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Downgraded Fleet T6 rip off
euar0
Member Posts: 68 Arc User
I got the Iconic ships pack ... Great
I go to look in the ship yard on a lark ... t6 FLEET ship of the iconic pack .. WOW
I buy t6 11 console fleet ship ship ... Cool
It does NOT have console <no surprise> and no t5 MASTERY ... WTF ?
Why force all the grinding!? ... Grind the t6 ship to mastery THEN start over again on the SAME type of ship to get t4 mastery?!
Someone at Cryptic needs slapped around .. alot!
I go to look in the ship yard on a lark ... t6 FLEET ship of the iconic pack .. WOW
I buy t6 11 console fleet ship ship ... Cool
It does NOT have console <no surprise> and no t5 MASTERY ... WTF ?
Why force all the grinding!? ... Grind the t6 ship to mastery THEN start over again on the SAME type of ship to get t4 mastery?!
Someone at Cryptic needs slapped around .. alot!
Post edited by euar0 on
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So the t4 mastery takes what . . . 100 . . . 200 hours to complete?
I skipped the the c-store NeghTev and went straight to the Fleet version. The console and Mastery trait did not seem like world beaters.
So going to do the right thing. I am lifer, and every year <5years> around christmas I put $12 a month into supporting my favorite game .. basically I add $120-150 to cover what would be a normal subscript. Hey, you have to support your artists ..
Well, no more. Not another freaking $0.01 will they see from me.
I'm just one .. and they screwed me. Fine I will vote with my pocketbook .. you get NOTHING.
It's always been that way and if you expected different then its your own fault.
Is it fair, idk
Is it par for the course, yep.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Like I said .. vote with my wallet .. they just lost a customer.
Command vs Iconic:
55k hull vs 54k
1.1 shields vs 1.0
8 turn rate vs 5 turn rate
1 hanger bay vs 0 hanger bay.
Unless I made a mistake or missed something the iconic ships have nothing compared to the iconic in any shape or form. Didn't look at Fleet stats but I don't think that's positive.
The fleet version does matter. +10% more hul and shields based on your numbers gives them more than command cruisers, the shields end up equal.
True on the turn rate and hangar bay, but as far as turn rate is concerned, it doesn't matter much with the gazillion ways in which turn rate can be improved.
You also neglected the cruiser command auras. Command Cruisers have only 2, the iconics (bare the D'kellra for obvious reasons) have all 4 of them and that does matter. Strategic maneuvering helps with the turn rate and weapon efficiency is hands down the best aura in 80% of situations.
IMO, you HAVE to compare the fleet versions to the command cruisers because they are on equal footing. Considering the above and the fact that these ships have different BOFF layouts, I find neither superior to the other, even considering the command cruiser inspiration mechanic.
"Let them eat static!"
Good point about the auras but command have their own,
Still doesn't see what tangible benefits the iconic has other than boff layout might be more to your liking. It also will cost more for the fleet module so even if you did compare, cost wise wouldn't it still be a ripoff?
Maybe you're right but it seems baffling the iconic has nothing to balance it out unless you spend more on it. It seems to be a glaring issue to me.
I was about to explain it as a difference in price and such, but then something occurred to me. Fleet T6, with no c-store discount, is 5 modules, or $25 (not sure how much the 4 module bundle is off the top of my head). They should just up it to 6 modules, which would be the same price as the cstore version, and give it the trait. You would still have incentive to get the cstore version (console, available to alts, etc), but would only need to level one ship if you got both (which would still only require one module). It may not seem like a lot of time to most, but those of us with limited play time just aren't able to grind traits like that.
Yes, I am surprised they haven't updated the Fleet Galaxy, Fleet Negh'Var, and Fleet D'D to T6. Allow players who have them already to improve them from Fleet T5-U to Fleet T6, and make all future Fleet Galaxys, Negh'Vars, and D'Ds purchased from the Fleet Shipyards T6.
Name one instance, one example, one point in this game since STO launched, before DR, after DR... at any time, did Cryptic allow upgrade of a lower tiered ship into a higher tiered one.
Answer: NONE.
What I am surprised about are people acting like this is a new thing.
Now that there are fleet versions of t6 ships perhaps some or all of your ship mastery should carry over.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
I'm trying to wrap my head around this "grind" concept, as I might just not be getting it.
So far, I get that you have to:
1. Procure C-store version for console and trait. Actually use said C-store version for XX hours / missions / whatever till the trait is unlocked.
2. Procure Fleet Module then procure fleet version for updated stats. Proceed to use said ship for X amount of time...
Now, is X amount of time just till the next shiny pops out? And then said fleet version is discarded - permanently?
Are you such a completionist that you need to have mastered every version of every ship in the game? Is there an accolade for this?
Or are you just such a min-maxxer that flying a ship at even .01% less efficiency than maximum is a "painful" act that must be corrected yesterday, if not even earlier than that?
I mean, even for the PvPer, it's a given fact that many games attempt to "force" PvPers to, at least periodically, grind PvE and "experience all the game has to offer"... And if you're investing in the fleet ship, I would sort of expect that your use of the ship is going to be much longer than just the length of time to get T4 mastery then move on - permanently...
Just trying to figure out why "let the mastery come as I use the ship" isn't a valid playstyle anymore...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Fleet ships are Premium items that provide a slight advantage over the C-Store versions in terms of specs. In order to avoid devaluing C-Store ships and preserve the prestige and advantage of the Fleet ships, they follow the following rules:
1. Fleet ships are only available to fleets which have completed the prerequisite Shipyard upgrades. They are not available for everyone to purchase. Furthermore, the purchaser needs a certain amount of fleet credits and they have to buy the FSM's.
