I'm pleased that taco posted this, gives everyone some insight into why things are the way they are. Also noted the Mutara Nebula south of Klingon space, was this technically Federation space during Kirks era given the WoK storyline and the fact they hada research facility located near there? Just seems wrong to have such a valuable research facility located so close to a hostile races border. :eek:
It seems this map that everything is based on has the Federation wrapped round everything like the Romulan and Klingon Empires. I'm honestly surprised there weren't more wars with them given how confined that would have made them feel. I suppose this is what we get when you convert something that's actually 3D into a 2D map. :P
Really love the new sector space, but with how big it is now, it'd be nice to get a ship speed increase and duration increase on slip stream. Travelling around on my delta recruit is like pulling teeth right now with how slow my ship goes, even with up to date equipment.
Either way, kudos, Taco, you rock!
Also, I hope the missing patrols in the Defera sectors will be added back in, soon. Can't complete the dailies there, now.
I'm pleased that taco posted this, gives everyone some insight into why things are the way they are. Also noted the Mutara Nebula south of Klingon space, was this technically Federation space during Kirks era given the WoK storyline and the fact they hada research facility located near there? Just seems wrong to have such a valuable research facility located so close to a hostile races border. :eek:
It seems this map that everything is based on has the Federation wrapped round everything like the Romulan and Klingon Empires. I'm honestly surprised there weren't more wars with them given how confined that would have made them feel. I suppose this is what we get when you convert something that's actually 3D into a 2D map. :P
Remember the actual Mutara Nebula from TWOK isn't around anymore, having been converted into the Genesis Planet. The one in game is just a Mutara Class nebula, so it's ok to be floating around randomly. I think this may have been put in more as a nod and homage, rather than intending to be the actual one.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Do you want to know what's missing tacofangs? The moon. The Earth's Moon! :mad:
WHY DO YOU HATE THE MOON!!!
Kidding of course. Great job, Taco.
Umm... Nolt sure if this is working as intended, but when I'm in a Quad and click on a system and my ship races towards it at warp, once my ship arrives, the mission button/system info does not automatically pop up. It seems our Captains now have to steer around the sun and the planets to find the way point. Is that working as intended or could the way-points for each Planetary System need some size tweaking?
I don't mind it, in fact it sort of makes sense (come out of warp, then stop to take a few scans to make sure all is as it should be) but you know how most gamers feel about stuff like this? I mean who has 5 whole second to waste looking for a way point when they are supposed to be killing stuff.
A: Short answer? Because the writers of Star Trek used "Alpha" as a keyword for home.
In reality (fiction), Sol should be directly on the line between the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. However, merging the Alpha and Beta quadrant maps together was not possible, so we had to have a split between them. As such, putting Sol on that division is very problematic. Instead, we decided to keep Sol roughly where it has been since launch, on the Beta Quadrant side, in the upper left corner of the Vulcan Sector.
a past blog of yours said you remain loyal to canon and will go out of your way to make it possible, im sorry i do not accept that for the following reasons
Humans are a Alpha Quadrent Speices so are Vulacans.
99 percent of starfleet is in the Apha Quadrent
The Romulans and Qo'noS, the Klingon homeworld and alittle known off shoot of the Romulans the garidian's for them who dont know that off shoot of the Romulans check out Paramount pictures game A final unity.
the offical star trek fact files say earth is in the Alpha Quadrent, why are you not going along with canon is it to make your lives easy?
that is a picture of the Galaxy map the Alpha and some of the Beta Quadrent in, at the heart of the Federation is sector 001 the Terran system located in the Alpha Quadrent.
maybe you lot at Cryptic should do more research in to Canon and trying to keep in on topic as so far the new map is impressive but its not like star trek but some will say it is with out thinking.
sorry taco its just what i think about it, from what is been said and shown on Canon trek in the show/movies.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
a past blog of yours said you remain loyal to canon and will go out of your way to make it possible, im sorry i do not accept that for the following reasons.
Honesty, get the hell over yourself.
Canon contradicts itself all the time. It's been written by dozens of different contributors over the last 50 years, many of whom don't know a thing about real astronomy or celestial mechanics, and who just literally made stuff up to sound "sciency".
Taco and the rest made some adjustments to get as close as they could. They made some judgement calls.
It ain't the end of the world.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Canon contradicts itself all the time. It's been written by dozens of different contributors over the last 50 years, many of whom don't know a thing about real astronomy or celestial mechanics, and who just literally made stuff up to sound "sciency".
Taco and the rest made some adjustments to get as close as they could. They made some judgement calls.
