There is NO WAY that the offending ship traits will get fixed without going unscathed or nerfed in some way. They will certainly be changed, I sense.The QnD way will likely make the powers not have to do so many state checks, so they may turn into a more passive-type of power perhaps?
Took you a whole minute to read my post?¿ Ok yeah that explains a lot of things...
Forums trolls? like me im guessing?
So let me get this straight:
-I never said there wasnt any lag,just stated that i didnt get any rubberbanding or lag
-That not all players suffered lag and rubberbanding
Yeah some and i say SOME not the whole playerbase of STO like some of you doomsayers wanted us to believe on the forums suffered some lag,you are getting a fix so be happy,instead of thanking the devs you used forum space just to troll the players who simply posted that they werent having any issues while playing STO...yeah bud,bang up job of your post.
No one said it was a Server Wide issue. What we said was that it was a Server SIDE issue, i.e.: the problem wasn't with the players' ISPs or home PCs.
For some reason you conflated server side with server wide and trolled every post anyone made about the issues. you kept saying that if you didn't have lag then it wasn't an issue on cryptics end. Boy where you wrong.
Hmm quick question,how can it be a server issue if it doesnt affect everyone?
Riddle me that and ill give you a lollipop
Dont you think the forums would be in chaos similar to the french revolution and even worse if everyone had this "lag" issue you keep on talking about?
Truth is that yeah some and here i place a big emphasis on the word "SOME" players suffer lag,rubberbanding and such but since not all of us suffer it i dont see how it could be an issue with the server.
Let's be honest here, a lot of people had this issue, only SOME people didn't. We have thousands of people in the DPS channels and they all suffered through the lag and misfires, from one degree of severity to another. I know players from other in-games channels (with 100s or 1000s of players) that also had issues.
If you weren't having any issues then A) you got very very lucky, or you haven't been playing the game.
So yeah, as the lead dev stated: it WAS an issue on cryptic's end, with the network hardware and with certain player abilities that where overloading the gameservers.
I guess you owe everyone lollypops, but i think i can safely speak for everyone and say we'd rather you stopped trolling.
Took you a whole minute to read my post?¿ Ok yeah that explains a lot of things...
Forums trolls? like me im guessing?
So let me get this straight:
-I never said there wasnt any lag,just stated that i didnt get any rubberbanding or lag
-That not all players suffered lag and rubberbanding
Yeah some and i say SOME not the whole playerbase of STO like some of you doomsayers wanted us to believe on the forums suffered some lag,you are getting a fix so be happy,instead of thanking the devs you used forum space just to troll the players who simply posted that they werent having any issues while playing STO...yeah bud,bang up job of your post.
You never said there wasn't any lag? You may not have used those exact words but you definitely expressed your opinion as being in the camp that denied such a problem existed. Your post below is one such example:
Tons? hundreds to thousands?
PROVE IT!!
Show me the post count and chat logs of these mythical "Great White Buffalo" (Hot Tub Time Machine movie reference) that have so many problems.
Once you show me these thousands i will retract my post and apologise,until then you are not going to be taken seriously and probably be mocked at because:
a) You make up numbers which dont exist
b) You have an attitude and to be honest i dont like you
c) You could have posted in one of the other threads regarding this so called "problem" yet since you are under the delusion of thinking you are a special snowflake you decided to make a new thread...
In this example, you don't state you aren't getting any lag. You asked the person who you were replying to prove to you that thousands of people were experiencing it when it was quite clear that the assertion of "thousands" was nothing more than his/her way of conveying the size of the issue for their point of view.
So for you to mock at those who voiced their concerns about this lag when it was affecting every MMO that PWE own was based entirely on the fact that you weren't experiencing it yourself. This is little but to further aggravate those who were already agro. So all was well at Fort Plasmanugget while there were cries about the lag of doom from neighbouring regions. But really, it wasn't what you said, it was how you said it.
There is NO WAY that the offending ship traits will get fixed without going unscathed or nerfed in some way. They will certainly be changed, I sense.The QnD way will likely make the powers not have to do so many state checks, so they may turn into a more passive-type of power perhaps?
^^ This is exactly what I am fearing too! Like Supremacy, presumed to generate a wicked amount of data traffic, as it triggers *per hit*, instead of per volley.
The man did say, though, that they would "rebuild them in a way where they are functionally identical to you." Here's to hoping it will, indeed, be so!
But You Guys Should Be Prepared For The Potential Nerfs That Might Come Into Play As They Determine A Certain Ability Just Can't Remain Enough The Same To Deal With Its cost.
No trolling here, but, I'm not sure if it is really HOW the lines of code are written that cause the 'lag bug'. It seems to be more like a graphics overload as well. Imagine if you will, me, telling you a story that takes five whole minutes. That story should have been done in less than one minute. And then I do the story in overly exaggerated Sign Language.
