edit2: Does kind of make me sad, though, lol...cause that run took my personal best from 22k to 25k. It was just a quick throw together build where I didn't expect much. The 22k before that...was a damage in testing run. If I actually try to DPS...I can't. /facepalm
I also didn't expect an increase of my DPS. That build on my JHDC is my PUG build (i have rather high resistances on that build and borg 2 set + dyson shield for some extra tankiness). Now i need to figure out why i can get to 40k in a PUG with my PUG build and somehow can't get my FPER above 30-35k DPS despite it being build for a lot more DPS. The increased lag in DPS channel runs certainly plays a role but i fear the pilot of the ship being too slow for high DPS runs is the bigger problem.
Haha just make Particle Manipulator Science only, Beam Barrage Tac only and Give Your All Engineer only. Problem solved. No need to nerf PG-based skills.
Or maybe give all sci captains a buff to sci abilities. Maybe a 20% buff would be enough. Make the same for engineers and make it PvE only to not kill the dead horse of PvP even further. But since they can't figure out how to make powers work different in PvE and PvP that is only wishful thinking anyway.
Haha just make Particle Manipulator Science only, Beam Barrage Tac only and Give Your All Engineer only. Problem solved. No need to nerf PG-based skills.
Sorry, No... just no.
Forcing people into specific ship classes based on their Career would be just downright stupid.
Or maybe give all sci captains a buff to sci abilities. Maybe a 20% buff would be enough. Make the same for engineers and make it PvE only to not kill the dead horse of PvP even further. But since they can't figure out how to make powers work different in PvE and PvP that is only wishful thinking anyway.
With the way they handle Flanking for PvE/PvP...that they have PvP Mods...there's something else, no?...think it's pretty clear they can do it - just that mixed case of don't want to/don't have time to do it.
I also didn't expect an increase of my DPS. That build on my JHDC is my PUG build (i have rather high resistances on that build and borg 2 set + dyson shield for some extra tankiness). Now i need to figure out why i can get to 40k in a PUG with my PUG build and somehow can't get my FPER above 30-35k DPS despite it being build for a lot more DPS. The increased lag in DPS channel runs certainly plays a role but i fear the pilot of the ship being too slow for high DPS runs is the bigger problem.
It was probably the smoothest ISA run I've had in months. I keep meaning to ask Cryptic if they'll do a T6 BoP with side hardpoints for DHCs if they're going to keep having me rubberbanding while broadside.
So what's a Sci Partigens build running these days anyway?
Solanae Deflector
[AMP] Core? Obelisk Core for the 135 Aux? Solanae Core for 130 Aux w/ [AMP]?
Iconian Engines and Shields? Assimilated? Hrmm, no clue there - need more caffeine.
So what's a Sci Partigens build running these days anyway?
Solanae Deflector
[AMP] Core? Obelisk Core for the 135 Aux? Solanae Core for 130 Aux w/ [AMP]?
Iconian Engines and Shields? Assimilated? Hrmm, no clue there - need more caffeine.
Not to mention that it improves beam weapon accuracy too.
Which only works one third of the time if you use BFAW (in the time you cant use BFAW to be exact). Though it works with SS, the amount of additional CrtH/D you gain is neglectible compared to what SS already gives.
Of all the listed consoles, it is the first thats jettisoned when the console slots are too limited.
Which only works one third of the time if you use BFAW (in the time you cant use BFAW to be exact). Though it works with SS, the amount of additional CrtH/D you gain is neglectible compared to what SS already gives.
Of all the listed consoles, it is the first thats jettisoned when the console slots are too limited.
you're talking about acc overflow.... if the acc portion doesn't work with FAW then that's must be a bug.
Ship 4 : Vesta - Radiation torps, 2x mk12 fleet prtg consoles, 2x mk12 regular prtg consoles - mk12 crafted particle console (no prtg mod) - various rep/set consoles with exotic or prtg bonus - Dyson deflector mk12 total prtg ~300 (plus particle manipulator) : 36k DPS
The 3 first ships are the ones Ive put a LOT of upgrades into, while the Vesta have next to no upgrades invested, in essence its cobbled together.. The Vesta easily comes close to matching the ships Ive invested the majority of my time and upgrades into..