It ain't the end of the world.
not for where earth/sol/terran system is and thank you for proving my point on people just posting with out thinking it threw.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
maybe you lot at Cryptic should do more research in to Canon and trying to keep in on topic as so far the new map is impressive but its not like star trek but some will say it is with out thinking.
sorry taco its just what i think about it, from what is been said and shown on Canon trek in the show/movies.
I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing. In both the quote from Taco that you yourself referenced and the JPEG you linked Sol is agreed to rest on the border between Alpha and Beta. Also in Taco's quote they freely state they couldn't feasibly achieve that status in the new sector map system, so they chose to maintain its already game-established position.
They know and freely admit this is one divergence from strict canon, so what are you arguing, exactly? Or has this divergence always irked you, and this is a good time to argue your case?
At the very least, the new sector space system seems a vast improvement in gameplay.
a past blog of yours said you remain loyal to canon and will go out of your way to make it possible, im sorry i do not accept that for the following reasons
Humans are a Alpha Quadrent Speices so are Vulacans.
Sol is placed on the border of the quadrants by official evidence (I cosnider Okuda et al.'s maps to be as official as, say, a TM and even the DS9 tech manual uses that). But I agree with you that sector 001 to be located in the Beta Quadrant does sound wrong to me. However, Taco laid out that the reasons for it are of a "mechanical" nature as they couldn't fit Sol in the actual Alpha Quadrant. Now I personally think they could have somehow solved the issue better, either by having a warp to location at the edges of both quadrants or just not using the quadrants as map names - the problem people now have is that Sol is clearly said in game to belong to the Beta Quadrant - even if it was technically, prior to the revamp, placed at the same location, the map and dialogue didn't outright say "Beta Quadrant" which is why most people haven't noticed. The confusion we have now is, in my eyes, perfectly understandable.
99 percent of starfleet is in the Apha Quadrent
The Romulans and Qo'noS, the Klingon homeworld and alittle known off shoot of the Romulans the garidian's for them who dont know that off shoot of the Romulans check out Paramount pictures game A final unity.
the offical star trek fact files say earth is in the Alpha Quadrent, why are you not going along with canon is it to make your lives easy?
that is a picture of the Galaxy map the Alpha and some of the Beta Quadrent in, at the heart of the Federation is sector 001 the Terran system located in the Alpha Quadrent.
You are completely using non-canon material to reason a canon discussion here, though. You should know that every material besides the actual shows and movies have no relevance in canon. Not a single book or game has any influence on canon, no matter who made it. The only thing that counts as "apocryphal" are the two (three including VOYs unreleased issue) technical manuals, as those are derived from the actual guide for the show's writer's and were written before production by Okuda and other staff and the "Okudagrams". Those aren't technically canon but as official as it gets and disregarding those is usually only done by people to squeeze a pyramid through the rectangular hole, so to speak.
I personally like the Garidians and even use them in my STO headcanon, but they don't actually exist outside of A Final Unity
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Sol is placed on the border of the quadrants by official evidence (I cosnider Okuda et al.'s maps to be as official as, say, a TM and even the DS9 tech manual uses that). But I agree with you that sector 001 to be located in the Beta Quadrant does sound wrong to me. However, Taco laid out that the reasons for it are of a "mechanical" nature as they couldn't fit Sol in the actual Alpha Quadrant. Now I personally think they could have somehow solved the issue better, either by having a warp to location at the edges of both quadrants or just not using the quadrants as map names - the problem people now have is that Sol is clearly said in game to belong to the Beta Quadrant - even if it was technically, prior to the revamp, placed at the same location, the map and dialogue didn't outright say "Beta Quadrant" which is why most people haven't noticed. The confusion we have now is, in my eyes, perfectly understandable.
You are completely using non-canon material to reason a canon discussion here, though. You should know that every material besides the actual shows and movies have no relevance in canon. Not a single book or game has any influence on canon, no matter who made it. The only thing that counts as "apocryphal" are the two (three including VOYs unreleased issue) technical manuals, as those are derived from the actual guide for the show's writer's and were written before production by Okuda and other staff and the "Okudagrams". Those aren't technically canon but as official as it gets and disregarding those is usually only done by people to squeeze a pyramid through the rectangular hole, so to speak.
I personally like the Garidians and even use them in my STO headcanon, but they don't actually exist outside of A Final Unity
that is just along time wasted as its just pointless and your not a Dev so im not going to bother to reply to it all
and fact files are canon as they are from Paramount!
so by your logic STO isnt Canon to lol and dont turn this in to a litle flame war cos you disagre so just move along flamer move along. and for the record im right Sol is in the wrong place.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
The people who designed the show placed earth on the border, and the Romulans and Klingons in the beta quad.
