For the record, I have "religious beliefs". I'm not going to discuss what they are, but I just wanted to say that, to lead into my next point. It is...strange...to me how some people who also have "religious beliefs" object to something they think is "wrong" being in TV shows or movies they watch or games they play, while completely ignoring other things that their "religious beliefs" say are "wrong" in the very same movies or TV shows or video games. Take this game for example: extreme amounts of violence and killing. And yet, I have not heard anyone with "religious beliefs" objecting to that, even though that is just as "wrong" as anything else I *have* seen people object to. Very strange indeed.
My personal opinion: fiction is not the same thing as reality, so I do not treat it as such.
PS: I also find it funny how some in the older generation have a negative view of sex in modern TV shows, while being completely fine with wanton murder in the old westerns they watch.
The funny thing is, I don't like the episode in question here, or some of the others that express that sort of attitude. (I also don't consider TAS canon, but that's an entirely separate thing.) Yet as a fanfic writer, examining the effects it has when characters express those kinds of attitudes can be interesting.
From a writer's standpoint, holding the "utopia" up to scrutiny to see if it actually meets its ideals, and then pushing hard enough to see if it breaks, generates exactly the sort of tension that can make for good character development and plot. This what where TNG typically failed ("no drama between characters," and always pushing whatever the episode's message was without ever showing a credible opposition) and where DS9 mostly succeeded (both sides sometimes having merit, conflict between characters, and hypocrisy exposed, such as with Quark's famous AR-558 speech).
So that may give you an idea of why one person who doesn't subscribe to the "Roddenberry ideology" still finds something interesting in the show and continues to be a fan, even when there is disagreement.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Hey OP! By any chance were you offended by Stargate? I mean... aliens running around with names like Thor, Loki, Ra, Anubis... and those were ancient Norse and Egyptian gods (respectively).
Or what about the Marvel movies, that also had Thor, Loki, Odin...
Honestly, of all the reasons to quit... yours are... um... I'll just be blunt.
WTF you smoking? Its FICTION! ITS NOT REAL! If you are throwing a fit over an episode of TAS, you'd probably LOVE Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Hey OP! By any chance were you offended by Stargate? I mean... aliens running around with names like Thor, Loki, Ra, Anubis... and those were ancient Norse and Egyptian gods (respectively).
Or what about the Marvel movies, that also had Thor, Loki, Odin...
Honestly, of all the reasons to quit... yours are... um... I'll just be blunt.
WTF you smoking? Its FICTION! ITS NOT REAL! If you are throwing a fit over an episode of TAS, you'd probably LOVE Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Now, now, Rattler, some of us actually like that film...
Why would I rage? Outright laughter at your OP is a better response. I assume you're now going to go out into te world and decry GR Star Trek as a tool of Satan?:eek:;)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
For the record, I have "religious beliefs". I'm not going to discuss what they are, but I just wanted to say that, to lead into my next point. It is...strange...to me how some people who also have "religious beliefs" object to something they think is "wrong" being in TV shows or movies they watch or games they play, while completely ignoring other things that their "religious beliefs" say are "wrong" in the very same movies or TV shows or video games. Take this game for example: extreme amounts of violence and killing. And yet, I have not heard anyone with "religious beliefs" objecting to that, even though that is just as "wrong" as anything else I *have* seen people object to. Very strange indeed.
My personal opinion: fiction is not the same thing as reality, so I do not treat it as such.
PS: I also find it funny how some in the older generation have a negative view of sex in modern TV shows, while being completely fine with wanton murder in the old westerns they watch.
Stop now. You only destroy your ideals and you disgrace all of the rest of us who are conservatives when you resort to cruelty.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Don't hold the door open too long, you'll let other bugs in.
<waves>
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier gets a lot of bad press, but just remember this, batman and aliens just to name 2 other(blockbuster) movies that opened in theaters either the same weekend or within 1 week of it,so the theater owners wanted to get trek 5 out so they could get batman in(trek 5 only ran in theaters for 3 weeks),i should know b/c i saw both trek 5 & aliens on the same day, also shatner gets a bad rap for trying to make a good movie with less $$$$ that ST IV had, a special effects house that wasn't up to the task, AND to top it all off a teamsters strike in hollywood.
so while it isn't the best movie in trek history , lets see you do better with those limited resources
When did ESD zone chat puke in ten forward ? good question.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier gets a lot of bad press...
