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DPS-League Statement

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  • xtern1tyxtern1ty Member Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Sigh, going to be a long day...

    This sort of stuff is why we got a service and teaming chan of our own where everyone can enjoy a team and help each other when available without bickering about numbers. Hope this keeps civil, ik many high DPS'rs who are nice but this does not look too friendly.. mods, keep an eye out.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Does it really matter? From what I can tell, this whole thing only really affects the +75k folks. If someone in the lower tiers continually parse lower than their submitted parse, they essentially disqualify themselves, no? So unless they always run with Recluse nannies, they're going to end up getting sifted back into the appropriate channels.

    So this appears to be drama among the top record holders. Do you guys really want to publicly fight over your records? It's just embarrassing for those of us regular members of the channels. If you're going to publicly argue about records like this, you're just lending credence to the anti-DPS naysayers who say we're all in it for the epeen. :(
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    You can keep your DPS League, I have nothing against a group of people trying to improve themselves, but why does this need to be so public? It sets an unreasonable standard for those who just want to play a fun game.

    I'm assuming you're talking about the presence of the DPS channels not this drama.

    In which case, I'd point out the reason many of us join these channels (and channels like PublicEliteSTFs) in the first place is because there's way too many people who don't meet reasonable standards, by which I mean "pull your own weight in your team".

    Frankly, that's why public queues died. When it became more difficult to compensate for unqualified team members, people got tired of having to compensate for the unqualified team members, driving them out. That in turn resulted in increasing amounts of unqualified people in the queues, causing ever increasing failure rates, which in turn drove out the unqualified players as well (because they could no longer just fumble around and still get rewarded).

    Frankly, I just run with 10k folks most of the time because that's a sufficient guarantee of competence for most things, 30k for the more difficult things (like fez), and 50k only if I want to see just how terrible I am compared to the others. :P

    Even PublicEliteSTF is sufficient for things like CCA.
  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    darkjeff wrote: »
    I'm assuming you're talking about the presence of the DPS channels not this drama.

    In which case, I'd point out the reason many of us join these channels (and channels like PublicEliteSTFs) in the first place is because there's way too many people who don't meet reasonable standards, by which I mean "pull your own weight in your team".

    Frankly, that's why public queues died. When it became more difficult to compensate for unqualified team members, people got tired of having to compensate for the unqualified team members, driving them out. That in turn resulted in increasing amounts of unqualified people in the queues, causing ever increasing failure rates, which in turn drove out the unqualified players as well (because they could no longer just fumble around and still get rewarded).

    Of course. I don't mind the existance of a DPS League as a concept, it's more or less just another fleet for people to join who enjoy that sort of gameplay. But when it bleeds out and affects aspects of the game for all players, then it's going a bit too far.

    So many people come to the forums and see all these DPS League builds and damage outputs and make a carbon-copy of the layout because they want the "best." They don't learn how to play the game properly, they just assume that because someone hit 50k with it then they will too. And there's no denying Cryptic increased NPC health to compensate for the min-maxers completing content too easily.

    It's not all on the League, Cryptic has had a poor sense of game balance for some time now, but when the League shows up everywhere I think it needs to be reigned in. Treat it like a private fleet rather than a global entity, and keep the drama off the public forums.

    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • tbffotbffo Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    What you guys did was dirty.
    And what is this?
    http://i.imgur.com/o3qHASv.png
  • gr4v1t4rgr4v1t4r Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Lets see, official statement...

    John says its false,
    Mal says its false,
    Jena says its false,
    Porch says its false,

    Myeah, sounds really official ryan...

    I have seen John ban numbers (see what I did there?) of people for a variety of reasons, which generally boiled down to the banned person acting like a giant douche. Being banned for a recluse in group sounds like complete bull****. I remember running with him, and captainabbadon in a recluse when I still played, don't recall him ******** about it, like ever.

    Perhaps you are mistaking objecting to using 4 players to buffing a single persons score, for objecting to a genuine team effort where each persons helps each other?

    Anyway, back to GW2 for me.

    I wish you guys good luck undoing the damage ryan and felisean have done.
    Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too
    Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
    askray wrote: »
    Expressing my opinion isn't trolling but nice try. Besides, if I was you wouldn't know it ;P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    gr4v1t4r wrote: »
    Lets see, official statement...

    John says its false,
    Mal says its false,
    Jena says its false,
    Porch says its false,

    Myeah, sounds really official ryan...

