Well, yeah. Also, it would prevent people from putting together sub-optimal builds.
I'm not saying it's the greatest idea ever and I already know there will be those who don't like it. There are still holes, like Specializations and Traits that potentially tip the playing field toward unbalance. And, nothing really stopping Cryptic from creating unbalanced packs except Cryptic.
It's just a thought.
That's what I'm afraid of. Cryptic is Cryptic, and they - or PWE - might get greedy and try to cash in by selling packs that slowly get more OP than the last, until they've ruined the whole idea. Kind of like they did with ships.
I don't mean to discourage the conversations in this thread, but I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
The PvP community is not overly large. Whatever PvP items Cryptic puts in the Z-store has to be justified (remember, this is the reason the KDF is not getting a T6 science ship). Are there enough PvP'ers to buy your PvP-centric items?
You might want to consider increasing the size of the PvP community in addition to brainstorming ways to give Cryptic your money. I realize this becomes a "chicken and the egg" sort of situation, but if there were more PvP'ers, your ideas may travel farther.
I don't mean to discourage the conversations in this thread, but I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
The PvP community is not overly large. Whatever PvP items Cryptic puts in the Z-store has to be justified (remember, this is the reason the KDF is not getting a T6 science ship). Are there enough PvP'ers to buy your PvP-centric items?
You might want to consider increasing the size of the PvP community in addition to brainstorming ways to give Cryptic your money. I realize this becomes a "chicken and the egg" sort of situation, but if there were more PvP'ers, your ideas may travel farther.
the field has been salted by cryptic, the pvp community cannot grow on its own without an act of god (actual development and paid work hours contributed to pvp) from the devs.
I don't mean to discourage the conversations in this thread, but I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
The PvP community is not overly large. Whatever PvP items Cryptic puts in the Z-store has to be justified (remember, this is the reason the KDF is not getting a T6 science ship). Are there enough PvP'ers to buy your PvP-centric items?
You might want to consider increasing the size of the PvP community in addition to brainstorming ways to give Cryptic your money. I realize this becomes a "chicken and the egg" sort of situation, but if there were more PvP'ers, your ideas may travel farther.
It's where it gets pretty complex.
Need to drive/attract new business.
Need to retain business.
Need to return business (players that left previously).
But before touching any of that, wouldn't one need to...
Check the market atmosphere to see if it would be a profitable venture?
Ask is there enough of a demand out there to look at it?
What competition is there?
What does this game offer they don't?
What could this game offer they don't?
In This Thread:
"Let's find a way to get developers money".
Crazy fkn idea: how about they make a decent game with decent content on decent servers with decent balance?
Rockstar makes decent(read:great game aka GTA V)-they vent on to sell 58 million copies, without selling gimmicks or power creep items.
CDPR makes what's arguably best and biggest and most beautiful RPG of all time. an RPG with no grinding involved, an RPG where player choice matters, praised by players and critics.
What do they do?
They announce FREE DLC missions.
So, my suggestion is that Cryptic needs to make a decent game first.
No more power creep F2P / P2W games without content for me. lazy, uninspired and waste of a good franchise licence.
The premise of this thread has been that if there is a financial incentive to concentrate on PvP, then PvP will get attention.
It would have been nice if PvP had gotten more attention up till now. The reality is, that it hasn't appeared to have gotten much Dev attention compared to other parts of the game. The attention it has gotten has generally involved the Devs modifying some power to try to make it less unbalanced, which has unfortunately given rise to the notion that PvP'ers are all about nerfing the game. (Not true. More about the Devs altering a power to make it more WAI in their own eyes.)
Some people think PvP is a lost cause.
Some people are not at peace with the idea of leaving PvP as it is, or taking it out of the game. They want to see it fixed.
If Cryptic is not already on board with the idea that they need PvP to complete the big picture, the only way to change that is to change the minds of whoever's in charge and convince them that PvP is too lucrative to abandon.
That's the idea, anyway.
Telling Cryptic to "make a decent game" isn't constructive. Suggesting specific reasonable changes, whether or not Cryptic actually makes them, is at least an attempt to be constructive.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Telling Cryptic to "make a decent game" isn't constructive. Suggesting specific reasonable changes, whether or not Cryptic actually makes them, is at least an attempt to be constructive.
You see, you are completely wrong.
- I don't need to be constructive. I am a customer. When the product is good, I as a customer don't need to get out of my way to find a way to make other people spend money on it to convince developers to put more dev time in it.
- In normal world, developers make good game and people spend money on it. Players don't spend one second to think for developers how to make this and that.
- Power Creep microtransactions instead of even paid story expansions and content DLCs with grinding instead of gameplay are signs of very bad product.
- So to conclude: If developers want people to come back at all(and maybe spend money later) they need to make a good product. But I'm not certain they can or will.
As it is now, PVP in this game is dead. Even forums are dead.
