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Random Crafting is horribly innefficient

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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    sonnikku wrote: »
    Except, he didn't nail it. It went right over his head and half the heads in his thread. The only situation in which the scenario he describes would make sense would be if Cryptic had a mod selection box that let you cherry pick your mods in exchange for a lump sum of dil/zen. A system where they get paid. Hence the need to buy more resources. Except no such functionality exists and hardly any resources are being wasted by anyone.

    Think about it. The people cranking out items like a mad man, playing the slots are all making mark 2's. These cost practically zilcho to make. Even the dil "Finish Now" button that is so taxing at higher levels is effectively circumvented. And there's no point in crafting at higher marks either and paying those higher resource costs as they offer no better chance at getting the mods you want. That's the problem. People with truckloads of resources to spend have no way of crafting the mods they want or speeding up the monotony, even if they're willing to part with gobs of it to accelerate the process. The option just isn't there. In turn, Cryptic isn't getting paid either because Mark 2's are cheap to make and cheap/instant to finish.

    There is no "marketing GENIUS!" to be seen here. In the system Cryptic has devised, no one wins.

    The marketing isn't in how many mkii's people make, it's in how many they want to bring to mkxiv's.

    It's about how much extra dilithium can be drained from the player economy, how much EC's can be made by player's thru the exchange economy, how much game time people are willing to spend to get what they need and/or, spend zen if needed to get it!
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    sisteric wrote: »
    Actually is should just be a DB thing to compare against. And just a flag to mark what has been discovered. It would mean more developemnt time at thier end as they set up the DB with every possible combination. And then anytime they add a new mod, they would have to add all of it's possible iterations in too. Code wise not complex, just very time consuming on intitial setup is all.

    And with it being R&D DOffing missions, the complexity would only being in the mission list, and in the fact that they might want to add a feature or two to the UI to help sort and present the new production models a bit.
    It'd end up as a huge database. And that's not good.
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  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    sonnikku wrote: »
    There is no "marketing GENIUS!" to be seen here. In the system Cryptic has devised, no one wins.

    You fail to realize how many players fall for the current scheme. Cryptic is winning here, like it or not.
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  • lenordhmccoylenordhmccoy Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    A little off topic but where is the best place to get tech upgrades?
  • abaddon653abaddon653 Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    A little off topic but where is the best place to get tech upgrades?

    Make them yourself.
  • voivodjevoivodje Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Gents, with all due respect, but that is the entire point.
    It's a money/mat sink, it was made like this so you would have to put in an effort to get the better gear.

    It can't be that hard to understand, now can it? :)
  • edited May 2015
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  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    prierin wrote: »
    First off, is that a typo or HOW did you make over 4000 cannons? Where would you even store them? Lastly, if so, they still sell as junk and at that number you're still looking at MILLIONS of ec.

    Secondly, I agtree, crafting needs a tewak. I'd like to see the option to choose your procs (on a succeed/fail) but that opens the possibily that a fail would mean the consumables are used bt the craft is trashed, so it's kind of a double-edged sword there.

    I'd also REALLY like to see the option to reverse engineer items to lean new (advanced) recipes, including the fames corrosive plasma, piercing tetryon, etc.

    4000 isn't that uncommon. Im at the stage that if it doesn't have the desirable [proc], it goes to the recycle bin.

    Don't get me started on the costs associated with going from 3 procs to epic golds.

    Agreed - we need more control on the procs. The random nature of the procs - and those completely wasted PvP abilities - seriously WHO PLAYS PVP? 9 GUYS? - completely invalidate the the value of R&D for the player.

    Agreed on the availability of recipes. It's time.
  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    A little off topic but where is the best place to get tech upgrades?

    The baseline upgrades are superior. Anything less is a waste of EC.

    Most players make their own ponce they hit lvl 15 in the desired school.

    With the appropriate doff, you can usually get 2 per attempt with a crit.

    How to IMPROVE your chances for optimal outcomes?

    1.) Craft Mark II items once you're at lvl at that school. Even common doffs give you a good chance for VR results.

    2.) Save the ones with the right procs. Scrap everything else.

    3.) Using an experimental superior upgrade + +50 Research bonus token, start the upgrade process. The item will go up to lvl 6 or 7 in 4-5 steps. Each step has a chance to goto UR and then EPIC.

    4.) If the result isn't what you're looking for, start again.
  • x6460x6460 Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    When an artisan, engineer, or what have you Crafts something. They know exactly what they are making.

    STO “Crafting” is nothing more then gambling. Forced Lock Box mentality.

    I for one dislike gambling. The house always wins.

    Cryptic is the house, Gambling is a waist of time. This isn't crafting.

    I'll pass.
    Finally decided to make a sig.
    I see allot of them with a character, and ship.
    though I'm not sure which ship to put on there...
    I'll think about it. This will do for now.

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  • drbiteydrbitey Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    x6460 wrote: »
    When an artisan, engineer, or what have you Crafts something. They know exactly what they are making.

    STO “Crafting” is nothing more then gambling. Forced Lock Box mentality.

    I for one dislike gambling. The house always wins.

    Cryptic is the house, Gambling is a waist of time. This isn't crafting.

    I'll pass.


    seeking creative solutions to this widespread view. post possible solutions that would cheer up this crowd. (its a big crowd)
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    voivodje wrote: »
    Gents, with all due respect, but that is the entire point.
    It's a money/mat sink, it was made like this so you would have to put in an effort to get the better gear.

