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Cardassian faction: how would you solve the lockbox problem?
thegrandnagus1
Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
Realistically speaking, there is probably going to be a new faction added at some point. And if this is any indication, there is a good chance it will be Cardassian. However, one of the main issues that comes up whenever a Card faction is discussed is the problem of the lockbox ships, specifically how do you ensure that the lockbox ships retain their value while players are able to get those same(or very similar) ships for "free" when advancing through the ranks of a Card faction. With that issue in mind, how would you solve the lockbox problem?
Post edited by thegrandnagus1 on
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A) make sure that the lockbox ships are superior to the free "rank reward" ships(which is already the case with other factions vs lockbox ships, so this is basically just stating the obvious)
C) make sure the lockbox ships have some unique console/power that will never be available from the "free" ships or the zen store ships for that faction
While not perfect, I think doing all of these things will allow a Card faction to have it's iconic ships, while not completely devaluing the lockbox ships people have invested in.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As reasonable as your opinion is, there are definitely going to be others who disagree and feel that their Card lockbox ships should retain their value, and their opinion is just as valid as yours. So for PR reasons, I still hope Cryptic will do what they can to make as many people who have these ships are has happy as possible(key word).
And for the record, I have none of these ships so this issue does not effect me at all.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Well, "superior" to the freebie ships that you would get by leveling... meaning, the free Galor you'd likely get once hitting Gul/captain? Sure, since that would be a T4 ship, likely.
Never gonna happen. Because Bug Ship.
Unlikely, also because Bug Ship. Cryptic could have decided to leave the JHAS pets with just the classic Bug... but they didn't. They could leave the Spiral Wave Disruptors with the Galor LB, but they likely won't.
My simple solution (someone else posted this sometime):
Rename the lock box to the "True Way Lock Box." Rename the Galor the "True Way Galor."
Problem solved.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Lockbox Galor remains as it is(T5U). The Faction Galor is a level 30 leveling ship.
I'd say to suddenly provide people who already own the ship a special console and have it included when you get the ship from now on...and for the Lobi version to be a different class.
Whether any of my specific suggestions actually happen isn't important to me. As long as they can work out some way to make most of the people who have the lockbox card ships feel like they still have something cool, I don't really care how they do it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
One suggestion I saw was to release the Galor at T4 and the Keldon at T6, with the T5U lockbox Galor being a sort of "elite" Galor.
Even the shows seem to imply multiple tiers and configurations of the Galor class. Look at the performance gap between the Galor class in TNG's "The Wounded," versus DS9.
As a Galor owner, I would consider this both canon and equitable, to have both a T4 and T5U Galor.
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I like the sentiment... but why should the Cardie ship owners get special treatment? Bug owners sure didn't... and watch how many forum dumpster fires start if the devs start showing "favoritism" for one select group of owners over another.
Cryptic already started down this path. Any way they cut it, people will be angry.
Give the cardi faction an " iconic " galor.
The only problem comes when a dominion faction is implemented, how do you cope with all those lockbox ships!! And jemmy gear from missions?
The whole, "Oh well we put their most iconic ship in a box so now we can't make them a faction" is a crock. Oh and let's not forget that the lockbox Galor is roughly equivalent to what the fleet level Galor would be in terms of stats. Sooooo, yeah.
Really not a problem at all, nothing that even needs to be solved. If they feel THAT strongly about it they could simply release a "Alpha Alliance Diplomatic" lockbox with the Galaxy, D'Deridix and the Negh'var (or Vorcha) and be done with it. There now everyone is capable of getting the iconic ship of their allied factions. Slap on some custom paint jobs depending on who is using it and there yeah go.
Does it mean you will occasionally so a KDF officer flying a DD or Galaxy? Sure. Does it mean that you would see them everywhere? No.
Not precisely the same thing though. The Gamma Quadrant pack JHAS was replaced by the equally limited and hard to get R&D pack JHSS. The Galor is looking at being replaced by a Tier-4 ship that's inferior to it in every way but available free as part of leveling, and then a Tier-6 iconic ship that is superior to it in every and by being purchasable straight from the Zen store, in most ways cheaper.
But having identified the way this comparison isn't really fair, basically I agree with you. Existing characters won't have access to the shiny new Galors they make as comparable ships to the Tier-4 and 6 Galaxies, Negh'vars and D'deridexes since existing players won't be part of the new Cardassian faction. They have the only Galor that's available to non-Cardassians, which puts them head and shoulders above the Federation players who want to Kirk it up in a time traveling B'rel.
And, the point?
The LB Galor and JHAS were "gamble ships." The JHAS was replaced by the JHSS. IMO, it's silly to think the LB Galor would get any special treatment.