In PvP its even worse.. Its almost invulnerable because the ships that are able to tear Down the defenses are very reluctant to blow themselves up on a PMd 300 prtg FBP3. (Theres a reason 3-4 outta 5 ships in a PvP match are science ships)
I agree with the OP, Science ships are a Little to easy to build, and does a Little too much DPS, compared to the time/funds invested into it.. Atleast on a Tactical captain.. I admit I only play Tac, so it might not be the case with Sci or Eng captains.. Maybe the solution is to remove AP Alphas effect on Science powers, as someone suggested.
Well your first build is a cannon build which cannons obviously aren't going to top beams...your second build is a beam build which does the top dps...and the last 2 both have hangars...plus the Vesta is still arguably one of the best if not thee best Sci ships in the game.
Yeah there may be a reason there are a lot of Sci ships in PvP...because FBP is the only thing that can really counter a vaper...because if you aren't a Sci ship you're probably a vaper...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
After reading all posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that the majority does not like the idea that particle gen should be nerfed, which those that do are a minroty. Obviously, we now know what is going to happen. The minority will win this as they have other battles in this beautiful forum.
We're all dooooOOooOooooOOoOoomed! That is unless we switch our tone and use reverse psychology so you-know-who doesn't make this change happen.
STO forum term definitions for newbies:Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill.Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business.Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
Let me start by saying I've been playing consistently since launch (several thousand active hours) and I'm experienced with all different sorts of ships and builds with all three captain careers.
Lately I've been flying escort and cruiser, both tac and eng combos, and doing pretty well DPS-wise with enough survivability to rarely die - even at higher difficulty settings (a whole 'nother can of worms). Just for funsies, I outfitted my healing sci ship with a reasonably partgen-buffed exotic damage build. It was really easy to stack exotic damage because there's a ton of gear modified by particle generators now. I had done this before but after using other ship and build combinations recently, the transition to partgen DPS was more noticeable than in the past.
It was amazing how fast everything started MELTING! I wasn't even that heavily invested into partgens and was easily destroying large groups of enemies like they were made of tissue paper while still being able to effectively crowd control them.
It's great to see sci ships finally doing damage because they were so weak for so long...but this was absolutely ridiculous. It made me realize that the "powers that be" went WAY overboard with exotic damage. It's simply too much. Not saying that partgen-influenced builds should be nerfed into the ground, but with how effective they are compared to many other build combinations they could be toned down and still be powerful.
There was mention of applying a curve to partgen stacking (distinct from straight diminishing returns) so that past a certain amount they would become less effective per skill point. Seeing as the particle manipulator adjustment didn't make much difference in damage, there should be an adjustment to the skill point modifiers themselves.
TL;DR :
Exotic damage builds finally being viable is welcome and refreshing, but it's gotten to the point where they're too powerful relative to other options. Particle Generator effectiveness and/or stacking should be toned down to make room for more variety.
I won't fuel any "Forum PvP" by posting responses. Talk amongst yourselves. Have a nice day! :cool:
For us science type players, You have doomed us all. I feel the cold hands of death tightning around my neck as I speak. Well it was fun while it lasted, a whole month and a half.
After reading all posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that the majority does not like the idea that particle gen should be nerfed, which those that do are a minroty. Obviously, we now know what is going to happen. The minority will win this as they have other battles in this beautiful forum.
We're all dooooOOooOooooOOoOoomed! That is unless we switch our tone and use reverse psychology so you-know-who doesn't make this change happen.
LOL, not necessarily. If minor groups of players drove the development of this game, that means PVP would get lots of attention and expansion and the KDF and Romulans would be overflowing with ship choices and tons of faction-specific content!
But looking at the game: That isn't so! :cool:
Hold on! I got another one! The recent nerf to 12hr+ DOFFing missions? Surely that was the fault of PVPers, the Klingons, and/or the Romulans! Those sneaky Romulans...
Particle Gen builds may be a little OP but they do not need nerfed. Once you do that they become TRIBBLE again and nobody wants to play them. What needs to happens is maybe gear with prtG resistance on it or consoles. I'm not that good at balancing classes but I do know from STO's nerfing history and it never ends pretty. Most of the time, all three classes get the nerf bat took to them. Then its back to square one and months of unbalanced gameplay.
