but it happens more than it should. I cant set up each player's ship before an ISA or *as stated* fly it for him or move him to safe range in CCA. I can't watch probes and kill everything else in KSA. this goes back to my thread of "what fail conditions have really done".
the short of it was fail conditions are making the playerbase hate each other, and the ones who are experienced and can run just about any queue don't want to teach others because if/when they fail it isn't worth the time or effort.
This is a good insight and deserves its own thread really. Its not fail conditions alone though they definitely are contributors.
As I see it there is an ongoing shift in mmo players and developers are struggling to deal with it. Much like it is impossible (or nearly so) to balance pve and PvP and the best games of both types focus on only one or the other. Traditional mmo players were the big guild group and be social, learn from your peers style. Over time as the player base has expanded and games evolved we are getting many more " solo all the things" people and "I'm just here 'cause my friends are here" people, and "weeeee I like making things go boom" people.
Trying to be everything to everyone is hard if not impossible.
To quote a great line from classic literature "the center cannot hold". There are some solid compromises being made but with the current state of games a lot of the responsibility still lies on the players themselves. Many of whom prefer to be selfish jerkwads.
Fail conditions just give the selfish people and the short tempered people an excuse to rage. That is toxic behavior that spreads from player to!player like a disease. Person a joins a queue in a good mood, it goes bad people rage and insult, they fail and he's not in as good a mood anymore. Tries again. Now, if he gets a good pug on the second go he's likely to let the bad run drop out of mind and enjoy himself. Two bad ones in a row and he's more likely to spread the bad feelings by joining in the arguing or just log out or possibly not do queues. All three are negative outcomes for game content that is focused on teaming (remember this is queue specific not story specific, so the goal of this content not all sto content is team/social).
The fails make this vicious cycle much more common and make some of the attacks more biting because there is the double sting of peer condemnation and game mechanic stick (lower rewards).
but it happens more than it should. I cant set up each player's ship before an ISA or *as stated* fly it for him or move him to safe range in CCA. I can't watch probes and kill everything else in KSA. this goes back to my thread of "what fail conditions have really done".
the short of it was fail conditions are making the playerbase hate each other, and the ones who are experienced and can run just about any queue don't want to teach others because if/when they fail it isn't worth the time or effort.
This part isn't true, there is plenty of player knowledge at the finger tips and, many are willing to help those who want it.
It's those who are unwilling to accept help and, to lazy to do any research to further their own experience, that keep it where it is!
Than, come and create threads like these, to complain about something can be easily remedied by the players.
I will probably get flamed for this but beh who cares.
So here it goes:
I will fail on PURPOSE one or all STFs if:
-I say hi or hello folks,how is everyone today? in chat and no one has the decency to respond.
THAT IS STRIKE 1
-Ask in chat,:are we doing the optional?, and no one responds.
THAT IS STRIKE 2
-I say in chat *what a talkative bunch,thanks for the warm welcome* or something like that...depending on my mood that day you will get a semi sarcastic comment or maybe a full blown sarcasm Pulitzeer award winner phrase that would make Stephen King proud,and in response i get some lip from you or derogative remarks towards my persona.
THAT IS STRIKE 3
You are out,i will do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING in my power to TRIBBLE up the STF.
Now you can judge me all you want but this is an mmo and if you cant even muster effort to spare 3 seconds to type the word "Hi" or "Hello" you shouldnt really be here in the first place.
It is clear that this post, from my good ol' friend Plasmanugget, is designed to incite rage but I actually agree with most of what he is saying except we have different "cause to fail reasons". My step 1 & 2 are pretty much the same, I would say hi or as in the case on a map like Grethor I would say which side I'm going to and which end I will close rifts on. If no response (which is most of the time) I always respond with "Good Talk".
Where I have sometimes let missions fail is on maps like Khitomer. If I am on the right side and there is nobody watching probes on the left side and I say something in chat about watching the probes and get no response, I will shoot across and destroy them and then type in caps that we nearly failed. If nobody goes across the second time and the probes are nearly at the centre gate, I will stop and cloak and type a message ready to catch those who manage to warp out 0.12 milliseconds after a failure which states: "We failed due to <Player1>, <Player2> not destroying the probes on their side of the map. If you don't know who the failure condition is, I suggest you practise more in normal difficulty."