2. Fleet ships require the purchase of 4 FSM's (no matter what tier they are). If the corresponding C-Store ship was purchased first, there is a discount and the Fleet version can be obtained for only 1 FSM.
3. C-Store ships come with specials, such as universal consoles. Fleet ships do not, but they can equip those consoles if the C-Store ship was also purchased.
4. C-Store ships are still account-wide purchases that can be claimed by any same-faction character on the account. Fleet ships are per-character.
Am I openly critical of the high cost of fully kitting out a Fleet ship? Yes. Is it paying twice (or more) for the same ship? Sort of. We could debate whether it's really the same item or not, but I won't go there.
Let's not forget that nobody's twisting any arms to buy the C-Store ship if you don't care about T5 Mastery traits or universal "gimmick" consoles and console sets. You could skip that and buy only the one fleet ship. For single-character accounts, it's not a bad deal.
And please remember that the advantages of a Fleet ship are not so superior to the C-Store version that you can't do without one. For players like me with a lot of alts, it makes way more sense to buy the account-wide C-Store ships. I have yet to purchase a Fleet ship. I have LOTS of C-Store ships in my personal shipyard. By no means close to all, but a lot.
If people want to act like Pokemon collectors (Gotta have 'em all), far be it from Cryptic to discourage them from throwing money at them. You want to fly like a space whale, you'd best be at peace with the idea of paying like a space whale.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
But you are comparing apples to oranges. When it comes to upgrading T1-T4 ships to T5, you are correct. But FLEET ships are a different matter. Fleet ships can upgrade to T5-U which is T6 minus one BOFF ability.
As for my suggestion to change Fleet T5 Galaxy, Negh'Var, D'D and others (such as the proposed T6 Sovy, Defiant, Mogai, Vor'Cha, and other "Hero" ships), I was following the example set by the upgrade that occurred for the Fleet Patrol Escort.
I understand and, for the most part, agree with you. My only issue is that if you do buy the cstore version, you have to first grind the trait on that ship, then switch to the fleet version and go back to zero mastery. With the amount of time they had before releasing fleet T6, they could have worked out a system that avoided this, such as possibly making the cstore purchase unlock the ability to earn the trait on all versions of the ship.
It's just another example of an unnecessary grind in a game full of endless grinding.
My thoughts excactly. It's a ridiculous game-designing idea and -more importantly- a horrible, horrible business model. The idea alone that I now have to grind for hours on end to unlock something that I paid for with my hard-earned cash is so off-putting that I don't feel like buying any new ships at all. I have the Delta pack and can't even get myself to grind for the traits on those trait-containers. Why would I get yet another one of those? I do like the idea of having to do it once per account, but over and over again? And yet again for the fleet version? No thanks...
Horrible design, only good for scaring away casuals from ever buying anything. And most annoying for non-casuals. I hope they come to their senses and get rid off it, make it more accessible and enjoyable. Make it account-wide. It's the way to go, Cryptic. Do it! Nao!!!
"Never thought I'd have to pay so dearly
For what was already mine
For such a long long time..."
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
Um, they basically do, minus the 5th mastery trait and a console.
Those are exclusive to the C-store versions and, not to be handed over to a fleet version for free.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
IF you don't buy them from the C-store, OR your only option is to buy it for four fleet modules, then yes, that is true.
I honestly really don't see what the issue is. People have always bought Fleet ships, since the day they came out, not for some 'mastery trait' but for the upgraded stats. Grinding out the mastery levels is NOT a big grind. It really isn't. Heck, most of the lower leveled stuff isn't really that great, and only adds a little bit here and there, depending on what ship you are flying.
neither the fleet modules nor dil exchange zen come out of thin air, someone pays real money for them. it just changes who paid, but the end result is the same, $25 in cryptic's pocket.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
As for not getting the Trait with Fleet T6? I don't see a problem with that, Cryptic has to make C-store ships worth buying and if Fleet T6 has everything that a C-store T6 has, there will be little incentive to spend the Zen on a sub-par ship. Besides, a Fleet T6 has all the goodies that the T5 fleet ships have, Fleet T5's never came with special weapons/consoles, so it's not surpising that the special traits on T6's would also not carry over...
I do wish that the Mastery experience would carry over from C-Store to Fleet, which would make upgrading from T6 to Fleet T6 less of a hassle, but that would likely be problematic from a programming viewpoint.
Let's be thankful that Fleet T6 ships aren't as expensive as Lobi store ships...:eek:
*Good as in, easy to accomplish and effective (I am not approving of this as I find it mildly annoying having to grind out so much XP/Dilithium just to get nice things)
Personally I've never minded the mastery leveling. It's spit compared to actually grinding out spec points. Long as you actually USE your ship, you'll get it eventually. At worst I considered gaining mastery levels a mild annoyance, as I simply wanted it done, especially if I was trying to get a level 5 mastery trait so I could switch back to something else.
*shrugs* Fair enough on that. Point still being that I don't see what the fuss is about. People buy a tier 6 ship, get the mastery levels including trait, and then now that they can, go for fleet ships to have the better stats. They now HAVE the trait they already worked for, and while yes they need to get the mastery levels excluding the trait, it isn't that big of a deal IMO.
Well, you can't have everything!
Either pay the $25 sticker cost for just the fleet ship or, pay $35 sticker cost for the C-store ship + fleet version!
My money would be on the $35 value, as opposed to the $25 fleet only any day.
At least the $35 gets me a ship in the mean time, plus a console and work toward a mastery trait, plus it's account wide access.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!