monetized; if Cryptic can find away to monetize the buffs you are proposing they'll do it.
And about that 'must have 2 x EPtX' debate, most of all on a science ship, is no different from the "must have BFAW and APB for DPS". There are no must haves in this game, one template that applies to all ships and captains.
I am not disagreeing, i've just stated some facts; my orion and romulan science captains couldn't care less if the Pathfinder gets Lt Cmdr sci intel hybrid. For the record i own the JHSS, that trait is nice on my T5-FU B'rel. And wanting previous released ships to be brought in line with the latest releases sound like entitlement to me; hell, i wanted my Fleet B'rel upgraded to have Lt cmdr uni hybrid instead of a Lt uni. I'll get this soon but i'm going to pay for it.
Cryptic made intel spec skills better than pilot and command that's why i don't think they " realized their error"; i believe they simply paced power creep, allowing ships with command and pilot hybrids at Lt Cmdr while ships with intel hybrid at Lt cmdr were introduced as ultra hard to get. Remember how long it took to have fleet versions for ships released with intel spec.
You talk about the galaxy dreadnaught that was well behind the curve when it was buffed, but you forget that move was monetized; if Cryptic can find away to monetize the buffs you are proposing they'll do it.
And about that 'must have 2 x EPtX' debate, most of all on a science ship, is no different from the "must have BFAW and APB for DPS". There are no must haves in this game, one template that applies to all ships and captains.
The ship is still pretty new and T6 already. Giving it the LtC science would make it way more appealing to buy, even considering that they randomly put it on sale with the Interior sometimes.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
The ship is still pretty new and T6 already. Giving it the LtC science would make it way more appealing to buy, even considering that they randomly put it on sale with the Interior sometimes.
Not new enough; according to some sources there are 12 brand new ships ready to be sold. If Pathfinder is revised , dontdrunkimshoot's listed ships also need revision. Best thing to expect in the near future is a 3 science vessel pack/ one ship per faction, that must have some small advantage over older ships (for rommies and KDF it simply needs to be T6 ). At first i was enraged when i saw Manasa's stats (having Mat'ha in mind) but then i realised, that's how their business is ran.
Not new enough; according to some sources there are 12 brand new ships ready to be sold. If Pathfinder is revised , dontdrunkimshoot's listed ships also need revision. Best thing to expect in the near future is a 3 science vessel pack/ one ship per faction, that must have some small advantage over older ships (for rommies and KDF it simply needs to be T6 ). At first i was enraged when i saw Manasa's stats (having Mat'ha in mind) but then i realised, that's how their business is ran.
That would be too much even for EA. There's no point in selling full price the same ship at the SAME Tier. They revisited the Intrepid by making a T6 one, they won't make a T6 one to revisit the T6 one that's out already. They may sell the same ship at different tiers, but they never, and never will, sell the same ship at the same tier.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
cryptic realized their error with giving some tier 6 ships JUST a LT level specialization seat by the time they released the iconic cruisers, at least with the LTC, these ships could use any of the abilities available to that specialization. befog that, ONLY the 'specialization theme ships' were able to run the LTC and up skills, so they went to all that trouble makeing those new skills, and only 1 ship per faction was EVER going to be able to use half of them. what a total waste of development time, and suicidally stupid walling of content.
all non theme tier 6 ships getting a LTC is a great improvement, but far from what i would consider perfect. step 1 should be all the tier 6 ships with just a LT hybrid should have their hybrid seat upgraded to LTC immediately, especially the pathfinder.
No. Just no. Not. No way. I like my Pathfinder just the way it is. Go fly some other ship if you don't like this one. It's obvious that you don't know how to use a science ship. You should stick to your stinkin' escorts.
i'll try to ignore how dumb that statement is, and just focus on mitigating the effects of the change. if the LTC sci was made the hybrid, you could just use the LT uni for sci, and gain the capability of using a LTC intel skill. every ship needs to be running at least 2 eng skills any way, so you would literally lose nothing if this were changed. well, unless you want 7 sci skills, 4 tac skills, 2 intel skills, and no eng skills, your build would be to fail to ever consider though.
for the rest of those LT hybrid only tier 6 ships-
zindi lockbox ships and the new bug have a LTC and LT hybrid, so the rest of the lock box ships should too
Hazari- keep the LT tac intel hybrid, add LTC sci pilot hybrid
Benthan- keep the LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC tac command hybrid
Manasa- keep LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC eng pilot hybrid
Astika- keep LT eng command hybrid, add LTC tac pilot hybrid
Sheshar- on ether version, make the LT tac a hybrid of ether command or intel, depending on what LTC hybrid it has.
I'd actually support the proposed changes to the other tier 6 intel non-specialist ships (wow, hope people understood that reference), and it probably wouldn't take too much effort to accomplish. Eleven ships seventeen if we count fleet ships seperately, and this would bring the Intel ships in line (# of specialist abilities wise anyway) with other T6 ships.
Cryptic doesn't even have to do all of them at once, one or two at a time until they are all finished, could even increase sales of the Intel non-specialist ships too...
