You really think it's appropriate to talk to her that way?! Well, I don't. Reported.
P.S. Honestly, I don't know what it is, but for a thread that was just supposed to be about showing a few of our top players doing some fun things, this thread sure engenders some weird vibes.
So it sounds like this was done mostly by team tactics, especially the attack pattern beta from Recluse? I really am curious if such a thing could be possible without FOMM and APA from tactical captain powers. I can't tell how much of a difference those really made.
Yes! He could get 55k by simply farting at the Borg!
:rolleyes:
Must have eaten a lot of beans to achieve that.
Or did you mean Ryan was acting a bit pompous (i believe the expression is "full of hot air").
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
So it sounds like this was done mostly by team tactics, especially the attack pattern beta from Recluse? I really am curious if such a thing could be possible without FOMM and APA from tactical captain powers. I can't tell how much of a difference those really made.
Without any damage resistance debuffs he's still getting 55k, and FOMM is a debuff, so that should take care of that. Not sure how to account for APA, it may be easier to try and see the difference between a Tac and a non-Tac.
From the DPS records, we can see that the average top 5 of each career is:
To top off everything being stated I wanna see people that go blah blah blah about their dps play a game where its strategy over gear grind and see how well they do lol.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
To top off everything being stated I wanna see people that go blah blah blah about their dps play a game where its strategy over gear grind and see how well they do lol.
Do you really believe that it was only the gear?
Or that these top dps gamers cant have strategic thinking?
If anything this videos proves otherwise, they just made a stupid easy mission that requires no thinking, one wich most of the player base does, just my mashing the space bar, into a show of team work with buffs/debuffs, heals and positioning timed at the second.
I'm willing to bet that players that find their fun in understanding the game mechanics as deeply as they can and taking the time to master the execution of pre planed strategies, will most likely do well in any type of game they put their efforts in.
Debuff stacking is part of the teamwork. Or did anyone claim that the NX could do that damage solo? Maybe we should overlook your comment....
Sure it is. But this is not simply teamwork. It requires a tightly limited set of abilities, ships and pets to achieve it.
It's problematic not because it's teamwork, it's problematic because there is only a very small type of setup that can even get you there, and a lot of it is just stacking multiple things of the same. (Aka Attack Pattern Beta III stacking via pets).
A better balanced game would allow a lot more options to achieve the top end results. ANd most likely the top end results would not be that "top", because the difference between low and top end is too high and makes designing the game impractical.
On the one hand it's amazing where you can get. But if you look behind the curtain, you start to think it's a bit lame and not really how it should work. Teamwork or no teamwork.
Of course, one shouldn't misconstrue this as saying it's a meaningless attempt, or didn't require skill. I strongly suspect that for the top end, just having and popping the right buffs is just the start. Positioning and timing can still be important.
The problem, from a game design perspective - is that the amount of setups that can get there is too small. There must be more potential for experimentation and variation, even at the top end.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Or that these top dps gamers cant have strategic thinking?
Of course not. You have to be able to think to select the gear. But to say the damage is coming from the ship and "allow" people to believe its being done, no, encourage people to believe that it is being done in any traditional way is sort of icky.
I mean it isn't really being hidden. There's the parse right there at the end. If you know what you're looking for it's plain it isn't anywhere close to being 'traditional'.
And that's OKAY by ME! I don't have any issue with that, or with having fun. It's the sleight of hand that's annoying.
Without any damage resistance debuffs he's still getting 55k, and FOMM is a debuff, so that should take care of that.
Yeah, I looked a little closer to see where all that damage is coming from. On the second run, at 3:00 in, he has only done 8K dps, which is still very respectable. But then with APA up, he hits tactical fleet, Romulan Rep power, launches isometric charge and torpedo spread, subspace vortex, spatial charges, among others. All of this is directed at the nice group of spheres for plasma splash damage to multiply. By the time APA wears off at 3:22 he is over 105K DPS.
To look at it a different way here was the damage he had done:
3:00 - 114,337 3:22 - 3,789,617
0:22 - 3,675,280 = 167K DPS
So without APA giving around +50% damage and TacFleet giving +37% damage during that span, what would that have looked like? Those are damage strength bonuses, I think, which results in a multiplier of 1.87, though I am not sure how best to account for that, given the unknowns about other damage bonuses. Assuming one can divide out the 1.87 multiplier to remove the effect, the damage during that span would be something like 1,965,390 for a DPS of 89K during that span. The difference is 1,709,889 due to those two powers, assuming correct calculation.If we remove that figure from the final number (ignoring all the Crit bonuses and other time they may have been up), that results in a net of about 56K DPS for the run.
If there are errors or omissions, please correct away, but my only question is how big of an impact those two powers makes here. As a sci captain I often find myself wondering how players can destroy things so quickly, only to realize a big part of it was the timely activation of those two powers.