I come by every now and then to see 10 new posts from all the same last survivors in like 7 days.
I think we're missing a step here, people don't play PvP for several reasons:
#1. Veterans mixed with newbs (new players are 'encouraged' to leave when stomped in seconds by vets)
#2. X is OP, plz nerf (Translation: abilities need balancing)
#3. The missions are bland/repetitive (fly here, kill X players, defend this location...)
#4. The rewards are not worth the time/effort investment. (PvP is inherantly more difficult than PvE, yet rewards are significantly less...)
I'm not terribly opposed to Cryptic making money in the PvP area, I'm just concerned that doing so will make it impossible for non-paying players to win against paying players...
Before we talk about how Cryptic can get more money from players, perhaps we should discuss how to make playing PvP worthwhile for players without requiring significant investment of manhours on Cryptic's part?
Perhaps implementing a Dilithium time based reward system like foundry missions have, paired with an 'inactivity check' like the AFK penalties in STFs, would make playing a PvP mission rewarding, but only if players actually did something? lol
Adding something like 'PvP Credits' which can be earned through matches and used to purchase items like PvP consumables, or special uniform items, titles, and such...
This could be monetized by selling PvP bundles in the C-Store which could contain some PvP credits, or consumables, or maybe a slim chance of one of the special items I mentioned above...
Some time ago way back when, Cryptic used to sell 'ship skins' perhaps this could be re-examined for PvP? Maybe offer up a bad-TRIBBLE ship skin* for some Zen, but only if a player has X PvP score** or higher?
*Something that would be different than normal ship appearances, like a chrome/black paint job for an Andromeda... or something to that extent. lol
**PvP score would be some kind of tally as to how many victories/losses a player has or some simmilar function.
I think we're missing a step here, people don't play PvP for several reasons:
#1. Veterans mixed with newbs (new players are 'encouraged' to leave when stomped in seconds by vets)
#2. X is OP, plz nerf (Translation: abilities need balancing) #3. The missions are bland/repetitive (fly here, kill X players, defend this location...)
#4. The rewards are not worth the time/effort investment. (PvP is inherantly more difficult than PvE, yet rewards are significantly less...)
I'm not terribly opposed to Cryptic making money in the PvP area, I'm just concerned that doing so will make it impossible for non-paying players to win against paying players...
Before we talk about how Cryptic can get more money from players, perhaps we should discuss how to make playing PvP worthwhile for players without requiring significant investment of manhours on Cryptic's part?
Perhaps implementing a Dilithium time based reward system like foundry missions have, paired with an 'inactivity check' like the AFK penalties in STFs, would make playing a PvP mission rewarding, but only if players actually did something? lol
Adding something like 'PvP Credits' which can be earned through matches and used to purchase items like PvP consumables, or special uniform items, titles, and such...
This could be monetized by selling PvP bundles in the C-Store which could contain some PvP credits, or consumables, or maybe a slim chance of one of the special items I mentioned above...
Some time ago way back when, Cryptic used to sell 'ship skins' perhaps this could be re-examined for PvP? Maybe offer up a bad-TRIBBLE ship skin* for some Zen, but only if a player has X PvP score** or higher?
*Something that would be different than normal ship appearances, like a chrome/black paint job for an Andromeda... or something to that extent. lol
**PvP score would be some kind of tally as to how many victories/losses a player has or some simmilar function.
wrong. PvP is not repetitive. The "kill X player" is the fun part, which makes you able to proceed on your mission objective, let that be kill count, conquering or defending.
PvP is already behind a huge paywall, they can't increase that paywall by making it P2W, and they're perfectly aware of that.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
The premise of this thread has been that if there is a financial incentive to concentrate on PvP, then PvP will get attention.
It would have been nice if PvP had gotten more attention up till now. The reality is, that it hasn't appeared to have gotten much Dev attention compared to other parts of the game. The attention it has gotten has generally involved the Devs modifying some power to try to make it less unbalanced, which has unfortunately given rise to the notion that PvP'ers are all about nerfing the game. (Not true. More about the Devs altering a power to make it more WAI in their own eyes.)
Some people think PvP is a lost cause.
Some people are not at peace with the idea of leaving PvP as it is, or taking it out of the game. They want to see it fixed.
If Cryptic is not already on board with the idea that they need PvP to complete the big picture, the only way to change that is to change the minds of whoever's in charge and convince them that PvP is too lucrative to abandon.
That's the idea, anyway.
Telling Cryptic to "make a decent game" isn't constructive. Suggesting specific reasonable changes, whether or not Cryptic actually makes them, is at least an attempt to be constructive.
I don't know if you have ever played guild wars 2 but they already answered this problem where they make just as money off pvp as they do various services and costumes.
