Is that on all torps or on torps with an extra sort of effect? Kind of like there's the issue they're fixing with Concentrate, where not only the torp triggers it but things like PDoTs, Neut Rad, etc also end up triggering it. So the torp triggers the Kemocite and the "extra" the torp has also triggers it sort of thing...is that what you're seeing?
I.. honestly haven't gotten around to testing it indepth, but I noticed the proc showing up, with damage, twice per torpedo - immediately when fired.. and then several seconds later when the projectile itself connects.
These are crafted photons with the [spr] and crit mods, so there isn't a secondary effect like plasma fire or movement debuffs, etc. The only thing that 'might' be close to that would be Kinetic Sheering, but KLW doesn't seem to proc when that damage happens. Again, I'd probably need to strip everything down to do a proper controlled test - which I'm not terribly excited about doing.
(I do still need to do a hard test if the Torpedo Point Defense System procs TLW, but I have noticed it doesn't cause a lightshow like torp spreads do - despite launching even more torpedos per target.)
..I'm just concerned that something that finally helps torpedo builds for a change is probably going to get 'corrected' into the ground.
As for the mines.. I know the visual effect applies for every individual projectile - Torpedo Spread 3 causes each target to flash 4 times(..twice). Seeing as damage is applied for each individual mine, I'd say there's a good chance of it.
Hmm... On my logs it registers as having hit anywhere between 500-800+ times, which is weird since I do not fire that many torpedoes (even with spread). If it does proc twice, then maybe that would explain that. If it's bugged that way, I have to unequip this skill. I do not want to try to build up my DPS only to find it was artificially boosted by a broken skill.
Well, consider that the proc is an AoE. Firing a _single_ Torp Spread at, say 5 targets, that are bunched together will result in:
4 torpedos per target = 4 hits
4 hits across 5 targets = 20 hits
20 hits across across 5 targets via AoE splash damage = 100 hits
double-proccing on launch/impact = 200 hits
That said, I think that's only the visual proc(perhaps the debuff part?), the damage only seems to apply (twice) when the actual damage/to-hit rolls are done.. The ability basically turns any torpedo into a Neutronic.
While we're on the subject of this ability, if the devs review it, can we also see about dialing down the VFX? Combining this ability with BFAW / Torp Spread lights up space like a turn of the century rave. :rolleyes:
Initial tests to mobs show no damage upon firing in TS, but it appears that the debuff is being applied. I'll set up a recorded session in a PvP match to verify and provide as evidence. I have not paid attention to single shot or high yield vs mobs.... yet.
Glad the radiation is being boosted by items that boost radDMG now.
EDIT:
Thank you, Snipey, for testing with me.
PvP Testing shows very minor damage being applied twice; once on launch via Spread, and a second upon impact. HY volleys were applying the debuff only on impact. For destructible torps, the application is applied on launch, but then fades prior to impact. Snipey and I found some other (absurd) bugs with torpedoes (no surprise). Video will be available shortly.
Initial tests to mobs show no damage upon firing in TS, but it appears that the debuff is being applied. I'll set up a recorded session in a PvP match to verify and provide as evidence. I have not paid attention to single shot or high yield vs mobs.... yet.
Glad the radiation is being boosted by items that boost radDMG now.
EDIT:
PvP Testing shows very minor damage being applied on Spread on launch and upon impact. None on High Yield for volley torps. For destructible torps, the application is applied on launch, but then fades prior to impact. Snipey and I found some other (absurd) bugs with torpedoes (no surprise). Video will be available shortly.
^^ But that doesn't make it OP. Rather, torps have been severely under-powered. and KCLW finally gave players a reason to slot torps again. Heretofore, everyone and their friend was using BFAW, and even got angry when you told them you're using torps (true story).
People really need to stop the OP mantra, merely because many ppl use an ability. By that token, BFAW is OP too (or APB, even); and if you take away BFAW, SS3 again; and remove the latter, and CSV/CRF become 'OP' again. Etc. Whatever gets nerfed, ppl will always find an optimal build. People need to learn the difference between optimum and OP.
