No, really, I thought you were going to visit family or something for a few weeks. Or do you now need a vacation from the family? lol
Frankly, that's why I play sometimes...
Hehehe Yes I know i'm never on here, this is my first post! Isn't it exciting!? I am back from my vaycay, (and yes you are right, I need another vacation).
Shouldn't this be the standard measure of DPS? I've never understood why everyone uses premade teams with set agendas inside a specific instance (ISA) as the basis for what damage their ships can put out.
First, it's team based and accounts for piloting ability.
The only time anyone really cares about somebody's DPS is when they're on the same team.
Nobody cares about your DPS when you're solo. Your solo DPS is epeen, a completely meaningless number with no relevance.
You could do 500k DPS solo but only do 500 DPS when you're in a team because you're actually a terrible pilot and everybody else kills everything before you can bring your "500k DPS" to bear.
Second, it is consistent.
It is "predictable", and only requires you to follow a script. Everything is the same aside from your team, and we can account for that variance through repetition. With a similar team, you're going to see less than a 5% Standard Deviation in your results.
What this results in is a useful measure of relative performance that can be used to accurately predict your teammates' competence. (Frankly, I suspect that if we didn't have to rely on a team for endgame content, 90% of the DPS league wouldn't be there.) Someone who does 50k in ISA isn't going to do 50k in HSE, but he's probably going to be a hell of a lot more useful in in HSE than someone who does 10k in ISA.
So no, the standard isn't solo, nor is it how much damage your ship does when you're on target - it's not literally just "Damage Per Second", it's "damage per encounter when in a team".
Not sure why people are flaming this, it's quite obvious that the ship build is dependant on a good team, if for nothing else to take the heat off of the NX-01... those low tier ships can't take much lol.
Forget about dps, 5+ mil total damage in a low tier ship is impressive.
This actually reminds me of when I did a (Pre-DR) ISE Pug in a Connie... very fun.
Mind you, I didn't set any DPS records, but I did hold my own, hehe. :P
The challenge RyanSTO et al. have set for themselves is not to just do isa, but do it with maximal efficiency (aka, getting the most DPS out if it). The former everyone can do; the latter, not so much.
It is a personal challenge they have created. It requires skill to do what they're doing. That's not the standard PvE in the game, right? Which doesn't require that kind of skill, does it?
Trying to point to the personal challenges that some players out there create for themselves as an example of the challenge provided by PvE itself...is a disservice to those players that have had to create those challenges for themselves while ignoring the state of the content.
Successfully completing an ISA...does not require much skill. It doesn't require much of anything. Ryan going through and soloing ISA? Sure, that's going to require some skill. Ryan soloing ISA is a personal challenge...it's not the challenge ISA itself offers.
Somebody goes "lol, ISA doesn't require any skill"...pointing out something like Ryan doing an awesome job of soloing it...well, that's not actually countering the initial complaint is it?
Tom: These oranges are rotten.
Jerry: This apple is good.
Get it? Pointing to the apple being good doesn't change that the oranges are rotten.
It's as much a distraction as in the other thread...pointing to who is saying things while trying to ignore what is being said.
* * * * *
Basically, Ryan & Co.'s awesomesauce...is Ryan & Co.'s awesomesauce...there's no transference of awesomesauceness...and trying to make it look like there is...isn't very awesomesaucetastic to do.
Hehehe Yes I know i'm never on here, this is my first post! Isn't it exciting!? I am back from my vaycay, (and yes you are right, I need another vacation).
Well, welcome back. Despite the reservations I expressed earlier in the P1 thread Nagus posted, (I felt a bit trolled by Elijah last week) I listened to the podcast today, and I know I'm not the only one who missed your presence over the past couple shows. Are you back "on" for the next one?
(I even missed Elijah today, but don't tell him...)
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
It is a personal challenge they have created. It requires skill to do what they're doing. That's not the standard PvE in the game, right? Which doesn't require that kind of skill, does it?
Trying to point to the personal challenges that some players out there create for themselves as an example of the challenge provided by PvE itself...is a disservice to those players that have had to create those challenges for themselves while ignoring the state of the content.
Successfully completing an ISA...does not require much skill. It doesn't require much of anything. Ryan going through and soloing ISA? Sure, that's going to require some skill. Ryan soloing ISA is a personal challenge...it's not the challenge ISA itself offers.