And the star charts team had people who made the maps for the map book made in the 1980's in there also, and even they agreed.
If the people who made the show say its where it is...... then it is.
strange as paramount have always said its in the alpha quadrent and humans are a alpha quadrent speices, since paramount made it and said it in countless shows then that is what it is :rolleyes:
i just wish people wouldnt try to flame a good issue to make it stupid, come on people stop trying to flame and let someone who knows more then a 'player' reply
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
Taco, this is awesome work. I had a few minutes of "OMG WHERE IS THE EVERYTHING???" when I logged in, but within a day I'm already getting used to - and loving - the new look. The star animations are just incredible. Like a few other posters in this thread, I've sat at a system just watching a star for a few minutes to see what it does. Limited sector walls make for a fantastic space travel experience. It's all very well done!
To the Beta/Alpha discussions... yeah, I'm ok with Sol being in Beta. It's always been referenced as 'on the border,' so if it ends up in Beta for gameplay reasons, that's fine. It's not like they put Sol on the other side of Klingon space or something silly like that. It's fine where it is.
Although I'm primarily Romulan in game... so I just might be biased towards the Beta Quadrant :P
so by your logic STO isnt Canon to lol and dont turn this in to a litle flame war cos you disagre so just move along flamer move along. and for the record im right Sol is in the wrong place.
When was STO ever considered canon? It's certainly one of the most widely accepted "soft canon" universes, but it isn't canon.
Official canon nuked the Prime Universe when Spock and Nero hit the galactic reset button. STO is a soft canon interpretation of where the Prime Universe could go.
Also, "for the record," you're wrong. It's close enough to the Beta/Alpha border that it's right where it should be.
And CBS owns the right to the shows, and said its ok for humans to be on the border, making them a species that could be identified with both quadrants, though they chose to mainly self identify as being from the alpha quadrant.
Yep. And I'd expect the Federation identified mainly as Alpha Quadrant to remain distinct from the Romulans and Klingons, who are almost entirely Beta.
But after an initial period of getting used to the new sector space I've decided I actually like it. No more getting lost trying to figure out which destination is in what sector. Its nice to be able to just look at the map and plot a course.
I feel the warp jumps to each destination is steeply overpriced though. But still, overall its nice to just be able to fly there without getting lost.
You realize, that is the map they used to make the new galaxy right? It is from Star Charts, I think he mentions it in the FAQ
Also look again at that image, Sol is right on the border of the quadrants, that line going through the centre of the dot is the border. The left side is the Alpha Quadrant, the right side is the Beta.
It isn't in just one, it is in both (or neither depending on how you view it). But for gameplay reasons they put it in the Beta quadrant, because that is where all the Tutorial and Starting missions are, it is easier for new players.
Humans are a Alpha Quadrant Species so are Vulcans.
Look at your map again. Find Vulcan, not the name, the dot the represents the system to the right of the name. Now go to the bottom of the image and look at what quadrant it is in.
Official canon nuked the Prime Universe when Spock and Nero hit the galactic reset button. STO is a soft canon interpretation of where the Prime Universe could go.
Um, they say right in that movie that they're in an alternate timeline.
The prime Universe still exists, the JJ-verse runs parallel just like the Mirror Universe.
not for where earth/sol/terran system is and thank you for proving my point on people just posting with out thinking it threw.
The only thing "proven" here is your own willingness to be a complete idiot over something that seems to matter a great deal to you, and is completely meaningless.
Check all your 'canon' sources. Sol is, and always was, and forever shall be, at the grid intersection. Quite literally, Sol is the "Four Corners" of the Feddie galactic map. From that perspective, it is in all four 'quadrants' at once.
What does it matter if Sol is in the extreme 'northwest' corner of the beta quadrant or the extreme 'northeast' corner of the alpha quadrant? Aside from giving you a reason to TRIBBLE all over someone's work, I mean?
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Federation Astrocartographers have defined the boundary between galactic "west" (Alpha) and "east" (Beta) as the line going through their capital world (Earth). This is analogous to how we reckon longitude by reference to Greenwich Observatory in London, England. Even though the zero-longitude-meridian technically divides West and East, we still think and speak of everything west of the eastern border of Germany as part of "The West", despite it being twelve to fifteen degrees east of the nominal dividing line.