The first way they did in translation to STO is when you enter your pvp lobby you have a specific PvP setup that loads so you can just leave it and go back to your normal pve setup after you leave. Then the stats of everyone are based on a selection so no pay to win excuses and then different setups are free and then some you would pay dilithium for which would work the same and profitable still with STO. The next aspect is they have a system like no other where when you are killed per say in traditional mmorpgs you have a chance to come back. Now with this functionality if STO had one the way you finally kill a player they have what they call finishers that if you completely finish off your target it has an animation you have selected to play once you've beaten someone. They pump these "finishers" out like wild fire and they sell big time. To give an example one thing people may like would be one that has an armitage firing a spread of torpedoes and then their ship exploding or something like that.
Then on top of that they have tournaments which are put up where their are prizes and such and that is where they get their big twitch views so you can watch a PvP tournament live. IN doing so another way to monetize it is before a blog is put out in one of these kinds of tournaments have a stage where people are using various lockbox items/ships/etc where you are visually advertising and promoting the lockboxes in a way never done before where you would get to see them in action before ever going after one to buy.
As well they can always come up with something other than this its just an attempt by me to show(not trying to flame anyone) that they can make money off of it. As well where its not a grind but something fun to do that will "fill their coffers".
wrong. PvP is not repetitive. The "kill X player" is the fun part, which makes you able to proceed on your mission objective, let that be kill count, conquering or defending.
PvP is already behind a huge paywall, they can't increase that paywall by making it P2W, and they're perfectly aware of that.
It's debatable, you seem to have different opinions of PvP than I, which is ok, but it doesn't make me any more wrong than it makes you.
Personally I don't like the 'Kill X players' as being a primary objective, I'd prefer misisons to have an objective outside of this. There are times where I just want a simple 'Kill X player' mission, but some variety would be a welcome change.
And yes, I do agree making PvP more P2W than it is now is a terrible idea and would just manage to drive more people away from PvP.
I'm sure there are some ways that Cryptic can make $$ from PvPers without making PvP pay-2-win, we (players and devs) just have to be creative and careful on what to do with it.
No. The idea of having preset loadouts for PvP would make like everyone go away, including myself. You get to build your own ship, tweak around what you have and keep looking for ways to improve your ship: let that be the usual dogfight escort or something unconventional.
With presets... meh. You don't even know how it's set up, the doffs, keybinds, nor have knowledge & expertise needed to fly the ship at its best.
So yeah, PvP loadouts that are made by Cryptic is a baaaad idea.
It's debatable, you seem to have different opinions of PvP than I, which is ok, but it doesn't make me any more wrong than it makes you.
Personally I don't like the 'Kill X players' as being a primary objective, I'd prefer misisons to have an objective outside of this. There are times where I just want a simple 'Kill X player' mission, but some variety woule be a welcome change.
And yes, I do agree making PvP more P2W than it is now is a terrible idea and would just manage to drive more people away from PvP.
I'm sure there are some ways that Cryptic can make $$ from PvPers without making PvP pay-2-win, we (players and devs) just have to be creative and careful on what to do with it.
But it is, unfortunately... more or less. Well it depends. For how STO is set up, there's no other way than ship fighting for doing PvP. The other Trek way would be diplomacy and constant talking for treaties, but would you really spend your time doing that? I'd rather pick up the guns and let them speak for me :P
Plus we're speaking of players, it'd just end up the way that nobody speaks and fighting comes in.
There's nothing wrong in saying that continuous combat gets tedious after a while: it sure was for me when I did premade vs premade. Those were long, you really didn't have any energy left to keep on playing after lol.
I agree on adding new game modes, but as it stands space combat is a permanent variable in STO, which is of no surprise. I'd consider the opposite to be anomalous.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Different people like different things. You'd have a hard time paying me enough to play GTA. And I had to Google CDPR...and the first result was California Department of Pesticide Regulation. And well, that's not a RPG...it's an ARPG. I don't play those either.
And well, comparing those two games to the ongoing development of a MMO...well...duh, it's not going to be similar.
- I don't need to be constructive. I am a customer. When the product is good, I as a customer don't need to get out of my way to find a way to make other people spend money on it to convince developers to put more dev time in it.
- In normal world, developers make good game and people spend money on it. Players don't spend one second to think for developers how to make this and that.
- Power Creep microtransactions instead of even paid story expansions and content DLCs with grinding instead of gameplay are signs of very bad product.
- So to conclude: If developers want people to come back at all(and maybe spend money later) they need to make a good product. But I'm not certain they can or will.
As it is now, PVP in this game is dead. Even forums are dead.
I come by every now and then to see 10 new posts from all the same last survivors in like 7 days.
But YOU are not the player this thread is attempting to engage. As a customer, you're perfectly willing to shun the product if they don't give you what you want... and that's fine.
The people who are suggesting monetary incentives for Cryptic to develop PVP don't want to shun the product. They're desperate for a reason to keep wanting to play it, specifically the PvP aspect.