Says you. Seriously, if you want to maintain that the only 'documented' challenge is the completion of the mission, then sure, PvE can be said to be easy. For others, the challenge is doing it right. And then PvE is a lot harder. And the latter isn't suddenly 'a personal challenge', any more than graduating with an A average is more of a personal choice than just coasting thru college with a D average. Both are equal personal choices: the latter is about just completing it, the former about completing it par excellence.
Says you. Seriously, if you want to maintain that the only 'documented' challenge is the completion of the mission, then sure, PvE can be said to be easy. For others, the challenge is doing it right. And then PvE is a lot harder. And the latter isn't suddenly 'a personal challenge', any more than graduating with an A average is more of a personal choice than just coasting thru college with a D average. Both are equal personal choices: the latter is about just completing it, the former about completing it par excellence.
Another fine example of completely ignoring what was said to try to make it about something else...as if that something else wasn't already said...while also adding in things that were not said. It's how typical discussions go with you. /shrug
It's a simple thread.
Ryan & Co. did something awesome.
Kudos, Ryan & Co. Awesome job.
Why are you trying to ride their coattails like anything they do is in any way the slightest reflection on anything you're doing? It's as bad as the folks, if not worse, that are poo-pooing over what was done....meh.
So no, the standard isn't solo, nor is it how much damage your ship does when you're on target - it's not literally just "Damage Per Second", it's "damage per encounter when in a team".
I think this means the DPS League should be renamed to the DPEWIAT League.
Why are you trying to ride their coattails like anything they do is in any way the slightest reflection on anything you're doing?
Why do you keep making this dishonest claim?! Again (talk about wilfully ignoring stuff), I point others to the second paragraph of this, where only yesterday I specifically disavowed any and all alleged claims to DPS awesomeness.
More to the point, why does it annoy you so that I respect them?! And why are you, and others, frantically trying to make them out to be just magicians using a cheap trick? Because, from my perspective, all y'all are looking mighty petty in the process.
More to the point, why does it annoy you so that I respect them?! And why are you, and others, frantically trying to make them out to be just magicians using a cheap trick? Because, from my perspective, all y'all are looking mighty petty in the process.
So wait...from a snipped quote where you snipped where I said it was a simple thread, Ryan & Co. did something awesome and should receive kudos for that...and what you were doing was as bad as the folks poo-pooing what was done...you post that as your reply?
So wait...from a snipped quote where you snipped where I said it was a simple thread, Ryan & Co. did something awesome and should receive kudos for that...and what you were doing was as bad as the folks poo-pooing what was done...you post that as your reply?
Seriously, lolwut?
* * * * *
This is what you said in reply to cookie...
...you're just petty and antagonistic...and tainting what they do by trying to make them into something you want them to be.
* * * * *
Again...simple thread.
"Kudos, Ryan & Co...awesome job!"
It doesn't need your TRIBBLE added.
Actually, I've started reporting your posts here. You're constantly trying to pick fights, and you're getting meaner each round. It needs to stop.
All bets on Virus! No one can beat zeh math and well set up points.
All hail Virus!:P
But as much as I abhor PvE, this was slightly amusing. Now, if only npc's had better AI, then I'd be interested. But al'round, a good example that PvE can be spiced up.
But as much as I abhor PvE, this was slightly amusing. Now, if only npc's had better AI, then I'd be interested. But al'round, a good example that PvE can be spiced up.
Heh, with a lot of the things - it gets into creating those challenges for oneself. Thissler find kidnapped me and dragged me screaming along into an ISA and a THSN...BoP Power! There's some definite potential for finding some fun there...and that's what it's all about in the end, yeah? Having some fun...
Those guys aren't doing the vids they do cause anybody's got a gun to their head...they're having fun - sharing the fun they're having, yeah?
It's kind of a little positive thing, imho, with all the negative that's going around. Finding some fun...different folks are finding it in different ways. Kudos to those finding the fun and having a blast, yeah?
Those guys aren't doing the vids they do cause anybody's got a gun to their head...they're having fun - sharing the fun they're having, yeah?
It's kind of a little positive thing, imho, with all the negative that's going around. Finding some fun...different folks are finding it in different ways. Kudos to those finding the fun and having a blast, yeah?
It's kind of a little positive thing, imho, with all the negative that's going around. Finding some fun...different folks are finding it in different ways. Kudos to those finding the fun and having a blast, yeah?
NO! I'm must rage at them for getting a higher damage per second than me in my PvP ships! They are rubbing their better PvE skills in my face! I demand them to stop!! :P
They are the reason for game imbalance too just btw...
I think this means the DPS League should be renamed to the DPEWIAT League.
Considering that ISA is that whole team and consistency thing, we could just say "DPS in ISA". So "ISA-DPS"?