I think that a similar sort of idea is in play for how the Federation and its neighbors are thought of as "Alpha Quadrant" nations despite technically being largely located in Beta Quadrant space.
The warp streaks have been fixed it just hasn't been patched in yet.
Hmm, not really. They are fixed in some sectors. For Expample. If you fly from the vendor sector to teh argama sector the streaks dissapear. They seem to be missing in some sectors... really strange..
Hmm, not really. They are fixed in some sectors. For Expample. If you fly from the vendor sector to teh argama sector the streaks dissapear. They seem to be missing in some sectors... really strange..
I've noticed that too and this is actually an issue that dates back to the first season 10 build on Tribble.
So far it seems to happen mostly around the former Psi Velorum region and often near sector borders. I haven't checked Alpha yet.
Comments
It seems this map that everything is based on has the Federation wrapped round everything like the Romulan and Klingon Empires. I'm honestly surprised there weren't more wars with them given how confined that would have made them feel. I suppose this is what we get when you convert something that's actually 3D into a 2D map. :P
Either way, kudos, Taco, you rock!
Also, I hope the missing patrols in the Defera sectors will be added back in, soon. Can't complete the dailies there, now.
Remember the actual Mutara Nebula from TWOK isn't around anymore, having been converted into the Genesis Planet. The one in game is just a Mutara Class nebula, so it's ok to be floating around randomly. I think this may have been put in more as a nod and homage, rather than intending to be the actual one.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
WHY DO YOU HATE THE MOON!!!
Kidding of course. Great job, Taco.
Umm... Nolt sure if this is working as intended, but when I'm in a Quad and click on a system and my ship races towards it at warp, once my ship arrives, the mission button/system info does not automatically pop up. It seems our Captains now have to steer around the sun and the planets to find the way point. Is that working as intended or could the way-points for each Planetary System need some size tweaking?
I don't mind it, in fact it sort of makes sense (come out of warp, then stop to take a few scans to make sure all is as it should be) but you know how most gamers feel about stuff like this? I mean who has 5 whole second to waste looking for a way point when they are supposed to be killing stuff.
a past blog of yours said you remain loyal to canon and will go out of your way to make it possible, im sorry i do not accept that for the following reasons
Humans are a Alpha Quadrent Speices so are Vulacans.
99 percent of starfleet is in the Apha Quadrent
The Romulans and Qo'noS, the Klingon homeworld and alittle known off shoot of the Romulans the garidian's for them who dont know that off shoot of the Romulans check out Paramount pictures game A final unity.
the offical star trek fact files say earth is in the Alpha Quadrent, why are you not going along with canon is it to make your lives easy?
http://booredatwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Star_trek_map2.jpg
that is a picture of the Galaxy map the Alpha and some of the Beta Quadrent in, at the heart of the Federation is sector 001 the Terran system located in the Alpha Quadrent.
maybe you lot at Cryptic should do more research in to Canon and trying to keep in on topic as so far the new map is impressive but its not like star trek but some will say it is with out thinking.
sorry taco its just what i think about it, from what is been said and shown on Canon trek in the show/movies.
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
Canon contradicts itself all the time. It's been written by dozens of different contributors over the last 50 years, many of whom don't know a thing about real astronomy or celestial mechanics, and who just literally made stuff up to sound "sciency".
Taco and the rest made some adjustments to get as close as they could. They made some judgement calls.
It ain't the end of the world.
--Red Annorax
not for where earth/sol/terran system is and thank you for proving my point on people just posting with out thinking it threw.
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing. In both the quote from Taco that you yourself referenced and the JPEG you linked Sol is agreed to rest on the border between Alpha and Beta. Also in Taco's quote they freely state they couldn't feasibly achieve that status in the new sector map system, so they chose to maintain its already game-established position.
They know and freely admit this is one divergence from strict canon, so what are you arguing, exactly? Or has this divergence always irked you, and this is a good time to argue your case?
At the very least, the new sector space system seems a vast improvement in gameplay.
Sol is placed on the border of the quadrants by official evidence (I cosnider Okuda et al.'s maps to be as official as, say, a TM and even the DS9 tech manual uses that). But I agree with you that sector 001 to be located in the Beta Quadrant does sound wrong to me. However, Taco laid out that the reasons for it are of a "mechanical" nature as they couldn't fit Sol in the actual Alpha Quadrant. Now I personally think they could have somehow solved the issue better, either by having a warp to location at the edges of both quadrants or just not using the quadrants as map names - the problem people now have is that Sol is clearly said in game to belong to the Beta Quadrant - even if it was technically, prior to the revamp, placed at the same location, the map and dialogue didn't outright say "Beta Quadrant" which is why most people haven't noticed. The confusion we have now is, in my eyes, perfectly understandable.