EDIT: So my damage calculation seems to be way off. Since the weapons he fired weren't modified by weapon power I thought strength could be factors out easily, but I forgot about the skill points into PartGens and Aux power that need to be taken into account. Not trying to be negative, so please don't take it that way. Honestly just curious what a Sci capt would have to do to pull off similar dazzlery and what magnitude might be expected.
Of course not. You have to be able to think to select the gear. But to say the damage is coming from the ship and "allow" people to believe its being done, no, encourage people to believe that it is being done in any traditional way is sort of icky.
I mean it isn't really being hidden. There's the parse right there at the end. If you know what you're looking for it's plain it isn't anywhere close to being 'traditional'.
And that's OKAY by ME! I don't have any issue with that, or with having fun. It's the sleight of hand that's annoying.
I have no issues there, the only thing that i see differently is that i don't see were the sleight of hand is, or that there is any attempt at misleading other players.
He even has a video were he goes through the replay of the run explaining what he was doing, just after spending 30 minutes explaining timings and power activations.
I would tend to interpret that as an helpful thing rather than misleading.
Why, fellow magicians, I eagerly await your vids performing the same hopelessly transparent act! :P If not, I'll leave you with the words of Morpheus: "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."
This.
It is one matter to know how a thing is done. It is another to be able execute that task flawlessly.
Rather than a magician's act, I think a demonstration like this is best thought of in the same way that one regards an exhibition air show. Neither the pilots nor the organizers are laboring under the delusion that all of these stunts and tricks bear any resemblence to everyday commercial or military piloting. It is simply an exhibition of skill in a controlled environment.
Also, less hate plox. Some of what's been posted in this thread is akin to the guy who scoffs at professional athletes and says "for $20 million I could do that". Well, Sparky, how about you do so and get back to us.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Rather than a magician's act, I think a demonstration like this is best thought of in the same way that one regards an exhibition air show. Neither the pilots nor the organizers are laboring under the delusion that all of these stunts and tricks bear any resemblence to everyday commercial or military piloting. It is simply an exhibition of skill in a controlled environment.
An air show is actually a *very* good analogy! Those guys aren't exactly drawing fractals in the sky with their planes, but it all nonetheless requires incredible precision timing and the strictest of mental discipline.
And I, for one, LOL, can hardly do it at all. :P Looks easy enough when I see Ryan do it: just press the right key at the right time. In reality, though, it requires an astounding hand-eye coordination, and high concentration. I.e., when I do it, I usually manage to stay in the 'zone' for just a few seconds; then things start to blur, in the thick of it, and I can't make head or tales out of all the flashing weps' icons any more. Then I basically lost that narrow cycling window, and I proceed, half-panicky, to just press kinda... everything! Which is not to say I didn't make any progress at all; but I long since resigned to the notion that these folks are a wee bit out of my (DPS) League. And there's no shame in that either, actually, as there're only, what, like 15 other ppl in this entire game who can pull it off. That's probably one of the main reasons I have respect for them.
You are aware that this is a server-based game, right?
Aside from that, accusations of hacking -- which is against the ToS -- is serious business and hacking's not to be discussed on the forums per forum rules.
So I'm going to close the door on that right now. Stop throwing around public accusations you can't back up, and no more discussion about modifying game files.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
You are aware that this is a server-based game, right?
Aside from that, accusations of hacking -- which is against the ToS -- is serious business and hacking's not to be discussed on the forums per forum rules.
So I'm going to close the door on that right now. Stop throwing around public accusations you can't back up, and no more discussion about modifying game files.
It's a nice trick and solid teamwork, but what these DPS videos are really showcasing is a serious flaw in the game mechanics.
Tactical abilities like Attack Pattern Alpha and fire on my mark boost/debuff for all damage. Both weapon damage and exotic. Tactical players can lay down more effective GW/TR than science and better BFAW than engineers. Seriously?
Tactical abilities should only have an effect on weapon damage.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
It's a nice trick and solid teamwork, but what these DPS videos are really showcasing is a serious flaw in the game mechanics.
Tactical abilities like Attack Pattern Alpha and fire on my mark boost/debuff for all damage. Both weapon damage and exotic. Tactical players can lay down more effective GW/TR than science and better BFAW than engineers. Seriously?
Tactical abilities should only have an effect on weapon damage.
*insert random insult about entitlement*
You CHOOSE to be an engineer and to fly cruisers knowing they aren't built to max-DPS so I'm not even gonna bother responding to your arguments.
It's a nice trick and solid teamwork, but what these DPS videos are really showcasing is a serious flaw in the game mechanics.