Oh, with the T6 Battlecruisers having a Lt. Commander intel seat, this would be a good time for Cryptic to reconsider the previous Intel non-specialist ships with their obviously underwhelming Intel seat now...
Comments
I'm not thinking it. What I am saying is that if science was up to par we would't be having this conversation, not that your point isn't valid. The thing with tac ships is that basically you have choices. Beam, cannon, torp, it's all there and a lot of the skills are exteemely low rank.
Science basically has one. Exotic with a sub standard drain secondary, and everything else sucks. The fact that unlike tac, there is almost nothing in the science family that boosts science, while there is a plethora of tac abilities to boost tac is exactly what this coversation is about
I think the problem is the opposite: the tactical side should be hit with a hammer of some sort to halt power creep. AP FAW beams with plasma explosions and kemocite: that's the most efficient, easy and powercreeping way to make NPCs "get rekt".
I don't see why. The Dauntless' hybrid seat is lieutenant. The Aelahl's seat is lieutenant.
Why should the Pathfinder ship be different?
While some other ships may have Lieutenant Commander hybrids, how does that merit the Pathfinder having it? You purchased a ship which had set features at that time. You got exactly what you paid for. Now you think you deserve more because... you just deserve it?
Sounds like you're suffering from that entitlement buzzword you like to throw around...
If you even cared about reading the whole thread, because this. Where's the entitlement in asking for a better layout because of... well just read the thread which is something you didn't do. :rolleyes:
The change would negatively affect myself and most others due to using the Uni for a few more Tac skills while only using ET1 and OsS2/IT1/EM Probe (moreso if hoping to take advantage of Reciprocity + AHOD or just AHOD).
There isn't much at the Intel LTC level that's useful if you're going for a half-competent PartGen/FlowCap build with the Pathfinder's seating arrangement.
I would not be adverse however, to a more offensive Intel-based setup going to a T6 Nova-class, which perfectly fits the seating arrangement for such, having:
LtC Tac
Lt Eng
Cmdr Sci
Lt Sci
Ensign Sci
If given the +1 Seating and a Hybrid and copying the Andromeda's seat loadout in Science w/ Intel flavor, you'd get the Lt Sci to LtC Sci/Intel while the Ensign goes Uni.
Umm, wow, nothing to do with 'entitlement' anyone can see the ship has a lack of dedicated engineering space available.
Which by itself wouldn't be a problem, however, when someone wants to make use of the hybrid Intel seat, they'd effectively have to give up the only (dedicated) engineering station the ship has. Making the universal seat a de facto engineering seat just to have some engineering abilities.
Which wouldn't really be a 'universal' seat then would it?
You're asking for something more, after getting a product you paid for that was delivered as advertised.
Where is the entitlement in "veterans" asking for a T6 version of their ship? You seemed to get your knickers in a bunch every time it happened. In fact, you get your knickers in a bunch any time a "veteran" asks for anything because they got what they paid for, right?
So...
... you got what you paid for, and are asking for more.
Either asking for more than you paid for is "entitlement" and you shouldn't do it since you toss that accusation around like it's going out of style, or it isn't and you should stop tossing it out there any time someone with a subscription asks for something.
Everything to do with the TC though, and their love of using that term improperly.
"High DPSers" would disagree with you. I informed myself pretty good before writing this thread.
Exactly.
Oh god here we go again. I'm not asking to bump it up because I have it, but because it's objectively bad. Of course I wouldn't be asking to if I didn't have it, but after 8 months I see this fallacy as creepy constant. Now, stop hijacking my thread with your entitlement lures. Not gonna work on me.
/closed point.
And...
... contradiction. Admittedly self-serving. Asking for stuff which personally benefits you, and admitting you wouldn't bother if it didn't.
You're asking the devs to spend development time to give you something more than was advertised and that you bought and paid for and was delivered as advertised.
And of course...
Because it's specialization seat isn't where you want it (even though it's where it was advertised to be) and because it has three Lieutenant seats instead of two Lieutenant Commanders and an Ensign (even though that's what it was advertised to have, and what you bought)... right?
And you used to be relatively happy with it...
... and yet I guess since more and more Lieutenant Commander hybrid slots have been released, it's lost some luster, huh? Before wasn't that bad, now objectively bad like that's it's defining feature. So you think it needs an upgrade. But of course, the T5 vet ship rewards really didn't because...
... they got what was advertised, right? I mean sure, the luster fell off when better things kept getting released with DR. So of course vet... sorry, "LTS players" were Evil greedy Entitled people for asking for T6 versions of the Vet ships, despite the fact that the Chimera and friends had no third Lieutenant seat nor any second Lieutenant Commander seats, and not a single specialization seat anywhere. So... if the Pathfinder is "objectively bad" within the current endgame meta, then the Chimera and siblings were objectively worse.
...
So basically... your definition of "entitlement" is: People asking for more than they paid for IF and ONLY if it doesn't personally benefit you (because if it's benefiting you it's just fixing an inadequacy that became clear with time, right?).
... Gotcha. I have read and understood the contents and context of your posts.