    I have seen John ban numbers (see what I did there?) of people for a variety of reasons, which generally boiled down to the banned person acting like a giant douche. Being banned for a recluse in group sounds like complete bull****. I remember running with him, and captainabbadon in a recluse when I still played, don't recall him ******** about it, like ever.

    Perhaps you are mistaking objecting to using 4 players to buffing a single persons score, for objecting to a genuine team effort where each persons helps each other?

    Anyway, back to GW2 for me.

    I wish you guys good luck undoing the damage ryan and felisean have done.
    i dunno... i was threatened with a ban for merely questioning the validity of a kase parse posted into the channel. the ban wasnt based on my behaviour so much as based on who i dared to question (one of the four that 'says its false').
    based upon that experience, yes i can imagine somebody being banned for using a recluse.
  • krisrobertskrisroberts Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ryan & his Bum Chums should be completely ashamed of themselves! You clearly have no respect for anyone or anything. In fact you have really just shot yourself in the foot.

    Nobody will ever take anything you ever say now with any credibility.

    I will also be doing my part to make sure nobody EVER takes you or your Bum boys seriously.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    This thread needs a Ferengi selling 31 flavours of popcorn, to the spectators.
    But wouldn't Ferengi flavor them with various kidns of bugs and snails? :P

    Er... actually... I have no idea whether that might taste good.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • lorne12lorne12 Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    *Eating popcorn and enjoying the entertainment*
    You read an lorne12™ post

    bZVIEMl.jpg
  • sjw83sjw83 Member Posts: 20 Media Corps
    edited June 2015
    ezriryan wrote: »
    Greetings,

    Today the DPS Channels faced some crossroads.
    The situation did build up over quite some time but let me put it into a nutshell for you:

    We have a group of Admins that is relentlessly attacking Teamplay and certain builds as cheating. Primarily going after recluse supporters.

    Neglecting the fact that in a Teamgame other players will make a difference for you - flying with people you know will usually be more fun than flying with a random group. Also everyone is getting more used to the runs and the overall performance of the team will increase.
    If you think you shame yourself by bringing a team to the table then you might want try a solo mission instead.
    This is about enabling people to play to their full potential, enjoying the game with friends - not getting held back by a line that only exists for a few.

    We think this is a good development. It is the logical next step after optimizing your build and playstyle to keep on improving and achieving what is not possible if everyone is only building around themselves. The Team should be greater than the sum of its parts.
    Playing a support class might not be glorious on the damage charts, but it can be a lot fun as well.

    Under no circumstance are builds to be excluded from the official list just because someone doesn't like them.
    If something is truly too strong, as they claim, everyone will use it and everyone will have an easier time finishing the mission- so everyone is winning.

    Obviously there are some limitation to this - cheating should never be encouraged. But as long as you are within the bounds of the game and find something that works better than something else, you should go for it and tell others about it.
    Help everyone to improve. That was the major goal of the channels, which is now being defeated by some of the Admins, as they don't want to develop to the next step: Teamplay and Team-setups.

    As they won't stop attacking the teamplay aspect, or for the matter- anything else they don't like:
    In the interest of every player that wants to become better at the game, increase his knowledge and even try out different stuff, we see no other alternative than to recreate the Channels in the light of becoming better at the game and becoming a better gamer - with teamplay.
    Getting better is not a journey for one person, but creating friendships and playing together is a major aspect of that. If you deny the impact a team has in a teamgame, you are passing on a lot of your potential because you decided you don't like it.
    But that can never be a general rule - banning recluses, Healers, Tanks and Scimitars is not the answer.
    If someone actually puts in all the time and effort to run with a dedicated group his results will be his results. And usually he will have quite some fun doing it.

    The new channel structure will be:
    DPS-Bronze (former 10k)
    DPS-Silver (former 30k)
    DPS-Gold (former 50k)
    DPS-Diamond (former 75k)

    This change will also allow for easier adaptation of the channels in the future.
    Channel invites should be done, so nothing really changes, simply accept the new invites.
    Should someone miss his invite contact @Felisean or @Ezri_Carter
    If you were in 50k, you should already have recieved the appropriate channel-invites

    RyanSTO, Felisean
    and
    The Wizards of STO


    edit: The CLR and the shown DPS League are part of these newly founded channels

    Hey,

    This is the first time I have ever posted on one of these forums so you're all have to bare with me lol.