My point was that under normal circumstances, it's fine. But I can see someone making a build in which it will be overpowered. And that might ruin it for everyone else.
I'm expecting a 'TS on first hit only' kind of change, like what happened with the gravimetric torpedo.
The original audio didn't come out right for whatever reason. There were other tests performed as well, including the 0 damage for rifts from TDD and TriC.
Thanks, Snipey for the laughs and the production value, as well as your commentary.
The number of bugs just in a 10 minute test :eek:
It boggles the mind how can criptic launch new powers and equipment without doing the most basic testing.
Come on take a little pride on your work, what a shame...
If it aint ready dont release it.
The original audio didn't come out right for whatever reason. There were other tests performed as well, including the 0 damage for rifts from TDD and TriC.
Thanks, Snipey for the laughs and the production value, as well as your commentary.
^^ Thank you, Marshall and Snipey, for that vid, that was as instructive as it was hilarious!
The original audio didn't come out right for whatever reason. There were other tests performed as well, including the 0 damage for rifts from TDD and TriC.
Thanks, Snipey for the laughs and the production value, as well as your commentary.
Thank you for sharing. So HY is pretty gimped for these torps. I couldn't watch in HD so I couldn't read the numbers on the log, but at TS does KCLW apply its damage twice too or just the debuff?
Thank you for sharing. So HY is pretty gimped for these torps. I couldn't watch in HD so I couldn't read the numbers on the log, but at TS does KCLW apply its damage twice too or just the debuff?
Thanks!
Will have to check the logs, but KLW does apply damage and debuff on launch. Assumption is, "Yes, it does apply its damage twice.", but will need to verify w/ the logs again.
EDIT:
Remoted into home PC to quickly glance at the logs. Looks to be the case. You should be able to see it as well in the vid.
That doesn't bode well for my build. KCLW was about 5.5k DPS in my best parse. With double debuffs and double damage, that may mean I have a lot more to do to reach the 40's much less to stay in the 30's.
That doesn't bode well for my build. KCLW was about 5.5k DPS in my best parse. With double debuffs and double damage, that may mean I have a lot more to do to reach the 40's much less to stay in the 30's.
Then we'll adjust your build to get higher. The thing is that issues like this need to be fixed in order to have a proper foundation to build from. (Yes, I am paraphrasing Borticus).
For TS, just the act of firing places the debuff for you and other teammates to utilize BEFORE the torpedoes actually hit the target(s) (not intended, OR right), and then again upon impact. I have to double check and see if it's for the full duration upon impact, or if there is only one timer that starts upon initial launch.
For HY, the same thing applies, but the HY torpedo never makes it to the target in time to benefit from the debuff (which is significantly more important than the KLW radDMG).
Things need to work right. I may be in the minority here, but I am not the kind of player that plays the game with everything in OP mode. I am also NOT the kind of player that enjoys struggling tremendously to gain a miniscule increase, especially if it's in a system that could work right, and work very well.
I like the challenges of using a torpedo starship SO LONG AS the systems and mechanics make sense and are functional. My sig finishes the rest of this thought.
Exactly my point. I like you am not a fan of using broken mechanics for my gain in a game. So if this skill is fluffing up my damage because it is broken, I'd prefer not to use it. It is just unfortunate since I coughed up the EC to equip two toons with it.
It does bring me back to the drawing board though. It's no biggie. Just another challenge to surmount.
Exactly my point. I like you am not a fan of using broken mechanics for my gain in a game. So if this skill is fluffing up my damage because it is broken, I'd prefer not to use it.
You can also take a different approach: use it and accept that it'll be rightfully nerfed in the future.
I have a question for you guys.
Kemocite1 tooltip says:
While this enhacement is active, your weapons have a chance to deal additional kinetic damage in a small radius around your foes.
This explosive impact is powerful enough to also reduce their damage resistance for a short time.