And I guess the other times I let a mission failure would be in a map like ISA where someone is doing less than 1500-2000 DPS (depends on the situation but almost always definitely when under 1000 DPS) for a couple of reasons. 1) Any person under 1000 DPS will normally get an AFK penalty and since the system doesn't explain properly why the player received the penalty it wont be a lessoned learned & 2) Any person with that DPS coming into an advanced queue puts so much pressure on the other 4 people to make up for the DPS they aren't contributing which isn't fair and won't do the person who is underperforming any good by giving him the rewards for a mission that he/she isn't experienced enough to do.
So in conclusion, Plasmanugget, I'm happy to see you have found something else to troll on since you can't about the lag anymore but more important, Plasma is right, this is an MMO and we are playing team content which does require comms between players. People who have their chat minimised or don't respond to in-mission strategy chat is liability to the team.
It is clear that this post, from my good ol' friend Plasmanugget, is designed to incite rage but I actually agree with most of what he is saying except we have different "cause to fail reasons". My step 1 & 2 are pretty much the same, I would say hi or as in the case on a map like Grethor I would say which side I'm going to and which end I will close rifts on. If no response (which is most of the time) I always respond with "Good Talk".
Where I have sometimes let missions fail is on maps like Khitomer. If I am on the right side and there is nobody watching probes on the left side and I say something in chat about watching the probes and get no response, I will shoot across and destroy them and then type in caps that we nearly failed. If nobody goes across the second time and the probes are nearly at the centre gate, I will stop and cloak and type a message ready to catch those who manage to warp out 0.12 milliseconds after a failure which states: "We failed due to <Player1>, <Player2> not destroying the probes on their side of the map. If you don't know who the failure condition is, I suggest you practise more in normal difficulty."
And I guess the other times I let a mission failure would be in a map like ISA where someone is doing less than 1500-2000 DPS (depends on the situation but almost always definitely when under 1000 DPS) for a couple of reasons. 1) Any person under 1000 DPS will normally get an AFK penalty and since the system doesn't explain properly why the player received the penalty it wont be a lessoned learned & 2) Any person with that DPS coming into an advanced queue puts so much pressure on the other 4 people to make up for the DPS they aren't contributing which isn't fair and won't do the person who is underperforming any good by giving him the rewards for a mission that he/she isn't experienced enough to do.
So in conclusion, Plasmanugget, I'm happy to see you have found something else to troll on since you can't about the lag anymore but more important, Plasma is right, this is an MMO and we are playing team content which does require comms between players. People who have their chat minimised or don't respond to in-mission strategy chat is liability to the team.
I don't have even half the problem with your reasons as opposed to Plasmanugget.
He does it out of spite for a lack of response to a hello, you seem to at least have some proper reasons and from what you say, intend to have someone understand what they may have done wrong, either as an individual or as a team, to cause the failure.
As for ISA pugs, I am astounded by how pretty much nobody uses the 10% generator method anymore, did I miss something, did that strategy become obsolete or did pug folks just become that much more idiotic?
As for ISA pugs, I am astounded by how pretty much nobody uses the 10% generator method anymore, did I miss something, did that strategy become obsolete or did pug folks just become that much more idiotic?
Simple now, as of these times and days, they are led to believe that opening their wallett and upgrading everything to epic level, will make them gods what's teamwork and strategy ? Not in their dictionary lol
Simple now, as of these times and days, they are led to believe that opening their wallett and upgrading everything to epic level, will make them gods what's teamwork and strategy ? Not in their dictionary lol
Seems to me the DPS culture in this game has created that mentality. Watching people with gobs of DPS just obliterating everything in sight, wanting to do the same. Thinking they can because the last run was with a 30k upper guy who carried the team.
i hatebeeing punished for other peoples playstily I CANNOT CHANGE OR IMPACT ON.
if someone doesnt fly to safe distance in crystalline advanced : i cannot do anything about him dying, cause i have to fly safe distance.
i cant heal or buff him/her.
i cannot pull him with me
so please stop ruining MY EFFORD and REWARD for sth i didnt do wrong or do better. other peoples deaths in cca are ievitable for me: i cannot change it.
i can yell at them but i cannot take control of their ship.
i cannot make people play better i just cannot.
stop ruining my reward for other ppls stupidity.
if 3/10 die in cca, take THEIR REWARD AWAY. the reward of THOSE THREE (or more) THAT DIES.
its no need for cancelling the stf at all. take their reward, THEY DIED, not me.