I'm only here because I think the PvP community is important, and because, well, I'm supposed to mod these forums. I don't actually play PvP, so take anything I say on that topic with a grain of salt. It's just an opinion, no better than anybody else's.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Then on top of that they have tournaments which are put up where their are prizes and such and that is where they get their big twitch views so you can watch a PvP tournament live. IN doing so another way to monetize it is before a blog is put out in one of these kinds of tournaments have a stage where people are using various lockbox items/ships/etc where you are visually advertising and promoting the lockboxes in a way never done before where you would get to see them in action before ever going after one to buy.
I think Cryptic is missing a major cash cow and lots of repeat logins by not creating some kind of tournament system, or putting things into PvP that would let the community run its' own tournaments. With no real leaderboard and no tiered competition, the whole thing is just another way to kill time (and the opposition).
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I think Cryptic is missing a major cash cow and lots of repeat logins by not creating some kind of tournament system, or putting things into PvP that would let the community run its' own tournaments. With no real leaderboard and no tiered competition, the whole thing is just another way to kill time (and the opposition).
100% yes.
But, after all, we were told that leaderboards and tournament queues were "in testing to be released soon" in July of 2010. A solid 5 years ago.
Surely, if it was so close to being complete, they can dust it off and finally put them in?
I think Cryptic is missing a major cash cow and lots of repeat logins by not creating some kind of tournament system, or putting things into PvP that would let the community run its' own tournaments. With no real leaderboard and no tiered competition, the whole thing is just another way to kill time (and the opposition).
I keep wondering if they'll take a look at some of what's going on in Swordsman Online (a PWE game)...with what they have with their monthly PvP leaderboard things and even the different forms of PvP Arenas they have.
#1. Veterans mixed with newbs (new players are 'encouraged' to leave when stomped in seconds by vets)
This ^
PvP is zero enjoyment for this reason alone. I'll buy ships for PvE all day long (personally spent $250 in the last 2 months), but anything PvP oriented won't get a dime from me pretty much ever as long as this is the way its going to be.
It's a bad enough experience that even if they change it now, I doubt I'd bother trying. It's not a "hmmm, maybe I should give it another shot." thing. It's more of a tried once and done, done, done.
No. The idea of having preset loadouts for PvP would make like everyone go away, including myself. You get to build your own ship, tweak around what you have and keep looking for ways to improve your ship: let that be the usual dogfight escort or something unconventional.
With presets... meh. You don't even know how it's set up, the doffs, keybinds, nor have knowledge & expertise needed to fly the ship at its best.
So yeah, PvP loadouts that are made by Cryptic is a baaaad idea.
Er...but that's kind of the problem over in PvE, no?
Folks in the same boat...one does less than 10k and the other does over 75k.
It's a 75k build, but the 10k player's not doing 75k...why?
Cause that player didn't improve...they improved their ship.
Templates...would be a test of improving the player rather than what particular set of gimmicks they hope to carry that their opponent might not have the counters for...
* * * * *
Besides, given they can do different things with Public and Private...would there be any reason they couldn't do Public Template and Private Custom?
Well the sick part is all the base improvements starts with disabling some features that just exist in the game.
Consoles, consoles and other stupid items..
But really its too far gone, star-ship traits, consoles and ships that is so far of the norm.
When sto was in pure in the beginning there was the turn rate battles between escorts, cruisers and science ships had valid builds and they where all about equal, sure dps was important but you could out heal escorts, snb was the eternal bad game design that made it so you had to use it to play competitive.
Then the game got dumb loads of swarms of bad minion fighters, clouds that drained shields and shields that where bugged, sure they got fixed but then they added elite shields that where just as bad imo. Teleportation console made carriers alright, but in all honesty this console made the game easier.
Maybe it would be more fun to start with fixing shuttle pvp sense that doesn't matter for other parts of the game.
Different people like different things. You'd have a hard time paying me enough to play GTA. And I had to Google CDPR...and the first result was California Department of Pesticide Regulation. And well, that's not a RPG...it's an ARPG. I don't play those either.
And well, comparing those two games to the ongoing development of a MMO...well...duh, it's not going to be similar.
1) The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D (3DS)
2) Grand Theft Auto V (PS4)
3) Battlefield: Hardline (PS4)
4) The Order 1866 (PS4)
5) Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (PS4)
6) Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (3DS)
7) Bloodborne (PS4)
8) Dying Light (PS4)
9) Monster Hunter 4G (3DS)
10) Battlefield: Hardline (XOne)
So STO should be more like Zelda, Pokemon, and Monster Hunter...yeah?
They should can the PC version and do a 3DS game.
Well, The Witcher 3 was released 10 days ago so it can't possibly be in top ten of the year so far.
But it's the best game from that list by far.
Ongoing development of MMO?
