My guess is he's talking about debuff stacking. Something that wasn't practical to achieve when the game was launched, so it was never really considered.
If you didn't know about that, I suppose we can overlook your comment.
Or did you REALLY believe 70 k damage is coming out of the pipes on that ship? :rolleyes:
Cause that's not how that works.
Debuff stacking is part of the teamwork. Or did anyone claim that the NX could do that damage solo? Maybe we should overlook your comment....
How do you come to the conclusion that they're using "exploits"?
Sorry bad choice of term. Not exploit in the sense that it's exploiting some sort of bug. More like taking advantage of abilities that are far too powerful.
Shouldn't this be the standard measure of DPS? I've never understood why everyone uses premade teams with set agendas inside a specific instance (ISA) as the basis for what damage their ships can put out. Remove any aspect from it and it changes significantly.
Sorry bad choice of term. Not exploit in the sense that it's exploiting some sort of bug. More like taking advantage of abilities that are far too powerful.
The intent was to highlight imbalance :P
Well that all comes down to an individuals point of view. Because anything can be termed "too powerful" in the right hands. If there is an imbalance here, and note I said "IF" then surely the Development team should have spotted it by now. Especially after the bug with Embassy plasma consoles.
Shouldn't this be the standard measure of DPS? I've never understood why everyone uses premade teams with set agendas inside a specific instance (ISA) as the basis for what damage their ships can put out. Remove any aspect from it and it changes significantly.
Last time i checked STO is a MMO not a single player game. Your solo dps is nice and all but it could mean nothing in a team. When did benefiting from your teammates and making them better as well become a bad thing, especially in a MMO?
Shouldn't this be the standard measure of DPS? I've never understood why everyone uses premade teams with set agendas inside a specific instance (ISA) as the basis for what damage their ships can put out. Remove any aspect from it and it changes significantly.
Well, glass cannons usually do bad DPS in Defense of New Romulus, so we should use that. :P
(It's a Romulan only mission where you either tank like your life depends on it, or die. Even if you are good at tanking you still might die on normal.)
APB stacking Recluses and Scimitars, not even Holodeck.
Nothing to see here moving on... Wait, where's the Lost & Found office? I want the minute of my life back thanks.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
It's not an exploit to coordinate with teammates to use in-game mechanics (that are NOT being exploited, mind you) to achieve high numbers. There's a lot of research and planning that goes into which target(s) to engage, which abilities to use on which target(s), when to engage them, and positioning for the next move(s).
What some people don't get when they talk about how much the NX can do DPS-wise, is how much more work the other 4 teammates are doing to create the near-perfect scenario to make the feat happen. Everything from nanite destruction, to sphere collection, to the speed by which it was done allowed Ryan to use his abilities to be able to get the base DPS numbers that he did. Change any one of those variables, and the base DPS drops significantly.
This run is a testament to practice and good teamwork. Good job to all involved.
Come on this is a game with many facets, some like to play the story missions, some spend all day in the taylor having fun with costumes, others like to find the limits of the ships they fly. Being that building the perfect vape Bop or beating ISA dps records.
Why the intolerance and the negativity?
People on this forum are like:
Usain Bolt runs 100 metres in 9.58 secs and holds the world record
STO forumite 1: Bah, I'm not impressed he was running on a perfect Olimpic track, I want to see him do that on my neighbourhood streets were I jog.
STO forumite 2: ROFL, Nope not impressed it was just his team, I heard he has a dedicated personal trainer and even a fisician working on him, hell he even has people preparing him special food.
STO forumite 3: Yes I agree, its also the equipment, did you not notice his mk XIV gold running shoes.
Give him my boots and see if he can repeat it.
Oh and I almost forgot, his green shorts are clearly overpowered and unbalanced.
Did Usain Bolt run the 100 metres in record time just so that people stroke his "sportpeen"?
Does it really matter if an athlete can run 100m in 9.58 or 15 secs? Of course not! but im sure the athete found a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment by doing it and also did countless people that watched it.
These DPS runs are just like a sport they serve no real important purpose other than entertainment.
Ryan and other DPSers find their enjoyment in trying to find ways to make the game as difficult as possible, being it by beating DPS records, doing solo runs of team content or 2 manning No Win Scenario.
