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Suggestion: change Pathfinder's Intel seating from Lt Eng to LtC Sci
laferrari1
Member Posts: 434 Arc User
If you look at the boff setup, the Lt Engi/Intel is heavily gimped. You can't even get to use all Intel spec abilities, and as a result the Lt Universal is a false one.
At best, you can get to have 4 engineering powers on that ship: 2 are out for EPTX powers which are a must. If you wanna use Intel, you have to use the remaining 2 slots or just one, which leaves you with very little options.
Even worse, there's actually the chance that you don't even get to have a single engineering power if you give the Lt Uni to something else, like Tac.
However the LtC seat would be just perfect. Complete access to all abilities except rank III Cmdr powers and way more flexibility as there are plenty of science slots to accomodate what you need. As a result, you can still get to have decent survivability engineering wise by having all the times 2 or 4 powers available.
The LtC Sci hybrid setups have been around for a while: JHSS, Galaxy, Negh'Tev, D'Khellra, Samsar, Nandi, the two Sheshars, Xindi Olean, Xindi Ateleth, even the T6 Destroyer now and they're arguably the best ones that do not lock you out from half of specialization powers.
At best, you can get to have 4 engineering powers on that ship: 2 are out for EPTX powers which are a must. If you wanna use Intel, you have to use the remaining 2 slots or just one, which leaves you with very little options.
Even worse, there's actually the chance that you don't even get to have a single engineering power if you give the Lt Uni to something else, like Tac.
However the LtC seat would be just perfect. Complete access to all abilities except rank III Cmdr powers and way more flexibility as there are plenty of science slots to accomodate what you need. As a result, you can still get to have decent survivability engineering wise by having all the times 2 or 4 powers available.
The LtC Sci hybrid setups have been around for a while: JHSS, Galaxy, Negh'Tev, D'Khellra, Samsar, Nandi, the two Sheshars, Xindi Olean, Xindi Ateleth, even the T6 Destroyer now and they're arguably the best ones that do not lock you out from half of specialization powers.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Post edited by laferrari1 on
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can you say that again in front of a 1v1?
Come on seriously.
Arent you the one who was having fun pugging ESD noobs?Sounds like that build suits you just fine :rolleyes:
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Yeah I was.
The build works great, but the Lt Engi is still a liability. It could do so much better with Override 3 and a fourth engi slot.
With the Andromeda having a Lt. Commander specialist seat, it just makes sense that the Pathfinder should have come with one from the start.
Also, I've always wondered why the pathfinder was never capable of using Transport Warhead, Harry Kim did in Voyager some 30+ years earlier...
It would also free up the Eng slots which the Pathfinder has very few of to start with. (Not counting the Uni slot as it could go for Tac, Eng, or Sci)
And I'm still holding my breath for a T6 Nebula/Vesta/Wells with the following layout:
Lt.Cmdr Tac
Lt.Cmdr Eng/Intel
Cmdr Sci
Lt Uni
Ens Uni
This. So much this. I wondered as well why it couldn't use the transport warhead ability if Kim could against the Borg in the delta quadrant.
all non theme tier 6 ships getting a LTC is a great improvement, but far from what i would consider perfect. step 1 should be all the tier 6 ships with just a LT hybrid should have their hybrid seat upgraded to LTC immediately, especially the pathfinder.
i'll try to ignore how dumb that statement is, and just focus on mitigating the effects of the change. if the LTC sci was made the hybrid, you could just use the LT uni for sci, and gain the capability of using a LTC intel skill. every ship needs to be running at least 2 eng skills any way, so you would literally lose nothing if this were changed. well, unless you want 7 sci skills, 4 tac skills, 2 intel skills, and no eng skills, your build would be to fail to ever consider though.
for the rest of those LT hybrid only tier 6 ships-
pathfinder- LTC sci intel hybrid
Guardian- LTC sci intel hybrid
Mat'Ha- LTC eng intel hybrid
Aelahl- LTC tac intel hybrid
Dauntless- LTC tac intel hybrid
Sarr Theln- LTC tac intel hybrid
zindi lockbox ships and the new bug have a LTC and LT hybrid, so the rest of the lock box ships should too
Hazari- keep the LT tac intel hybrid, add LTC sci pilot hybrid
Benthan- keep the LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC tac command hybrid
Manasa- keep LT sci intel hybrid, add LTC eng pilot hybrid
Astika- keep LT eng command hybrid, add LTC tac pilot hybrid
Sheshar- on ether version, make the LT tac a hybrid of ether command or intel, depending on what LTC hybrid it has.