STO is 5 years online? developed how much more before that?
TW3 was made in 3-4. But i'm not comparing.
I'm directly saying that instead of paying $50 for a ship that will be outpowered next month, for the same money I can play one of the best games ever made. For $100 i can play 2. GTAV and TW3 have at the least 300hrs of pure fun gameplay.
You can add Bloodborne to that as well for a price of one 3part ship set in STO.
defending laziness and greed of STO devs is so counterproductive for your own cause.
They have managed to ruin Star Trek as a franchise for many people and annihilate faith that sometime we might get a good Star Trek game.
Well, The Witcher 3 was released 10 days ago so it can't possibly be in top ten of the year so far.
But it's the best game from that list by far.
Ongoing development of MMO?
STO is 5 years online? developed how much more before that?
TW3 was made in 3-4. But i'm not comparing.
I'm directly saying that instead of paying $50 for a ship that will be outpowered next month, for the same money I can play one of the best games ever made. For $100 i can play 2. GTAV and TW3 have at the least 300hrs of pure fun gameplay.
You can add Bloodborne to that as well for a price of one 3part ship set in STO.
defending laziness and greed of STO devs is so counterproductive for your own cause.
They have managed to ruin Star Trek as a franchise for many people and annihilate faith that sometime we might get a good Star Trek game.
^^ this x1000
but hey people can always pay 50 euros for ships (or hundred for keys to buy lockbox ships) and then get their stuffs outdate.Im not even counting if you buy that 50euros game during the sale.
p.s . on max settings in Witcher 3 I get more fps than in sto arena lol
Never seen this vgchartz before....but Witcher 3 already has 3 nominations for GoTY and is #1 on Forbes, PCGamer and IGN at current. 10 days is quite a bit of time for a game as hyped as Witcher 3 has been. Hell, Dragon Age 3 won GoTY 3-4 weeks after it came out.
Yes, we've gotten the shaft so far. Yes, we've all paid our dues, either via subscription time (including before F2P), or buying ships/upgrading gear/lockboxes.
But the name of the game now is monetization, and it really seems that like that's the only way we're going to see any PvP development.
Bort has kindly indicated that he does still read threads in the PvP section, but he's reluctant to reply since it's a "minefield." Which, I think we can all agree with.
Yes, we know that it's not our fault that PvP is the way that it is, and the community is admittedly toxic due to all of the frustrations behind years of no development/backwards movement due to power creep.
But going around in those circles again isn't going to help - we need to help either find ways or suggest ways that would monetize PvP in an effort to maybe get them to decide that it's worth (both financially and time wise) to develop for us.
What do you think? Map packs? Game types/queues that are "unlocked" via the C-Store? Exclusive mods/gear? Buying a token that allows yourself to be ranked on an official leaderboard? "Premium" queues that are even out teams via match making?
Everything in the game is monotized. So if this game has pvp and its in the game that has Everything monotized then PVP is alrady monotized. The only thing they could do to make it more monotized it double the price of everything. Witch is coming.
Like I said earlier, it's a crappy ARPG. Some folks like them. I don't. It's not a CRPG.
The platform game = junk stuff is sort of dead.
Lets be honest STO could run on a current gen Box... and look and perform better then it would on 90% of machines running it right now. I haven't played this one yet and yes Witcher 3 looks pretty cool.. I am sure I will.
The thing for Cryptic and every dev really is no one judges apples to apples ever on anything. Walt Disney used to tell his employees that their competition was anyone that sold anything. People compare the level of service they get at a bank with the service they just got at the coffee shop. Its human nature.
When it comes to games... Cryptic isn't competing with just the handful of other Space MMOs on the market... the list doesn't end at CCP and Bio. It also doesn't end at MMO.
Regardless not sure what point I was trying to make about the Witcher other then to say the "console = junk" thing is very 2000 in 2015 Computer hardware has mostly slowed because ya most people realize fun games doesn't mean 100,000,000,000 polygon counts. I have been having more fun playing the cell game lately at Agar.io then I have playing any high GFX production. Game companies go where the money is... and game play comes first. So perhaps that is the point I was trying to make... Cryptic needs to focus on Game play, that is all anyone really cares about when it comes down to it.
Build a fun game and people will play it, even if the GFX could have run an an Intellivision.
Comments
That's what I'm afraid of. Cryptic is Cryptic, and they - or PWE - might get greedy and try to cash in by selling packs that slowly get more OP than the last, until they've ruined the whole idea. Kind of like they did with ships.
Oh Virus...
*slap*
You're hired.
The PvP community is not overly large. Whatever PvP items Cryptic puts in the Z-store has to be justified (remember, this is the reason the KDF is not getting a T6 science ship). Are there enough PvP'ers to buy your PvP-centric items?