They spend countless hours testing equipment, doing math trying to reverse engineer the equations of the various game mechanics.
And then putting it all in practice in these runs.
Contrary to what many people on these forums seem to think, just like with the athlete example it is not trivial to achieve these dps numbers.
There is much planning going on, he did not use his powers randomly, he went in with is run already preplanned in order to have the most uptime on his buffs during the parts of the mission were they are most important.
Its not obvious to most of us that watch the videos the amount of skill involved, in positioning, in timing and sequence of power activations.
If you take close attention to his videos, you see that he just doesn't randomly mash the space bar. He activates his powers in determined sequences and only when needed, always taking care to only activate them when is weapons finished their activation cycles.
Little details that make all the difference in the end.
Those are the things that I really appreciate watching in this kind of videos, i really enjoy trying to figure out what he is doing at any giving time, there is so much we more casual player can learn doing this.
Its just like when i watch a concert I personally find as much enjoyment watching the skillfull hands of the musicians as from the music itself.
In the end what really matter is the fun we can have playing, its our precious free time after all.
If something is not fun to you and it doesn't really interferes with your enjoyment of the game what good does it do to go out of your way to devalue someone else's notion of fun?
I sure like watching this videos, and learn many things that make me a better player so I say keep them coming.
Usain Bolt runs 100 metres in 9.58 secs and holds the world record
STO forumite 1: Bah, I'm not impressed he was running on a perfect Olimpic track, I want to see him do that on my neighbourhood streets were I jog.
STO forumite 2: ROFL, Nope not impressed it was just his team, I heard he has a dedicated personal trainer and even a fisician working on him, hell he even has people preparing him special food.
STO forumite 3: Yes I agree, its also the equipment, did you not notice his mk XIV gold running shoes.
Give him my boots and see if he can repeat it.
Oh and I almost forgot, his green shorts are clearly overpowered and unbalanced.
Come on this is a game with many facets, some like to play the story missions, some spend all day in the taylor having fun with costumes, others like to find the limits of the ships they fly. Being that building the perfect vape Bop or beating ISA dps records.
Why the intolerance and the negativity?
People on this forum are like:
Usain Bolt runs 100 metres in 9.58 secs and holds the world record
STO forumite 1: Bah, I'm not impressed he was running on a perfect Olimpic track, I want to see him do that on my neighbourhood streets were I jog.
STO forumite 2: ROFL, Nope not impressed it was just his team, I heard he has a dedicated personal trainer and even a fisician working on him, hell he even has people preparing him special food.
STO forumite 3: Yes I agree, its also the equipment, did you not notice his mk XIV gold running shoes.
Give him my boots and see if he can repeat it.
Yes. Cranking out lots of numbers in a B Title video game is the exact same thing as holding an Olympic world record.
Umm it could mean the opposite, seeing as PvE is so easy you can do advanced difficulty in a low tier ship...
Haha! No. Just because an expert makes it *look* easy, doesn't mean it is. (To whom it may concern), Go try it for yourself, and find out the hard way.
they're a great "In your face!" to those who keep saying PvE requires no skiill. :P
Umm it could mean the opposite, seeing as PvE is so easy you can do advanced difficulty in a low tier ship...
I'd say it's along the lines of what bob's saying there. What Ryan & Co. do isn't a reflection of the PvE content requiring skill...it's a challenge they created for themselves.
If it were a case that there was content that only a small part of the playerbase could tackle...then that content could be said to require skill. HSE comes to mind. The vast majority of the content in the game though? That's a different story.
But trying to point to the challenges that Ryan & Co. have created for themselves to demonstrate their skill as evidence that PvE itself requires skill...is kind of laughable, and well - misrepresenting what's going on in some attempt to make one appear better than they are while still not coming anywhere near Ryan & Co....imho.
Haha! No. Just because an expert makes it *look* easy, doesn't mean it is. (To whom it may concern), Go try it for yourself, and find out the hard way.
Haha! No. It's easy because it's easy. I soloed Molten Core. This morning before breakfast. And that's exactly as relevant and exciting to its MMO as ISA is to STO.
And, as a point of fact, he didn't even try it for himself. He brought the required Recluse and three Scimitars with pets.