You are completely using non-canon material to reason a canon discussion here, though. You should know that every material besides the actual shows and movies have no relevance in canon. Not a single book or game has any influence on canon, no matter who made it. The only thing that counts as "apocryphal" are the two (three including VOYs unreleased issue) technical manuals, as those are derived from the actual guide for the show's writer's and were written before production by Okuda and other staff and the "Okudagrams". Those aren't technically canon but as official as it gets and disregarding those is usually only done by people to squeeze a pyramid through the rectangular hole, so to speak.
I personally like the Garidians and even use them in my STO headcanon, but they don't actually exist outside of A Final Unity
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that is just along time wasted as its just pointless and your not a Dev so im not going to bother to reply to it all
and fact files are canon as they are from Paramount!
so by your logic STO isnt Canon to lol and dont turn this in to a litle flame war cos you disagre so just move along flamer move along. and for the record im right Sol is in the wrong place.
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
strange as paramount have always said its in the alpha quadrent and humans are a alpha quadrent speices, since paramount made it and said it in countless shows then that is what it is :rolleyes:
i just wish people wouldnt try to flame a good issue to make it stupid, come on people stop trying to flame and let someone who knows more then a 'player' reply
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
To the Beta/Alpha discussions... yeah, I'm ok with Sol being in Beta. It's always been referenced as 'on the border,' so if it ends up in Beta for gameplay reasons, that's fine. It's not like they put Sol on the other side of Klingon space or something silly like that. It's fine where it is.
Although I'm primarily Romulan in game... so I just might be biased towards the Beta Quadrant :P
When was STO ever considered canon? It's certainly one of the most widely accepted "soft canon" universes, but it isn't canon.
Official canon nuked the Prime Universe when Spock and Nero hit the galactic reset button. STO is a soft canon interpretation of where the Prime Universe could go.
Also, "for the record," you're wrong. It's close enough to the Beta/Alpha border that it's right where it should be.
Yep. And I'd expect the Federation identified mainly as Alpha Quadrant to remain distinct from the Romulans and Klingons, who are almost entirely Beta.
But after an initial period of getting used to the new sector space I've decided I actually like it. No more getting lost trying to figure out which destination is in what sector. Its nice to be able to just look at the map and plot a course.
I feel the warp jumps to each destination is steeply overpriced though. But still, overall its nice to just be able to fly there without getting lost.
You realize, that is the map they used to make the new galaxy right? It is from Star Charts, I think he mentions it in the FAQ
Also look again at that image, Sol is right on the border of the quadrants, that line going through the centre of the dot is the border. The left side is the Alpha Quadrant, the right side is the Beta.
It isn't in just one, it is in both (or neither depending on how you view it). But for gameplay reasons they put it in the Beta quadrant, because that is where all the Tutorial and Starting missions are, it is easier for new players.
Look at your map again. Find Vulcan, not the name, the dot the represents the system to the right of the name. Now go to the bottom of the image and look at what quadrant it is in.
Um, they say right in that movie that they're in an alternate timeline.
The prime Universe still exists, the JJ-verse runs parallel just like the Mirror Universe.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Check all your 'canon' sources. Sol is, and always was, and forever shall be, at the grid intersection. Quite literally, Sol is the "Four Corners" of the Feddie galactic map. From that perspective, it is in all four 'quadrants' at once.
What does it matter if Sol is in the extreme 'northwest' corner of the beta quadrant or the extreme 'northeast' corner of the alpha quadrant? Aside from giving you a reason to TRIBBLE all over someone's work, I mean?
--Red Annorax
No it isn't, Sol is only on the border of Alpha and Beta, it is nowhere near the Gamma and Delta Quadrants.
If it was on all 4 quadrants, it would be in the galactic core being eaten by a blackhole.
The warp streaks have been fixed it just hasn't been patched in yet.
I think that a similar sort of idea is in play for how the Federation and its neighbors are thought of as "Alpha Quadrant" nations despite technically being largely located in Beta Quadrant space.
A solid question I bet we won't get an answer to.
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Good to know.
Hmm, not really. They are fixed in some sectors. For Expample. If you fly from the vendor sector to teh argama sector the streaks dissapear. They seem to be missing in some sectors... really strange..
So far it seems to happen mostly around the former Psi Velorum region and often near sector borders. I haven't checked Alpha yet.
Thank you.