I'm trying to compare an overload of too much or redundant code in the player's power script and a large amount of powers going off at once, like weapons firing solutions and the elaborate graphics that go on with such powers.
I hope I made it easy to understand where I'm coming from. I find that a lot of my post get blown out of proportion because, evidently, I am a poor communicator when it comes to forums.
Why? Because lowering the powers doesn't change the fact that the powers are still going off...they are just going off with less kick than before. So...that's not the answer. IMHO only though. Think on it.
What I'm aiming at here is: Nerfing powers might not have any affect on the Lag Bug at all. It could be, very possibly, poorly written game code that causes the game to hang up, like a vinyl record that's scratched and keep playing to same segment of the record, over and over until it either skips out of the scratch by itself or you come over and put the needle where it needs to go.
And by that I am talking about Game Code. And maybe graphics too. But a nerf? I don't know. That seems the wrong way to try and fix this problem.
*sound of a thousand forum trolls' heads exploding as they try to reconcile Cryptic admitting to the lag with their dogmatic belief that the lag does not exist*
Or that there's no possible way it isn't 100% the person's hardware or network.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 1860)
Good thing you posted this here. I m somewhat like Salamek and the raddit thing is just too bright for me.:D
Its nice to know that something is being done for the lag problem.:eek:
Originally Posted by salamiinferno View Post
There are three large issues that are impacting performance right now, and they're all under investigation.
We're having some odd network issues, not including DDOS attacks, and you may have seen trendy collecting traces along with other information from players. This data is being passed off to our network engineers who are working to solve this issue.
A bug that caused major FPS issues went live with Season 10 and wasn't discovered until Friday. We have a fix that's already on tribble and will go live this week.
We did some profiling on our heavier maps and discovered that some player powers are incredibly expensive on our gameservers. It will take some time to identify them all and rebuild them in a way where they are functionally identical to you, but far less expensive for the gameservers. This is a change that will take time but will trickle out as we identify the offending powers and make fixes.
This is a pretty big deal to us and we have a fair amount of people across a wide array of disciplines working to get this resolved. I apologize for the inconvenience and my delay in posting something about it. Nothing nefarious about the delay, it's simply a busy time over here post release.
... and this is why it doesn't pay to frantically wave your pom poms while desperately shouting there is no lag, because eventually the truth will come out and you'll just look like a silly little cheerleader.
You never said there wasn't any lag? You may not have used those exact words but you definitely expressed your opinion as being in the camp that denied such a problem existed. Your post below is one such example:
In this example, you don't state you aren't getting any lag. You asked the person who you were replying to prove to you that thousands of people were experiencing it when it was quite clear that the assertion of "thousands" was nothing more than his/her way of conveying the size of the issue for their point of view.
So for you to mock at those who voiced their concerns about this lag when it was affecting every MMO that PWE own was based entirely on the fact that you weren't experiencing it yourself. This is little but to further aggravate those who were already agro. So all was well at Fort Plasmanugget while there were cries about the lag of doom from neighbouring regions. But really, it wasn't what you said, it was how you said it.
I wonder which traits cause lag; I have not experienced any myself while in space; except in Fleet Alert (about the only queue with regular lagfests; and it only goes away once the offending person is dropped by the server).
There is some lag on the ground though (even just visiting social zones such as ESD/DS9), a full second delay before any interactive pop-up appears (even to use exchange or the bank).
Well done gentleman,because as we all know taking quotes but not the context where they were posted is the solution for everything.
FACTS about this whole issue:
-There was lag but it wasnt SERVER WIDE,did you get that thru your thick skull? For every poster in the forums i have 20 that havent felt any lag or rubberbanding.
-Do you think the first 10 pages of the Star Trek Online General Discussion forums segment would look like this if EVERYONE had lag and/or rubberbanding?
Now it wouldnt,it would be spammed top to bottom with the same idiotic post i have seen in other mmos...calling the devs namess and thinking that by being rude they would get their point across....bad call.
My post in the forums regarding this issue was more in response to the people who greatly exagerated the issue at hand...did they have lag and rubberbanding? hmm who knows maybe yes maybe no...but they greatly exagerated and pretended to speak on my behalf and that is something i will not tolerate,not a sheep im an individual and i have a mind of my own...now if all of you like to practice herd-following that is your priority not mine.
Not going to bother with both of you any more,not worth my time...just be lucky you are getting a fix to "your" problem,if you ask me you are getting more than you deserve....yeah you heard me,read your old post and if it were up to me i would have you banned indefinitely from the game,people like you are poison.
Cheers
/Forum ignore snipey
/Forum ignore sarcasmdetector
You're right it isn't server wide. It is multi-PWE game server wide as Neverwinter players are copping lag now.