If you consider flying slow circles in a cruiser around things that don't move, hey okay, by that measure your correct. Good stuff!
Yes. Cranking out lots of numbers in a B Title video game is the exact same thing as holding an Olympic world record.
No its not the exact same thing, but the concept is not that different either, its just a numbers game one has more spectators than the other but, in the core its just about trying to improve oneself in a very specific task that other than entertainment doesn't impact the lively wood of others.
I didnt compare him to a Gandhi, Madre Teresa or on the other side of the spectrum Alexander the Great
or Gengis Khan
No its not the exact same thing, but the concept is not that different either, its just a numbers game one has more spectators than the other but, in the core its just about trying to improve oneself in a very specific task that other than entertainment doesn't impact the lively wood of others.
I didnt compare him to a Gandhi, Madre Teresa or on the other side of the spectrum Alexander the Great
or Gengis Khan
I give you permission to impact ALL the lively wood everywhere!
And on another note.
And misrepresentatio is misrepresentation. Anyway you slice it.
EDIT: Gotta say I'm liking this thread though. And the other retro thread of big video challenges that was put up. It's like effing retro week in here with years old new stuff!
I think the Olympic analogy is a little much. I compare it more to a magician's act.
Yes, the magic act is truly magical on the surface. It's all about theatrics and showmanship. I'm sure there are plenty of spectators who are amazed at what they can do.
But then there are other magicians out there, or skeptics/cynics who recognize the magic act for what it is, an illusion dressed up in showmanship and theatrics.
The illusion is not so impressive when you know how the trick is performed. There are people in this thread who know how the magic trick is performed, and aren't impressed.
But trying to point to the challenges that Ryan & Co. have created for themselves to demonstrate their skill as evidence that PvE itself requires skill...is kind of laughable, and well - misrepresenting what's going on in some attempt to make one appear better than they are while still not coming anywhere near Ryan & Co....imho.
Whoa!? Was that some strange dig at me?! Well, then let me just point you to the second paragraph of this out there.
Now, with that out of the way, your notion that PvE requires no skill is rather, erm, limited. Because there's doing something, and doing it right. It's like saying every noob can play chess, if by that you mean they only know the moves; but if you want to be the top player, you'll need considerable skill.
The challenge RyanSTO et al. have set for themselves is not to just do isa, but do it with maximal efficiency (aka, getting the most DPS out if it). The former everyone can do; the latter, not so much.
I think the Olympic analogy is a little much. I compare it more to a magician's act.
Yes, the magic act is truly magical on the surface. It's all about theatrics and showmanship. I'm sure there are plenty of spectators who are amazed at what they can do.
But then there are other magicians out there, or skeptics/cynics who recognize the magic act for what it is, an illusion dressed up in showmanship and theatrics.
The illusion is not so impressive when you know how the trick is performed. There are people in this thread who know how the magic trick is performed, and aren't impressed.
That's pretty much it. It's cute once. It could even be cute each time.
It stops being cute when the magician seems convinced it's real. Clap if you believe!
I think the Olympic analogy is a little much. I compare it more to a magician's act.
Yes, the magic act is truly magical on the surface. It's all about theatrics and showmanship. I'm sure there are plenty of spectators who are amazed at what they can do.
But then there are other magicians out there, or skeptics/cynics who recognize the magic act for what it is, an illusion dressed up in showmanship and theatrics.
The illusion is not so impressive when you know how the trick is performed. There are people in this thread who know how the magic trick is performed, and aren't impressed.
Why, fellow magicians, I eagerly await your vids performing the same hopelessly transparent act! :P If not, I'll leave you with the words of Morpheus: "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."
I give you permission to impact ALL the lively wood everywhere! ...
Lol, you are correct, I just looked lively wood in the dictionary, and I'm laughing my TRIBBLE off, sorry english is not my main language,
what I meant to say is that both of them are tasks that dont matter to lives of people outside of entertainment. The world would be exactly the same if an athlete runs 100m in 9 or 10 secs.
I think the Olympic analogy is a little much. I compare it more to a magician's act.
Yes, the magic act is truly magical on the surface. It's all about theatrics and showmanship. I'm sure there are plenty of spectators who are amazed at what they can do.