Are partgens better? Yes. They still can't get close to a high dps tac build. Check dps charts....
My biggest beef is that a tac can still out science a science career (dps wise). The science specific trait that buffs exotic helps but doesn't beat stacked alpha, fire on my mark.....
Engines could use a dps skill, how about power buff acting like override safeties without a down side....
I think that only Science characters should have been able to get the Particle Manipulators trait and then have a Tac and Engineering traits specific for them. That would have hellped some.
LOL, not necessarily. If minor groups of players drove the development of this game, that means PVP would get lots of attention and expansion and the KDF and Romulans would be overflowing with ship choices and tons of faction-specific content!
But looking at the game: That isn't so! :cool:
Hold on! I got another one! The recent nerf to 12hr+ DOFFing missions? Surely that was the fault of PVPers, the Klingons, and/or the Romulans! Those sneaky Romulans...
Darn! And here I thought my inside-guy was on to something big. I should've guessed it was those klingulans all along. I'm gonna need a new go-to guy.
Suppose on a more related note instead of posting random things, yeah I don't see a reason to nerf particle gen stuff. It's nice to know at least there's other things in the game that can still be enjoyed instead of just using limited methods to be useful.
STO forum term definitions for newbies:Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill.Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business.Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
what the OP realy means is tac captains in sci ships using exotic dmg. there are rarly sci captains in sci ships using partigens...and those who play that "classic" build will never do the dps like a tac. tactical captains are the better scientists nowadays. its absurd, but hey, its sto!
You don't even know how Partigen boats with R&D trait are broken in PvP.
You just don't. Partigens needs to be hit with the nerf hammer, and I do have one of those ships. Way too overpowered.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
what the OP realy means is tac captains in sci ships using exotic dmg. there are rarly sci captains in sci ships using partigens...and those who play that "classic" build will never do the dps like a tac. tactical captains are the better scientists nowadays. its absurd, but hey, its sto!
Tactical captains can squeeze more damage out of ANY build, it's not absurd it's design! Science captains aren't meant to be DPS monsters so I don't understand why your calling exotic damage 'science' because it's just another form of damage.
I just wish whiners and crybabies would just shut up about science ships... seriously.
Because according to them science ships should not be allowed to exist at all in the game.
Some people say science ships should not be about Damage, but rather crowd control and debuffing. Back in the day when STO was released science ships were DAMN GOOD at doing just that.
But guess what? People bitched and whined and moaned and cried about OP Science was and how it was unfair that science ships could debuff and crowd control the living **** out of them, so BOOM out came the nerf bat and for many many years science ships were nothing but a sad joke.
And of course when science ship finally become viable again, and are able to be competitive with escorts and cruisers in damage dealing people are crying and whining once more, about how unfair partgens are etc etc. I mean we can't have science ships actually have any teeth and be useful in a fight now can we? :rolleyes:
It never changes, like I said, these crybabies won't be happy until science ships are removed from the game. I mean god forbid there should be a different effective playstyle than spamming beams everywhere.
I just wish whiners and crybabies would just shut up about science ships... seriously.
Because according to them science ships should not be allowed to exist at all in the game.
Some people say science ships should not be about Damage, but rather crowd control and debuffing. Back in the day when STO was released science ships were DAMN GOOD at doing just that.
But guess what? People bitched and whined and moaned and cried about OP Science was and how it was unfair that science ships could debuff and crowd control the living **** out of them, so BOOM out came the nerf bat and for many many years science ships were nothing but a sad joke.
And of course when science ship finally become viable again, and are able to be competitive with escorts and cruisers in damage dealing people are crying and whining once more, about how unfair partgens are etc etc. I mean we can't have science ships actually have any teeth and be useful in a fight now can we? :rolleyes:
It never changes, like I said, these crybabies won't be happy until science ships are removed from the game. I mean god forbid there should be a different effective playstyle than spamming beams everywhere.
The issue is an overall meta issue.
Damage is well above and beyond the importance of anything else in the game.