In the case of this thread, its more "What does God need with a Starship?" and less about the resources. If the OP felt insulted by an episode of TAS that had an entity posing as any kind of superior, religious being (Most likely some kind of alien posing as some entity or another), then he would most likely go nuts to find out there was a movie with that as well.
What insulted me about STV was the idea that Starfleet's finest crew could be trivially suborned by someone of whom they'd never heard before, simply by telling him of some trauma of theirs. Suddenly, all good sense gone! And when one of them recovers, he uses his inside knowledge of the ship to rescue his CO - and promptly runs into a stanchion he would have known full well was there, simply to provide "comic relief".
The opinions expressed in this editorial, are not representative of the STO community as a whole. The STO online community has always found pride in the philosophical diversity of it's members, as such, we wish you'd reconsider. You're welcome to stay, as we're glad to have you.
Paid for by the Committee To Advance God In All Things Star Trek.
Unless their name is Hillary Clinton right? The person you wish had a life ending disease. Your attempts at sounding like a nice guy are pretty hollow after that stuff.
1. A quick raid of Memory Alpha mentions that the crew of the Enterprise was supposed to meet and deal with "the better half" of Christianity's (Judaism's and Islam's, by extension) ultimate pairing, however, the censors at NBC weren't keen on it. However, as seemed to be popular at the time, those same censors had no problem with them interacting with the depicted half.
Check point #7 under "Background information - story and script". The original writer of the episode recounts how the plan was to meet the "good guys", however, the censors shot it down in seconds. Those same censors had, to the same writer in a different series, also shot down a scene of "moral" hubby-wifey intimacy, however they allowed him to depict "hubby-mistress" intimacy...
So the Censors were the ones who "edited" out morality and "edited" in the use of "evil" throughout the episode(s) of 70's TV.
2. Reread the synopsis again, please. "Lucien" didn't save humanity, but somehow he found it worthwhile to "save" the Enterprise, and attempt to warn them, multiple times, of their potential fate. He was then involved in the Megan's "little test" to see if Humanity had actually "advanced" enough to overcome the prejudice of the witch trials and be welcome in "the land of magic". A test that was passed with "flying colors", BTW.
3. As a "card carrying Christian" myself, and having been raised by the teachings of the Roman Catholic version of such, it was always drilled into my head that "Christian teachings / beliefs" are better than "pagan". The Head Prosecutor, and therefore the one who stood to gain the most if "Lucien" was banished, is Asmodeus. Straight-up depiction of a "pagan" being. Defense of "Lucien", therefore, is a "defense" of Christianity over paganism.
Granted, this does make the episode more a choice of "the better of two evils", from a purely religious standpoint. Still, the "big Guy upstairs" would be "pleased" that the Christian representative "won" in the end...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I think I understand the main objection - Satan in star trek. Which is obviously bad, but Apollo is fine I assume. It's only the OP's mythologies that are bad to be included, not Greek ones.
The "Light Bringer" and "Heretical Doctrine" accolades in STO aren't a coincidence either.
Rage all you like.
I must have missed the Masons in HoP. Anyone catch them?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
(sarcasm) Does this mean we have to beware of anything pro-Erik-van-Danikan (Chariots of the Gods; Gods from Outer Space; etc.) in STO?
(not sarcasm) Censors. Ah, yes. In "I Love Lucy", two things were forbidden: husband and wife seen sleeping in the same bed, and talking openly about pregnancy (rather than hinting at it; husband acts surprised that wife is pregnant? wasn't he involved?) Just one of the reasons I'm glad I never had to live through the 1950s (I was born in 1967) ... not that the 1970s were a huge improvement.
(sarcasm) Does this mean we have to beware of anything pro-Erik-van-Danikan (Chariots of the Gods; Gods from Outer Space; etc.) in STO?
(not sarcasm) Censors. Ah, yes. In "I Love Lucy", two things were forbidden: husband and wife seen sleeping in the same bed, and talking openly about pregnancy (rather than hinting at it; husband acts surprised that wife is pregnant? wasn't he involved?) Just one of the reasons I'm glad I never had to live through the 1950s (I was born in 1967) ... not that the 1970s were a huge improvement.