But then there are other magicians out there, or skeptics/cynics who recognize the magic act for what it is, an illusion dressed up in showmanship and theatrics.
The illusion is not so impressive when you know how the trick is performed. There are people in this thread who know how the magic trick is performed, and aren't impressed.
Hehe they are the wizards of sto after all
Yes I can know how the magician does the trick but that doesn't mean that I have the acting skill or even the dexterity to replicate the trick
Comments
base dps was 51.845 DPS - which would be the value without any damage resistance debuffs (mostly beta because everyone likes recluse ;D).
Debuff stacking is part of the teamwork. Or did anyone claim that the NX could do that damage solo? Maybe we should overlook your comment....
My character Tsin'xing
Sorry bad choice of term. Not exploit in the sense that it's exploiting some sort of bug. More like taking advantage of abilities that are far too powerful.
The intent was to highlight imbalance :P
Shouldn't this be the standard measure of DPS? I've never understood why everyone uses premade teams with set agendas inside a specific instance (ISA) as the basis for what damage their ships can put out. Remove any aspect from it and it changes significantly.
Well that all comes down to an individuals point of view. Because anything can be termed "too powerful" in the right hands. If there is an imbalance here, and note I said "IF" then surely the Development team should have spotted it by now. Especially after the bug with Embassy plasma consoles.
Last time i checked STO is a MMO not a single player game. Your solo dps is nice and all but it could mean nothing in a team. When did benefiting from your teammates and making them better as well become a bad thing, especially in a MMO?
(It's a Romulan only mission where you either tank like your life depends on it, or die. Even if you are good at tanking you still might die on normal.)
My character Tsin'xing
Nothing to see here moving on... Wait, where's the Lost & Found office? I want the minute of my life back thanks.
Old habits die hard. This PvPer wants to be interested in PvE though!
Here's hoping...
What some people don't get when they talk about how much the NX can do DPS-wise, is how much more work the other 4 teammates are doing to create the near-perfect scenario to make the feat happen. Everything from nanite destruction, to sphere collection, to the speed by which it was done allowed Ryan to use his abilities to be able to get the base DPS numbers that he did. Change any one of those variables, and the base DPS drops significantly.
This run is a testament to practice and good teamwork. Good job to all involved.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Why the intolerance and the negativity?
People on this forum are like:
Usain Bolt runs 100 metres in 9.58 secs and holds the world record
STO forumite 1: Bah, I'm not impressed he was running on a perfect Olimpic track, I want to see him do that on my neighbourhood streets were I jog.
STO forumite 2: ROFL, Nope not impressed it was just his team, I heard he has a dedicated personal trainer and even a fisician working on him, hell he even has people preparing him special food.
STO forumite 3: Yes I agree, its also the equipment, did you not notice his mk XIV gold running shoes.
Give him my boots and see if he can repeat it.
Oh and I almost forgot, his green shorts are clearly overpowered and unbalanced.
Did Usain Bolt run the 100 metres in record time just so that people stroke his "sportpeen"?
Does it really matter if an athlete can run 100m in 9.58 or 15 secs? Of course not! but im sure the athete found a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment by doing it and also did countless people that watched it.
These DPS runs are just like a sport they serve no real important purpose other than entertainment.
Ryan and other DPSers find their enjoyment in trying to find ways to make the game as difficult as possible, being it by beating DPS records, doing solo runs of team content or 2 manning No Win Scenario.
They spend countless hours testing equipment, doing math trying to reverse engineer the equations of the various game mechanics.
And then putting it all in practice in these runs.
Contrary to what many people on these forums seem to think, just like with the athlete example it is not trivial to achieve these dps numbers.
There is much planning going on, he did not use his powers randomly, he went in with is run already preplanned in order to have the most uptime on his buffs during the parts of the mission were they are most important.
Its not obvious to most of us that watch the videos the amount of skill involved, in positioning, in timing and sequence of power activations.
If you take close attention to his videos, you see that he just doesn't randomly mash the space bar. He activates his powers in determined sequences and only when needed, always taking care to only activate them when is weapons finished their activation cycles.
Little details that make all the difference in the end.
Those are the things that I really appreciate watching in this kind of videos, i really enjoy trying to figure out what he is doing at any giving time, there is so much we more casual player can learn doing this.