Projectile Weapons will always trigger this explosion, while energy weapons only have a small chance to trigger it.
Targets Self
30 sec. recharge
Enhance your weapons for 10 sec to apply on hit:
*4.1 radiation damage to Foes in 1Km radius
* -10 Damage resistance Rating
Energy Weapons have 10% chance to trigger, but projectiles will always cause explosion
Now what makes me wonder is the phrase: to apply on hit
I assume this means 10% chance (energy weapons) gets calculated per shot, not circle?
(which would mean that cannons get a much higher chance for a explosion than beams?)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You can also take a different approach: use it and accept that it'll be rightfully nerfed in the future.
Or they could simply fix it, without nerfing it. Aka, have it proc only once, but buff said proc, so Kemo is not immediately nerfed by 50%.
See, the thing is, I look upon Kemo as a 'happy accident.' It's the torp buff that may not have been fully intended, but was abssolutely needed! We've gotten to the point where anything possibly equally good as BFAW is considered OP.
Or they could simply fix it, without nerfing it. Aka, have it proc only once, but buff said proc, so Kemo is not immediately nerfed by 50%.
See, the thing is, I look upon Kemo as a 'happy accident.' It's the torp buff that may not have been fully intended, but was abssolutely needed! We've gotten to the point where anything possibly equally good as BFAW is considered OP.
I am not finding it much of a torp buff. Its broken on most of the torpedo's I tried. Doesn't work on mines either. Its just another half broken system like the R&D torpedo upgrades or the new next to broken advanced torpedo that does around half the damage of basic torpedos. Why is it torpedo users get left out time and time again with half broken or badly underpowered systems?
I am not finding it much of a torp buff. Its broken on most of the torpedo's I tried. Doesn't work on mines either. Its just another half broken system like the R&D torpedo upgrades or the new next to broken advanced torpedo that does around half the damage of basic torpedos. Why is it torpedo users get left out time and time again with half broken or badly underpowered systems?
Must be the torpedoes you use. On my combination of Neutronic, PEPT, Enhanced Bio-Mol, and Gravimetric torpedoes, KCLW2 scored over 7k DPS in my last ISA run.
Must be the torpedoes you use. On my combination of Neutronic, PEPT, Enhanced Bio-Mol, and Gravimetric torpedoes, KCLW2 scored over 7k DPS in my last ISA run.
High Yield Gravimetric is broken and so is High Yield PEPT with Kemocite. 100% of all mines are broken, so are all Clusters torpedo's among all the other torpedo's its broken on. It does work on some like Neutronic but its hardly a working as intended power as its broken as often as it works.
Comments
I.. honestly haven't gotten around to testing it indepth, but I noticed the proc showing up, with damage, twice per torpedo - immediately when fired.. and then several seconds later when the projectile itself connects.
These are crafted photons with the [spr] and crit mods, so there isn't a secondary effect like plasma fire or movement debuffs, etc. The only thing that 'might' be close to that would be Kinetic Sheering, but KLW doesn't seem to proc when that damage happens. Again, I'd probably need to strip everything down to do a proper controlled test - which I'm not terribly excited about doing.
(I do still need to do a hard test if the Torpedo Point Defense System procs TLW, but I have noticed it doesn't cause a lightshow like torp spreads do - despite launching even more torpedos per target.)
..I'm just concerned that something that finally helps torpedo builds for a change is probably going to get 'corrected' into the ground.
As for the mines.. I know the visual effect applies for every individual projectile - Torpedo Spread 3 causes each target to flash 4 times(..twice). Seeing as damage is applied for each individual mine, I'd say there's a good chance of it.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
4 torpedos per target = 4 hits
4 hits across 5 targets = 20 hits
20 hits across across 5 targets via AoE splash damage = 100 hits
double-proccing on launch/impact = 200 hits
That said, I think that's only the visual proc(perhaps the debuff part?), the damage only seems to apply (twice) when the actual damage/to-hit rolls are done.. The ability basically turns any torpedo into a Neutronic.