We are poison? This is a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black. In light of the post from PWE admitting there is an issue, it would have taken courage on your part to put on the big boys voice and say something humbly such as "Turns out there were lag issues there, guys & girls. I have still not encountered this myself but it seems there are many that are seeing as they have to rebuild things to fix it. Guess I was wrong..."
If you had said something along those lines which is akin to maintaining your position but contritely accepting the position of others, I can say that I would have reconsidered your tag of Alpha Grade Troll. Instead, you have just reaffirmed it. Good luck with your next keyboard warrior campaign, mate but please don't ignore us! You have provided great entertainment and we don't want to lose that.
I wonder which traits cause lag; I have not experienced any myself while in space; except in Fleet Alert (about the only queue with regular lagfests; and it only goes away once the offending person is dropped by the server).
There is some lag on the ground though (even just visiting social zones such as ESD/DS9), a full second delay before any interactive pop-up appears (even to use exchange or the bank).
You're right it isn't server wide. It is multi-PWE game server wide as Neverwinter players are copping lag now.
We are poison? This is a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black. In light of the post from PWE admitting there is an issue, it would have taken courage on your part to put on the big boys voice and say something humbly such as "Turns out there were lag issues there, guys & girls. I have still not encountered this myself but it seems there are many that are seeing as they have to rebuild things to fix it. Guess I was wrong..."
If you had said something along those lines which is akin to maintaining your position but contritely accepting the position of others, I can say that I would have reconsidered your tag of Alpha Grade Troll. Instead, you have just reaffirmed it. Good luck with your next keyboard warrior campaign, mate but please don't ignore us! You have provided great entertainment and we don't want to lose that.
Well this clears up a few things and now to find the culprit abilities and traits,
for the record I don't notice the command ship abilities to be doing it, i.e the platforms they can launch, however it could be some of the ship masteries themselves and maybe even combined with other such ingredients could be the problem.
Its like the new improved Joker products.
Lipstick and hairspray alone wont do it but combined with baby lotion and viola, we get lag again and again.
Thanks for the info sarcasm detector. I'm curious exactly what traits are causing all the lag. Everyone seems to be saying AHOD or Supremacy.
Why would supremacy be causing lag? I'm not sure how it is coded, but doesn't it work similar to plasmic leech (which has been in the game for years)?
For good measure, sarcasmdetector didn't bring up Supremacy, I did. And you make a good point about Plasmonic Leech (which, functionally, works similarly). So maybe it isn't Supremacy at all, but one of the team-based Command ship Traits?!
So basically it's best to play this game for about 1 month only at a time about a month after the last patch went to Holodeck. Give or take a week or two. Continuous, uninterrupted game play is not recommended. Constant cycle here for years where buggy broken content is released, gets fixed at some point in the future upon which time, that breaks something else which may or may nor get fixed in the future and so on...what a mess yo.
I'm curious, has anyone measured how much bandwidth this game consumes while in a fight? My theory is that there is a lot of communications going on between the server and the client. Maybe the amount of data is getting large enough to cause problems for players with lower connection speeds.
For example:
Traits that need to check team player health for example to give bonuses to you (command traits) would need a check on another player, sent to the server, sent to you and you send back data too. If one (you or the other player) has a less than optimal connection, could that cause issues on the server side (since it is waiting for data from either of you)?
I'm curious, has anyone measured how much bandwidth this game consumes while in a fight? My theory is that there is a lot of communications going on between the server and the client. Maybe the amount of data is getting large enough to cause problems for players with lower connection speeds.
Doubt it, running 100mbps/down 6mbps/up,
That said, the amount of information the client/server need to handle is probably high (hence why they said it's "resource expensive". Think of it as having a large water pipe, but a small filter.
Not your connection, but someone else's in the same map. If the server has to wait for a response from that guy, could it potentially affect you too since traits can affect entire teams? That's what I meant.
Comments
You should probably read that link yourself.
No one said it was a Server Wide issue. What we said was that it was a Server SIDE issue, i.e.: the problem wasn't with the players' ISPs or home PCs.
For some reason you conflated server side with server wide and trolled every post anyone made about the issues. you kept saying that if you didn't have lag then it wasn't an issue on cryptics end. Boy where you wrong.
Remember this nugget?
Let's be honest here, a lot of people had this issue, only SOME people didn't. We have thousands of people in the DPS channels and they all suffered through the lag and misfires, from one degree of severity to another. I know players from other in-games channels (with 100s or 1000s of players) that also had issues.
If you weren't having any issues then A) you got very very lucky, or
So yeah, as the lead dev stated: it WAS an issue on cryptic's end, with the network hardware and with certain player abilities that where overloading the gameservers.
I guess you owe everyone lollypops, but i think i can safely speak for everyone and say we'd rather you stopped trolling.