I totally support this. Three specializations are out and filling some old ship's slots would prevent them from being left behind. However Pathfinder has priority. The Lt. Intel seating is a heavy gimp, and there's no reason to not give the hybrid to the LtC science on a ship that's full of science slots already.
the galaxy had a LTC hybrid, and the defiant will have a LTC hybrid, the intrepid's current condition cannot stand.
Indeed! Plus, Kim 30 years ago transported a warhead in a borg probe.
Can 30 years later the Intrepid transport a warhead? (LtC Intel ability)
No it can't. Intrepid's intel seating has to be changed. It's actually canon breaking and performance gimping. Heavily.
I'm all for a change to the pathfinder. My sci will greatly appreciate being able to use better ability's and not feeling like I got jipped for buying it before the other ships started to come out.
Also that intel would be too powerful compared to command is kind of bogus.
If you know how to build a real good torpedo-centric ship, Concentrate Firepower III is EXTREMELY powerful.
With the new vet ship and its trait, even more so than ever before.
a vesta with like a command hybrid of at least LTC is starting to get over due. a sci ship is were command spec would REALLY be beneficial, not so much on modern cruisers
I doubt they'd do it.
They haven't after release and I doubt they will do that because people would complain and demand refunds. So the Intrepid will for all times be stuck with the layout it has now. But I fully support the OPs proposal, it needed to be changed accordingly to create a balance between the ships.
In my opinion, a T6 Nebula should feature CMDR Sci, LTC Eng/Intel, LTC Uni (upgraded Lt Uni), Lt Tac, Ens Sci
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They can easily make the change for the Fleet one only, the same way of how the C-Store Prometheus and Fleet Prometheus differ for example.
Bottom line is that Pathfinder desperately needs the LtC Intel on the Science slot. Lieutenant Intel/Engineering is both insufficient and a nuisance. If you pick up an Intel ability, the Lieutenant universal automatically becomes a false one. About running with just 1 engineering ability, well that's suicidal and not even an option worth considering.
The Dauntless also only has an Lt Sci/Intel hybrid, because it's not a full on 'spec' ship either.
I'd find the Pathfinder a whole lot more appealing if they did bump it up, though.
... and make you pay FULL PRICE for it.
You certainly won't get it for free.
Dauntless has the same problem indeed, but to a lesser extent. The seating is Lieutenant sci, while having a commander sci slot. By all means you can pick up 2 intel and still be solid science wise.
Pathfinder can't. It has more than enough science slots on its own, and little engineering which has to accomodate Intel as well.
As DDIS perfectly pointed out, the LtC sci makes sense. if you find yourself short on Science slots that way what's the problem? The Universal will finally be an actual universal and you can give it to science, while you can enjoy all the Intel abilities without worrying about killing your engineering seats.
The ship is already behind the Scryer, what's the problem in bumping up a stat that shouldn't have been like that from the very beginning? Intelligence is powerful, and quite fun to be honest. Not having even full access to them is a waste.
I agree with putting the intel slot into ltc sci, even with the uni lt slot on the pathfinder, having intel in lt engineering is not really efficient
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
However the Pathfinder can't keep its seating that way. If there's the potential of not having at all a profession ability that can be used on the ship, it's automatically bad. It locks you out from several combinations. Here are some examples:
Now: is that lieutenant universal an actual universal? No it's not, it's a false one: either you give it to engineering or your Pathfinder turns in awesome weaksauce.
And you can't even access all the Intelligence abilities.
And you can't use transport warhead like Kim did.
...it needs LtC science. It'd nullify all the issues that I've explained above, while making the Lt Uni a real universal.
Thanks for agreeing. I love Intrepid, I waited for a T6 version to finally have a better one and jumped on it, despite this huge fallacy.
I'm not accusing Cryptic of anything by the way, I suppose they didn't realize that every T6 ship that didn't have a commander hybrid needed their LtCs to be hybrid, until the JHSS came out: from there followed the Samsar, Galaxy, Xindi Olean (LtC Command), Xindi Ateleth (LtC Command), Negh'Tev, D'Khellra, the two Elachi Sheshars, even the Ferengi Nandi now.
Now that they finally found that out, it's time to look back and bring up to standard the ships that were... "unlucky" to come out first, one of them being the Pathfinder that, among all of them, had the worst treatment.
Of course, it *should* have been like this. The fact that it's not shows a real lack of forethought on Cryptic's part.
Or, they'll just Sheshar every ship for the next X amount of years... :rolleyes:
C'mon Cryptic ... paying customers deserve better.
Thanks to you as well!!