MMO does mean: combined efford NOT combined general punishment.
if you define MMO the latter way, you are ruining the social aspect of the game. cause it leads to frustration from player towards players. (like me now, i really hate 99% of my teammates because they ruin MY LOOT I DID EARN BECAUSE I DIDNT DIE)
mmo means combined efford, not general punishment.
CCA is not a combined efford when it comes to the fail condition: i cannot do any efford to stop a dumb player dying.
its not effordable for me to help him not die (without risking to die as well)
STOP THAT FAIL CONDITIONS IN ADVANCED THEY RUIN THE WHOLE STF GAMEPLAY.
move those to elite, and reduce overall reward in adv by 10%. no fail conditions (especially if they dont reflect a combined efford)
(ps: combined efford is not the same as "additive single efford" my friends: CCA fail condition is a "single efford, added up to a team" everyone has to not die - for himself - then its added up, if 7 or more were able to do this, its not combined efford, its single efford added up)
Seems to me the DPS culture in this game has created that mentality. Watching people with gobs of DPS just obliterating everything in sight, wanting to do the same. Thinking they can because the last run was with a 30k upper guy who carried the team.
That is DPS "noobness", which may be an understandable mistake at the earlier stages : a false sense of security and power ( which brings profit btw lol ).
Later, they'll realize that they still need a team and that wfp, tf, ef, sf are not type of files that people send each other in a private DPS-channel run :P
That is DPS "noobness", which may be an understandable mistake at the earlier stages : a false sense of security and power ( which brings profit btw lol ).
Later, they'll realize that they still need a team and that wfp, tf, ef, sf are not type of files that people send each other in a private DPS-channel run :P
Indeed. 'DPS covers up a multitude of sins.' But not all of them. Even in the (mid) DPS Channels some minimal coordination is usally required, like what side you're taking, and things like wfp, yeah.
Still, I maintain that anyone entering a PUG with any sort of expectation -- even the hope to chat -- is setting himself/herself up for certified frustration (sometimes culminating in willful acts of sabotage, as seen in this thread). Expect nothing, contribute everything. I know, LOL, that sounds a bit like 'Buy low, sell high!' But seriously, folks, divest yourself of expectation, and I'm sure you'll have a better time of it.
And I guess the other times I let a mission failure would be in a map like ISA where someone is doing less than 1500-2000 DPS (depends on the situation but almost always definitely when under 1000 DPS) for a couple of reasons. 1) Any person under 1000 DPS will normally get an AFK penalty and since the system doesn't explain properly why the player received the penalty it wont be a lessoned learned & 2) Any person with that DPS coming into an advanced queue puts so much pressure on the other 4 people to make up for the DPS they aren't contributing which isn't fair and won't do the person who is underperforming any good by giving him the rewards for a mission that he/she isn't experienced enough to do. .
I agree someone doing that low dps should not be playing advanced missions as they are putting all the pressure to complete the mission on the other 4 members of the team, but by allowing it to fail because you say its not fair that guy is not pulling his own weight, what about the other 3 people you are letting down ? is it fair to them ?. Remember it takes 5 players to launch these missions and causing a map to fail because 1 player is not up to the task isn't fair on the other 3 who may be.
My feelings are its never right to cause a match to fail, you entered that match, so play it to the best of you're abilities if its not enough and the rest of the team weren't good enough well at least you can say i tried and then may be try to educate those players in a nice way why it failed.
Yeah its frustrating playing with players who are just not ready, where missions fail within 10-60 secs of the timer starting, thats why i've stopped pugging advanced due to the auto-fail and i'd imagine thats also why a lot of queues are also empty. People don't want the Cryptic model of chance put into actual live game time sure you could fail optionals in the past but still complete the mission so yeah there was still chance but ! no bam ! game over you failed now on you're merry way and here's a double whammy of a cd on that PvE mission just because. Its bad enough with Doffing/R&D and Upgrading. Failed optionals should have the same effect as they do in normals and thats a loss of reward payout at the end, less marks and less dil added to that equation.