Usually when I'm talking to someone who doesn't know what "DPS" refers to when we say things like "10k DPS build", I'll actually say "DPS in ISA". I recall someone who kept parsing patrols and getting frustrated that his ship was inconsistent and under-performing, not even breaking 7k. When he parsed ISA in a PUG he was already at ~15k. :P
NO! I'm must rage at them for getting a higher damage per second than me in my PvP ships! They are rubbing their better PvE skills in my face! I demand them to stop!! :P
They are the reason for game imbalance too just btw...
The video. Look, STO is a game, it is supposed to be played, not watched. If I want to watch I'll take a movie, video, episode, anything but a play session of gamers. Show this video to a person that doesn't game, would he/she, could he/she, be entertained? I doubt.
Has it eductional value. This is an opinion of course, but I say no. If I would want to do, what they do, I need foremost a mission walkthrough, with tactics (STOwiki) and a build concept (STOacademy).
Another thing. APB stacking. It is mentioned a couple of times here. I am not an expert when it comes to game mechanics, so I can be wrong. APB was also mentioned when the lag issues were adressed. I see a nerf coming.
Another thing. APB stacking. It is mentioned a couple of times here. I am not an expert when it comes to game mechanics, so I can be wrong. APB was also mentioned when the lag issues were adressed. I see a nerf coming.
wonder what they are gettin on the holodeck nowadays?.
Since its a rubberbanding lagfest of clicking failure, bet thats shaved a good 25 to 50k off them. lol
Could never understand the whole circle je*k fest that the DPS channel seems to cause with some. PHWOOOAAARRRRRRRRR LOOK AT THAT, AN EXTRA 10K!!!!!!!... on top of our joint 80 to 100k machines.........
But each to their own.
My lass nearly slapped me when i said lets do a run and put ourselves on that table thing they have.. lol.
I'm just wondering what sort of figures they would have got without the Scimies and Recluse?
I did an ISA with some people in a 'semi' PUG, it was a team of four, three of us in NX's and I was in a BoP the fifth member was a random PUG - to that person who showed up in a Defiant (C-store version) sorry for the nasty surprise! - we still managed to pull DPS(ISA) figures in the mid 3k range (one NX had better figures than the Defiant!).
At the end of the day does the video show the the true potential of that ship? Yes it does. Does the video show what everyone will get out of it? No it doesn't. Does it show what he will get out of it in everything he uses it for? No it doesn't, ISA is used because of it's consistancy. It does show what can be done by teamwork, communication and an ability to ask "What can be done in a situation with a set piece of equipment?" or "What is the most I can get out of this ship/console?"
Also, I don't understand some of the hate in here, this isn't hurting anyone. I don't get it...
I've been here since the game started, and I've seen them come and go. They all think they're right. They all think they are entitled to get what they want when they want it and you better watch out or they'll run you over.
It's like the worst gathering of Trek fans ever. The most demonic group on earth lives in this forum. They love stroking each other's egos...and I sometimes wonder if they even play the game at all. It's as if they went to college and earned a degree in forum posting and so they only post their hate here and the game is just collateral damage.
The devs don't even read the forums anymore it has gotten so bad they have to post on other social media outlets just to avoid the idiots that have entrenched themselves here. Too bad really. Little to they understand that it is themselves that make the game into what they don't like. There is no pleasing them.
Someone posted "If this game deposited twenty dollar bills every hour, the posters on these forums would complain that the serial numbers on the bills were out of sequence".
Run. As Fast As You Can. Or just keep poking holes in them like I do. I don't care what any of them think.
Comments
Hey, Cookie. What are you doing here?
No, really, I thought you were going to visit family or something for a few weeks. Or do you now need a vacation from the family? lol
Frankly, that's why I play sometimes...
Some of us don't feel the desire to showboat our beamboats or cannonboats.
If I'm going to be despised by people on the forums, I want to be despised for entirely different reasons than being a braggart over my deeps.
Personally, if that's what people want to do, more power to them. But they shouldn't expect their illusion to work on everybody.
Just because Kim Kardashian has a lot more fame and fortune and twitter followers than I do doesn't mean that I'm jealous of her.
Hehehe Yes I know i'm never on here, this is my first post! Isn't it exciting!? I am back from my vaycay, (and yes you are right, I need another vacation).
First, it's team based and accounts for piloting ability.
The only time anyone really cares about somebody's DPS is when they're on the same team.
Nobody cares about your DPS when you're solo. Your solo DPS is epeen, a completely meaningless number with no relevance.