All part of the Hayes Code, introduced in 1922 which lasted to the mid to late 70's.
In the early 20's a US govt department was created to deal with narcotics. I's appointed Chief was one Harry J Anslinger, a rabid fundamentalist, who saw no problem in violating citizens rights, fraud, blackmail etc., as long as it was 'for the greater good'.
He put hollywood stars under 24/7 surveillance, then blackmailed the studios, into obeying his directives by threatening to put all their biggest stars in jail on 'morality' charges.
Basically what he demanded was...
1. A Morality Code for movies and later TV
2. The right to oversee scripts and edit them to remove references to drugs that didnt agree with his policy
3. The right to submit anti-drugs movie scripts to hollywood and have them automatically made at no cost to the govt.
One of the first was "High on the Range" in 1922/23.
Anslinger authorised numerous violations of constitutional rights, authored a number of movies with no factual statements in them, and basically set American culture back 50 years.
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
All part of the Hayes Code, introduced in 1922 which lasted to the mid to late 70's.
In the early 20's a US govt department was created to deal with narcotics. I's appointed Chief was one Harry J Anslinger, a rabid fundamentalist, who saw no problem in violating citizens rights, fraud, blackmail etc., as long as it was 'for the greater good'.
He put hollywood stars under 24/7 surveillance, then blackmailed the studios, into obeying his directives by threatening to put all their biggest stars in jail on 'morality' charges.
Basically what he demanded was...
1. A Morality Code for movies and later TV
2. The right to oversee scripts and edit them to remove references to drugs that didnt agree with his policy
3. The right to submit anti-drugs movie scripts to hollywood and have them automatically made at no cost to the govt.
One of the first was "High on the Range" in 1922/23.
Anslinger authorised numerous violations of constitutional rights, authored a number of movies with no factual statements in them, and basically set American culture back 50 years.
Ah, the Inhibition...
Now, maybe we should return to the topic, instead of trailing off into politics?
Comments
My personal opinion: fiction is not the same thing as reality, so I do not treat it as such.
PS: I also find it funny how some in the older generation have a negative view of sex in modern TV shows, while being completely fine with wanton murder in the old westerns they watch.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
From a writer's standpoint, holding the "utopia" up to scrutiny to see if it actually meets its ideals, and then pushing hard enough to see if it breaks, generates exactly the sort of tension that can make for good character development and plot. This what where TNG typically failed ("no drama between characters," and always pushing whatever the episode's message was without ever showing a credible opposition) and where DS9 mostly succeeded (both sides sometimes having merit, conflict between characters, and hypocrisy exposed, such as with Quark's famous AR-558 speech).
So that may give you an idea of why one person who doesn't subscribe to the "Roddenberry ideology" still finds something interesting in the show and continues to be a fan, even when there is disagreement.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
*Dies laughing* Well played Thay. Well played.
Hey OP! By any chance were you offended by Stargate? I mean... aliens running around with names like Thor, Loki, Ra, Anubis... and those were ancient Norse and Egyptian gods (respectively).
Or what about the Marvel movies, that also had Thor, Loki, Odin...
Honestly, of all the reasons to quit... yours are... um... I'll just be blunt.
WTF you smoking? Its FICTION! ITS NOT REAL! If you are throwing a fit over an episode of TAS, you'd probably LOVE Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Now, now, Rattler, some of us actually like that film...
Okay, fine, I'm the only one, but still! :P
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Why would I rage? Outright laughter at your OP is a better response. I assume you're now going to go out into te world and decry GR Star Trek as a tool of Satan?:eek:;)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I liked it too.
Well said, on many levels.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
BYE
Don't hold the door open too long, you'll let other bugs in.
<waves>
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"No matter where you go...there you are."
love that part XD
The power of [insert deity here] compels you!