Personally i think Cryptic dropped the ball big time with the changes they made to the PvE queues and difficulty which launched with Delta Rising. They should have left normal alone and the old Elites should have been the new advanced and then for those wanting a higher level of difficulty they should have created Elites for all missions with the auto-fail which i believe is what a lot of Elite players were calling for. Well the harder difficulty anyway
I've never understood the constant need to win every time. Sure, winning is fun, but losing is a realistic possibility in any combat scenario. A few losses here or there won't hurt you, unless you have an easily wounded pride. If the groups you're in fail too often though.. maybe you should look around for other people?
I've never understood the constant need to win every time. Sure, winning is fun, but losing is a realistic possibility in any combat scenario. A few losses here or there won't hurt you, unless you have an easily wounded pride. If the groups you're in fail too often though.. maybe you should look around for other people?
Losing isn't all bad, however when it comes to pugging and the complete unknown of how good or bad the players you are teaming with are, then having an auto-fail condition kinda kills the public queue and principal of random teaming, hence why so many queues are likely empty. (And Dev's its not a reporting error as you would have us believe).
Private/Public channels are an option where you know the standard of player is going to guarantee a successful run but not everyone wants or has access/knowledge of these channels. I am a member of several very good PvE channels by invitation, but sometimes (Pre-DR) it was quicker to jump into a Pug and farm marks and dil than try to put a team together.
Now its not worth the time or effort doing a Pug as theres no likelyhood of being able to do this as hit the trigger for failure conditions and thats it. No chance to complete the mission, you're thrown out the map and hit with a 30min-1hr cd and that content becomes time gated before having another shot at it.
Thats the frustration i think many have, trigger the auto-fail and bam out you go. I've been in a Khitomer Space where i've cleared both transformers and just started on the gate. Nice amount of time left on the clock optional was a given, games going really well then a probe on the op side is let through as the defender had a rush of blood to the head and decided to try take on 2 spheres a cube and defend against probes. 7 mins into the match wasted and nothing to show for it but a PvE queue saying you can replay in 30 mins. Why should we lose all the reward, time, enjoyment of the game and be penalised because of that 1 persons mistake. Sure I'll accept a loss of marks and a small dil reduction as a end match reward but to have nothing, well that just plain sucks.
I've never understood the constant need to win every time. Sure, winning is fun, but losing is a realistic possibility in any combat scenario. A few losses here or there won't hurt you, unless you have an easily wounded pride. If the groups you're in fail too often though.. maybe you should look around for other people?
It isn't about winning every time. Ironically, though, the fail conditions have little to no effect on premades, which many tout as the way to go to avoid fails.
Yet at the same time, the fails can be arbitrary and irrelevant to the actual meat of the fight. Preventing nanites from healing the transformers is a good objective. But having them heal it sets you back and forces you to change your focus to clearing them out and trying again. It was a soft fail in itself and there is no reason to shut down the game right there, because you lost marks for that fail, yet nothing about that prevents you from continuing, the extra time required is its own penalty for failure. Who didn't have 30+ minute ISEs because people were unable to do that?
However learning from failure is something most people do. When the game kicks you out and completely wastes your time already spent in the queue, then wastes it further with another asinine 30m cooldown, it really doesn't teach anyone anything besides "go play something else."
Other games punish failure with a reset of the boss and force you to do it again till you get it right. STO for some reason thinks you should be encouraged to log off the game because it just wants to waste your time instead.
I've never understood the constant need to win every time. Sure, winning is fun, but losing is a realistic possibility in any combat scenario. A few losses here or there won't hurt you, unless you have an easily wounded pride. If the groups you're in fail too often though.. maybe you should look around for other people?
Sounds like you're avoiding failure by running with premades. What fun is it if you're not constantly failing?
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I wouldn't say it's about wounded pride exclusively. From my experience, it's more about wasting time. Some people have very limited playtime so failing a match can be frustrating when they game is polluted with waiting on cooldowns.