But hey, at least you can claim to not be "entitled" because you just offered this as a "suggestion" according to your thread title. It's not like you said this needs to be fixed, like you're entitled to this being changed as though it is the only right thing to do...
... oh wait.
Still, I'm sure you're being totally reasonable, unlike those evil vet... uh, "LTS Players" who do not deserve anything because they're selfish enough to ask for more than they purchased (you know, when it doesn't benefit you personally... because then it's obviously totally awesome and cool and reasonable! Cheers!
It's not the main idea, but one of them.
However, Tractor beam can be used.
Transport Warhead can't.
Also worth noting, every ship in the game, barring a couple of shuttles, can use Tractor Beam I. Being an Ensign ability makes even the most Science deficient ship capable of using it.
But with Transport Warhead, an ability inspired by Harry Kim's beaming of a Photon onto a Borg ship in ST: Voyager, no Intrepid variant can use it, being a Lt. Commander Intel ability.
Even the most advanced Pathfinder class can't reproduce what Ensign Kim did 30+ years earlier...
lol, the LTC seat matching the COM seat hasn't been mandated since they released the excelsior year 1. but this is only the 3rd dumbest thing ive read in this thread.
the second dumbest thing ive seen is people advocating for running 4 tac powers on this ship, a sci ship, a sci ship with 6 weapon slots. heres a clue, tac station powers only really buff whats in your weapon slots, but on an actually well set up sci ship, nothing in your weapon slots should be making much of a difference, you don't have the weapon power to spare anyway if you want to actually play to a sci ship's strengths. if you want to deal damage with a sci ship, you max out aux, max out partial gens, and slot sci skills and consoles and set bonuses that turn particles into damage. leave the weapons damage to ships actually optomized in it, that have 8 slots or can at least slot cannons.
the #1 dumbest thing ive seen is the professional forum arguers, that roll out their cute little entitlement meme. whats wrong, couldn't find any liberals to attack with your favorite little word online anywhere? the basis and reasoning for these changes was layed out clearly on page 1.
the power creep has passed the original tier 6 ships by, they are out of alinement and underpowered compared to all the tier 6 ships now getting LTC level hybrid seats, and more. explained in further detail here.
this same basic thing happened not that long ago to the galaxy dreadnaught. it was well behind the curve compared to all the other dreadnaughts, so it got buffed. these LT hybrid only tier 6 ships, and especially the early tier 6 lock box ships, are WELL behind the curve, a correction is due.
i don't even own most of these, so it would be pretty hard for me to be entitled, wanting them buffed, this is purely on principle.
I am not disagreeing, i've just stated some facts; my orion and romulan science captains couldn't care less if the Pathfinder gets Lt Cmdr sci intel hybrid. For the record i own the JHSS, that trait is nice on my T5-FU B'rel. And wanting previous released ships to be brought in line with the latest releases sound like entitlement to me; hell, i wanted my Fleet B'rel upgraded to have Lt cmdr uni hybrid instead of a Lt uni. I'll get this soon but i'm going to pay for it.
Cryptic made intel spec skills better than pilot and command that's why i don't think they " realized their error"; i believe they simply paced power creep, allowing ships with command and pilot hybrids at Lt Cmdr while ships with intel hybrid at Lt cmdr were introduced as ultra hard to get. Remember how long it took to have fleet versions for ships released with intel spec.
You talk about the galaxy dreadnaught that was well behind the curve when it was buffed, but you forget that move was monetized; if Cryptic can find away to monetize the buffs you are proposing they'll do it.
And about that 'must have 2 x EPtX' debate, most of all on a science ship, is no different from the "must have BFAW and APB for DPS". There are no must haves in this game, one template that applies to all ships and captains.
The ship is still pretty new and T6 already. Giving it the LtC science would make it way more appealing to buy, even considering that they randomly put it on sale with the Interior sometimes.
Not new enough; according to some sources there are 12 brand new ships ready to be sold. If Pathfinder is revised , dontdrunkimshoot's listed ships also need revision. Best thing to expect in the near future is a 3 science vessel pack/ one ship per faction, that must have some small advantage over older ships (for rommies and KDF it simply needs to be T6
That would be too much even for EA. There's no point in selling full price the same ship at the SAME Tier. They revisited the Intrepid by making a T6 one, they won't make a T6 one to revisit the T6 one that's out already. They may sell the same ship at different tiers, but they never, and never will, sell the same ship at the same tier.
I'd actually support the proposed changes to the other tier 6 intel non-specialist ships (wow, hope people understood that reference), and it probably wouldn't take too much effort to accomplish. Eleven ships seventeen if we count fleet ships seperately, and this would bring the Intel ships in line (# of specialist abilities wise anyway) with other T6 ships.
Cryptic doesn't even have to do all of them at once, one or two at a time until they are all finished, could even increase sales of the Intel non-specialist ships too...
Oh, with the T6 Battlecruisers having a Lt. Commander intel seat, this would be a good time for Cryptic to reconsider the previous Intel non-specialist ships with their obviously underwhelming Intel seat now...