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Kemocite-Laced Weapons?

e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
A few questions regarding this skill:
  • Does the radiation damage get buffed by particle generators?
  • Does the skill work with other torpedo skills (HY and TS)?
  • If it works with TS, does it apply the proc (radiation damage + debuff) to each torpedo?
  • If it works with TS and if it works with each torpedo, do the radiation damage and debuff stack (ex. if I shoot TS at one target)?

I'm thinking of slotting this in for my torpedo boat to replace APB1. I'm just hesitant to spend the EC until I get a little more feedback on this skill.

Thanks!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • blessedladyboyblessedladyboy Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Can't answer anything because having too much fun with it...all I can say is wow...
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    If buffed by particle generators then part gens boats would probably dish out ridiculous damage using it.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Not sure on the first point, I doubt it(most 'radiation' doesn't), but it is stupid-flashy on my torpedo armitage that can throw out around 50 torpedos at once. Between it and the new Projectile doff, I have been noticing an improvement in damage - ripping through about 20% of a cube's health before cracking shield facings(with Kinetic Sheering).

    It does stack with torpedo attacks, and each hit will proc on its own - I wasn't paying close enough attention to whether the resistance debuff stacks. It also stacks with attack patterns and pretty much everything else.

    It's ABSOLUTELY worth replacing APB on a proper torpedo boat. I actually gave up a second copy of BFAW for mine. (I was originally going to replace a tac team, but the ship draws waay to much aggro to not have two copies. WTB T6 Armitage with an additional tac seat slot!)
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,490 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    It's ABSOLUTELY worth replacing APB on a proper torpedo boat. I actually gave up a second copy of BFAW for mine. (I was originally going to replace a tac team, but the ship draws waay to much aggro to not have two copies. WTB T6 Armitage with an additional tac seat slot!)

    If you have room in your DOff active roster, a pair of Purple Conn Officers can reduce Tac Team down to global.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Thanks!

    I went ahead and got it. It's a fun little skill and it does a pretty decent amount of damage. You guys are right, for a torpedo boat, it is worth giving up APB for this. :)
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 696 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Isn't the general rule something like, "IF damage is caused from firing a weapon, THEN it isn't buffed by PrtG" or something like that?

    Generator
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I can "confirm" that its not affected by partgens.
    But it most definitely IS affected by radiation buffing consoles.... and science ships definitely get the best mileage out of it. :D
  • heresincebetaheresincebeta Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Isn't the general rule something like, "IF damage is caused from firing a weapon, THEN it isn't buffed by PrtG" or something like that?

    Generator

    Except for the iconian T4 buff... basically the same thing but says it's buffed by exotic damage buffs...
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited April 2015
    e30ernest wrote: »
    A few questions regarding this skill:
    • Does the radiation damage get buffed by particle generators?
    • Does the skill work with other torpedo skills (HY and TS)?
    • If it works with TS, does it apply the proc (radiation damage + debuff) to each torpedo?
    • If it works with TS and if it works with each torpedo, do the radiation damage and debuff stack (ex. if I shoot TS at one target)?

    I'm thinking of slotting this in for my torpedo boat to replace APB1. I'm just hesitant to spend the EC until I get a little more feedback on this skill.

    Thanks!

    1) No (based on tool tip) Also not buffed by Tac Team

    2) Yes. I haven't worked out yet if the radiation and debuff is applied before or after the applying torpedo damage is calculated.

    3) Not sure on the radiation being applied for each torpedo in the spread (or salvo for HY). If it works like Neutronic, then yes.

    4) Testing for both TS and HY spread's/salvo's
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    As far as I can tell, the extra damage triggers per torpedo, including torpedo spread and the photon point defense console. At least the visual effect does. The debuff I am not sure about.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm happy I bought this and replaced my APB with this. This skill (Lt. slot) is in my top 5 DPS dealing skills right now. It actually deals more DPS than my torpedoes (plasma emission cloud excluded). It works perfect with a GW, Destabilizing Resonance Beam and a TS. :D
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    It does stack with torpedo attacks, and each hit will proc on its own - I wasn't paying close enough attention to whether the resistance debuff stacks. It also stacks with attack patterns and pretty much everything else.

