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AFK Penalty: Minor Rant

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  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Strange, at least since it went F2P you had to kill things to accomplish a mission and at the time escorts were the thing because they could tank and do focused dps (FAW kicked in two years later). Of course, at these times it hurt much more if someone was not doing his job, as dps, robustness and heals werent as abdundant as they are now.

    The combatlog would have been really nice, especially the damagaIn. Its my guess -since no data is presented- your tank was most likely not tanking at all.

    I like those sentences. I am watching and playing football (for americans: soccer) since childhood, yet I couldnt hold myself in an amateur league. Just doing something a long time doesnt mean one is average or better at it than newer players.

    I would be with you if the penalty would be at >10%. But 1%? Pls, its hard to call that amount of "damage" damage. Most pets (the ones already on a ship, rare ones) can do enough to avoid afk penalty.

    FYI, ISA (all STFs) ends when everything on the map is destroyed, not just the gate. Or, of course, if it fails because there was not enough CC/DPS to prevent the nanite spheres from healing the transformer.

    Kill the enemies. The faster the better. That paradigm was in the game since launch. I dont have to have been there, since its the fundamental rule of combat games.

    P.S.:And of course, instead of accepting help, you still blame others (in your case the system and possibly -your post imply that- your team).
    DPS is always a given; I think that is pretty obvious. I just think we tended more to the "MMO Gold Standard" or tank-heals-dps more back then. And on the subject of back then, I wasn't trying to imply knowledge or expertise due to long time in the game; I'm trying to say "I haven't played in a day or two."

    One point you bring up that makes me curious - did the STF crash and is this common? I ask this because I know for a fact the left side gate was still up (wasn't paying attention to right yet) and I am pretty sure the tac cube was still there too. I will admit that I was freaking out pretty hard at the 4 minute completion and the AFK Penalty window to check to see the actual status of the instance, and having not played in a while I wasn't certain the win conditions were the same as they used to be (I want to say that the sides were rotated or something - I can't put my fingers on exactly what changed but it looks different than it used to).
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  • sharpie65sharpie65 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm not sure if this has already been suggested (or stated otherwise), but instead of simply parking and dishing out you could fly around and dish out. I tend to do just less than 3k DPS in ISA, because of my heavy spec on tanking - but I always get rewards* from that queue.

    *Not trying to rub it in or anything, so I'm sorry if that's what it reads like.
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  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    sharpie65 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if this has already been suggested (or stated otherwise), but instead of simply parking and dishing out you could fly around and dish out. I tend to do just less than 3k DPS in ISA, because of my heavy spec on tanking - but I always get rewards* from that queue.

    *Not trying to rub it in or anything, so I'm sorry if that's what it reads like.

    Thank you, and I apologize for not being thoroughly clear. I don't know what the preferred method of engagement is, but what I do is come in until around 7k off the target, and then start a left or right orbit, Firing at Will. From there it's all auto fire, and I start watching my own and the groups shield and hull health. If someone is taking a beating I click on them then click on their target to try and pull that specific enemy aggro. I'll change flight to match the fight of course, and will reverse orbit if the outside shield is taking a beating, but other than that it is mostly A and thumping the space bar like a lusty Chihuahua.

    Embarrassingly, I have done something similar to park and fire ... When I'm in an escort. I'll get in closer, drop speed down to about 1/4 and pound space bar, popping tac buffs. A quick Evasive and full speed to dodge as need be, or to get back out to start the slow run in again.
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  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    A group of high dps´ers could very well troll a player that is not so much ´on the ball´. No matter your ship build and your gear. If everything is killed before you have acted, where do you park your damage?

    High DPS players have the tools and know the drill. They have done the advanced missions for record runs. I would not be surprized if some of those players pug just for the sake of trolling another player. My doubt is not against the OP, but his team mates. Be fair, what 'fun' is there else to do with extreme DPS?
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Game started at 9:57. First group fell fast, and I moved over and started engaging the second group. I assume one or two individuals made a beeline for the center gate and took that down, because the game offered its completion message at 10:01 (I even heard someone cloaking right upon entrance - did they cloak and then fly to the back of the center gate?). During this entire time I was firing and shield-casting and hull repairing, and then a great big "WTF!!" when the reward window opened.