Exotic damage offers Sci a chance to do damage, but it's awkward in that Exotic does so much more than other Sci build types but yet far less than "normal" weapons-based builds.
And while I've been playing Sci since Open Beta, I lament the total lack of skill needed with today's Sci meta. TBR is literally fire and forget, and requires no skill. GW at least requires you to pick a target that has the most potential to drag everyone else in/that's most central, but then Destabilizing Resonance Beam is just a Death Ray that melts everything in it's way. (But, of course, you can say the same thing about FAW) Also all of it just so happens to completely bypass shields.
... and that's it. Sure, you can run a drain, but you're better off with an Exotic drain. CC or shield strip? Why bother?
And yet, as said, you won't find anyone with a partigen build doing more DPS than your average BFAW build. And no-one has a problem with the latter.
BFAW in PvE: king
Partigens in PvE: lame
BFAW in PvP: lame
partigens in PvP: OP as hell
Dudes seriously, try going against a skilled PvPer on a partigen boat. Shield penetrating Kinetic damage which can easily be oneshot in case of Isocannon. At least with vapers you need timing as positioning, and not all the times you get to make it. If it doesn't work you're locked out. With partigen boats it is costant hull burning.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Dudes seriously, try going against a skilled PvPer on a partigen boat. Shield penetrating Kinetic damage which can easily be oneshot in case of Isocannon. At least with vapers you need timing as positioning, and not all the times you get to make it. If it doesn't work you're locked out. With partigen boats it is costant hull burning.
I disagree.
Partigen boats can be resisted with kinetic damage resistance and plenty of hull heals. If your an engineer that also makes things even easier.
Well built cruisers, tanks and healboats are also exceedingly difficult to take down as well. But quite frankly escorts and comparable ships are supposed to be "glass cannons", and its actually rather ridiculous that they can shield tank as well as they do in the current meta.
I have also seen extremely powerful BFAW bleed PvP boats that can pretty much melt any ship that isnt packing FBP, just by looking at it.
I disagree.
Partigen boats can be resisted with kinetic damage resistance and plenty of hull heals. If your an engineer that also makes things even easier.
Well built cruisers, tanks and healboats are also exceedingly difficult to take down as well. But quite frankly escorts and comparable ships are supposed to be "glass cannons", and its actually rather ridiculous that they can shield tank as well as they do in the current meta.
I have also seen extremely powerful BFAW bleed PvP boats that can pretty much melt any ship that isnt packing FBP, just by looking at it.
FBP bleed boats could be effective in DR, now they are just a dead weight in a team. Literally nobody runs it anymore.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
I disagree. Partigens in PvE can make a sci ship that struggles to do high DPS with weapons alone pretty effective. I've certainly dropped some pretty damned strong GWIII's on Borg spheres trying to reach the generators in ISA. Combine that with a TSIII (using torps that benefit from partigens) you have a pretty potent, and dangerous, combo.
And I hate to say it, but PvP is in the minority at this point.
Should it be unplayable because of PvE then? PvE needs better artificial intelligence and less hitpoints, that's why they keep boosting exotic damage more, and more and more and more.
Problem is that player's ship HP are way lower than those hitpoint bags named "NPCs". So while an Isocannon will never oneshot them, it can do it pretty easily against a player ship, like how it just happened to me.
[Combat (Self)] Your Isokinetic Cannon deals 85333 (25217) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Rommie.
raw was actually lower than usual.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Heh, I was that FBP guy flying around Ker'rat, at least leading up to DR launch. But then DR killed PvP. I'm amazed that anyone would even bring it up as a concern...
Seriously, where are the PvPers? All I see when I look at the queues are zeros. I guess maybe there's still some privates being made, but why balance a game around less than 100 players?
Can't say I deny that partgen builds aren't strong in PvP, but then so is subnuc. These powers are counters to the out of control damage that tacs can bring to bear.
My favorite Ker'rat memory was hearing an alpha, buffing up and turning, a BoP decloaks in front of me, I instinctively subnuc, and unload a full force CRF, destroying the BoP. It was Mini, and he was no sore loser. Back when I used my Mobius as a dogfighter lol.