You could do 500k DPS solo but only do 500 DPS when you're in a team because you're actually a terrible pilot and everybody else kills everything before you can bring your "500k DPS" to bear.
Second, it is consistent.
It is "predictable", and only requires you to follow a script. Everything is the same aside from your team, and we can account for that variance through repetition. With a similar team, you're going to see less than a 5% Standard Deviation in your results.
What this results in is a useful measure of relative performance that can be used to accurately predict your teammates' competence. (Frankly, I suspect that if we didn't have to rely on a team for endgame content, 90% of the DPS league wouldn't be there.) Someone who does 50k in ISA isn't going to do 50k in HSE, but he's probably going to be a hell of a lot more useful in in HSE than someone who does 10k in ISA.
So no, the standard isn't solo, nor is it how much damage your ship does when you're on target - it's not literally just "Damage Per Second", it's "damage per encounter when in a team".
Not sure why people are flaming this, it's quite obvious that the ship build is dependant on a good team, if for nothing else to take the heat off of the NX-01... those low tier ships can't take much lol.
Forget about dps, 5+ mil total damage in a low tier ship is impressive.
This actually reminds me of when I did a (Pre-DR) ISE Pug in a Connie... very fun.
Mind you, I didn't set any DPS records, but I did hold my own, hehe. :P
It is a personal challenge they have created. It requires skill to do what they're doing. That's not the standard PvE in the game, right? Which doesn't require that kind of skill, does it?
Trying to point to the personal challenges that some players out there create for themselves as an example of the challenge provided by PvE itself...is a disservice to those players that have had to create those challenges for themselves while ignoring the state of the content.
Successfully completing an ISA...does not require much skill. It doesn't require much of anything. Ryan going through and soloing ISA? Sure, that's going to require some skill. Ryan soloing ISA is a personal challenge...it's not the challenge ISA itself offers.
Somebody goes "lol, ISA doesn't require any skill"...pointing out something like Ryan doing an awesome job of soloing it...well, that's not actually countering the initial complaint is it?
Tom: These oranges are rotten.
Jerry: This apple is good.
Get it? Pointing to the apple being good doesn't change that the oranges are rotten.
It's as much a distraction as in the other thread...pointing to who is saying things while trying to ignore what is being said.
* * * * *
Basically, Ryan & Co.'s awesomesauce...is Ryan & Co.'s awesomesauce...there's no transference of awesomesauceness...and trying to make it look like there is...isn't very awesomesaucetastic to do.
Well, welcome back. Despite the reservations I expressed earlier in the P1 thread Nagus posted, (I felt a bit trolled by Elijah last week) I listened to the podcast today, and I know I'm not the only one who missed your presence over the past couple shows. Are you back "on" for the next one?
(I even missed Elijah today, but don't tell him...)
Says you. Seriously, if you want to maintain that the only 'documented' challenge is the completion of the mission, then sure, PvE can be said to be easy. For others, the challenge is doing it right. And then PvE is a lot harder. And the latter isn't suddenly 'a personal challenge', any more than graduating with an A average is more of a personal choice than just coasting thru college with a D average. Both are equal personal choices: the latter is about just completing it, the former about completing it par excellence.
Another fine example of completely ignoring what was said to try to make it about something else...as if that something else wasn't already said...while also adding in things that were not said. It's how typical discussions go with you. /shrug
It's a simple thread.
Ryan & Co. did something awesome.
Kudos, Ryan & Co. Awesome job.
Why are you trying to ride their coattails like anything they do is in any way the slightest reflection on anything you're doing? It's as bad as the folks, if not worse, that are poo-pooing over what was done....meh.
I think this means the DPS League should be renamed to the DPEWIAT League.
Why do you keep making this dishonest claim?! Again (talk about wilfully ignoring stuff), I point others to the second paragraph of this, where only yesterday I specifically disavowed any and all alleged claims to DPS awesomeness.
More to the point, why does it annoy you so that I respect them?! And why are you, and others, frantically trying to make them out to be just magicians using a cheap trick? Because, from my perspective, all y'all are looking mighty petty in the process.
So wait...from a snipped quote where you snipped where I said it was a simple thread, Ryan & Co. did something awesome and should receive kudos for that...and what you were doing was as bad as the folks poo-pooing what was done...you post that as your reply?
Seriously, lolwut?
* * * * *
This is what you said in reply to cookie...
...you're just petty and antagonistic...and tainting what they do by trying to make them into something you want them to be.
* * * * *
Again...simple thread.
"Kudos, Ryan & Co...awesome job!"