    .
    Your team failed the event.

    end thread.

    bye.
  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thissler wrote: »
    Your team failed the event.

    end thread.

    bye.
    That probably makes the most sense. I wonder what happened to trigger it? Oh well, moving on ...
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  • edited April 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    nabreeki wrote: »
    While there have been hold outs (people so disconnected from reality that they think "tanking" is still a viable play mode)

    The concept of tanking has many definitions, and may be part of your misunderstanding about tanking.
    I've held aggro for a player doing 64k in ISA before, one who had not crested the 50k threshold before. I tend to think that, despite the lack of quantitative evidence, that the results support in a qualitative form, that tanking does work if you work at it.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    ryakidrys wrote: »
    The concept of tanking has many definitions, and may be part of your misunderstanding about tanking.
    I've held aggro for a player doing 64k in ISA before, one who had not crested the 50k threshold before. I tend to think that, despite the lack of quantitative evidence, that the results support in a qualitative form, that tanking does work if you work at it.

    I've probably got 100+log files detailing that, if anyone would care to see them.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

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  • dakotadahotnessdakotadahotness Member Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    4mins. huh?

    That's roughly 100k-250k dps combined, assuming it was actually 4mins.

    Now, 1% of that is = 1k-2.5k dps.

    If you couldn't achieve even this small amount, than odds are you truly deserved the penalty!

    Even in such a powerful group, you should have been able to pull even that small amount of weight.

    So sorry, I don't buy the story, not one bit.

    I have been in Q's with players that were able to blow up things before I could get a shot off, so...
    I can see this happening. I got one on a real *laggggy day where I could not move, but that's a completely different issue.

    *note: For the spelling TRIBBLE that spelling was intentional, but if you are a grammar TRIBBLE, by all means have at me.;)
  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    nabreeki wrote: »
    The MMO Gold Standard has been dead for quite some time in this game. While there have been hold outs (people so disconnected from reality that they think "tanking" is still a viable play mode), if you had been playing this game and paying attention since the beginning, this should have been common knowledge.

    I'm going to have to conclude that you were, in fact, AFKing. I think I remember you from an STF, CSA, I believe, where you veered off to the left, only popping in to engage the enemy sporadically. A pass here or there, but mostly happy sitting and letting your teammates do the heavy lifting. I see old habits die hard. Good luck to you.

    You will note that I haven't played in a long time and I've been very up-front about this. I really don't know how long, but I basically just popped in to check out the Delta Recruit stuff (the last time I played much was when the Temporal lock boxes were in play). I don't disagree with you at all in the analysis, I'm just explaining my evidently errant mindset and what is driving it. Not trying to make excuses.

    As to CSA, that wasn't me. ISA is the only advanced I've played in year(s), and after the first run I halted all further forward movement and went back to the drawing board. I've run it once since as a "proof of concept" with the new ship. The character name is N'Ton, and I was flying a D'Deridex-U in veteran colors the first time, and the Baratan Command battlecruiser the second time.

    I don't know why you're so adamant as to sticking me with the AFK label, but if that makes you happy, please do so. I know what's true - I'm 52 and I have no need to lie to anyone regarding a video game. I served time in combat zones, and to be honest, after having dodged bullets and mortar rounds in real life, game drama is a pretty low anguish level for me.

    Or, hit me up on Skype (ask me in PM for the name) and get to know me for real (I'll be honest though - Skype isn't something I use all that much).
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  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yeah Level x in a DD in an advanced equals FAIL. Seriously Level x's in advanced don't cut it uprate them to 12's at the very least. Bet they were all greens on top of it. And if you as you claim did all the rep you wouldn't have level x's you would have the dilth or Ec to either buy them or upgrde them. I don't buy your excuse one bit. Stick to norms until you get 12's and not greens either.
  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    Yeah Level x in a DD in an advanced equals FAIL. Seriously Level x's in advanced don't cut it uprate them to 12's at the very least. Bet they were all greens on top of it. And if you as you claim did all the rep you wouldn't have level x's you would have the dilth or Ec to either buy them or upgrde them. I don't buy your excuse one bit. Stick to norms until you get 12's and not greens either.
    Caveat up front: I don't remember the EXACTS. After the run I went into panic mode, bought the T6 and went more DPS-focused. Character build is still the same though.

    I was using one or two X, two XII and the rest were XI. All purples - I opened a LOT of temporal lock boxes trying to get the Welles timeship (got it) and had something like 36-ish of the random Polaron weapons boxes on hand (the current bird is loaded with dual heavy XIIs from the same boxes).

    My build wasn't optimized for DPS to be certain. I had most support going to survivability, and I mis-spent the Tier 1 science points (but didn't really care about that as I haven't fully decided what I want to do Science-wise). Specialization was Intel with Pilot second, I had opened up two or three abilities in that chain.

    I don't understand DOFFs on active duty yet, so that was clearly wrong.