You never said there wasn't any lag? You may not have used those exact words but you definitely expressed your opinion as being in the camp that denied such a problem existed. Your post below is one such example:
In this example, you don't state you aren't getting any lag. You asked the person who you were replying to prove to you that thousands of people were experiencing it when it was quite clear that the assertion of "thousands" was nothing more than his/her way of conveying the size of the issue for their point of view.
So for you to mock at those who voiced their concerns about this lag when it was affecting every MMO that PWE own was based entirely on the fact that you weren't experiencing it yourself. This is little but to further aggravate those who were already agro. So all was well at Fort Plasmanugget while there were cries about the lag of doom from neighbouring regions. But really, it wasn't what you said, it was how you said it.
Snipey
^^ This is exactly what I am fearing too! Like Supremacy, presumed to generate a wicked amount of data traffic, as it triggers *per hit*, instead of per volley.
The man did say, though, that they would "rebuild them in a way where they are functionally identical to you." Here's to hoping it will, indeed, be so!
No trolling here, but, I'm not sure if it is really HOW the lines of code are written that cause the 'lag bug'. It seems to be more like a graphics overload as well. Imagine if you will, me, telling you a story that takes five whole minutes. That story should have been done in less than one minute. And then I do the story in overly exaggerated Sign Language.
I'm trying to compare an overload of too much or redundant code in the player's power script and a large amount of powers going off at once, like weapons firing solutions and the elaborate graphics that go on with such powers.
I hope I made it easy to understand where I'm coming from. I find that a lot of my post get blown out of proportion because, evidently, I am a poor communicator when it comes to forums.
Why? Because lowering the powers doesn't change the fact that the powers are still going off...they are just going off with less kick than before. So...that's not the answer. IMHO only though. Think on it.
What I'm aiming at here is: Nerfing powers might not have any affect on the Lag Bug at all. It could be, very possibly, poorly written game code that causes the game to hang up, like a vinyl record that's scratched and keep playing to same segment of the record, over and over until it either skips out of the scratch by itself or you come over and put the needle where it needs to go.
And by that I am talking about Game Code. And maybe graphics too. But a nerf? I don't know. That seems the wrong way to try and fix this problem.
LLAP,
T9
I haven't been able to test the newer card, but so far the ancient nvidia DX9 card has worked without any crashes.
Or that there's no possible way it isn't 100% the person's hardware or network.
Its nice to know that something is being done for the lag problem.:eek:
... and this is why it doesn't pay to frantically wave your pom poms while desperately shouting there is no lag, because eventually the truth will come out and you'll just look like a silly little cheerleader.
^^ I agree with everything said here.
There is some lag on the ground though (even just visiting social zones such as ESD/DS9), a full second delay before any interactive pop-up appears (even to use exchange or the bank).
You're right it isn't server wide. It is multi-PWE game server wide as Neverwinter players are copping lag now.
We are poison? This is a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black. In light of the post from PWE admitting there is an issue, it would have taken courage on your part to put on the big boys voice and say something humbly such as "Turns out there were lag issues there, guys & girls. I have still not encountered this myself but it seems there are many that are seeing as they have to rebuild things to fix it. Guess I was wrong..."
If you had said something along those lines which is akin to maintaining your position but contritely accepting the position of others, I can say that I would have reconsidered your tag of Alpha Grade Troll. Instead, you have just reaffirmed it. Good luck with your next keyboard warrior campaign, mate but please don't ignore us! You have provided great entertainment and we don't want to lose that.
Snipey
Something I made earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLKRoq-ejx0
+1
That entertainment was awesome
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
Why would supremacy be causing lag? I'm not sure how it is coded, but doesn't it work similar to plasmic leech (which has been in the game for years)?
Well this clears up a few things and now to find the culprit abilities and traits,
for the record I don't notice the command ship abilities to be doing it, i.e the platforms they can launch, however it could be some of the ship masteries themselves and maybe even combined with other such ingredients could be the problem.
Its like the new improved Joker products.
Lipstick and hairspray alone wont do it but combined with baby lotion and viola, we get lag again and again.
For good measure, sarcasmdetector didn't bring up Supremacy, I did.
For example:
Traits that need to check team player health for example to give bonuses to you (command traits) would need a check on another player, sent to the server, sent to you and you send back data too. If one (you or the other player) has a less than optimal connection, could that cause issues on the server side (since it is waiting for data from either of you)?
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Doubt it, running 100mbps/down 6mbps/up,
That said, the amount of information the client/server need to handle is probably high (hence why they said it's "resource expensive". Think of it as having a large water pipe, but a small filter.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
DSL Upstream: 10048 kBit/s
during some hours of the day it runs smoothly and some hours it rubberbands like a nightmare.
I seriously doubt my connection is too slow.:)
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Troll...troll...troll