When I ran my FBP Nebula, I would wreck 1v1 opponents, and have even odds on a vaper. But the HOBO drain team could still lock me down, drain my aux power and kill me in a second. There's always a counter.
But I've rambled on long enough... good times though.
Heh, I was that FBP guy flying around Ker'rat, at least leading up to DR launch. But then DR killed PvP. I'm amazed that anyone would even bring it up as a concern...
Seriously, where are the PvPers? All I see when I look at the queues are zeros. I guess maybe there's still some privates being made, but why balance a game around less than 100 players?
Can't say I deny that partgen builds aren't strong in PvP, but then so is subnuc. These powers are counters to the out of control damage that tacs can bring to bear.
My favorite Ker'rat memory was hearing an alpha, buffing up and turning, a BoP decloaks in front of me, I instinctively subnuc, and unload a full force CRF, destroying the BoP. It was Mini, and he was no sore loser. Back when I used my Mobius as a dogfighter lol.
When I ran my FBP Nebula, I would wreck 1v1 opponents, and have even odds on a vaper. But the HOBO drain team could still lock me down, drain my aux power and kill me in a second. There's always a counter.
But I've rambled on long enough... good times though.
To save PvP Cryptic needs to stop this exotic damage charade. "Who cares about PvP?" - that's a legit question. However the answer isn't "Nobody, so let's just add god mode abilities". It makes things worse.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Well your first build is a cannon build which cannons obviously aren't going to top beams...your second build is a beam build which does the top dps...and the last 2 both have hangars...plus the Vesta is still arguably one of the best if not thee best Sci ships in the game.
Yeah there may be a reason there are a lot of Sci ships in PvP...because FBP is the only thing that can really counter a vaper...because if you aren't a Sci ship you're probably a vaper...
My point was:
Build 1 traditional escort : Most weapons upgraded, all consoles upgraded, all nessecary doffs/traits
Build 2 fawhore beamer : Most weapons upgraded, all consoles upgraded, all nessecary doffs/traits
All 3 setups have substantial time and dil invested into them
Build 4 Partigenboat : mk12 omnis + mk14 torps, 2x mk12 fleet PG, 2x VR mk12 PG, 1x mk12 Exotic PG [Kin) - various mk12 exotic boosting uni and rep consoles - PG Manipulator
This is practially slapped together with stock gear (except for the torps).
Soooo.. Does it compute that the build with the least time and dil invested into it, matches the Epic builds in PvE, and outclasses them by far in PvP?
Like I said, it might be related to me exclusively flying a Tactical Captain... It could just be the Tac captains abilities and have too high an effect on PG powers...
Comments
I also didn't expect an increase of my DPS. That build on my JHDC is my PUG build (i have rather high resistances on that build and borg 2 set + dyson shield for some extra tankiness). Now i need to figure out why i can get to 40k in a PUG with my PUG build and somehow can't get my FPER above 30-35k DPS despite it being build for a lot more DPS. The increased lag in DPS channel runs certainly plays a role but i fear the pilot of the ship being too slow for high DPS runs is the bigger problem.
Or maybe give all sci captains a buff to sci abilities. Maybe a 20% buff would be enough. Make the same for engineers and make it PvE only to not kill the dead horse of PvP even further. But since they can't figure out how to make powers work different in PvE and PvP that is only wishful thinking anyway.
Sorry, No... just no.
Forcing people into specific ship classes based on their Career would be just downright stupid.
With the way they handle Flanking for PvE/PvP...that they have PvP Mods...there's something else, no?...think it's pretty clear they can do it - just that mixed case of don't want to/don't have time to do it.
It was probably the smoothest ISA run I've had in months. I keep meaning to ask Cryptic if they'll do a T6 BoP with side hardpoints for DHCs if they're going to keep having me rubberbanding while broadside.
Solanae Deflector
[AMP] Core? Obelisk Core for the 135 Aux? Solanae Core for 130 Aux w/ [AMP]?
Iconian Engines and Shields? Assimilated? Hrmm, no clue there - need more caffeine.