    I have an x-ray appt soon, but I'll try to link screenshots with everything later this afternoon.
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  • shifter777shifter777 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Every now and then I get a low Mark reward for like 13 marks. I almost always get 45-50 marks. Sometimes end up with 100-125 marks. Guess it depends on who you get grouped with. No biggie and only 1 STF with a low mark reward surely doesn't warrant a whole post. I have parsed more DPS then everyone else in ISA and died once and came out with only 13 marks. No biggie, run another 30 mins. later and get the max marks. I don't even usually look anymore on most of my characters but with the new Delta Recruit its hard not to look.
  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Agreed.

    Originally I was worried this was going to be the experience in EVERY STF, and that's what had me ticked off. How am I supposed to earn the rewards I need to upgrade if I'm going to get AFK'd for nothing.

    All that being said, I think we've clubbed this seal to mush and I'm moving on.

    I *did* promise pictures, and took about 7 lovely screenshots, but opened my folder and remembered that screenshots automatically blank out the UI. :eek:
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  • sammyspet1sammyspet1 Member Posts: 212 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Agreed.

    Originally I was worried this was going to be the experience in EVERY STF, and that's what had me ticked off. How am I supposed to earn the rewards I need to upgrade if I'm going to get AFK'd for nothing.

    All that being said, I think we've clubbed this seal to mush and I'm moving on.

    I *did* promise pictures, and took about 7 lovely screenshots, but opened my folder and remembered that screenshots automatically blank out the UI. :eek:


    oh tell the truth, thats ESD and you was caught out by the AFK pen..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Agreed.

    Originally I was worried this was going to be the experience in EVERY STF, and that's what had me ticked off. How am I supposed to earn the rewards I need to upgrade if I'm going to get AFK'd for nothing.

    All that being said, I think we've clubbed this seal to mush and I'm moving on.

    I *did* promise pictures, and took about 7 lovely screenshots, but opened my folder and remembered that screenshots automatically blank out the UI. :eek:
    you can take screenshots with the UI in place; just use /screenshot_ui or /screenshot_ui_jpg if you want them in jpeg format instead of tga for whatever reason
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  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Shadowfang, you are the Person! Thanks!

    I'm just going to post one link - you can scroll the other images as you see fit. The missing rear weapon was a mine layer - it was NOT purple, I think it was a Rare X - I already sold that thing off. You'll also note the core systems (engines, shields, etc) are nothing to write home about.

    But seriously, I think this has run its course. I don't know if I got in an uber team, if the STF failed (in 4 minutes?) or what. Response email from ta GM stated it wasn't anything I did, so I'm just going to chalk it up to an anomaly that I will never get an answer to. I've parked this character and started another one that I can focus on being more competitive from the start. I do have a lot to learn - back when I played last there was just synergy between skills build, consoles, ship gear and crew skills. Now there's command consoles, duty officers, specializations and a lot more stuff happening in tha back that I don't understand yet.
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  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Finally! a look at your BO layout and gear.

    I don't see your active duty roster setup, but here is something to shoot for with the DD....

    Ensign Tac: TT1
    LCDR Tac: BFAW1, BFAW2, APB3
    Ensign Eng: ET1
    CDR Eng: ET1, EPTS2, EPTW3, A2SIF3/ DEM3
    LCDR Sci: HE1, HE2, ST3

    Active duty space roster:
    2 purple damage control engineers to reduce EPTx cooldowns
    2 Conn officers (1 each purple and blue minimum) that reduce tac team cooldowns
    1 Development lab scientist to reduce science team cooldowns

    EPTW3 can be trained by an engineer captain with weapon system performance with 6 skill points.
    Aux to SIF 3 can be trained by a BO you pick up from missions or from the exchange.
    Use DEM3 if you want a little more DPS than tank.

    As for weapons, all beams should be sufficient.

    Tac consoles, put only consoles that boost weapon damage in tac slots. All polaron phase modulators for polaron weapons, no other stuff.
    No more than 2 armor consoles in engineering, neutronium for most flexibility.

    When you can get the omega rep going, get the assimilated module and the cutting beam quickly. It's among the best tier 1 and 2 rep gear to get and is possibly the easier set to start with.
    That should help you out.
  • shifter777shifter777 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Shadowfang, you are the Person! Thanks!

    I'm just going to post one link - you can scroll the other images as you see fit. The missing rear weapon was a mine layer - it was NOT purple, I think it was a Rare X - I already sold that thing off. You'll also note the core systems (engines, shields, etc) are nothing to write home about.