It doesn't need your TRIBBLE added.
Actually, I've started reporting your posts here. You're constantly trying to pick fights, and you're getting meaner each round. It needs to stop.
Thank you.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
All bets on Virus! No one can beat zeh math and well set up points.
All hail Virus!:P
But as much as I abhor PvE, this was slightly amusing. Now, if only npc's had better AI, then I'd be interested. But al'round, a good example that PvE can be spiced up.
Heh, with a lot of the things - it gets into creating those challenges for oneself. Thissler find kidnapped me and dragged me screaming along into an ISA and a THSN...BoP Power! There's some definite potential for finding some fun there...and that's what it's all about in the end, yeah? Having some fun...
Those guys aren't doing the vids they do cause anybody's got a gun to their head...they're having fun - sharing the fun they're having, yeah?
It's kind of a little positive thing, imho, with all the negative that's going around. Finding some fun...different folks are finding it in different ways. Kudos to those finding the fun and having a blast, yeah?
Exactly! I thought so too!
NO! I'm must rage at them for getting a higher damage per second than me in my PvP ships! They are rubbing their better PvE skills in my face! I demand them to stop!! :P
They are the reason for game imbalance too just btw...
Considering that ISA is that whole team and consistency thing, we could just say "DPS in ISA". So "ISA-DPS"?
Usually when I'm talking to someone who doesn't know what "DPS" refers to when we say things like "10k DPS build", I'll actually say "DPS in ISA". I recall someone who kept parsing patrols and getting frustrated that his ship was inconsistent and under-performing, not even breaking 7k. When he parsed ISA in a PUG he was already at ~15k. :P
/fake-popcorn
"Go on....."
|=)
PS. Glad to see Ryan join the Kinetic Kommunity.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Has it eductional value. This is an opinion of course, but I say no. If I would want to do, what they do, I need foremost a mission walkthrough, with tactics (STOwiki) and a build concept (STOacademy).
Another thing. APB stacking. It is mentioned a couple of times here. I am not an expert when it comes to game mechanics, so I can be wrong. APB was also mentioned when the lag issues were adressed. I see a nerf coming.
You should look at the baseDPS
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
Since its a rubberbanding lagfest of clicking failure, bet thats shaved a good 25 to 50k off them. lol
Could never understand the whole circle je*k fest that the DPS channel seems to cause with some. PHWOOOAAARRRRRRRRR LOOK AT THAT, AN EXTRA 10K!!!!!!!... on top of our joint 80 to 100k machines.........
But each to their own.
My lass nearly slapped me when i said lets do a run and put ourselves on that table thing they have.. lol.
I did an ISA with some people in a 'semi' PUG, it was a team of four, three of us in NX's and I was in a BoP the fifth member was a random PUG - to that person who showed up in a Defiant (C-store version) sorry for the nasty surprise! - we still managed to pull DPS(ISA) figures in the mid 3k range (one NX had better figures than the Defiant!).
At the end of the day does the video show the the true potential of that ship? Yes it does. Does the video show what everyone will get out of it? No it doesn't. Does it show what he will get out of it in everything he uses it for? No it doesn't, ISA is used because of it's consistancy. It does show what can be done by teamwork, communication and an ability to ask "What can be done in a situation with a set piece of equipment?" or "What is the most I can get out of this ship/console?"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I was under the impression, that he is doing it naked and, with a bat'leth!!!
:rolleyes:
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
He could always just talk to the borg in IS.
After hearing that guy drone on in his mono tone voice in his youtube videos, i wanted to kill myself after 3 mins.
Tone of voice != quality of knowledge presented. With that said, everyone does have a right to their opinion and learning style.
#justsaying
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I've been here since the game started, and I've seen them come and go. They all think they're right. They all think they are entitled to get what they want when they want it and you better watch out or they'll run you over.
It's like the worst gathering of Trek fans ever. The most demonic group on earth lives in this forum. They love stroking each other's egos...and I sometimes wonder if they even play the game at all. It's as if they went to college and earned a degree in forum posting and so they only post their hate here and the game is just collateral damage.
The devs don't even read the forums anymore it has gotten so bad they have to post on other social media outlets just to avoid the idiots that have entrenched themselves here. Too bad really. Little to they understand that it is themselves that make the game into what they don't like. There is no pleasing them.
Someone posted "If this game deposited twenty dollar bills every hour, the posters on these forums would complain that the serial numbers on the bills were out of sequence".
Run. As Fast As You Can. Or just keep poking holes in them like I do. I don't care what any of them think.