You might want to consider increasing the size of the PvP community in addition to brainstorming ways to give Cryptic your money. I realize this becomes a "chicken and the egg" sort of situation, but if there were more PvP'ers, your ideas may travel farther.
the field has been salted by cryptic, the pvp community cannot grow on its own without an act of god (actual development and paid work hours contributed to pvp) from the devs.
It's where it gets pretty complex.
Need to drive/attract new business.
Need to retain business.
Need to return business (players that left previously).
But before touching any of that, wouldn't one need to...
Check the market atmosphere to see if it would be a profitable venture?
Ask is there enough of a demand out there to look at it?
What competition is there?
What does this game offer they don't?
What could this game offer they don't?
And it goes on and on and on and on...
...it's not a magic wand thing, yeah?
"Let's find a way to get developers money".
Crazy fkn idea: how about they make a decent game with decent content on decent servers with decent balance?
Rockstar makes decent(read:great game aka GTA V)-they vent on to sell 58 million copies, without selling gimmicks or power creep items.
CDPR makes what's arguably best and biggest and most beautiful RPG of all time. an RPG with no grinding involved, an RPG where player choice matters, praised by players and critics.
What do they do?
They announce FREE DLC missions.
So, my suggestion is that Cryptic needs to make a decent game first.
No more power creep F2P / P2W games without content for me. lazy, uninspired and waste of a good franchise licence.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
The premise of this thread has been that if there is a financial incentive to concentrate on PvP, then PvP will get attention.
It would have been nice if PvP had gotten more attention up till now. The reality is, that it hasn't appeared to have gotten much Dev attention compared to other parts of the game. The attention it has gotten has generally involved the Devs modifying some power to try to make it less unbalanced, which has unfortunately given rise to the notion that PvP'ers are all about nerfing the game. (Not true. More about the Devs altering a power to make it more WAI in their own eyes.)
Some people think PvP is a lost cause.
Some people are not at peace with the idea of leaving PvP as it is, or taking it out of the game. They want to see it fixed.
If Cryptic is not already on board with the idea that they need PvP to complete the big picture, the only way to change that is to change the minds of whoever's in charge and convince them that PvP is too lucrative to abandon.
That's the idea, anyway.
Telling Cryptic to "make a decent game" isn't constructive. Suggesting specific reasonable changes, whether or not Cryptic actually makes them, is at least an attempt to be constructive.
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You see, you are completely wrong.
- I don't need to be constructive. I am a customer. When the product is good, I as a customer don't need to get out of my way to find a way to make other people spend money on it to convince developers to put more dev time in it.
- In normal world, developers make good game and people spend money on it. Players don't spend one second to think for developers how to make this and that.
- Power Creep microtransactions instead of even paid story expansions and content DLCs with grinding instead of gameplay are signs of very bad product.
- So to conclude: If developers want people to come back at all(and maybe spend money later) they need to make a good product. But I'm not certain they can or will.
As it is now, PVP in this game is dead. Even forums are dead.
I come by every now and then to see 10 new posts from all the same last survivors in like 7 days.
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#1. Veterans mixed with newbs (new players are 'encouraged' to leave when stomped in seconds by vets)
#2. X is OP, plz nerf (Translation: abilities need balancing)
#3. The missions are bland/repetitive (fly here, kill X players, defend this location...)
#4. The rewards are not worth the time/effort investment. (PvP is inherantly more difficult than PvE, yet rewards are significantly less...)
I'm not terribly opposed to Cryptic making money in the PvP area, I'm just concerned that doing so will make it impossible for non-paying players to win against paying players...
Before we talk about how Cryptic can get more money from players, perhaps we should discuss how to make playing PvP worthwhile for players without requiring significant investment of manhours on Cryptic's part?
Perhaps implementing a Dilithium time based reward system like foundry missions have, paired with an 'inactivity check' like the AFK penalties in STFs, would make playing a PvP mission rewarding, but only if players actually did something? lol
Adding something like 'PvP Credits' which can be earned through matches and used to purchase items like PvP consumables, or special uniform items, titles, and such...
This could be monetized by selling PvP bundles in the C-Store which could contain some PvP credits, or consumables, or maybe a slim chance of one of the special items I mentioned above...
Some time ago way back when, Cryptic used to sell 'ship skins' perhaps this could be re-examined for PvP? Maybe offer up a bad-TRIBBLE ship skin* for some Zen, but only if a player has X PvP score** or higher?
*Something that would be different than normal ship appearances, like a chrome/black paint job for an Andromeda... or something to that extent. lol
**PvP score would be some kind of tally as to how many victories/losses a player has or some simmilar function.
wrong. PvP is not repetitive. The "kill X player" is the fun part, which makes you able to proceed on your mission objective, let that be kill count, conquering or defending.
PvP is already behind a huge paywall, they can't increase that paywall by making it P2W, and they're perfectly aware of that.