Tactical abilities like Attack Pattern Alpha and fire on my mark boost/debuff for all damage. Both weapon damage and exotic. Tactical players can lay down more effective GW/TR than science and better BFAW than engineers. Seriously?
Tactical abilities should only have an effect on weapon damage.
And I, for one, LOL, can hardly do it at all. :P Looks easy enough when I see Ryan do it: just press the right key at the right time. In reality, though, it requires an astounding hand-eye coordination, and high concentration. I.e., when I do it, I usually manage to stay in the 'zone' for just a few seconds; then things start to blur, in the thick of it, and I can't make head or tales out of all the flashing weps' icons any more. Then I basically lost that narrow cycling window, and I proceed, half-panicky, to just press kinda... everything!
Been there, done that but it was the Spock's protege test, which , of course, I failed :P
My piece of advice : do every run like it's a practice run, a training run ... rinse, repeat, observe and learn like it's just a training : you are not meant to score 100k in that run , your goal is just to train to improve yourself.
You TRIBBLE some cycle, you lost that cycling window, you just keep on because it's just another training session.
And I don't need to remind you that you are not the only one responsible of your overall DPS because there's a team behind you which can make the difference too.
Been there, done that but it was the Spock's protege test, which , of course, I failed :P
My piece of advice : do every run like it's a practice run, a training run ... rinse, repeat, observe and learn like it's just a training : you are not meant to score 100k in that run , your goal is just to train to improve yourself.
You TRIBBLE some cycle, you lost that cycling window, you just keep on because it's just another training session.
And I don't need to remind you that you are not the only one responsible of your overall DPS because there's a team behind you which can make the difference too.
Thanks! Treating it as just a training session is probably a very good idea, to take the pressure off and all. I still find it very hard to keep my eye on the enemy, and still watch for that small refresh cycle window; but I'll keep trying.
Comments
Seriously? You're a perfect example of why we can't have nice things. Grow up. Get a life.
You really think it's appropriate to talk to her that way?! Well, I don't. Reported.
P.S. Honestly, I don't know what it is, but for a thread that was just supposed to be about showing a few of our top players doing some fun things, this thread sure engenders some weird vibes.
Oh Alright! 9am Hammer It Is!
Must have eaten a lot of beans to achieve that.
Or did you mean Ryan was acting a bit pompous (i believe the expression is "full of hot air").
Without any damage resistance debuffs he's still getting 55k, and FOMM is a debuff, so that should take care of that. Not sure how to account for APA, it may be easier to try and see the difference between a Tac and a non-Tac.
From the DPS records, we can see that the average top 5 of each career is:
Sci: (79+70+69+65+64)/5 = 69.4k
Tac: (120+120+113+105+98)/5 = 113.6k
Eng: (67+63+61+59+57)/5 = 61.4k
Assuming a non-Tac to Tac ratio of 65.4k:113.6k, we'd be looking at ~31.7k for this run without debuffs like APB.
Still very respectable in a NX01.
Do you really believe that it was only the gear?
Or that these top dps gamers cant have strategic thinking?
If anything this videos proves otherwise, they just made a stupid easy mission that requires no thinking, one wich most of the player base does, just my mashing the space bar, into a show of team work with buffs/debuffs, heals and positioning timed at the second.
I'm willing to bet that players that find their fun in understanding the game mechanics as deeply as they can and taking the time to master the execution of pre planed strategies, will most likely do well in any type of game they put their efforts in.
Sure it is. But this is not simply teamwork. It requires a tightly limited set of abilities, ships and pets to achieve it.
It's problematic not because it's teamwork, it's problematic because there is only a very small type of setup that can even get you there, and a lot of it is just stacking multiple things of the same. (Aka Attack Pattern Beta III stacking via pets).
A better balanced game would allow a lot more options to achieve the top end results. ANd most likely the top end results would not be that "top", because the difference between low and top end is too high and makes designing the game impractical.
On the one hand it's amazing where you can get. But if you look behind the curtain, you start to think it's a bit lame and not really how it should work. Teamwork or no teamwork.
Of course, one shouldn't misconstrue this as saying it's a meaningless attempt, or didn't require skill. I strongly suspect that for the top end, just having and popping the right buffs is just the start. Positioning and timing can still be important.
The problem, from a game design perspective - is that the amount of setups that can get there is too small. There must be more potential for experimentation and variation, even at the top end.
Giggles are good and no one mistook shuttles for anything more than what they are.
Still a lot of hate in here. Stick to the giggles.
Of course not. You have to be able to think to select the gear. But to say the damage is coming from the ship and "allow" people to believe its being done, no, encourage people to believe that it is being done in any traditional way is sort of icky.
I mean it isn't really being hidden. There's the parse right there at the end. If you know what you're looking for it's plain it isn't anywhere close to being 'traditional'.