    Anyone with half a brain can see this for what it really is. It is an hostile taker over. You nerds should be ashamed of yourselves. I am somewhat surprised by STO Ryan part in all of this, the others, less so. These people are among the 'elitist' as***** I've had the unfortunate experience of spending time with. These people give the DPS channels a bad name. They look down at others with a god like complex (with ego's to match). These people have no morals, values while they go around ''cheating'' (ie uploading parse from the test sever) by trying to make themselves really good. Well I am sorry that says a lot about a person's character. Where is your moral compass? That was a really sh*ty thing to do to anyone! You think we'd trust a group of people like that to be honest?

    I for one will not be joining this ''illegitimate' dps channel. I will go back the those who have integrity , who do not lie, look down upon people and who are fair. The DPS-10,000 DPS-30,000 DPS 50,000 DPS-75,000 As they are the original and fair group, the others, you can go f*** yourselves :)

    Regards

    Sarah
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Use plasma explosion proc consoles with kemocite ? None bats an eye.
    Use support recluses ? Everybody lose their minds.

    Ok, now that I am done with my pvp rant ...

    What's going on here? What's wrong with recluses now?

    Ya, I know they are powerful debuffers hands down about that but, pretty since I've started playing , they've always been used by - I guess - everyone to boost their DPS and the overall team's DPS and I don't know how many past ISE and present ISA Prime personal records have been achieved thanks to recluses.
    Actually I know a couple of them because 2 friends of mine were in those runs with their recluses.
    However, why hasn't this Recluse ban/prohibition/restriction/whatever been issued as soon as this ship was released? I guess that its debuffing potential was already clear even back then ... and they probably exist in this game before I even started playing !
    This way, many pvers could have saved 80 millions EC or more, which is good money ya know ... and everyone and their mother knows that, right now, in PvP, the Samsar is the ultimate healer.
    tbffo wrote: »
    Its just an extreme form of teamwork nothing more? Do you really think that putting a "recluse nanny" or 2 in a team is enough? Do you really think that you need just 2 nannies and BOOM your dps is 100k+? It isnt! Behind these recluse runs, there are hours of theory crafting, training and of course trying to get the best result of many runs in a row.
    Very much this ... and I'll add that you need also a great DPSer like Agresiel to get the best out of them.
    On February 2014 he hit 82k long before DR's powercreep, which was an OMG parse back then, perfect GDF, perfect positioning, perfect run ... and that record hasn't been beaten for 7 freackin' months ! Which is like centuries in this MMO, where OP new stuff comes out every now and then.
    P58WJe7.jpg


  • tbffotbffo Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    sjw83 wrote: »
    Where is your moral compass?
    You are writing about moral. Now look at this: http://i.imgur.com/o3qHASv.png
    Now say that this is in your moral compass...

    Oh, and btw:
    The 82k record pre-DR, not beaten for 7 months, from Mal [email protected] was a run with a "cheater recluse nanny". Very authentic...
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    What's going on here? What's wrong with recluses now?

    This drama is apparently about a specific situation - using 4 nanny Recluses in a team for the sole purpose of boosting the 5th's parse.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited June 2015
    tbffo wrote: »
    You are writing about moral. Now look at this: http://i.imgur.com/o3qHASv.png
    Now say that this is in your moral compass...

    Oh, and btw:
    The 82k record pre-DR, not beaten for 7 months, from Mal [email protected] was a run with a "cheater recluse nanny". Very authentic...

    Well.. Ryan & Felisean have told so many lies already.. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this to make us look bad...
  • rygelx16rygelx16 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    They should really be renamed "the Infected Epeen" channels.
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ugh, wish people would get along.


    Nomnomnom popcorns good tho.
    *passes on bowl*
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ohh, allmost missed this thread.
    darkjeff wrote: »
    So this appears to be drama among the top record holders. Do you guys really want to publicly fight over your records? It's just embarrassing for those of us regular members of the channels. If you're going to publicly argue about records like this, you're just lending credence to the anti-DPS naysayers who say we're all in it for the epeen. :(
    But that is exactly what is all about. If it wasnt for the epeen, no leaderboards would exist. If it was a place to get ppl for team then it wouldve been a channel like the EliteSTF or Hive were. Invite based but no epeen mesurement.
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    Of course. I don't mind the existance of a DPS League as a concept, it's more or less just another fleet for people to join who enjoy that sort of gameplay. But when it bleeds out and affects aspects of the game for all players, then it's going a bit too far.

    So many people come to the forums and see all these DPS League builds and damage outputs and make a carbon-copy of the layout because they want the "best." They don't learn how to play the game properly, they just assume that because someone hit 50k with it then they will too. And there's no denying Cryptic increased NPC health to compensate for the min-maxers completing content too easily.