    It's ABSOLUTELY worth replacing APB on a proper torpedo boat. I actually gave up a second copy of BFAW for mine. (I was originally going to replace a tac team, but the ship draws waay to much aggro to not have two copies. WTB T6 Armitage with an additional tac seat slot!)

    I can already see Bort nerf KCLW within a few weeks. :( Which is sad, cuz I paid over 40 mil for all my copies. But, more importantly, because this is *precisely* the kind of love torps needed! But yeah, trust on my end is pretty much gone, really.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Based on the changelog for today, was Reciprocity never working for this skill? If it does now, then this will be an even better skill for sci-torps. :D
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I can already see Bort nerf KCLW within a few weeks. :( Which is sad, cuz I paid over 40 mil for all my copies. But, more importantly, because this is *precisely* the kind of love torps needed! But yeah, trust on my end is pretty much gone, really.

    When you see the price of the tier 1 of that ability in the Exchange way higher than tier 2/3, you know it's because players know it's out of whack and abusing the hell out of it.

    17 mil EC for a lt ability when the other two are way way cheaper? Come on. You know it's because it's over performing.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    When you see the price of the tier 1 of that ability in the Exchange way higher than tier 2/3, you know it's because players know it's out of whack and abusing the hell out of it.

    17 mil EC for a lt ability when the other two are way way cheaper? Come on. You know it's because it's over performing.


    By that rationale buying *anything* which is expensive is OP and 'exploitative behavior.'

    The prices for it are so high, primarily because it's new. I won't be at that level for ever.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    By that rationale buying *anything* which is expensive is OP and 'exploitative behavior.'

    The prices for it are so high, primarily because it's new. I won't be at that level for ever.

    I was actually thinking that higher prices with the lowest tier could have been because non-tacs can have limited tactical slots in their ships, i.e. demand driven (newness is certainly a factor).

    If I wanted to slot something in my Patherfinder or Recon Sci Vessel I could only use the lowest power rank.
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    By that rationale buying *anything* which is expensive is OP and 'exploitative behavior.'

    The prices for it are so high, primarily because it's new. I won't be at that level for ever.

    It can also get pricier as time goes on. These lockboxes will be replaced by other lockboxes. The supply of this ability will only go lower.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited April 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    By that rationale buying *anything* which is expensive is OP and 'exploitative behavior.'

    The prices for it are so high, primarily because it's new. I won't be at that level for ever.

    This.

    One of the major reasons rank 1 is so sought after for Tacs is because there is now a useful, non-redundant ability that is not tied to other BOff abilities. For me, the opportunity cost to slot rank 1 of this ability is ZERO. I lose nothing of any significance in having this ability at Ensign. At higher ranks, you have to weigh your options carefully.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    e30ernest wrote: »
    It can also get pricier as time goes on. These lockboxes will be replaced by other lockboxes. The supply of this ability will only go lower.

    Indeed. But these things tend to peak first: very high in the first weekend or so; then it will taper off, as time goes by, and then gradually go up again when it becomes too rare.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I was actually thinking that higher prices with the lowest tier could have been because non-tacs can have limited tactical slots in their ships, i.e. demand driven (newness is certainly a factor).

    If I wanted to slot something in my Patherfinder or Recon Sci Vessel I could only use the lowest power rank.


    Yes, it nicely solves the surplus Tact Ensign slot issue. :)

    And it's not OP, as it's primarrily meant for use with torps, and the world and their friend keep telling me 'real' players don't use torps. It's a good buff for torps: one which was much needed. Even with KCLW, torps are by no means on par with energy weps and BFAW yet; but it's a good start.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm not surprised by the higher price for lower abilities. I was Running ApO3, 2 BFAW3, ApB1 and a TT2 on my Charal. Now I have 2 KLW1 instead of them doing nothing. Im not surprised that the I and II are more expensive then III because I have a hard time wanting to remove one of my BFAW3 abilities.