    But seriously, I think this has run its course. I don't know if I got in an uber team, if the STF failed (in 4 minutes?) or what. Response email from ta GM stated it wasn't anything I did, so I'm just going to chalk it up to an anomaly that I will never get an answer to. I've parked this character and started another one that I can focus on being more competitive from the start. I do have a lot to learn - back when I played last there was just synergy between skills build, consoles, ship gear and crew skills. Now there's command consoles, duty officers, specializations and a lot more stuff happening in tha back that I don't understand yet.

    Filling your Tactical Console Slots with anything but Consoles that specifically enhance your polaron beams is a big mistake. You surely were out DPS'd. I'm pretty sure with that setup you only contributed less then 1% of the total damage in a 4min STF. That being said, you should prolly watch the you tube videos created by Ryan_STO. The title of these are called "Lets Talk Things Over." These videos are very lengthy. So, you dont have to watch them all at once. I promise if you watch these videos and implement the skills in the tree and get the correct Tactical consoles for your weapons that you will be very pleased with the outcome. The rest of what Ryan talks about may take you a bit more time to achieve but pays of with each step you can implement. Lets just say with a few of these implemented on Fed character I went from 4k DPS to almost 12k and my Romulan character went from 8k to 19k DPS. The kicker is that I havent even implemented everything Ryan had to school me on. Hit up the DPS League Channel forum. This is where I got the link to Videos and a combat log recorder to check how I'm doing DPS wise. I;m not in any way saying you have to do exactly everything that Ryan_STO does but if you implement some basic stuff and put your own taste into it. You will be doing 10k DPS in no time and having loads of fun doing it. Hope this helps.
  • ghostravynghostravyn Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ryakidrys wrote: »
    Finally! a look at your BO layout and gear.

    I don't see your active duty roster setup, but here is something to shoot for with the DD....

    Yeah. I had no idea what to do with the DOFFs. I had no idea they did anything other than Assignments.

    Ensign Tac: TT1
    LCDR Tac: BFAW1, BFAW2, APB3
    Ensign Eng: ET1
    CDR Eng: ET1, EPTS2, EPTW3, A2SIF3/ DEM3
    LCDR Sci: HE1, HE2, ST3

    Active duty space roster:
    2 purple damage control engineers to reduce EPTx cooldowns
    2 Conn officers (1 each purple and blue minimum) that reduce tac team cooldowns
    1 Development lab scientist to reduce science team cooldowns

    EPTW3 can be trained by an engineer captain with weapon system performance with 6 skill points.
    Aux to SIF 3 can be trained by a BO you pick up from missions or from the exchange.
    Use DEM3 if you want a little more DPS than tank.

    As for weapons, all beams should be sufficient.

    Are you saying no torps at all? Beams in all 8 slots? I can do that ...

    Tac consoles, put only consoles that boost weapon damage in tac slots. All polaron phase modulators for polaron weapons, no other stuff.
    No more than 2 armor consoles in engineering, neutronium for most flexibility.

    When you can get the omega rep going, get the assimilated module and the cutting beam quickly. It's among the best tier 1 and 2 rep gear to get and is possibly the easier set to start with.
    That should help you out.
    Really appreciate your insight. And I am sorry it took a while to get these up; during the week my schedule is pretty busy.
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  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Hurray for players who have "aweomesauced" their builds, but there is no way I should incur an AFK penalty while being fully active in an Advanced STF.

    The penalties prevent me from earning full rewards even though I was fully active in the event. I can't advance my own builds if I can't earn the rewards.

    I fully support anti-AFK policies, but the system you have in place now penalizes me for not being fully tuned while attempting awards to become fully tuned.

    EDIT: Oh look! I even earned a BAN from being able to play public games! NICE! Lets see where the heck the Customer Service phone line is located at ...

    To get an afk penalty you need to have done under 1% of total damage... so what were you doing?
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    To get an afk penalty you need to have done under 1% of total damage... so what were you doing?

    I think we have finished discussing this a long time ago. Now we help him preventing this from happening again.

    As for the question about weapons: Torp are currently limiting dps, except in some very specialized setups.
  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    Really appreciate your insight. And I am sorry it took a while to get these up; during the week my schedule is pretty busy.

    As for having no idea what to do with DOFFs, I was there with ya before. I made it to lvl 50, was doing STFs and my fleetmates dropped all kinds of bombshells on me. My skills were horrible, had rainbow beam setup, no DOFFs in the active duty roster. Yeh, I understand.

    As for all beams, yes, you can do all beams. EPTW helps with power levels some.

    As for using a projectile weapon fore and aft, the turn rate on the DD is too slow to make best use of projectile weapons, not that you couldn't make it work, but the ships turn rate would have you miss out on full broadsiding with beam arrays when firing torpedos, which further reduces damage output.
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