    It's not all on the League, Cryptic has had a poor sense of game balance for some time now, but when the League shows up everywhere I think it needs to be reigned in. Treat it like a private fleet rather than a global entity, and keep the drama off the public forums.

    So much this. They just train DPS chasing monkeys in there who, alot fo them, only done ISA trilion of times. And even more worse they think highly of themselves nd better then others becouse of some number on a fake leaderboard.
    And Cryptic balacing adv and elite content after bfaw speed runs screwed the game big time, making lots of viable (and fun I may add) builds useless.
    i dunno... i was threatened with a ban for merely questioning the validity of a kase parse posted into the channel. the ban wasnt based on my behaviour so much as based on who i dared to question (one of the four that 'says its false').
    based upon that experience, yes i can imagine somebody being banned for using a recluse.

    Dunno if this is your case but it seems they even thought was a good idea to put as one of the admins the person who hammered the last nail in the EliteSTF coffin. Not that the other two previous ESTF admins were doing a better job with channel silence for an hour for 1-2 misbehaving idiots. But still those were ppl wich you could talk to and even have a pleasant conversation. But the person that was left incharge was really bad. Couldnt even reason with him/her becouse was like "You dare challange an admin" and then went bananas... Go figure:confused:
  • thenoname711thenoname711 Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    So now what? We now have two different dps groups, one being DPS-Rare-metals and the other being DPS-Numbers.

    Rare metals apparently have @omegashoker on their side who created CLR and @Felisean, @Ezri_carter and @holofrog being the admins and @dpsleague being the channels' owner. They also seem to promote all sorts of teamplay including recluse nannies as legitimate tactic.

    Numbers seem to hold the old channels with @agresiel being the owner and @sarcasmdetector, @ukcaptain420, @porchsong and @john98837 as admins. Now what I don't understand is what Numbers deem inappropriate. Recluses? Kemocite? Plasma explosions proc? And how Numbers want to measure the performance of the players now? With old combatlog parser with STO plugin?

    I also don't understand why the thing with tribble, Numbers' channel-wide wipe? It doesn't seem to me to be exactly fair to force everyone out from old channels to promote your own.
    Why the thing with n4zi screenshot? Who owns the dps.shivtr.com domain? Numbers or Rare-metals?

    And the most important thing, which group should I join? Both seem to have acted a bit dirty. Shouldn't you just both state your channel rules and way to measure our performance and let the players decide?
    Gameserver not found.
  • ukcaptain420ukcaptain420 Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    tbffo wrote: »
    You are writing about moral. Now look at this: http://i.imgur.com/o3qHASv.png
    Now say that this is in your moral compass...

    Oh, and btw:
    The 82k record pre-DR, not beaten for 7 months, from Mal [email protected] was a run with a "cheater recluse nanny". Very authentic...

    Also, that part of the site is fed directly from the parser, so take from that as you will.
    SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - [email protected]
    I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
  • tbffotbffo Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    Well.. Ryan & Felisean have told so many lies already.. I wouldn't be surprised if they did this to make us look bad...
    I have taken the screenshot by myself and found it by myself without any influence.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ugh, wish people would get along.

    Nomnomnom popcorns good tho.
    *passes on bowl*

    Why? Karma is a wonderful thing. *also munches*
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    rygelx16 wrote: »
    They should really be renamed "the Infected Epeen" channels.

    See this right here is all this garbage caused. I use these channels to better my builds, find good teams, etc. Thats it. I honestly cant believe that one silly nx video has caused all this. All the infighting about this is making these channels look like a bunch of <im sorry, this comment is being censored as it should not be read by anybody, ever>. Is it cool you can debuff and get more dps with apb spamming weavers? Sure, but its just a circus act, its not really proving the skill of the individual the recluses are supporting to a point.

    Either way, this point of contention between like maybe ten of the thousand/hundreds in these channels causing all this is rediculous, and ryan making such an announcement the way he did to basically hijack the community has officially defeated any integrity he may have had. Very low, and says alot about his lack of character and sportsmanship.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ugh, wish people would get along.


    Nomnomnom popcorns good tho.
    *passes on bowl*
    *sniffs* Hmmm snail.... surprisingly good. :)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • fighter1789fighter1789 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited June 2015
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Wait, you mean there is a drama going on between min-maxxer elitists ? I'm shocked, probably a first in all the videogames communities.
    To be honest, that's the issue with min-maxxing, people never know where to stop. The Recluse spam is borderline exploiting. STO is probably the only game I know of where you can stack that much debuff on a target. And no, it's not really teamplay, it's barely having the proper build, and using your skill on a recluse. I mean, most of it comes from the pets, that's not like skill is involved there. Sure, the DPSer is probably skilled, but is he more with nanny than without ? I don't think so.