That sounds reasonable to me.
I get your point, and I know that no matter what they do some people won't like it. However I still hope they will do things in a way to make as many people happy as possible.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Besides, if the original bit of flavor text for the Galors is true, these are 40 year-old Galors that Damar 'hid' back when he started to go against the Dominion. They are most assuredly NOT modern, up-to-date (in the terms of STO's time) ships. Even if they are being kept up to date, it's all on imported or otherwise specially-made parts.
Comparatively, to the Cardassion Union, which might fly it's own Galors, but able to build and update them right there, just as any major power keeps it's ships going strong.
So if a Cardassian faction was made, I think they should make the ships how they WANT to make the ships, and not worry about the Galors already in the game.
Obviously, there will be new "free" ships to fill the F2P requirement. But will they deal with Level 50 T5 ships, which are C-Store purchases?
Or... will the Cardie faction be the first "clean" faction that bypasses T5-U to a large degree, and jumps straight to T6?
If they decide to go for it, I think they will just not "deal" with the lockboxes. The lockboxes give you a non-facion ship, that's their unique value.
Maybe they "compensate" by picking one ship from every faction and turn it into a lockbox reward. I suppose that would depend on how CBS sees this issue a bit.
One could argue we already have a precedent - the Borg Adapted Romulan vessels are Romulan, after all, and yet any faction can use them. (Of course, there are some slight difference, like the adapted ships being from the Empire, not the Republic.)
Don't release the Cardassian Faction. Ever.
Option #2
Replace the Galor with another ship of equal value; maybe the Keldon (a ship otherwise limited, even within Cardassian ranks).
Option #3
Present said Cardassian Faction with a Tier#4 Galor, with no chance of upgrade.
Option #4
Ignore those who have one via a Lock Box and release a better one for even more dollars; this wouldn't be the first move Cryptic have made whilst taking away from what has been earned, though it would be one of the more severe ones.
Option #5
Present Galor owners with a one-time exchangeable token, allowing them to purchase outright one of the other Lock Box ships in exchange for their Galor Cruiser.
This is the most likely option, however.
One ship will not stop them from releasing the Cardie faction, if that is the way they want to go.
After the JHSS, nothing is sacred anymore.
no not realistic at all. cardassians are just to small to make up a whole faction. they are vastly devastaded as a major power, like garak said in the end of ds9. they got kicked in the TRIBBLE by bajoran rebels and got kicked again by the dominion.
i suspect a faction-spread playable cardassian species is worth a thought.
we wont see dominion or cardassian factions ever. they just are no major factions within the story. dominion is a pure nemesis, and the cardassians are just to small now after ds9.
also the borg are not meant to be a full faction at all. they are a nemesis too. it would destroy the whole storyline if they are playable fully.
captured borgvessels? okay. allied liberated cooperative ships, okay as well.
full borg, dominion, cardassian? NOT EVER i hope.
i already hate the romulan end solution ... i still hope they sometime will recover to a full united independant empire again ...
I have a KDF alien who looks like (read actually is in my mind) a cardassian and he flies the galor.
I would be much more interested in being able to 'convert' him into a proper Cardassian, if said faction was ever released, than what happens to his ship....
At his point I would prefer no new faction at all and just for them to release a +1 cardassian lockbox with the keldon in it.
...#LLAP...
The "realistic" part I am referring to is from a business perspective, not a story perspective. However from a story perspective, I think a Cardassian faction will be similar to the Romulan Republic...for better or worse.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sure, the Cardassians suffered greatly after the Dominion War, but that was some 35 years ago. The supernova that hit (and destroyed) Romulus was a lot more recent, and we have a band of civilians that have turned up their own small empire. If a bunch of Romulan Refugees that lost their homeworld can once again become mighty, then you can be damn sure the Cardassians are capable of becoming again too.
I would also prefer this option, but there's a lot less money in it for Cryptic.
Change the lock box Galor and call it the True Way Galor and give it a new skin.
The Cardy faction Galor...could make it a lower tier than the box one...maybe T4. According to Memory Alpha the Keldon class is the evolution of the Galor...and lets face it they're pretty similar :P
The Keldon can be t5 or t6...and there you have it...problem solved.
I hope we'll get a Cardassian rep like the Romulan one...because I want Spiral Wave Disruptors! (Two stat mods like the Romulan Plasma so it doesn't devalue the beams the lock box ship came with)
Well...you're probably going to be in the same boat as those folks who put a lot of time and effort into an Alien or Vulcan "count-as-romulan" before LOR hit.
Edit: Add to that, they should then rename the "Cardassian Lockbox" into the "True Way Lockbox" like they did with the "Xindi Lockbox".
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