    The price does not indicate that it is op. It is just that desirable.
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. Because it triggers on every torpedo fired, the amount of bonus damage can actually become quite substantial. On TS3 for example, it triggers a lot of times and if the targets are also grouped up by gravity well...

    It's a pretty powerful ability. Whether it's overpowered I'm not quite sure, but it certainly made my torpedo builds stronger.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thibash wrote: »
    To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. Because it triggers on every torpedo fired, the amount of bonus damage can actually become quite substantial. On TS3 for example, it triggers a lot of times and if the targets are also grouped up by gravity well...

    It's a pretty powerful ability. Whether it's overpowered I'm not quite sure, but it certainly made my torpedo builds stronger.


    ^^ But that doesn't make it OP. Rather, torps have been severely under-powered. and KCLW finally gave players a reason to slot torps again. Heretofore, everyone and their friend was using BFAW, and even got angry when you told them you're using torps (true story).

    People really need to stop the OP mantra, merely because many ppl use an ability. By that token, BFAW is OP too (or APB, even); and if you take away BFAW, SS3 again; and remove the latter, and CSV/CRF become 'OP' again. Etc. Whatever gets nerfed, ppl will always find an optimal build. People need to learn the difference between optimum and OP.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ^^ But that doesn't make it OP. Rather, torps have been severely under-powered. and KCLW finally gave players a reason to slot torps again. Heretofore, everyone and their friend was using BFAW, and even got angry when you told them you're using torps (true story).

    People really need to stop the OP mantra, merely because many ppl use an ability. By that token, BFAW is OP too (or APB, even); and if you take away BFAW, SS3 again; and remove the latter, and CSV/CRF become 'OP' again. Etc. Whatever gets nerfed, ppl will always find an optimal build. People need to learn the difference between optimum and OP.

    Your logic is OP. Please nerf.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Your logic is OP. Please nerf.

    Current: Beam Barrage...20s duration...inability to stack with FAW.
    Tribble: Beam Barrage...30s duration...ability to stack with FAW.

    They wouldn't have buffed FAW like that if FAW was OP! Right? ;)
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    As loathe as I am to admit it, it probably will be getting a nerf at some point. It appears to double-proc on torpedos - once when the torpedo(s) fire, and again on impact.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    As loathe as I am to admit it, it probably will be getting a nerf at some point. It appears to double-proc on torpedos - once when the torpedo(s) fire, and again on impact.

    Is that on all torps or on torps with an extra sort of effect? Kind of like there's the issue they're fixing with Concentrate, where not only the torp triggers it but things like PDoTs, Neut Rad, etc also end up triggering it. So the torp triggers the Kemocite and the "extra" the torp has also triggers it sort of thing...is that what you're seeing?
  • ssargonssargon Member Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    As loathe as I am to admit it, it probably will be getting a nerf at some point. It appears to double-proc on torpedos - once when the torpedo(s) fire, and again on impact.

    Hrm. IIRC, when you use APB and fire a torp, it applies the debuff graphic immediately; since KLW has a debuff component, I wonder if it's applying that first, and then the damage upon impact while using the same graphic for both...

    Or maybe it is double-proccing and that's why; game might not know how to apply one effect immediately and one on hit and just does both. Both times.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    Is that on all torps or on torps with an extra sort of effect? Kind of like there's the issue they're fixing with Concentrate, where not only the torp triggers it but things like PDoTs, Neut Rad, etc also end up triggering it. So the torp triggers the Kemocite and the "extra" the torp has also triggers it sort of thing...is that what you're seeing?

    I bet the code applies the debuff first, and the damage second.

    I'll organize a test later, but I grow weary of the same mistakes being made over and over and over.....
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • heresincebetaheresincebeta Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I was wondering... does it apply to mines? Specifically does it trigger for each mine on the Transphasic Cluster Torpedo?
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