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Scaling sector space feels too small, maybe PVE in sector space.
neoforce42
Member Posts: 126 Arc User
Perfect World has done a good job at making the sector space feel more open but it does seem that most planets don't feel scaled right. An example is I should be able to fly around a planet within a few minutes due to the planets gravity while most planets seem pretty small in sector space compared to what we usually see in missions. If they scaled the planets up and increased the distance in general distances then it might feel more like open space like passing Mars to get to Earth. Once this is done then it could lead to things like players going to the planets are in the middle of an invasion instead of warping to a new zone.
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Most players don't care much for sector space in it's current state since we're lucky enough to get any change in sector space but still it's a decent change, more players want realism. It's a bit of crazy move not to make the game seem more realistic since it's hard convincing new players. Most players don't mind flying across the galaxy, it's part of the reason games like Eve Online and Elite Dangerous have become so popular. Many Trek fans want the Trek feeling, are underwhelmed. Also you are not most players. :rolleyes:
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
And I will point out, again, that Taco has already stated the reasons why this was done the way it was done. It does not matter what my opinion is because the Devs have already spoken to the whys.
Firstly that's not even funny. 2ndly it does take 3 days in-game to get to Ds9. Nothing of what you said made any sense. As a 3d designer myself...it could be done and there's no reason why it couldn't when many modern space orientated games do this as a standard feature.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
At no point have you shared this link. quite a bit of what you've been saying makes no sense.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
It's also not my job to put up for trolling either.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
Well, I'm glad you're here to speak for most Trek fans. I don't know what I'd do without you telling everyone else what they think.
I like the new sector space.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
There's a difference between having an opinion and just directly insulting people over it. Pretty sure calling someone to insult someone is against the T & D aka harassment.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
So somehow you think this 'thecosmic1' is allowed to preach that everyone is allowed to only think 1 way with no innovation, you assume that Star Trek fans aren't allowed to want improvements? wtf, of course people want to see change. Do you seriously think people would be interested if they decided to take features away? :eek:
As I've said in my first post that I like the change in the open space, the only really thing is I wanted was for STO to keep improving, it makes no sense as to why gamers wouldn't want this. I even stated facts that Trek fans have been known to go towards modern space related games because they expanded, at what point did I tell them what to think?, actions speak louder than words. Maybe you should do some research:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=874801
"Planet scale being too 2x small and interior scale being 2x too big has been one of the largest player grievances with STO from the start." from 2013, the sector space hasn't improved much with the planetary scales.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
Regardless of your views the site does not make it easy to report members.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
All cosmic did was tell you the facts, that doesn't mean that he (or anyone else) is obligated to give you the source. Taco made it a forum sticky for a reason.
As for the topic, I would hate to spend real-time days flying from one system to another. If nothing else, the revamp makes space feel big which is a great improvement over the old sector boxes you could pass in 10 seconds with fast engines. It may not be "realistic" but then again if the game were realistic, we would be spending hours staring at the bridges view screen with nothing happening.
"Let them eat static!"
Doesn't take me long to show a quote. Anyway I'll look into finding a admin. Nobody said anything about realistic real time flying. I said a few minutes, I never said a few hours to orbit a planet.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
Yes, it has improved. It used to be a bunch of blocks and planets, stars, etc. have grown in size. If you have some problem with playing the game and actually getting things done in a reasonable amount of time, I suggest logging out after warping to your destination for enough time for you to feel like it took you a while to get there.
I for one want to spend the few hours I play STO each weekend to playing.
-Edmund Blackadder-
That's not really the point......expanded universe means more content. It means more chance of things like diplomacy instead of trying to rush through a missions as quickly as possible, that's part of the reason why STO feels so linear. Nobody here is talking about 3 hour journey's, you could easily fly around the planet/moon without gravitational pulls. My main concern was scaling. If you're concerned about wasting warping then there's no reason why they couldn't scale up the size of planets and increase the speed of the ships themselves.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
...I actually didn't say any of that. I said you don't speak for me and I like the new sector space.
Are... are you alright?
You're... quoting... a short-lived forum thread... as... legitimate research material...?
Dude, it's fine for you to have an opinion. But when you throw a tantrum and start screaming about how you just can't believe everyone wouldn't want what you want, it makes it very difficult for your opinion to be taken seriously.
Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your approach.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
its a bit like looking at a street map.
and like any street map objects on it do not actually reflect the size of the object and are just graphical representations of the objects they depict.
some items that are exceptionally large might be scaled down so they don't obscure everything else and other items that are not so lagre might be scaled up so they stand out more and are not missed or hard to find.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I kind of get what you're getting at but from what I've seen in view screens...they tend to look more like short looped clips than actual live space which is why we never see countless ships appearing in the ESD when parked outside. As for items well there are other ways to scan for items that they could implement.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
what you see on view screens in the shows or in the game is not the same as the view you get in tactical mode, that's why they never see their own ship when they have a view of space on the view screen if you was to see the view inside your ship all you would likely see is stars as most of the stuff you see in tactical of sector space even stars would be too far away to appear as anything more then pinpricks of light, even if you was just outside our own solar system you would only see our own sun as no more then a very bright star as the size of our solar system has been determined as 1.87 light-years from the sun to the outer edge.
that's why sometimes in the game it might appear like you have crashed into a sun, you haven't really crashed into a sun its still thousands of miles away its just the way it looks in the tactical view as tactical is not a true representation of space just a guide as I was saying before like a street map.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
but I think he was referring to the people playing the game...and yes the majority does not want to spend too long flying from A to B. Yes there are people who would enjoy a trip from ESD to DS9 taking 20 minutes, I'm actually one of them, but I also know that this would simply kill the game for new players that are NOT looking for a 10 minute break while playing because they need to get to a planet fast. (srsly, isn't that exactly what sucks in other games if you can't afford a mount or the fast travel to a certain position, flying from orgrimmar to silithus wasn't the best part of wow, if I remember correctly
Right now, sector space is OK, not great...but compared to the useless thing it was before, being OK is a huge improvement.
I think it needs more random events and random encounters...the astroid for crafting stuff was an excellent addition, they should build on that and expand.
Red alerts are starting to make sense finally...they need to add more of them. Herald red alert, tholian, borg, pirate attacks on freighters...i think there is a good possibility to bring back things like Starbase 24, Klingon scout force (herald scout force maybe?), Big dig, etc...they could all be reshaped into red alerts, thus giving them purpose and people to play it. (though i would revamp them for 5 players)
So are you complaining about lack of content? And about the last sentence you wrote, your argument was about how it should take longer to fly in space and that it should all be bigger, so what are you arguing about now?
The view screens in the shows? So basically the streaks of light that pass the ship? Is that what you want to see? It's more visually engaging to see planets and stars in space than to see streaks of light surrounding you. It's also much more friendly for users to see where they're going.
-Edmund Blackadder-
My idea was mainly to increase the size of the planets to make open space feel more like open space since at moment it kind of bugs me how small they currently look. Think we're getting a fair amount of content lately.
I've never really been fussed about decreasing the time it takes to get to different location, I only suggested an idea that players could circle a planet could take a few minutes or less (practically next to barely any time, depending on how fast there going). Basically meaning that the player would be warping past planets as if they were in Trek space instead of it feeling like I'm going past a football sized planet. I have noticed the view screen very rarely get's much interaction in general and most of the time it just feels like isn't used for much of anything.
There's plenty of Trek games that took advantage of this like Starfleet Academy where the player could interact with the bridge for commands while switching to the classic STO style combat.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
As Cosmic 1 attempted to tell you at the start, I have gone over this a bunch already.
But here's the basics.
Quadrant Maps are nearly the max size we can make them without significantly changing how things work under the hood.
So, we can't spread things out much more than they are already.
If we scale up planets without spreading them out more, it looks dumb.
So. . . no.
If you're referring to older machines not being able to cope with scaling then just make it for higher end machines since pretty confident my machine can take it. Maybe it's about time things changed 'under the hood' and implement something like level streaming to make the expanse of the sectors feel bigger than they are.
So maybe it is best to spread out the planets when scaling them then increase the general speed of ships to make the game-play feel more natural in sector space for those that don't like the general duration between planets like an option then add an impulse for planets mostly and warp speed when leaving orbit that way people can choose to warp past a planet or go in there in impulse. Either way something like this really should be experimented on to see what works.
If you're against innovation then that doesn't give much hope for the future of STO.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
Game engines typically have limitations in terms of how large you can make the levels, how many objects can be placed in them or rendered at one time, etc. Sometimes those limitations come from the end user's hardware/resources, but most often the limits are intrinsic to how the game engine was designed.
This is something you should be extremely familiar with, if you're the actually author of the open-world Doom mod in your sig. I used to do a lot of Doom level design back in the day, and I seem to remember that the original Doom engine and the WAD format had hard limits on the maximum level size because of the 16-bit fixed-point values used to store map units.
Even though sourceports removed many of the limitations of the original engine, such as the low visplane limit, there are still things which simply could not be changed without a complete rewrite not only of the game engine, but of the WAD format itself. I'm pretty sure that is the kind of limitation Taco is talking about.
Think about it for a minute, and realize that you're not being particularly fair about this. The dev team didn't create this game engine--they've been adapting and tweaking one that they inherited, and are already pushing the limits of what it can do.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Older engines like the original Doom engine weren't meant to be designed with what my mod was designed for due to the technology at that time, yet I expanded the original designs on a modified engine to do something that would have been impossible 20 years ago.
Now we're talking about a more modern engine that STO is using with less limitations and modern hardware, in the same era of gaming where most engines can create seamless worlds including remaking Doom on engines like Unity. As for the STO it isn't my job to know what limitations PW has and it's not as if they ever released the Cryptic engine to the public.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project