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier gets a lot of bad press, but just remember this, batman and aliens just to name 2 other(blockbuster) movies that opened in theaters either the same weekend or within 1 week of it,so the theater owners wanted to get trek 5 out so they could get batman in(trek 5 only ran in theaters for 3 weeks),i should know b/c i saw both trek 5 & aliens on the same day, also shatner gets a bad rap for trying to make a good movie with less $$$$ that ST IV had, a special effects house that wasn't up to the task, AND to top it all off a teamsters strike in hollywood.
so while it isn't the best movie in trek history , lets see you do better with those limited resources
When did ESD zone chat puke in ten forward ? good question.
In the case of this thread, its more "What does God need with a Starship?" and less about the resources. If the OP felt insulted by an episode of TAS that had an entity posing as any kind of superior, religious being (Most likely some kind of alien posing as some entity or another), then he would most likely go nuts to find out there was a movie with that as well.
Meyer and Nimoy pretty much did.
EDIT: I also forgot to include the reaction image to OP.
I'm laughing so hard on the inside now. Door, TRIBBLE OP. :rolleyes:
Unless their name is Hillary Clinton right? The person you wish had a life ending disease. Your attempts at sounding like a nice guy are pretty hollow after that stuff.
1. A quick raid of Memory Alpha mentions that the crew of the Enterprise was supposed to meet and deal with "the better half" of Christianity's (Judaism's and Islam's, by extension) ultimate pairing, however, the censors at NBC weren't keen on it. However, as seemed to be popular at the time, those same censors had no problem with them interacting with the depicted half.
Check point #7 under "Background information - story and script". The original writer of the episode recounts how the plan was to meet the "good guys", however, the censors shot it down in seconds. Those same censors had, to the same writer in a different series, also shot down a scene of "moral" hubby-wifey intimacy, however they allowed him to depict "hubby-mistress" intimacy...
So the Censors were the ones who "edited" out morality and "edited" in the use of "evil" throughout the episode(s) of 70's TV.
2. Reread the synopsis again, please. "Lucien" didn't save humanity, but somehow he found it worthwhile to "save" the Enterprise, and attempt to warn them, multiple times, of their potential fate. He was then involved in the Megan's "little test" to see if Humanity had actually "advanced" enough to overcome the prejudice of the witch trials and be welcome in "the land of magic". A test that was passed with "flying colors", BTW.
3. As a "card carrying Christian" myself, and having been raised by the teachings of the Roman Catholic version of such, it was always drilled into my head that "Christian teachings / beliefs" are better than "pagan". The Head Prosecutor, and therefore the one who stood to gain the most if "Lucien" was banished, is Asmodeus. Straight-up depiction of a "pagan" being. Defense of "Lucien", therefore, is a "defense" of Christianity over paganism.
Granted, this does make the episode more a choice of "the better of two evils", from a purely religious standpoint. Still, the "big Guy upstairs" would be "pleased" that the Christian representative "won" in the end...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
But what is the second bit?
I must have missed the Masons in HoP. Anyone catch them?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
(not sarcasm) Censors. Ah, yes. In "I Love Lucy", two things were forbidden: husband and wife seen sleeping in the same bed, and talking openly about pregnancy (rather than hinting at it; husband acts surprised that wife is pregnant? wasn't he involved?) Just one of the reasons I'm glad I never had to live through the 1950s (I was born in 1967) ... not that the 1970s were a huge improvement.
All part of the Hayes Code, introduced in 1922 which lasted to the mid to late 70's.
In the early 20's a US govt department was created to deal with narcotics. I's appointed Chief was one Harry J Anslinger, a rabid fundamentalist, who saw no problem in violating citizens rights, fraud, blackmail etc., as long as it was 'for the greater good'.
He put hollywood stars under 24/7 surveillance, then blackmailed the studios, into obeying his directives by threatening to put all their biggest stars in jail on 'morality' charges.
Basically what he demanded was...
1. A Morality Code for movies and later TV
2. The right to oversee scripts and edit them to remove references to drugs that didnt agree with his policy
3. The right to submit anti-drugs movie scripts to hollywood and have them automatically made at no cost to the govt.
One of the first was "High on the Range" in 1922/23.
Anslinger authorised numerous violations of constitutional rights, authored a number of movies with no factual statements in them, and basically set American culture back 50 years.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Ah, the Inhibition...
Now, maybe we should return to the topic, instead of trailing off into politics?
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Indeed. And to put it all to rest, they finally did find God. He just needed a cab.