This. So much this. This and along with the constant nerfs the game looks more and more of a waste of time where you "played" some time yet you feel you havent accomplished anything
And about responding to a hi/hello in a team. Wont quote all the posts back and forth, but has anyone occured that some ppl may not be able to respond? Now I usually do say hi back, but on often ocassions I am unable becouse of a stupid bug wich Cryptic seems to ignore since its not critical or the players benefits from it. When I alt+tab the game, and I usually do that alot, sometimes I get a bug that I cant type anything in chat and also in exchange the keys are doubled linked (i.e. if a press W in exchange window the char moves aswell). Now the bug clears with a relog, but you cant do that in a teamed mission since it may TRIBBLE up the others. So for that mission you cant type in chat nor hi, nor even a gg at the end
I will probably get flamed for this but beh who cares.
So here it goes:
I will fail on PURPOSE one or all STFs if:
-I say hi or hello folks,how is everyone today? in chat and no one has the decency to respond.
THAT IS STRIKE 1
-Ask in chat,:are we doing the optional?, and no one responds.
THAT IS STRIKE 2
-I say in chat *what a talkative bunch,thanks for the warm welcome* or something like that...depending on my mood that day you will get a semi sarcastic comment or maybe a full blown sarcasm Pulitzeer award winner phrase that would make Stephen King proud,and in response i get some lip from you or derogative remarks towards my persona.
THAT IS STRIKE 3
You are out,i will do EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING in my power to TRIBBLE up the STF.
Now you can judge me all you want but this is an mmo and if you cant even muster effort to spare 3 seconds to type the word "Hi" or "Hello" you shouldnt really be here in the first place.
Decency? Chat is optional. You're there to do the mission. If somebody doesn't say "hello", maybe they have a chat disabled.
You have no decency trying to fail the missions. In fact, that is trolling.
I care not for your personal issues, or what you call indecent. I call what you doing stupid. Indecent enough for you?
You're a troll. Simple as that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The beast at Tanagra.
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh. Kiteo, his eyes closed. Chenza at court, the court of silence. Darmok on the ocean.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
No, the just the intentional losses. The other two categories can lose (1. trying, but not being good enough/not knowing how/making mistakes/etc; 2. if people are trying to be carried, there isn't a full group working toward the goal. increasing the odds of failure.), but they haven't set out to deliberately lose.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Comments
This is a good insight and deserves its own thread really. Its not fail conditions alone though they definitely are contributors.
As I see it there is an ongoing shift in mmo players and developers are struggling to deal with it. Much like it is impossible (or nearly so) to balance pve and PvP and the best games of both types focus on only one or the other. Traditional mmo players were the big guild group and be social, learn from your peers style. Over time as the player base has expanded and games evolved we are getting many more " solo all the things" people and "I'm just here 'cause my friends are here" people, and "weeeee I like making things go boom" people.
Trying to be everything to everyone is hard if not impossible.
To quote a great line from classic literature "the center cannot hold". There are some solid compromises being made but with the current state of games a lot of the responsibility still lies on the players themselves. Many of whom prefer to be selfish jerkwads.
Fail conditions just give the selfish people and the short tempered people an excuse to rage. That is toxic behavior that spreads from player to!player like a disease. Person a joins a queue in a good mood, it goes bad people rage and insult, they fail and he's not in as good a mood anymore. Tries again. Now, if he gets a good pug on the second go he's likely to let the bad run drop out of mind and enjoy himself. Two bad ones in a row and he's more likely to spread the bad feelings by joining in the arguing or just log out or possibly not do queues. All three are negative outcomes for game content that is focused on teaming (remember this is queue specific not story specific, so the goal of this content not all sto content is team/social).
The fails make this vicious cycle much more common and make some of the attacks more biting because there is the double sting of peer condemnation and game mechanic stick (lower rewards).
This part isn't true, there is plenty of player knowledge at the finger tips and, many are willing to help those who want it.
It's those who are unwilling to accept help and, to lazy to do any research to further their own experience, that keep it where it is!
Than, come and create threads like these, to complain about something can be easily remedied by the players.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
It is clear that this post, from my good ol' friend Plasmanugget, is designed to incite rage but I actually agree with most of what he is saying except we have different "cause to fail reasons". My step 1 & 2 are pretty much the same, I would say hi or as in the case on a map like Grethor I would say which side I'm going to and which end I will close rifts on. If no response (which is most of the time) I always respond with "Good Talk".