    It can't be that hard to understand, now can it? :)

    Fine. I'm already sinking tons of EC and dilithium into an upgrade, why do I have to take a chance on getting the mod I want, or worse yet, getting one that I don't? This is particularly maddening when I upgrade a set item, and it is ruined by some unwanted mod. How much more grinding and sinking do they need from me? I'd pay $$ to get the mods I want.
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  • kjwashingtonkjwashington Member Posts: 2,529 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    x6460 wrote: »
    When an artisan, engineer, or what have you Crafts something. They know exactly what they are making.

    STO “Crafting” is nothing more then gambling. Forced Lock Box mentality.

    I for one dislike gambling. The house always wins.

    Cryptic is the house, Gambling is a waist of time. This isn't crafting.

    I'll pass.

    Oh so much this. So much in fact, that I'll ask if I can make this into my new sig. (I've been needing a new one.

    Honesty, if its supposed to be a resource (dilithium/mat) sink, then just make the prices really high. :mad:
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  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crusty8mac wrote: »
    Fine. I'm already sinking tons of EC and dilithium into an upgrade, why do I have to take a chance on getting the mod I want, or worse yet, getting one that I don't?
    Because once you craft the item you want, you never have to craft that item ever again. If we could control it [Crtd]x4 become so commonplace that everyone will have them.

    Then Cryptic will look at their almighty metrics and go 'hmmmm everyone is rocking [CrtD]x4 weapons, guess that stuff is overwhelmingly powerful, nerf time.'

    At least now they can say that the difficulty in getting the initial [CrtD]x3 weapon mk II weapon and the one in four chance of it getting another CrtD mod on upgrade to UR balances it out.
  • jakal122481jakal122481 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    hey guys WAKE UP open your eyes O.O its not gonna happen so stop seriously. your not the only one to have made thousands of items in the game i do it all the time to get desired mods. if you don't like it don't craft and buy it from exchange
  • apsciliaraapsciliara Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    hey guys WAKE UP open your eyes O.O its not gonna happen so stop seriously. your not the only one to have made thousands of items in the game i do it all the time to get desired mods. if you don't like it don't craft and buy it from exchange

    But that won't solve the issues at all. It'll just stay crappy forever if people don't make their voices heard.
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    stofsk wrote: »
    Because once you craft the item you want, you never have to craft that item ever again. If we could control it [Crtd]x4 become so commonplace that everyone will have them.

    Then Cryptic will look at their almighty metrics and go 'hmmmm everyone is rocking [CrtD]x4 weapons, guess that stuff is overwhelmingly powerful, nerf time.'

    At least now they can say that the difficulty in getting the initial [CrtD]x3 weapon mk II weapon and the one in four chance of it getting another CrtD mod on upgrade to UR balances it out.


    If their goal is to make us grind, then you are correct. If their goal is to make money, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    hey guys WAKE UP open your eyes O.O its not gonna happen so stop seriously. your not the only one to have made thousands of items in the game i do it all the time to get desired mods. if you don't like it don't craft and buy it from exchange

    Great!!! Will you sell me a Mk IV Assimilated Set, please. No [Threat] traits attached.

    Hmmmm.... didn't think so. :rolleyes:
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • depc101depc101 Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    They don't update pvp in the game cause majority ppl don't play pvp
    But they add it as a mod on weapons making them useless to the majority of player base. :confused:
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  • drbiteydrbitey Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    prierin wrote: »
    First off, is that a typo or HOW did you make over 4000 cannons? Where would you even store them? Lastly, if so, they still sell as junk and at that number you're still looking at MILLIONS of ec.

    Secondly, I agtree, crafting needs a tewak. I'd like to see the option to choose your procs (on a succeed/fail) but that opens the possibily that a fail would mean the consumables are used bt the craft is trashed, so it's kind of a double-edged sword there.

    I'd also REALLY like to see the option to reverse engineer items to lean new (advanced) recipes, including the fames corrosive plasma, piercing tetryon, etc.

    4000 isn't that uncommon. Im at the stage that if it doesn't have the desirable [proc], it goes to the recycle bin.

    Don't get me started on the costs associated with going from 3 procs to epic golds.

    Agreed - we need more control on the procs. The random nature of the procs - and those completely wasted PvP abilities - seriously WHO PLAYS PVP? 9 GUYS? - completely invalidate the the value of R&D for the player.

    Agreed on the availability of recipes. It's time.

    great idea! (wanted to jump in and bump this thread, its important to me) keep the solutions flowing folks! hope some of these ideas help revamp unacceptable aspects of r&d system!

  • drbiteydrbitey Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    the best tech upgrades are aquired weekly through most current episodes. i believe its one per account per week.
  • drbiteydrbitey Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    drbitey wrote: »
    just made 4325 mk ii antiproton dual heavies with lvl 19 cannon r&d skill, purple doffs. got 5 mk ii [crtd]x3 proc, was after only crtdx4 upon upgrading, they are all junk. everyone is trying so hard doing the same thing i am, therefore all items are valueless according to exchange. i cant even give em away! Random proc crafting is the weakest thing ive ever done here in 6 years. (and i spent 3 months hanging with slamek and neelix) please burn it down and design a new idea. (this all means im starting the same process again, here we go, hope im not wasting tons of time and currency.

    UPDATE: today is the 16th! here is hoping new fleet holding with R&d fixes the random proc crafting!


    if not please continue with the great suggestions for change!

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