Its just like when i watch a concert I personally find as much enjoyment watching the skillfull hands of the musicians as from the music itself.
In the end what really matter is the fun we can have playing, its our precious free time after all.
If something is not fun to you and it doesn't really interferes with your enjoyment of the game what good does it do to go out of your way to devalue someone else's notion of fun?
I sure like watching this videos, and learn many things that make me a better player so I say keep them coming.
Cheers!
It's Green Envy, my dear, supergreen!
I, for one, love his vids! And, en passant, they're a great "In your face!" to those who keep saying PvE requires no skiill. :P
Umm it could mean the opposite, seeing as PvE is so easy you can do advanced difficulty in a low tier ship...
Yes. Cranking out lots of numbers in a B Title video game is the exact same thing as holding an Olympic world record.
Haha! No.
I'd say it's along the lines of what bob's saying there. What Ryan & Co. do isn't a reflection of the PvE content requiring skill...it's a challenge they created for themselves.
If it were a case that there was content that only a small part of the playerbase could tackle...then that content could be said to require skill. HSE comes to mind. The vast majority of the content in the game though? That's a different story.
But trying to point to the challenges that Ryan & Co. have created for themselves to demonstrate their skill as evidence that PvE itself requires skill...is kind of laughable, and well - misrepresenting what's going on in some attempt to make one appear better than they are while still not coming anywhere near Ryan & Co....imho.
Haha! No. It's easy because it's easy. I soloed Molten Core. This morning before breakfast. And that's exactly as relevant and exciting to its MMO as ISA is to STO.
And, as a point of fact, he didn't even try it for himself. He brought the required Recluse and three Scimitars with pets.
If you consider flying slow circles in a cruiser around things that don't move, hey okay, by that measure your correct. Good stuff!
No its not the exact same thing, but the concept is not that different either, its just a numbers game one has more spectators than the other but, in the core its just about trying to improve oneself in a very specific task that other than entertainment doesn't impact the lively wood of others.
I didnt compare him to a Gandhi, Madre Teresa or on the other side of the spectrum Alexander the Great
or Gengis Khan
I give you permission to impact ALL the lively wood everywhere!
And on another note.
And misrepresentatio is misrepresentation. Anyway you slice it.
EDIT: Gotta say I'm liking this thread though. And the other retro thread of big video challenges that was put up. It's like effing retro week in here with years old new stuff!
Yes, the magic act is truly magical on the surface. It's all about theatrics and showmanship. I'm sure there are plenty of spectators who are amazed at what they can do.
But then there are other magicians out there, or skeptics/cynics who recognize the magic act for what it is, an illusion dressed up in showmanship and theatrics.
The illusion is not so impressive when you know how the trick is performed. There are people in this thread who know how the magic trick is performed, and aren't impressed.
Whoa!? Was that some strange dig at me?! Well, then let me just point you to the second paragraph of this out there.
Now, with that out of the way, your notion that PvE requires no skill is rather, erm, limited. Because there's doing something, and doing it right. It's like saying every noob can play chess, if by that you mean they only know the moves; but if you want to be the top player, you'll need considerable skill.
The challenge RyanSTO et al. have set for themselves is not to just do isa, but do it with maximal efficiency (aka, getting the most DPS out if it). The former everyone can do; the latter, not so much.
That's pretty much it. It's cute once. It could even be cute each time.
It stops being cute when the magician seems convinced it's real. Clap if you believe!
Nah, I don't want to give up on the OZ thing. Make more room behind that curtain dammit!
But that ain't hating. Hating is bad. We just poking fun at something that MUST have been published with a comic intent. Right?:D
Why, fellow magicians, I eagerly await your vids performing the same hopelessly transparent act! :P If not, I'll leave you with the words of Morpheus: "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."
Lol, you are correct, I just looked lively wood in the dictionary, and I'm laughing my TRIBBLE off, sorry english is not my main language,
what I meant to say is that both of them are tasks that dont matter to lives of people outside of entertainment. The world would be exactly the same if an athlete runs 100m in 9 or 10 secs.
Hehe they are the wizards of sto after all
Yes I can know how the magician does the trick but that doesn't mean that I have the acting skill or even the dexterity to replicate the trick
Zactly!