I don't know if you have ever played guild wars 2 but they already answered this problem where they make just as money off pvp as they do various services and costumes.
The first way they did in translation to STO is when you enter your pvp lobby you have a specific PvP setup that loads so you can just leave it and go back to your normal pve setup after you leave. Then the stats of everyone are based on a selection so no pay to win excuses and then different setups are free and then some you would pay dilithium for which would work the same and profitable still with STO. The next aspect is they have a system like no other where when you are killed per say in traditional mmorpgs you have a chance to come back. Now with this functionality if STO had one the way you finally kill a player they have what they call finishers that if you completely finish off your target it has an animation you have selected to play once you've beaten someone. They pump these "finishers" out like wild fire and they sell big time. To give an example one thing people may like would be one that has an armitage firing a spread of torpedoes and then their ship exploding or something like that.
Then on top of that they have tournaments which are put up where their are prizes and such and that is where they get their big twitch views so you can watch a PvP tournament live. IN doing so another way to monetize it is before a blog is put out in one of these kinds of tournaments have a stage where people are using various lockbox items/ships/etc where you are visually advertising and promoting the lockboxes in a way never done before where you would get to see them in action before ever going after one to buy.
As well they can always come up with something other than this its just an attempt by me to show(not trying to flame anyone) that they can make money off of it. As well where its not a grind but something fun to do that will "fill their coffers".
It's debatable, you seem to have different opinions of PvP than I, which is ok, but it doesn't make me any more wrong than it makes you.
Personally I don't like the 'Kill X players' as being a primary objective, I'd prefer misisons to have an objective outside of this. There are times where I just want a simple 'Kill X player' mission, but some variety would be a welcome change.
And yes, I do agree making PvP more P2W than it is now is a terrible idea and would just manage to drive more people away from PvP.
I'm sure there are some ways that Cryptic can make $$ from PvPers without making PvP pay-2-win, we (players and devs) just have to be creative and careful on what to do with it.
With presets... meh. You don't even know how it's set up, the doffs, keybinds, nor have knowledge & expertise needed to fly the ship at its best.
So yeah, PvP loadouts that are made by Cryptic is a baaaad idea.
But it is, unfortunately... more or less. Well it depends. For how STO is set up, there's no other way than ship fighting for doing PvP. The other Trek way would be diplomacy and constant talking for treaties, but would you really spend your time doing that? I'd rather pick up the guns and let them speak for me :P
Plus we're speaking of players, it'd just end up the way that nobody speaks and fighting comes in.
There's nothing wrong in saying that continuous combat gets tedious after a while: it sure was for me when I did premade vs premade. Those were long, you really didn't have any energy left to keep on playing after lol.
I agree on adding new game modes, but as it stands space combat is a permanent variable in STO, which is of no surprise. I'd consider the opposite to be anomalous.
Different people like different things. You'd have a hard time paying me enough to play GTA. And I had to Google CDPR...and the first result was California Department of Pesticide Regulation. And well, that's not a RPG...it's an ARPG. I don't play those either.
And well, comparing those two games to the ongoing development of a MMO...well...duh, it's not going to be similar.
So uh...
You see, you are completely wrong. :P
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http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2015/Global/
Global Top 10 Year to Date
1) The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D (3DS)
2) Grand Theft Auto V (PS4)
3) Battlefield: Hardline (PS4)
4) The Order 1866 (PS4)
5) Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (PS4)
6) Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (3DS)
7) Bloodborne (PS4)
8) Dying Light (PS4)
9) Monster Hunter 4G (3DS)
10) Battlefield: Hardline (XOne)
So STO should be more like Zelda, Pokemon, and Monster Hunter...yeah?
They should can the PC version and do a 3DS game.
But YOU are not the player this thread is attempting to engage. As a customer, you're perfectly willing to shun the product if they don't give you what you want... and that's fine.
The people who are suggesting monetary incentives for Cryptic to develop PVP don't want to shun the product. They're desperate for a reason to keep wanting to play it, specifically the PvP aspect.
I'm only here because I think the PvP community is important, and because, well, I'm supposed to mod these forums. I don't actually play PvP, so take anything I say on that topic with a grain of salt. It's just an opinion, no better than anybody else's.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I think Cryptic is missing a major cash cow and lots of repeat logins by not creating some kind of tournament system, or putting things into PvP that would let the community run its' own tournaments. With no real leaderboard and no tiered competition, the whole thing is just another way to kill time (and the opposition).
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
100% yes.
But, after all, we were told that leaderboards and tournament queues were "in testing to be released soon" in July of 2010. A solid 5 years ago.
Surely, if it was so close to being complete, they can dust it off and finally put them in?
I keep wondering if they'll take a look at some of what's going on in Swordsman Online (a PWE game)...with what they have with their monthly PvP leaderboard things and even the different forms of PvP Arenas they have.
I'd taken some screenies a wee bit back...