4x G14 Rom Partigens w/ [Pla]
C-RCS w/ Partigens
Exciter w/ Partigens
Nukara Console
Constrictor
Bioneural Infusion
Particle Manipulator
Inspirational Leader
Conservation of Energy
Feedback Loop
Astrophysicist
Pedal to the Metal
Emitter Synergy
Reciprocity
All Hands on Deck
Precision
Advanced Targeting Systems
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense
Particle Generator Amplifier
1-2 SROs
Diplo Naus Pirate
Hierarchy Efficient/Pirate
Couple DCEs
WCE Cleanse
Reverse TBR
GW Aftershock
Chance to collect additional particle trace...joking...no idea.
I'm going to sleep...
Pretty much, except the nukara console, that's not very useful really.
Which only works one third of the time if you use BFAW (in the time you cant use BFAW to be exact). Though it works with SS, the amount of additional CrtH/D you gain is neglectible compared to what SS already gives.
Of all the listed consoles, it is the first thats jettisoned when the console slots are too limited.
you're talking about acc overflow.... if the acc portion doesn't work with FAW then that's must be a bug.
Well your first build is a cannon build which cannons obviously aren't going to top beams...your second build is a beam build which does the top dps...and the last 2 both have hangars...plus the Vesta is still arguably one of the best if not thee best Sci ships in the game.
Yeah there may be a reason there are a lot of Sci ships in PvP...because FBP is the only thing that can really counter a vaper...because if you aren't a Sci ship you're probably a vaper...
We're all dooooOOooOooooOOoOoomed! That is unless we switch our tone and use reverse psychology so you-know-who doesn't make this change happen.
For us science type players, You have doomed us all. I feel the cold hands of death tightning around my neck as I speak. Well it was fun while it lasted, a whole month and a half.
LOL, not necessarily. If minor groups of players drove the development of this game, that means PVP would get lots of attention and expansion and the KDF and Romulans would be overflowing with ship choices and tons of faction-specific content!
But looking at the game: That isn't so! :cool:
Hold on! I got another one! The recent nerf to 12hr+ DOFFing missions? Surely that was the fault of PVPers, the Klingons, and/or the Romulans! Those sneaky Romulans...
I think that only Science characters should have been able to get the Particle Manipulators trait and then have a Tac and Engineering traits specific for them. That would have hellped some.
Darn! And here I thought my inside-guy was on to something big. I should've guessed it was those klingulans all along. I'm gonna need a new go-to guy.
Suppose on a more related note instead of posting random things, yeah I don't see a reason to nerf particle gen stuff. It's nice to know at least there's other things in the game that can still be enjoyed instead of just using limited methods to be useful.
You just don't. Partigens needs to be hit with the nerf hammer, and I do have one of those ships. Way too overpowered.
BFAW boats and Vapers also need to be hit with the nerf hammer. :rolleyes:
Partigen boats are ONLY even remotely overpowered if flown by a tac exclusively.
Hell absolutely everything is OP when flown by a tac.
Tactical captains can squeeze more damage out of ANY build, it's not absurd it's design! Science captains aren't meant to be DPS monsters so I don't understand why your calling exotic damage 'science' because it's just another form of damage.
its a science skill. abilitys wich use that skill are science.
Everything is broken in pvp. Imagine, ships carrying weapons capable of destroying equally skilled opponents. That just not possible.
Guess thats because one can counter BFAW in PvP with... an particle manipulator enhanced feedbackpuls
Because according to them science ships should not be allowed to exist at all in the game.
Some people say science ships should not be about Damage, but rather crowd control and debuffing. Back in the day when STO was released science ships were DAMN GOOD at doing just that.
But guess what? People bitched and whined and moaned and cried about OP Science was and how it was unfair that science ships could debuff and crowd control the living **** out of them, so BOOM out came the nerf bat and for many many years science ships were nothing but a sad joke.
And of course when science ship finally become viable again, and are able to be competitive with escorts and cruisers in damage dealing people are crying and whining once more, about how unfair partgens are etc etc. I mean we can't have science ships actually have any teeth and be useful in a fight now can we? :rolleyes:
It never changes, like I said, these crybabies won't be happy until science ships are removed from the game. I mean god forbid there should be a different effective playstyle than spamming beams everywhere.
The issue is an overall meta issue.