Where I have sometimes let missions fail is on maps like Khitomer. If I am on the right side and there is nobody watching probes on the left side and I say something in chat about watching the probes and get no response, I will shoot across and destroy them and then type in caps that we nearly failed. If nobody goes across the second time and the probes are nearly at the centre gate, I will stop and cloak and type a message ready to catch those who manage to warp out 0.12 milliseconds after a failure which states: "We failed due to <Player1>, <Player2> not destroying the probes on their side of the map. If you don't know who the failure condition is, I suggest you practise more in normal difficulty."
And I guess the other times I let a mission failure would be in a map like ISA where someone is doing less than 1500-2000 DPS (depends on the situation but almost always definitely when under 1000 DPS) for a couple of reasons. 1) Any person under 1000 DPS will normally get an AFK penalty and since the system doesn't explain properly why the player received the penalty it wont be a lessoned learned & 2) Any person with that DPS coming into an advanced queue puts so much pressure on the other 4 people to make up for the DPS they aren't contributing which isn't fair and won't do the person who is underperforming any good by giving him the rewards for a mission that he/she isn't experienced enough to do.
So in conclusion, Plasmanugget, I'm happy to see you have found something else to troll on since you can't about the lag anymore but more important, Plasma is right, this is an MMO and we are playing team content which does require comms between players. People who have their chat minimised or don't respond to in-mission strategy chat is liability to the team.
I don't have even half the problem with your reasons as opposed to Plasmanugget.
He does it out of spite for a lack of response to a hello, you seem to at least have some proper reasons and from what you say, intend to have someone understand what they may have done wrong, either as an individual or as a team, to cause the failure.
As for ISA pugs, I am astounded by how pretty much nobody uses the 10% generator method anymore, did I miss something, did that strategy become obsolete or did pug folks just become that much more idiotic?
Simple now, as of these times and days, they are led to believe that opening their wallett and upgrading everything to epic level, will make them gods what's teamwork and strategy ? Not in their dictionary lol
Seems to me the DPS culture in this game has created that mentality. Watching people with gobs of DPS just obliterating everything in sight, wanting to do the same. Thinking they can because the last run was with a 30k upper guy who carried the team.
what does (efford) mean ?
Later, they'll realize that they still need a team and that wfp, tf, ef, sf are not type of files that people send each other in a private DPS-channel run :P
Indeed. 'DPS covers up a multitude of sins.' But not all of them.
Still, I maintain that anyone entering a PUG with any sort of expectation -- even the hope to chat -- is setting himself/herself up for certified frustration (sometimes culminating in willful acts of sabotage, as seen in this thread). Expect nothing, contribute everything. I know, LOL, that sounds a bit like 'Buy low, sell high!' But seriously, folks, divest yourself of expectation, and I'm sure you'll have a better time of it.
I see what you did there...
I agree someone doing that low dps should not be playing advanced missions as they are putting all the pressure to complete the mission on the other 4 members of the team, but by allowing it to fail because you say its not fair that guy is not pulling his own weight, what about the other 3 people you are letting down ? is it fair to them ?. Remember it takes 5 players to launch these missions and causing a map to fail because 1 player is not up to the task isn't fair on the other 3 who may be.
My feelings are its never right to cause a match to fail, you entered that match, so play it to the best of you're abilities if its not enough and the rest of the team weren't good enough well at least you can say i tried and then may be try to educate those players in a nice way why it failed.
Yeah its frustrating playing with players who are just not ready, where missions fail within 10-60 secs of the timer starting, thats why i've stopped pugging advanced due to the auto-fail and i'd imagine thats also why a lot of queues are also empty. People don't want the Cryptic model of chance put into actual live game time sure you could fail optionals in the past but still complete the mission so yeah there was still chance but ! no bam ! game over you failed now on you're merry way and here's a double whammy of a cd on that PvE mission just because. Its bad enough with Doffing/R&D and Upgrading. Failed optionals should have the same effect as they do in normals and thats a loss of reward payout at the end, less marks and less dil added to that equation.