    Anyway, everyone's entitled to their opinions. But in the end, it's a game.
    Why? Karma is a wonderful thing. *also munches*
    Can I have some popcorn to ?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    agresiel2 wrote: »
    no one got banned
    quite the opposite all that was proposed was to dis allow people to be invited into 10k 30k 50k by means of which they couldnt replicate consistently

    the idea was agreed by the admin team to maintain the integrity of the invites, and at no point would runs with recluses be banned they simply would be placed with all other such runs in a team play section of the leauge

    This post is the most important one.

    If you can get 50K on your own*, then you're an oustanding player that deserves that invite. If you need a set of Nannies to get you there, and you can't replicate it in another "pug" scenarios (pugs being a random set of people from the appropriate channel), then you're not really that 50K player you're advertised as.

    *When I say "on your own", I don't consider calling out and coordinating TacFleet usage as a 'premade' environment. What I mean by a 'premade' is that you have a group of players who are specifically gear, spec'd and piloting to make sure that you (and maybe 1 other) are getting the maximum amount of measured DPS by sacrificing their own.
  • rygelx16rygelx16 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    See this right here is all this garbage caused. I use these channels to better my builds, find good teams, etc. Thats it.

    But you don't need private channels to do that. You can discuss builds and such right here on the STO forums (or reddit) openly for all to see and help everyone. These private channels just create segregation and that just creates these types of problems.
  • spencerb96spencerb96 Member Posts: 233 Media Corps
    edited June 2015
    The other day we had a chat Ryan, you and others told me you felt that you were being harassed. I told you that if I were in a situation where I felt harassed, I would leave to get away from the harassment. However, I did not and do not support kicking everyone out of the channels.

    You know as well as I that the changes were not banning recluses. The changes would simply put our extreme high end DPS runs on a separate table as they can’t be compared to a normal run. There would be checks to see if a run qualified to be moved from the main table to the “specialized run” table.

    Now, for those that are not aware of why this runs can’t be compared to a normal run. Lets look at Ryan’s 171k FPER Run. 3/2 Split with Ryan + 2 Recluses on one side, 2 DPS on the other side. On Ryan’s side, after the transformer went down, and they went towards the center towards the Grav Welled Spheres, the 2 Recluses set their pets to defend Ryan. Once the Pets were right around Ryan, they activated the Recluse console, which stacked from two players can be upwards of a 200% Cat 2 Dmg Buff. Once those consoles were active, Ryan fired his Nadion Bomb into the Spheres. You simply can’t compare that run to a normal channel run.

    I find what was done today extremely wrong. If you’d left and simply made your own channel/ league, I wouldn’t have cared. But kicking 7,500 players from the channels as soon as the server goes down was wrong. I can’t support these actions.
    Fleet Leader @ The Breakfast Club

    DPS 10k, 75k, Elites, Prime / G-200, G-800 Admin

    Youtube - CasualSAB, formerly "SOB's Casual Corner"
  • daunknownadmindaunknownadmin Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    tbffo wrote: »
    You are writing about moral. Now look at this: http://i.imgur.com/o3qHASv.png
    Now say that this is in your moral compass...
    Also, that part of the site is fed directly from the parser, so take from that as you will.

    Normally I would accept that answer, however if that was truly the case then why does the table header have the disparaging name while the one under the More Current Tac DPS Records has another name? If those records are automatically added from parses, and if someone uploaded an "edited" parse, it should have affected both names and not just the one in the header? It seems more likely that the one in the header was edited manually and not populated by an uploaded edited parse.
  • azurealli4nceazurealli4nce Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    ezriryan wrote: »
    <snip>

    I paid a hell of a lot of $ & ec to earn gear to get into DPS-10000. For an outvoted minority like you to dishonor my efforts by kicking me from a channel whose entry I earned, and strain the majority of DPS admins is condemnable.

    Obviously, I left DPS-Bronze as soon as I read the posts today. Your abuse of the DPS admin's trust and lack of respect for democracy is disgusting. I will not be associated with anyone who commits acts of cyberterrorism such as what you did today.
    DPS-Bronze, DPS-Silver, DPS-Gold, etc. are FAKE! They were created by an outvoted minority who destroyed the original DPS channels!

    Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
This discussion has been closed.