Boards...
http://i.imgur.com/7Iwca8I.png
http://i.imgur.com/IEbH1aA.png
Arena Modes...
http://i.imgur.com/mj3bhLT.png
Battlefield Stuff...
http://i.imgur.com/gglUDPM.png
http://i.imgur.com/zcPxhTH.png
http://i.imgur.com/HdA9Dvc.png
Reward Stuff...
http://i.imgur.com/DihyqOm.png
Battlefield Modes...
http://i.imgur.com/bq28Haa.png
http://i.imgur.com/rwFse1b.png
PvP Currency...
http://i.imgur.com/aYGG53p.png
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As far as getting into some underlying things potentially drive business so that it can be monetized.
This ^
PvP is zero enjoyment for this reason alone. I'll buy ships for PvE all day long (personally spent $250 in the last 2 months), but anything PvP oriented won't get a dime from me pretty much ever as long as this is the way its going to be.
It's a bad enough experience that even if they change it now, I doubt I'd bother trying. It's not a "hmmm, maybe I should give it another shot." thing. It's more of a tried once and done, done, done.
Er...but that's kind of the problem over in PvE, no?
Folks in the same boat...one does less than 10k and the other does over 75k.
It's a 75k build, but the 10k player's not doing 75k...why?
Cause that player didn't improve...they improved their ship.
Templates...would be a test of improving the player rather than what particular set of gimmicks they hope to carry that their opponent might not have the counters for...
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Besides, given they can do different things with Public and Private...would there be any reason they couldn't do Public Template and Private Custom?
Consoles, consoles and other stupid items..
But really its too far gone, star-ship traits, consoles and ships that is so far of the norm.
When sto was in pure in the beginning there was the turn rate battles between escorts, cruisers and science ships had valid builds and they where all about equal, sure dps was important but you could out heal escorts, snb was the eternal bad game design that made it so you had to use it to play competitive.
Then the game got dumb loads of swarms of bad minion fighters, clouds that drained shields and shields that where bugged, sure they got fixed but then they added elite shields that where just as bad imo. Teleportation console made carriers alright, but in all honesty this console made the game easier.
Maybe it would be more fun to start with fixing shuttle pvp sense that doesn't matter for other parts of the game.
Well, The Witcher 3 was released 10 days ago so it can't possibly be in top ten of the year so far.
But it's the best game from that list by far.
Ongoing development of MMO?
STO is 5 years online? developed how much more before that?
TW3 was made in 3-4. But i'm not comparing.
I'm directly saying that instead of paying $50 for a ship that will be outpowered next month, for the same money I can play one of the best games ever made. For $100 i can play 2. GTAV and TW3 have at the least 300hrs of pure fun gameplay.
You can add Bloodborne to that as well for a price of one 3part ship set in STO.
defending laziness and greed of STO devs is so counterproductive for your own cause.
They have managed to ruin Star Trek as a franchise for many people and annihilate faith that sometime we might get a good Star Trek game.
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^^ this x1000
but hey people can always pay 50 euros for ships (or hundred for keys to buy lockbox ships) and then get their stuffs outdate.Im not even counting if you buy that 50euros game during the sale.
p.s . on max settings in Witcher 3 I get more fps than in sto arena lol
10 days is an eternity in video games these days.
Everything in the game is monotized. So if this game has pvp and its in the game that has Everything monotized then PVP is alrady monotized. The only thing they could do to make it more monotized it double the price of everything. Witch is coming.
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http://buy.thewitcher.com/?lang=en&country=US
Crossplatform games go to the weakest link...
...consoles...weak.
Like I said earlier, it's a crappy ARPG. Some folks like them. I don't. It's not a CRPG.
The platform game = junk stuff is sort of dead.
Lets be honest STO could run on a current gen Box... and look and perform better then it would on 90% of machines running it right now. I haven't played this one yet and yes Witcher 3 looks pretty cool.. I am sure I will.
The thing for Cryptic and every dev really is no one judges apples to apples ever on anything. Walt Disney used to tell his employees that their competition was anyone that sold anything. People compare the level of service they get at a bank with the service they just got at the coffee shop. Its human nature.
When it comes to games... Cryptic isn't competing with just the handful of other Space MMOs on the market... the list doesn't end at CCP and Bio. It also doesn't end at MMO.
Regardless not sure what point I was trying to make about the Witcher other then to say the "console = junk" thing is very 2000 in 2015 Computer hardware has mostly slowed because ya most people realize fun games doesn't mean 100,000,000,000 polygon counts. I have been having more fun playing the cell game lately at Agar.io then I have playing any high GFX production. Game companies go where the money is... and game play comes first. So perhaps that is the point I was trying to make... Cryptic needs to focus on Game play, that is all anyone really cares about when it comes down to it.
Build a fun game and people will play it, even if the GFX could have run an an Intellivision.