Personally i think Cryptic dropped the ball big time with the changes they made to the PvE queues and difficulty which launched with Delta Rising. They should have left normal alone and the old Elites should have been the new advanced and then for those wanting a higher level of difficulty they should have created Elites for all missions with the auto-fail which i believe is what a lot of Elite players were calling for. Well the harder difficulty anyway
Losing isn't all bad, however when it comes to pugging and the complete unknown of how good or bad the players you are teaming with are, then having an auto-fail condition kinda kills the public queue and principal of random teaming, hence why so many queues are likely empty. (And Dev's its not a reporting error as you would have us believe).
Private/Public channels are an option where you know the standard of player is going to guarantee a successful run but not everyone wants or has access/knowledge of these channels. I am a member of several very good PvE channels by invitation, but sometimes (Pre-DR) it was quicker to jump into a Pug and farm marks and dil than try to put a team together.
Now its not worth the time or effort doing a Pug as theres no likelyhood of being able to do this as hit the trigger for failure conditions and thats it. No chance to complete the mission, you're thrown out the map and hit with a 30min-1hr cd and that content becomes time gated before having another shot at it.
Thats the frustration i think many have, trigger the auto-fail and bam out you go. I've been in a Khitomer Space where i've cleared both transformers and just started on the gate. Nice amount of time left on the clock optional was a given, games going really well then a probe on the op side is let through as the defender had a rush of blood to the head and decided to try take on 2 spheres a cube and defend against probes. 7 mins into the match wasted and nothing to show for it but a PvE queue saying you can replay in 30 mins. Why should we lose all the reward, time, enjoyment of the game and be penalised because of that 1 persons mistake. Sure I'll accept a loss of marks and a small dil reduction as a end match reward but to have nothing, well that just plain sucks.
It isn't about winning every time. Ironically, though, the fail conditions have little to no effect on premades, which many tout as the way to go to avoid fails.
Yet at the same time, the fails can be arbitrary and irrelevant to the actual meat of the fight. Preventing nanites from healing the transformers is a good objective. But having them heal it sets you back and forces you to change your focus to clearing them out and trying again. It was a soft fail in itself and there is no reason to shut down the game right there, because you lost marks for that fail, yet nothing about that prevents you from continuing, the extra time required is its own penalty for failure. Who didn't have 30+ minute ISEs because people were unable to do that?
However learning from failure is something most people do. When the game kicks you out and completely wastes your time already spent in the queue, then wastes it further with another asinine 30m cooldown, it really doesn't teach anyone anything besides "go play something else."
Other games punish failure with a reset of the boss and force you to do it again till you get it right. STO for some reason thinks you should be encouraged to log off the game because it just wants to waste your time instead.
Sounds like you're avoiding failure by running with premades. What fun is it if you're not constantly failing?
This. So much this. This and along with the constant nerfs the game looks more and more of a waste of time where you "played" some time yet you feel you havent accomplished anything
And about responding to a hi/hello in a team. Wont quote all the posts back and forth, but has anyone occured that some ppl may not be able to respond? Now I usually do say hi back, but on often ocassions I am unable becouse of a stupid bug wich Cryptic seems to ignore since its not critical or the players benefits from it. When I alt+tab the game, and I usually do that alot, sometimes I get a bug that I cant type anything in chat and also in exchange the keys are doubled linked (i.e. if a press W in exchange window the char moves aswell). Now the bug clears with a relog, but you cant do that in a teamed mission since it may TRIBBLE up the others. So for that mission you cant type in chat nor hi, nor even a gg at the end
Decency? Chat is optional. You're there to do the mission. If somebody doesn't say "hello", maybe they have a chat disabled.
You have no decency trying to fail the missions. In fact, that is trolling.
I care not for your personal issues, or what you call indecent. I call what you doing stupid. Indecent enough for you?
You're a troll. Simple as that.
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh. Kiteo, his eyes closed. Chenza at court, the court of silence. Darmok on the ocean.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
No, the just the intentional losses. The other two categories can lose (1. trying, but not being good enough/not knowing how/making mistakes/etc; 2. if people are trying to be carried, there isn't a full group working toward the goal. increasing the odds of failure.), but they haven't set out to deliberately lose.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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