Damage is well above and beyond the importance of anything else in the game.
Exotic damage offers Sci a chance to do damage, but it's awkward in that Exotic does so much more than other Sci build types but yet far less than "normal" weapons-based builds.
And while I've been playing Sci since Open Beta, I lament the total lack of skill needed with today's Sci meta. TBR is literally fire and forget, and requires no skill. GW at least requires you to pick a target that has the most potential to drag everyone else in/that's most central, but then Destabilizing Resonance Beam is just a Death Ray that melts everything in it's way. (But, of course, you can say the same thing about FAW) Also all of it just so happens to completely bypass shields.
... and that's it. Sure, you can run a drain, but you're better off with an Exotic drain. CC or shield strip? Why bother?
BFAW in PvE: king
Partigens in PvE: lame
BFAW in PvP: lame
partigens in PvP: OP as hell
Dudes seriously, try going against a skilled PvPer on a partigen boat. Shield penetrating Kinetic damage which can easily be oneshot in case of Isocannon. At least with vapers you need timing as positioning, and not all the times you get to make it. If it doesn't work you're locked out. With partigen boats it is costant hull burning.
I disagree.
Partigen boats can be resisted with kinetic damage resistance and plenty of hull heals. If your an engineer that also makes things even easier.
Well built cruisers, tanks and healboats are also exceedingly difficult to take down as well. But quite frankly escorts and comparable ships are supposed to be "glass cannons", and its actually rather ridiculous that they can shield tank as well as they do in the current meta.
I have also seen extremely powerful BFAW bleed PvP boats that can pretty much melt any ship that isnt packing FBP, just by looking at it.
FBP bleed boats could be effective in DR, now they are just a dead weight in a team. Literally nobody runs it anymore.
Should it be unplayable because of PvE then? PvE needs better artificial intelligence and less hitpoints, that's why they keep boosting exotic damage more, and more and more and more.
Problem is that player's ship HP are way lower than those hitpoint bags named "NPCs". So while an Isocannon will never oneshot them, it can do it pretty easily against a player ship, like how it just happened to me.
[Combat (Self)] Your Isokinetic Cannon deals 85333 (25217) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Rommie.
raw was actually lower than usual.
Seriously, where are the PvPers? All I see when I look at the queues are zeros. I guess maybe there's still some privates being made, but why balance a game around less than 100 players?
Can't say I deny that partgen builds aren't strong in PvP, but then so is subnuc. These powers are counters to the out of control damage that tacs can bring to bear.
My favorite Ker'rat memory was hearing an alpha, buffing up and turning, a BoP decloaks in front of me, I instinctively subnuc, and unload a full force CRF, destroying the BoP. It was Mini, and he was no sore loser. Back when I used my Mobius as a dogfighter lol.
When I ran my FBP Nebula, I would wreck 1v1 opponents, and have even odds on a vaper. But the HOBO drain team could still lock me down, drain my aux power and kill me in a second. There's always a counter.
But I've rambled on long enough... good times though.
To save PvP Cryptic needs to stop this exotic damage charade. "Who cares about PvP?" - that's a legit question. However the answer isn't "Nobody, so let's just add god mode abilities". It makes things worse.
My point was:
Build 1 traditional escort : Most weapons upgraded, all consoles upgraded, all nessecary doffs/traits
Build 2 fawhore beamer : Most weapons upgraded, all consoles upgraded, all nessecary doffs/traits
Build 3 Torpbomber : mk14 torps and Vulnerability torp consoles, torp doffs, torp traits, 2x elite meshweavers
All 3 setups have substantial time and dil invested into them
Build 4 Partigenboat : mk12 omnis + mk14 torps, 2x mk12 fleet PG, 2x VR mk12 PG, 1x mk12 Exotic PG [Kin) - various mk12 exotic boosting uni and rep consoles - PG Manipulator
This is practially slapped together with stock gear (except for the torps).
Soooo.. Does it compute that the build with the least time and dil invested into it, matches the Epic builds in PvE, and outclasses them by far in PvP?
Like I said, it might be related to me exclusively flying a Tactical Captain... It could just be the Tac captains abilities and have too high an effect on PG powers...