And that's OKAY by ME! I don't have any issue with that, or with having fun. It's the sleight of hand that's annoying.
Yeah, I looked a little closer to see where all that damage is coming from. On the second run, at 3:00 in, he has only done 8K dps, which is still very respectable. But then with APA up, he hits tactical fleet, Romulan Rep power, launches isometric charge and torpedo spread, subspace vortex, spatial charges, among others. All of this is directed at the nice group of spheres for plasma splash damage to multiply. By the time APA wears off at 3:22 he is over 105K DPS.
To look at it a different way here was the damage he had done:
3:00 - 114,337
3:22 - 3,789,617
0:22 - 3,675,280 = 167K DPS
So without APA giving around +50% damage and TacFleet giving +37% damage during that span, what would that have looked like? Those are damage strength bonuses, I think, which results in a multiplier of 1.87, though I am not sure how best to account for that, given the unknowns about other damage bonuses. Assuming one can divide out the 1.87 multiplier to remove the effect, the damage during that span would be something like 1,965,390 for a DPS of 89K during that span. The difference is 1,709,889 due to those two powers, assuming correct calculation.If we remove that figure from the final number (ignoring all the Crit bonuses and other time they may have been up), that results in a net of about 56K DPS for the run.
If there are errors or omissions, please correct away, but my only question is how big of an impact those two powers makes here. As a sci captain I often find myself wondering how players can destroy things so quickly, only to realize a big part of it was the timely activation of those two powers.
EDIT: So my damage calculation seems to be way off. Since the weapons he fired weren't modified by weapon power I thought strength could be factors out easily, but I forgot about the skill points into PartGens and Aux power that need to be taken into account. Not trying to be negative, so please don't take it that way. Honestly just curious what a Sci capt would have to do to pull off similar dazzlery and what magnitude might be expected.
I have no issues there, the only thing that i see differently is that i don't see were the sleight of hand is, or that there is any attempt at misleading other players.
He even has a video were he goes through the replay of the run explaining what he was doing, just after spending 30 minutes explaining timings and power activations.
I would tend to interpret that as an helpful thing rather than misleading.
also plz security officer on new romulus command
Silly person! :P To stay in the 'magical' spirit of the thread, allow me to paraphrase a well-known saying for you.
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from cheating."
It is one matter to know how a thing is done. It is another to be able execute that task flawlessly.
Rather than a magician's act, I think a demonstration like this is best thought of in the same way that one regards an exhibition air show. Neither the pilots nor the organizers are laboring under the delusion that all of these stunts and tricks bear any resemblence to everyday commercial or military piloting. It is simply an exhibition of skill in a controlled environment.
Also, less hate plox. Some of what's been posted in this thread is akin to the guy who scoffs at professional athletes and says "for $20 million I could do that". Well, Sparky, how about you do so and get back to us.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
An air show is actually a *very* good analogy!
And I, for one, LOL, can hardly do it at all. :P Looks easy enough when I see Ryan do it: just press the right key at the right time. In reality, though, it requires an astounding hand-eye coordination, and high concentration. I.e., when I do it, I usually manage to stay in the 'zone' for just a few seconds; then things start to blur, in the thick of it, and I can't make head or tales out of all the flashing weps' icons any more. Then I basically lost that narrow cycling window, and I proceed, half-panicky, to just press kinda... everything!
You are aware that this is a server-based game, right?
Aside from that, accusations of hacking -- which is against the ToS -- is serious business and hacking's not to be discussed on the forums per forum rules.
So I'm going to close the door on that right now. Stop throwing around public accusations you can't back up, and no more discussion about modifying game files.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
ok boss
Tactical abilities like Attack Pattern Alpha and fire on my mark boost/debuff for all damage. Both weapon damage and exotic. Tactical players can lay down more effective GW/TR than science and better BFAW than engineers. Seriously?
Tactical abilities should only have an effect on weapon damage.
*insert random insult about entitlement*
You CHOOSE to be an engineer and to fly cruisers knowing they aren't built to max-DPS so I'm not even gonna bother responding to your arguments.
This. Game needs more balance.
Been there, done that but it was the Spock's protege test, which , of course, I failed :P
My piece of advice : do every run like it's a practice run, a training run ... rinse, repeat, observe and learn like it's just a training : you are not meant to score 100k in that run , your goal is just to train to improve yourself.
You TRIBBLE some cycle, you lost that cycling window, you just keep on because it's just another training session.
And I don't need to remind you that you are not the only one responsible of your overall DPS because there's a team behind you which can make the difference too.
Thanks!
No, no, no.... its the DPEWPEWPEWIAT League
Woah it just occurred to me that i could talk in Rainbow Letters!!!
Okay that was very tedious and i'm never doing that again.