Glad the radiation is being boosted by items that boost radDMG now.
EDIT:
Thank you, Snipey, for testing with me.
PvP Testing shows very minor damage being applied twice; once on launch via Spread, and a second upon impact. HY volleys were applying the debuff only on impact. For destructible torps, the application is applied on launch, but then fades prior to impact. Snipey and I found some other (absurd) bugs with torpedoes (no surprise). Video will be available shortly.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Looking forward to your findings.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
My point was that under normal circumstances, it's fine. But I can see someone making a build in which it will be overpowered. And that might ruin it for everyone else.
I'm expecting a 'TS on first hit only' kind of change, like what happened with the gravimetric torpedo.
Me too.
I look like a giant because I stand on the shoulders of giants.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
My torpedo spread 3 needz a little extra on top. ]:-|
Snipey's vid, which I love for his production value alone!
https://youtu.be/QWh1FouHLv8
The original audio didn't come out right for whatever reason. There were other tests performed as well, including the 0 damage for rifts from TDD and TriC.
Thanks, Snipey for the laughs and the production value, as well as your commentary.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
It boggles the mind how can criptic launch new powers and equipment without doing the most basic testing.
Come on take a little pride on your work, what a shame...
If it aint ready dont release it.
Kemocite Laced Weaponry + Grav Well + Torp Spread of Dyson Grav Torp or Plasma Particle Emission Seeking-something Torp or Neutronic Torpedo
:cool:
^^ Thank you, Marshall and Snipey, for that vid, that was as instructive as it was hilarious!
Thank you both for doing this and sharing it.
Thanks!
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Will have to check the logs, but KLW does apply damage and debuff on launch. Assumption is, "Yes, it does apply its damage twice.", but will need to verify w/ the logs again.
EDIT:
Remoted into home PC to quickly glance at the logs. Looks to be the case. You should be able to see it as well in the vid.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Then we'll adjust your build to get higher. The thing is that issues like this need to be fixed in order to have a proper foundation to build from. (Yes, I am paraphrasing Borticus).
For TS, just the act of firing places the debuff for you and other teammates to utilize BEFORE the torpedoes actually hit the target(s) (not intended, OR right), and then again upon impact. I have to double check and see if it's for the full duration upon impact, or if there is only one timer that starts upon initial launch.
For HY, the same thing applies, but the HY torpedo never makes it to the target in time to benefit from the debuff (which is significantly more important than the KLW radDMG).
Things need to work right. I may be in the minority here, but I am not the kind of player that plays the game with everything in OP mode. I am also NOT the kind of player that enjoys struggling tremendously to gain a miniscule increase, especially if it's in a system that could work right, and work very well.
I like the challenges of using a torpedo starship SO LONG AS the systems and mechanics make sense and are functional. My sig finishes the rest of this thought.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
It does bring me back to the drawing board though. It's no biggie. Just another challenge to surmount.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Kemocite1 tooltip says:
Now what makes me wonder is the phrase: to apply on hit
I assume this means 10% chance (energy weapons) gets calculated per shot, not circle?
(which would mean that cannons get a much higher chance for a explosion than beams?)
Or they could simply fix it, without nerfing it. Aka, have it proc only once, but buff said proc, so Kemo is not immediately nerfed by 50%.
See, the thing is, I look upon Kemo as a 'happy accident.' It's the torp buff that may not have been fully intended, but was abssolutely needed! We've gotten to the point where anything possibly equally good as BFAW is considered OP.
Now is the time to start a revolution.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
QFT.
Actually, although I love my BFAW, I also believe it is so standard as to be "average" and boring. It takes skill away from the player.
So, if there is to be a revolution, then it should come from player's choosing not to use it.
Must be the torpedoes you use. On my combination of Neutronic, PEPT, Enhanced Bio-Mol, and Gravimetric torpedoes, KCLW2 scored over 7k DPS in my last ISA run.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!